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#21
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Cat Pregnancy Questions?
"Skye" wrote in message ps.com : : On Aug 14, 7:57 pm, "William Graham" : : wrote: : : : : : With the exception of a few trolls, everyone here has : : : one thing in common....We all love cats and hate to : : : see anything bad happen to them. : : : : Apparently, that's not entirely true. There are : : evidently some in here who think : : it's best to just let stray cats and dogs starve. THAT : : can't be good. : : : : : Anytime you ask strangers for an opinion, : : : : which I *didn't* Actually you did, by posting here. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with what's been posted, but the simple act of posting a message on a newsgroup implies that you want replies. These replies will invariably be people's opinions. Whether or not they are facts is a different matter entirely. Ivor |
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Cat Pregnancy Questions?
On 15 Aug, 13:52, "Wendy" wrote:
"Skye" wrote in message s.com... On Aug 14, 9:43 am, "cindys" wrote: "Skye" wrote: 1. Generally speaking, how old can a queen be and still be going into heat and producing offspring? In other words, please God, is there such a thing as feline menopause??? :-/ Yes. It's called a "spay." I'm glad your life is so well-ordered and nothing ever gets out of your control once in a while. However, please realize that's not the case with everyone in the world, mkay? The older cat is a feral cat who I've been feeding for the last two years, but has hung around this neighborhood for at least 10. I've somehow grown attached, even though she is wild. She will not come to me nor allow me to so much as touch her. You tell me how to get her to the vet, Cindy S., ok? You buy or borrow (rescue groups and shelters sometimes lend traps - ask them) a humane trap. If you've been feeding this cat anyway it should be quite easy to trap her. Check with the rescue groups for recommendations for low-cost spay neuter locations where they will do feral cats. Make an appointment. The day of or the night before the appointment, put some good smelly wet food in the back of the trap and set it shortly before the time that the cat usually shows up to eat. Then wait in an out of sight but not out of hearing place for the unique sound of a trap tripping. Cover trap with a large towel and take the cat in the trap to the vet for her spay. If it's the night before, place a large plastic bag on the floor of a garage or similar place. Put a thick layer of newspaper on the plastic bag and then set the trap on them. The cat will be fine in a covered trap overnight. Last summer, some of the neighbors tried to get rid of her. They did manage to catch her kittens and most of them were put to sleep. This summer, we've managed to get the kittens before they were found, but we had to pull off commando-type raids under cat-hating neighbors porches to do it. She seems to be safe and stays under the radar all the rest of the year. I simply wondered how many more summers I could look forward to worrying about this. Or do you just think I should stop feeding her? I mean, what gives with your attitude??? If you aren't willing to get her spayed, you are doing more harm than good by feeding her. You are keeping her healthy enough to continue reproducing kittens when there are already too many kittens to ever possibly home. You basically are facilitating the birth of kittens so that they or others like them will have to be put to death. I know people mean well when they start feeding strays but the truth is that it's better not to and just let nature take it's course unless you're willing to commit to doing it right and spay/neuter the cat. 2. I've got another younger cat, first time queen, shows all the symptoms of pregnancy - more than a month along. However, every few days, she's spotting blood from the vulva. Not much though, and otherwise she acts fine. Is this normal, or should I be contacting the vet? You should be contacting the vet about having her spayed. Why are you allowing your cats to breed? This cat is my indoor, well-cared-for, beautiful, loved cat. Yes, I wanted her to have kittens. OMG! I'm guilty! Shoot me, but not the cat! Seriously, I'm not sure since 9/11/2001, but I THINK America is still free enough that if you want your cat to breed, you are allowed to do so. Unless there's some law I'm not aware of (under Homeland Security, maybe?). I don't even think you have to ask permission from, well, ANYBODY. Lol. Well, thank you for your, um, help and info, Cindy S. I can assure you, the world is a much safer and better place. You can sleep well tonight. Skye People tend to get a little bent out of shape with people who are willfully adding to the cat over-population problem. I volunteer for a cat rescue group. We do adoptions from a Pet Smart store on Saturdays. Last weekend we had a man bring us a kitten who was obviously on death's door. It appeared to have injested some type of poison and was having convultions. It was beyond helping so one of our volunteers took the kitten to the local SPCA to get it euthanized. When she arrived there the person at the shelter told her they couldn't help us because they didn't have room. Our volunteer told them that we weren't asking them to take the cat and house it but to put it out of it's misery. The shelter person again said they didn't have room. When it became obvious that they were miscommunicating the shelter person clarified that they didn't have any room in their FREEZER where they keep the euthanized animals until they can be cremated. She said that they couldn't fit a hampster in the freezer if they had to. THAT'S how many unwanted animals there are out there. And THAT'S why people tend to get a little short with someone who is exacerbating the problem. W- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You buy or borrow (rescue groups and shelters sometimes lend traps - ask them) a humane trap. If you've been feeding this cat anyway it should be quite easy to trap her. Check with the rescue groups for recommendations for low-cost spay neuter locations where they will do feral cats. Make an appointment. The day of or the night before the appointment, put some good smelly wet food in the back of the trap and set it shortly before the time that the cat usually shows up to eat. Then wait in an out of sight but not out of hearing place for the unique sound of a trap tripping. Cover trap with a large towel and take the cat in the trap to the vet for her spay. If it's the night before, place a large plastic bag on the floor of a garage or similar place. Put a thick layer of newspaper on the plastic bag and then set the trap on them. The cat will be fine in a covered trap overnight. Yes, I found that heating the food up attracted them straight to to the bowl because their sense of smell is so superior to our own. I couldn't find any society that was willing to lend me a trap, but I did find a private american citizen on a USAF base that was willing to lend me one. I was no expert on trapping cats, believe me- In fact, I had never tried trapping a cat before, but with advice from Phil, I managed to catch Lucy(fur!!) first time, so please @ least have the confidence to try it out? The vet was good enough to come out to us, & treated her immediate needs, & we took her in the following day to have her spayed. Lucy(fur!) was the only one that was so shy that we simply couldn't catch her though. The rest, we were able to entice with food alone. If you aren't willing to get her spayed, you are doing more harm than good by feeding her. You are keeping her healthy enough to continue reproducing kittens when there are already too many kittens to ever possibly home. You basically are facilitating the birth of kittens so that they or others like them will have to be put to death. I know people mean well when they start feeding strays but the truth is that it's better not to and just let nature take it's course unless you're willing to commit to doing it right and spay/neuter the cat. I wonder if you have a society in the USA that will pay towards the cost of spaying a cat? In the UK we have a society called the Cat Protection League, & their main objective, is to spay, neuter & advise on how to catch cats that need fixing. They also rescue cats too, but are totally reliant on volunteers who are willing to help for nothing. If you do, these might be the best people to contact? Over here, they are willing to pay half the cost towards spay or neuter fee's, which is very helpful if you face the charge personally for a cat that you don't own & intend to release.I was wondering if you have any similar programs in the USA that you can go to if you need help like this? People tend to get a little bent out of shape with people who are willfully adding to the cat over-population problem. I volunteer for a cat rescue group. We do adoptions from a Pet Smart store on Saturdays. Last weekend we had a man bring us a kitten who was obviously on death's door. It appeared to have injested some type of poison and was having convultions. It was beyond helping so one of our volunteers took the kitten to the local SPCA to get it euthanized. When she arrived there the person at the shelter told her they couldn't help us because they didn't have room. Our volunteer told them that we weren't asking them to take the cat and house it but to put it out of it's misery. The shelter person again said they didn't have room. When it became obvious that they were miscommunicating the shelter person clarified that they didn't have any room in their FREEZER where they keep the euthanized animals until they can be cremated. She said that they couldn't fit a hampster in the freezer if they had to. THAT'S how many unwanted animals there are out there. And THAT'S why people tend to get a little short with someone who is exacerbating the problem. OMG Wendy, I have never heard such a sad story in my entitre life. I used to wonder why people got so out of shape when they heard of our community bowl, but having heard this story, I now understand why. Our community bowl has two objectives. The first was to stop them starving, & the second was to see that they were fixed. I end up paying around $30 for a male, & $40 for a female. It's not a huge amount of money to find, & well worth the hassle of catching them. It is also worth having a word with your regular vet, to see if they are willing to do cheaper rates if you take more than say, one a month to them too. I knew that things were bad in the USA regarding feral & unwanted cats, but I had no idea exactly how bad. I hope that story serves as a reminder to others as to why it is so important to get them spayed & neutered. I have to say that I am very shocked to hear your story. That is absolutely horrific!! I can only assume that we lead very sheltered lives in the UK, or the problem is not yet quite at crisis point. Thank you for sharing this story with us. Sheelagh "o" ( Nice to see you too;o) |
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Cat Pregnancy Questions?
"Skye" wrote in message ps.com... On Aug 14, 7:57 pm, "William Graham" wrote: With the exception of a few trolls, everyone here has one thing in common....We all love cats and hate to see anything bad happen to them. Apparently, that's not entirely true. There are evidently some in here who think it's best to just let stray cats and dogs starve. THAT can't be good. Anytime you ask strangers for an opinion, which I *didn't* you are risking getting bad advice.....the question I have is: Why did you post here in the first place? For information: 1. To find out if there is an age at which a female cat might stop breeding naturally. 2. To find out if my pregnant cat was medically in danger. To my knowledge, only 1 person attempted to specifically answered both questions. The rest is just rabid, nutty farting in the wind to me - with the exception of your advice of trapping the older cat. When I was having trouble with my car, I posted my problem to some car newsgroups asking for information. I received 12 responses packed full of info so that I was able to get my car fixed quickly. There were no opinions - no one accused me of letting my car get in disrepair or putting pollution into the air by driving a car, no judgmental attitudes at all. I simply received information that I needed. However, to be honest, I haven't posted on Usenet for a long time and I've forgotten how vicious and pompously superior people can act here when they know they're anonymous. All you can do is killfile some, ignore others, and pick the most constructive ones out of the mess. Skye Well, you have to understand that not all of us cat lovers agree on everything.....Exactly what is the best way to help cats is a matter of opinion, and there are things that some of us would do that others wouldn't do.....I happen (for example) to believe it is better to let a cat go, and give it a chance to fend for itself, than it is to put it to sleep.....But we have had some rousing wars and disagreements on this point. I picked up my favorite cat from a Burger King parking lot, where someone who couldn't keep him any longer just dropped him off.....When he tried to beg some hamburger from me, he got his little fanny thrown in my car, and brought home permanently. Not all cats are so lucky, so I can understand why others disagree with me..... |
#24
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Cat Pregnancy Questions?
OMG Wendy, I have never heard such a sad story in my entitre life. I used to wonder why people got so out of shape when they heard of our community bowl, but having heard this story, I now understand why. Our community bowl has two objectives. The first was to stop them starving, & the second was to see that they were fixed. I end up paying around $30 for a male, & $40 for a female. It's not a huge amount of money to find, & well worth the hassle of catching them. It is also worth having a word with your regular vet, to see if they are willing to do cheaper rates if you take more than say, one a month to them too. I knew that things were bad in the USA regarding feral & unwanted cats, but I had no idea exactly how bad. I hope that story serves as a reminder to others as to why it is so important to get them spayed & neutered. I have to say that I am very shocked to hear your story. That is absolutely horrific!! I can only assume that we lead very sheltered lives in the UK, or the problem is not yet quite at crisis point. Thank you for sharing this story with us. Sheelagh "o" ( Nice to see you too;o) It's the God's honest truth. I was shocked when the volunteer came back and told us of the problem she had getting the poor thing put out of it's misery. It was bent over backwards seizing and covered it what looked like maggots and the SPCA couldn't help us. The volunteer finally took it to a private vet who was still open and they euthanized the kitten for us. We're smack dab in the middle of kitten season here and I guess everyone is filled up with cats. There is a shelter in Philadelphia that has been giving them away for a dollar just so they don't have to euthanize. The sad thing is that many of these $1 cats will be returned or dumped back on the street and have to be dealt with later. Maybe there will be more room then though - or at least one can hope. I'm back up to 17 fosters myself. Two of them are bottle feeders that were found outside with no mom. There were four kittens to start with but the one was dead when it arrived at the vets office and they euthanized the other because it was so sick. I was at the vet's picking up one of my fosters (the mother of 6 kittens born on Father's Day) and they asked if I could take the surviving two. W |
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Cat Pregnancy Questions?
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:20:49 +0000, Skye wrote:
Oh for God's sakes, I would NEVER start feeding a cat or dog just to quit when it becomes inconvenient for me. That's commendable, but what is wrong with the idea of trapping this animal and getting her spayed? What if she comes around with a litter of kittens? Will you feed them all? Eventually you might be faced with a Malthusian problem. Charlie |
#26
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Cat Pregnancy Questions?
Charlie Wilkes wrote:
Oh for God's sakes, I would NEVER start feeding a cat or dog just to quit when it becomes inconvenient for me. That's commendable, but what is wrong with the idea of trapping this animal and getting her spayed? What if she comes around with a litter of kittens? Will you feed them all? Eventually you might be faced with a Malthusian problem. Charlie Absolutely nothing at all. I think this would be the ideal answer actually. The best person to trap her, would be Skye, or someone that would be willing to assist her to trap her initially. All she needs is a bit of support, to believe in herself. I know how daunted I felt @ the prospect of trying to catch Lucy (fur!!). I had no confidence in myself & worride silly that if If didn't get it right, that she would never trust me again, or even return. However, with a bit of support & self belief, I had the confidence to try it out. Mind you, I did worry that If I failed I wouldn't ever get the chance to even try again, & my immediate worry was that her wounds were festering, & I knew that if I didn't manage to trap her, that it might have been the end of her. I think the main thing, is that Skye receives the support she needs, & to be encouraged to seek help with trapping this elder queen. IMHO, it is vital that she seeks & finds that support, & It might also help if she had some outside help with this one too. I don't know what options are available to her, but I am certain there must be some kind of support? Once she finds this support, they might even be willing to help her to physically help her trap her? I also agree that if Skye feels that she simply can't be associated with the cat's trauma & be affecting their bond, then it would be best for her to ask for another person to trap her As long as Skye is willing to spay for the spay fee, I am certain that any human society, RSPCA assistance, would be happy to help out where they could?( Or, I would like to think so, anyway?!!) It can't possibly cost that much, as long as it is planned carefully? That's commendable, but what is wrong with the idea of trapping this animal and getting her spayed? What if she comes around with a litter of kittens? Will you feed them all? Eventually you might be faced with a Malthusian problem. Charlie, I had to search for what the meaning of this word meant (Malthusian) Now that I understand, I agree with you. There is no favour to be gained in feeding an animal, unless you are prepared to follow the project all the way through. As long as she spays her, then this is a success story. However, if she doesn't, then it will generate a whole new set of problems, for several people having to pick up the pieces (i.e: having to euthanize the kittens, unless they can all be homed), which is rather unlikely & @ the expense of shelter cats I guess), &, if the mother doesn't trust humans. With no trust from the mother, it is unlikely that the kitties would ever be socialised, & you end up with another litter of kittens, as well as the mother who all need attending to, one way or another.... This is a difficult one, but my advice is the same as yours, on balance. I hope that you try to do this Skye? I felt the same way that you do now, but I managed it, so I have every faith that you can too. Good Luck, Sheelagh "o" -- Sheelagh "o" Message posted via CatKB.com http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...ealth/200708/1 |
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Cat Pregnancy Questions?
Wendy wrote:
OMG Wendy, I have never heard such a sad story in my entitre life. I used to wonder why people got so out of shape when they heard of our [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] Sheelagh "o" ( Nice to see you too;o) It's the God's honest truth. I was shocked when the volunteer came back and told us of the problem she had getting the poor thing put out of it's misery. It was bent over backwards seizing and covered it what looked like maggots and the SPCA couldn't help us. The volunteer finally took it to a private vet who was still open and they euthanized the kitten for us. We're smack dab in the middle of kitten season here and I guess everyone is filled up with cats. There is a shelter in Philadelphia that has been giving them away for a dollar just so they don't have to euthanize. The sad thing is that many of these $1 cats will be returned or dumped back on the street and have to be dealt with later. Maybe there will be more room then though - or at least one can hope. I'm back up to 17 fosters myself. Two of them are bottle feeders that were found outside with no mom. There were four kittens to start with but the one was dead when it arrived at the vets office and they euthanized the other because it was so sick. I was at the vet's picking up one of my fosters (the mother of 6 kittens born on Father's Day) and they asked if I could take the surviving two. W It's the God's honest truth. I was shocked when the volunteer came back and told us of the problem she had getting the poor thing put out of it's misery. It was bent over backwards seizing and covered it what looked like maggots and the SPCA couldn't help us. The volunteer finally took it to a private vet who was still open and they euthanized the kitten for us. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, I believe every word you said Wendy. I just found it morbidly & disgustingly unfair, dreadful & sickening really. Each time that I hear a story like this, it makes me feel so angry with humans, because ultimately, it is our job to make sure that this doesn't happen. so, to hear that the volunteer actually understood what you were saying, but still had no room for the poor little thing, disgusts me! How terribly sad, wasn't it? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------------- We're smack dab in the middle of kitten season here and I guess everyone is filled up with cats. There is a shelter in Philadelphia that has been giving them away for a dollar just so they don't have to euthanize. The sad thing is that many of these $1 cats will be returned or dumped back on the street and have to be dealt with later. Maybe there will be more room then though - or at least one can hope. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------- This news is also terrible too. To have to be forced into selling a kitten for a $1 (which = 50pence here- nothing. A bar of chocolate costs the same price!!!), speaks volumes in how desperate they all are...And, as you rightly point out, most of them will either throw them out on the street because they all to ashamed or embarrassed to take them back to the shelter & admit that things haven't worked out they way they planned it, or simply can't be bothered with the problem.. And so the cycles starts over once more ( I hope you are right about there being more hope. I feel so ashamed with humans sometimes!?? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm back up to 17 fosters myself. Two of them are bottle feeders that were found outside with no mom. There were four kittens to start with but the one was dead when it arrived at the vets office and they euthanized the other because it was so sick. I was at the vet's picking up one of my fosters (the mother of 6 kittens born on Father's Day) and they asked if I could take the surviving two. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------- I can only say that I commend you Wendy. In the last 3 months, I have only had 9 cats & kittens & that was hard work, so I realise how much you must have put in to this project. Well done! If only there were other Foster mothers like you out there. I do one day @ my local shelter a wee, anything that the CPL bring to me, & also a bit of work for Ragdoll Rescue UK too. In fact I think it was you that advised me that If I really missed the kitten bit of breeding, then I should try doing rescue instead. It was one of the best pieces of advice I ever took on board & followed up. It brings me great satisfaction & I enjoy it n end on the whole. Of course it has it's bad moments, but what doesn't these days?. Just out of interest, how long to the shop keep their cats before calling you to say that they need for you to take them away ? Also, how did you get on with the 2 kittens that you asked for @ the shop as well, if you don't mind? Thanks, & good for you too, Sheelagh "o" -- Sheelagh "o" Message posted via CatKB.com http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...ealth/200708/1 |
#28
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Cat Pregnancy Questions?
"Wendy" wrote in message news:S9idnSXf49-
group. We do adoptions from a Pet Smart store on Saturdays. Last weekend we had a man bring us a kitten who was obviously on death's door. It appeared to have injested some type of poison and was having convultions. It was beyond helping so one of our volunteers took the kitten to the local SPCA to get it euthanized. When she arrived there the person at the shelter told her they couldn't help us because they didn't have room. I have to ask. When confronted with this problem, why did *you* not force yourself to take action? You had a kitten that was obviously in great distress, you knew it had to be put down and you couldn't immediately find a vet to do it. All the time and effort you spent trying to do the right thing and the kitten was suffering. A few seconds of submerging it in a sink and it's agony would have been over. Relatively quick and painless. That takes real guts and real love of animals, putting an animal down that you care for. I had to do that once to a dog I owned after she got run over by a car. The way her guts were splayed out on the road and she was still alive yelping in agony, all I could do was run to get a tire iron and crush her skull. Then I buried her in my backyard garden. I cried for over a week and it was the hardest thing I've ever had to do, but I knew it was the right thing to do. I still cry sometimes when I think of what I had to do, but I know that under the same circumstances, I'd do it again. Putting aside society's laws for a moment, if the situation was reversed, I'd want someone to do the same thing for me. That was the only way I could rationalize myself into doing what I knew I had to do. |
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Cat Pregnancy Questions?
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 04:12:49 -0400, Upscale wrote:
I have to ask. When confronted with this problem, why did *you* not force yourself to take action? You had a kitten that was obviously in great distress, you knew it had to be put down and you couldn't immediately find a vet to do it. All the time and effort you spent trying to do the right thing and the kitten was suffering. A few seconds of submerging it in a sink and it's agony would have been over. Relatively quick and painless. That takes real guts and real love of animals, putting an animal down that you care for. It's also illegal in many areas: it's considered animal cruelty for an unapproved person to use an unapproved method to end the distress of a suffering animal. It *is* however allowed to *cause* suffering of certain species during hunting season, provided you have a license (you don't have to be competent to kill quickly so long as you have the license). -- T.E.D. ) |
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Cat Pregnancy Questions?
"Ted Davis" wrote in message It's also illegal in many areas: it's considered animal cruelty for an unapproved person to use an unapproved method to end the distress of a suffering animal. Of course it's illegal, probably always will be in North America, but that's not the point as far as I'm concerned. When I put my dog down, it wouldn't have mattered if there were 20 people there threatening to have me charged, it was a matter of my own peace of mind. And if I'd had to pay some fine or serve some type of incarceration, that wouldn't have mattered much either. It was just a matter of my doing what I felt was needed to be done right away. |
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