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To Cheryl - h0p had toxoplasmosis too: Was Scarlett



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 23rd 04, 09:19 PM
Dee
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Default To Cheryl - h0p had toxoplasmosis too: Was Scarlett

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004, Cheryl wrote:


I realize I haven't posted any updates, but I don't have much to
tell. She went back to TED today and they took a bunch (!) of blood
to test her for various things. FIV/FLV was one I was going to have
done again anyway, but they're also testing for toxoplasmosis, and
exposure to the feline coronavirus because 2 vets now have said the
letters FIP. Good news I guess is that vet gave us the antibiotic for
toxo (an antirobe) to start on because she thinks its probable. She's
still sleeping an awful lot, but has a good appetite, and even gained
a little more weight since Saturday (I'm afraid maybe being at work
away from home 11 hours a day might be making her undernourished
because I don't think she's eating the dry food I leave for between
meals) Her temp was down today and her eyes look a little better
since they aren't as red, but she still squints like they're
sensitive to light. No more seisure-like activity since the first on
Saturday.



Cheryl,

I'm really sorry to hear about Scarlett. The origin of h0p's problems was
apparently toxoplasmosis too. I had no idea he was ill until he had an
extremely violent seizure in the middle of the night. h0p has other
problems - heart murmer, IBD, and a failing liver, and so he went through
alot of testing. He was initially put on phenobarbital for his seizures
which worked well for about 2 years. He suddenly became very ill and
depressed to the point where his ver suggested that I have him put down.
I took him to see Dr. Deena Tiches at the VCA Veterinary Referral
Associates in Gaithersburg. Both the liver problems and the depression
were attributed to the phenobarbital, and she switched him to a liquid
medication called Neurontin which I get from The Professional Arts
Pharmacy in Baltimore. I wish you and Scarlett the best of luck, I'd like
to know how things turn out or if you have any pointers that might help
the h0p.

This year Misty had to go to RadioCat for hyperthyroidism treatment,
George had another mast cell tumor removed, we lost little Ceili to
cancer, and we got a new kitten named Ivy - and so life goes on. Happy
Holidays to you and yours.


Dee

  #2  
Old December 24th 04, 08:07 AM
Marina
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Default

Dee wrote:
This year Misty had to go to RadioCat for hyperthyroidism treatment,
George had another mast cell tumor removed, we lost little Ceili to
cancer, and we got a new kitten named Ivy - and so life goes on. Happy
Holidays to you and yours.


So sorry about your loss and all the kitty illness. We'll be purring for
a better year 2005 for h0p and the gang.

--
Marina, Frank and Nikki
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki
  #3  
Old December 24th 04, 08:09 AM
Marina
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Cheryl wrote:

Scarlett has only had the one episode that I
know of, and I got her test results back today and all of the kitty
nasties came up negative, so no toxo, or worse, for her thank God.


Thank goodness! Yay Scarlett, and may she continue to eat, grow and be a
hoolikitten!


--
Marina, Frank and Nikki
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki
  #4  
Old December 25th 04, 04:21 AM
Christine Burel
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"Marina" wrote in message
...
Cheryl wrote:

Scarlett has only had the one episode that I
know of, and I got her test results back today and all of the kitty
nasties came up negative, so no toxo, or worse, for her thank God.


Thank goodness! Yay Scarlett, and may she continue to eat, grow and be a
hoolikitten!


--
Marina, Frank and Nikki
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki


Also, very glad to hear this, Cheryl.
Christine


  #5  
Old December 27th 04, 07:23 AM
Dee
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On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Cheryl wrote:

Dee, I hadn't seen anything about h0p in so long, I actually feared
the worst. I'm sorry he's still having problems and I hope Dr
Tiches can help him. Scarlett has only had the one episode that I
know of, and I got her test results back today and all of the kitty
nasties came up negative, so no toxo, or worse, for her thank God.


I'm so glad to hear it Cheryl. I wanted to let you know about the
medication that h0p was taking because it's apparently fairly new to treat
animals with neurontin and it's helped him quite a bit. If Scarlett
should continue to have seizures (and I know how scary it is) it might be
something to keep in mind. h0p had a difficult year including an
accidental burn, but he's proved to be a little miracle. He's slowed down
alot and is obviously not in top form, but he'll celebrate his twelveth
birthday in six days, and there was a time we never thought we'd see that.

Oh! I mentioned, Misty, h0p, George, Ceili, and Ivy, but didn't mention
Sam so I felt bad at leaving him out! He's as big and handsome, healthy
and happy as ever Wishing you, and all of you, a very happy new year.


http://www.wam.umd.edu/~powersd/group2.html -- late last year
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~powersd/Ivy.jpg -- Little Ivy

new pics soon!

Dee

  #6  
Old December 27th 04, 07:27 PM
Howard Berkowitz
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Default

In article ,
Dee wrote:

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Cheryl wrote:

Dee, I hadn't seen anything about h0p in so long, I actually feared
the worst. I'm sorry he's still having problems and I hope Dr
Tiches can help him. Scarlett has only had the one episode that I
know of, and I got her test results back today and all of the kitty
nasties came up negative, so no toxo, or worse, for her thank God.


I'm so glad to hear it Cheryl. I wanted to let you know about the
medication that h0p was taking because it's apparently fairly new to treat
animals with neurontin and it's helped him quite a bit. If Scarlett
should continue to have seizures (and I know how scary it is) it might be
something to keep in mind. h0p had a difficult year including an
accidental burn, but he's proved to be a little miracle. He's slowed down
alot and is obviously not in top form, but he'll celebrate his twelveth
birthday in six days, and there was a time we never thought we'd see that.


Neurontin (generic name gabapentin) isn't quite a major breakthrough
drug, as in a completely new therapeutic class, but it's an important
improvement both for preventing convulsion and treating pain from nerve
damage. In the present climate of problems in reporting side effects, I
thought I might add one that's been observed by several human physicians
I know, but isn't mentioned in the product literature.

I have no way of knowing if this will occur in cats, but it appears to
cause weight gain in a fair number of humans. In some of these cases,
that may even be beneficial, to a patient that's debilitated from
convulsions or intractable nerve pain. Up to very recently, it was the
best thing we had for diabetic neuropathic pain, although a new and
specific agent has just been approved for that indication. Research I'm
tracking indicate that it's reasonably likely that several new classes
of pain management drugs will be reaching approval soon, but I have no
idea if they can be used in cats.
  #7  
Old December 27th 04, 09:15 PM
CatNipped
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...

Neurontin (generic name gabapentin) isn't quite a major breakthrough
drug, as in a completely new therapeutic class, but it's an important
improvement both for preventing convulsion and treating pain from nerve
damage. In the present climate of problems in reporting side effects, I
thought I might add one that's been observed by several human physicians
I know, but isn't mentioned in the product literature.

I have no way of knowing if this will occur in cats, but it appears to
cause weight gain in a fair number of humans. In some of these cases,
that may even be beneficial, to a patient that's debilitated from
convulsions or intractable nerve pain. Up to very recently, it was the
best thing we had for diabetic neuropathic pain, although a new and
specific agent has just been approved for that indication. Research I'm
tracking indicate that it's reasonably likely that several new classes
of pain management drugs will be reaching approval soon, but I have no
idea if they can be used in cats.


Please be careful and do a lot of research before using Neurontin. Pfizer
has promoted this drug for at least 11 "off-label" medical conditions,
including pain management (pain management is a multi-billion dollar
market). Here's a link that tells more about their unethical practices:
http://www.citizen.org/ELETTER/ARTICLES/neurontin.htm

From the article:

"A senior marketing executive at Parke-Davis was quoted during a
teleconference as saying to medical liaisons:

Pain management, now that's money. Monotherapy, that's money. We don't want
to share these patients with everybody, we want them on Neurontin only. We
want their whole drug budget, not a quarter, not half, the whole
thing....That's where we need to be holding their hand and whispering in
their ear: 'Neurontin for pain, Neurontin for monotherapy, Neurontin for
everything' ... I don't want to hear that safety crap either, have you tried
Neurontin, every one of you should take one just to see there is nothing
[that the drug is safe], it's a great drug."

It was prescribed to me for my Fibromyalgia and when I had to quit taking it
the withdrawal was devastating - including nausea, feeling electrical
shock-like tingling all over my body, headache, dizziness, swelling limbs,
black-out episodes (quite scary when driving), trembling, feeling increased
pain, and panic attacks.

Hugs,

CatNipped


  #8  
Old December 27th 04, 10:40 PM
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



CatNipped wrote:

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...


Neurontin (generic name gabapentin) isn't quite a major breakthrough
drug, as in a completely new therapeutic class, but it's an important
improvement both for preventing convulsion and treating pain from nerve
damage. In the present climate of problems in reporting side effects, I
thought I might add one that's been observed by several human physicians
I know, but isn't mentioned in the product literature.

I have no way of knowing if this will occur in cats, but it appears to
cause weight gain in a fair number of humans. In some of these cases,
that may even be beneficial, to a patient that's debilitated from
convulsions or intractable nerve pain. Up to very recently, it was the
best thing we had for diabetic neuropathic pain, although a new and
specific agent has just been approved for that indication. Research I'm
tracking indicate that it's reasonably likely that several new classes
of pain management drugs will be reaching approval soon, but I have no
idea if they can be used in cats.



Please be careful and do a lot of research before using Neurontin. Pfizer
has promoted this drug for at least 11 "off-label" medical conditions,
including pain management (pain management is a multi-billion dollar
market). Here's a link that tells more about their unethical practices:
http://www.citizen.org/ELETTER/ARTICLES/neurontin.htm

From the article:

"A senior marketing executive at Parke-Davis was quoted during a
teleconference as saying to medical liaisons:

Pain management, now that's money. Monotherapy, that's money. We don't want
to share these patients with everybody, we want them on Neurontin only. We
want their whole drug budget, not a quarter, not half, the whole
thing....That's where we need to be holding their hand and whispering in
their ear: 'Neurontin for pain, Neurontin for monotherapy, Neurontin for
everything' ... I don't want to hear that safety crap either, have you tried
Neurontin, every one of you should take one just to see there is nothing
[that the drug is safe], it's a great drug."

It was prescribed to me for my Fibromyalgia and when I had to quit taking it
the withdrawal was devastating - including nausea, feeling electrical
shock-like tingling all over my body, headache, dizziness, swelling limbs,
black-out episodes (quite scary when driving), trembling, feeling increased
pain, and panic attacks.


Thanks for the warnings, guys! My doctor prescribed this
because I'd been complaining of increasing numbness in my
feet and lower legs (my previous doctor called it
"non-diabetic neuropathy", and told me there was no
effective treatment). I was already a bit skeptical when
the literature the pharmacist gave me described it as a
medication used for eplileptic seizures, although I thought
I'd give it the benefit of the doubt - until I noticed the
label on the bottle which cautioned me to "carry or wear
medical identification stating you are taking this
medicine". I'll keep the numbness, thanks! Fortunately,
I'd only taken three one-a-day doses, so experienced no
side-effects. (I see where I and my new doctor must have a
little talk - my former doctor understood that I will not
take ANY medication until I have been convinced it is truly
necessary!)

  #9  
Old December 27th 04, 10:55 PM
Howard Berkowitz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , "CatNipped"
wrote:

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...

Neurontin (generic name gabapentin) isn't quite a major breakthrough
drug, as in a completely new therapeutic class, but it's an important
improvement both for preventing convulsion and treating pain from nerve
damage. In the present climate of problems in reporting side effects,
I
thought I might add one that's been observed by several human
physicians
I know, but isn't mentioned in the product literature.

I have no way of knowing if this will occur in cats, but it appears to
cause weight gain in a fair number of humans. In some of these cases,
that may even be beneficial, to a patient that's debilitated from
convulsions or intractable nerve pain. Up to very recently, it was the
best thing we had for diabetic neuropathic pain, although a new and
specific agent has just been approved for that indication. Research
I'm
tracking indicate that it's reasonably likely that several new classes
of pain management drugs will be reaching approval soon, but I have no
idea if they can be used in cats.


Please be careful and do a lot of research before using Neurontin.
Pfizer
has promoted this drug for at least 11 "off-label" medical conditions,
including pain management (pain management is a multi-billion dollar
market). Here's a link that tells more about their unethical practices:
http://www.citizen.org/ELETTER/ARTICLES/neurontin.htm


I have no financial or personal interest in Pfizer. I do, however, have
an appreciable background in the scientific basis of pain management,
and have seen appreciable independent research, as well as specific
clinical applications, where gabapentin gave relief for neurogenic pain
that could not be relieved by other drugs.

From the article:

"A senior marketing executive at Parke-Davis was quoted during a
teleconference as saying to medical liaisons:

Pain management, now that's money. Monotherapy, that's money. We don't
want
to share these patients with everybody, we want them on Neurontin only.
We
want their whole drug budget, not a quarter, not half, the whole
thing....That's where we need to be holding their hand and whispering in
their ear: 'Neurontin for pain, Neurontin for monotherapy, Neurontin for
everything' ... I don't want to hear that safety crap either, have you
tried
Neurontin, every one of you should take one just to see there is nothing
[that the drug is safe], it's a great drug."


The above indeed is crap. Nevertheless, see comments below.

It was prescribed to me for my Fibromyalgia and when I had to quit taking
it
the withdrawal was devastating - including nausea, feeling electrical
shock-like tingling all over my body, headache, dizziness, swelling
limbs,
black-out episodes (quite scary when driving), trembling, feeling
increased
pain, and panic attacks.


Gabapentin, as do other drugs, including those with multiple approved
applications, are of the family of anticonvulsants. Some of their modes
of action involve increasing the action potential (i.e., triggering
level) of various peripheral and central nerves.

Regardless of what the Pfizer marketdroid said, there are many extremely
legitimate indications, on and off label, for the several classes of
anticonvulsants. Valproate and carbemazepine may well be more effective
and safer than lithium for hypomanic states and some other mood
disorders. Carbemazepine was the first treatment for tic douloreaux,
often described as the worst pain syndrome known, that did not involve
destroying the trigeminal nerve, a key facial nerve.

I would find it extremely unlikely that ANY reputable pharmacology
textbook or medical school course would EVER recommend quitting an
anticonvulsant that the patient has been taking for any appreciable
time. Especially when there is a history of a convulsive disorder, but
even when the drug has been prescribed for other purposes, seizures are
not at all uncommon.

The reactions describe could very well have taken place had you suddenly
stopped, after therapy of any duration, any anticonvulsant, be it
phenytoin, carbemazepine, valproate, phenobarbital, etc. Indeed, when
there is a medical necessity to stop drugs of this class,
hospitalization is frequently recommended (especially with
barbiturates). Severe physical withdrawal is less likely with
benzdiazepine anticonvulsants such as clonazepam -- which has other
valid applications, some on and off label. I take it myself, and have
been terrified at the possible reactions on running out. While I haven't
had any severe reactions, I absolutely would not drive, for example, if
I had missed several doses.

Having lost my insurance, I fully appreciate the problems that an
expensive drug can present. While some drug warnings are more to protect
the manufacturer, this is a class of drugs where the warning not to stop
without medical supervision is not an exaggeration.

There is also no generally accepted treatment for fibromyalgia, and a
quite competent rheumatologist or neurologist is quite likely to try an
assortment of drugs (and nonpharmacologic treatments) on a mostly trial
and error basis. There really is no alternative to such an approach.

In other words, it's not all evil drug companies.
  #10  
Old December 27th 04, 11:58 PM
Howard Berkowitz
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article , wrote:

Thanks for the warnings, guys! My doctor prescribed this
because I'd been complaining of increasing numbness in my
feet and lower legs (my previous doctor called it
"non-diabetic neuropathy", and told me there was no
effective treatment). I was already a bit skeptical when
the literature the pharmacist gave me described it as a
medication used for eplileptic seizures, although I thought
I'd give it the benefit of the doubt - until I noticed the
label on the bottle which cautioned me to "carry or wear
medical identification stating you are taking this
medicine". I'll keep the numbness, thanks! Fortunately,
I'd only taken three one-a-day doses, so experienced no
side-effects. (I see where I and my new doctor must have a
little talk - my former doctor understood that I will not
take ANY medication until I have been convinced it is truly
necessary!)


Your doctor troubles me somewhat. Numbness in legs/feet and arms/hands
is not something that should simply be given symptomatic treatment. If
there's no other explanation, yes, an anticonvulsant would be a
reasonable empirical treatment.

If a primary practitioner -- and I don't know your doctor's background
-- can't come up with a good explanation, I would want a referral to a
neurologist, as the most likely practitioner to figure it out. I
wouldn't accept "non-diabetic neuropathy" without a full workup; I don't
think that's even an accepteble diagnostic code in the International
Classification of Diseases (ICD).

An adequate workup would include the type of specialized physical
examination that neurologists tend to do, quite likely nerve conduction
studies and electromyography, general blood testing plus B vitamin
levels and assorted indicators of inflammation, and possibly imaging
such as ultrasound. The latter would be especially important if there
were any question about the blood circulation in your legs. I'd want to
know how diabetes was ruled out, minimally with a hemoglobin A1C test
and possible a glucose tolerance test.

Deficiency, or abnormal absorption, of B vitamins can cause symptoms
like this. Unfortunately, while it's generally impossible to overdose on
B vitamins, this isn't true of vitamin B6 (pyridoxine). Both B6
deficiency and overdose can cause peripheral neuropathy.
 




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