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#111
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Steve Crane wrote:
(jamie) wrote in message ... Steve Crane wrote: Here's the decision you must make. Do I feed a food with excesses of phosphorus in order to justify some other emotional need/desire/preference I have, even when that need/desire/preference cannot be proven to show any benefit? According to the lists at http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/dryfood.html The chicken, turkey, chicken & herring, and turkey & salmon flavors of Wellness don't have significantly more phosphorus than most of the varieties of Science Diet. The mixed seafood flavors have more, but so do a few of the Science Diet dry varieties. Actually according to the canned website above the Wellness products average 201 mgs/100 kcals and the Science Diet products average 160 mg/ 100kcal, that an increase of 25.62% mroe phosphorus in the Wellness canned foods. 25% is a significant difference. Playing math games by adding up all the Hills and Wellness flavors and dividing by the number of flavors offered does not negate what I stated. Several of the Wellness flavors contain 175-183mg/kcals, while the Science Diet canned Light Adult, Savory Cuts flavors and Senior Savory Cuts flavors are in the same range. Yet the *senior* Savory Cuts is *not* among the lower of Science Diet canned flavors in phosphorus, as the 3 "Adult" flavors and the "Senior" that are not Savory Cuts are lower. Only 2 of 16 types of Science Diet Dry are lower in phosphorus than the flavors I mentioned of Wellness canned, and quite a few of them are a good deal higher, some well over 200. Same for Hills prescription dry -- only a couple lower and several well over 200. That said, my cats *were* very happy and healthy on Science Diet dry Adult and Sensitive Stomach until they became elderly. The major disappointment was that several vets told me that a diet of Science diet dry would prevent FUS/FLUTD, but poor Gideon eventually developed a bladder full of struvite crystals on it. -- jamie ) "There's a seeker born every minute." |
#113
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From: (jamie)
Steve Crane wrote: (jamie) wrote in message ... Steve Crane wrote: Here's the decision you must make. Do I feed a food with excesses of phosphorus in order to justify some other emotional need/desire/preference I have, even when that need/desire/preference cannot be proven to show any benefit? According to the lists at http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/dryfood.html The chicken, turkey, chicken & herring, and turkey & salmon flavors of Wellness don't have significantly more phosphorus than most of the varieties of Science Diet. The mixed seafood flavors have more, but so do a few of the Science Diet dry varieties. Actually according to the canned website above the Wellness products average 201 mgs/100 kcals and the Science Diet products average 160 mg/ 100kcal, that an increase of 25.62% mroe phosphorus in the Wellness canned foods. 25% is a significant difference. Playing math games by adding up all the Hills and Wellness flavors and dividing by the number of flavors offered does not negate what I stated. Several of the Wellness flavors contain 175-183mg/kcals, while the Science Diet canned Light Adult, Savory Cuts flavors and Senior Savory Cuts flavors are in the same range. Yet the *senior* Savory Cuts is *not* among the lower of Science Diet canned flavors in phosphorus, as the 3 "Adult" flavors and the "Senior" that are not Savory Cuts are lower. Only 2 of 16 types of Science Diet Dry are lower in phosphorus than the flavors I mentioned of Wellness canned, and quite a few of them are a good deal higher, some well over 200. Same for Hills prescription dry -- only a couple lower and several well over 200. Very interesting..... Steve does have a habit of fudging numbers when it comes to brands other than Science Diet. Of course as an employee of Hill's, Steve probably feels the need to do so. That said, my cats *were* very happy and healthy on Science Diet dry Adult and Sensitive Stomach until they became elderly. The major disappointment was that several vets told me that a diet of Science diet dry would prevent FUS/FLUTD, but poor Gideon eventually developed a bladder full of struvite crystals on it. Oh dear Sorry to hear about Gideon, Jamie. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm |
#114
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olitter (PawsForThought) wrote in message ...
From: (jamie) Very interesting..... Steve does have a habit of fudging numbers when it comes to brands other than Science Diet. Of course as an employee of Hill's, Steve probably feels the need to do so. Oh baloney - no numbers were "fudged" and you well know it. I simply took the averages of the diets Jamie provided. Do the math yourself and show me where I "fudged" the numbers. Sometimes Lauren you do more damage to your own credibility when you illustrate your obsessive predjudice. That said, my cats *were* very happy and healthy on Science Diet dry Adult and Sensitive Stomach until they became elderly. The major disappointment was that several vets told me that a diet of Science diet dry would prevent FUS/FLUTD, but poor Gideon eventually developed a bladder full of struvite crystals on it. No veterinarian should ever have told you that Science Diet dry would "prevent" FLUTD. No food can accomplish that 100% of the time. |
#115
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olitter (PawsForThought) wrote in message ...
From: (jamie) Very interesting..... Steve does have a habit of fudging numbers when it comes to brands other than Science Diet. Of course as an employee of Hill's, Steve probably feels the need to do so. Oh baloney - no numbers were "fudged" and you well know it. I simply took the averages of the diets Jamie provided. Do the math yourself and show me where I "fudged" the numbers. Sometimes Lauren you do more damage to your own credibility when you illustrate your obsessive predjudice. That said, my cats *were* very happy and healthy on Science Diet dry Adult and Sensitive Stomach until they became elderly. The major disappointment was that several vets told me that a diet of Science diet dry would prevent FUS/FLUTD, but poor Gideon eventually developed a bladder full of struvite crystals on it. No veterinarian should ever have told you that Science Diet dry would "prevent" FLUTD. No food can accomplish that 100% of the time. |
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#117
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#118
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PawsForThought wrote:
From: (jamie) That said, my cats *were* very happy and healthy on Science Diet dry Adult and Sensitive Stomach until they became elderly. The major disappointment was that several vets told me that a diet of Science diet dry would prevent FUS/FLUTD, but poor Gideon eventually developed a bladder full of struvite crystals on it. Oh dear Sorry to hear about Gideon, Jamie. Well, he's thankfully had a happy ending after switching vets. The poor fella was misdiagnosed as arthritis last November, because he was lurching when he walked with a strange posture of his rear end kind of hunched up, by the previous quack vet. (The vet who missed his enormous goiter and a couple of broken teeth, and didn't seem to think blood tests were in order during 3 visits where I kept bringing him back for weight loss and not eating enough, when he'd dropped from 15.5 pounds to under 13 pounds. "It's just the new canned diet.") When I first took him to the new vet who recently did his thyroid surgery, she suggested an X-ray to confirm his arthritis, and there were no signs of arthritis, but his bladder looked as though it was *full*, and I do mean *full*, of fish gravel. He had been on canned a few months by then, and had stopped lurching when he walked, so the stones had likely been even worse last fall. That he was also developing hyperthyroid and drinking excessively probably protected him from blockage, but it also masked any signs I might have otherwise seen of concentrated or bloody urine. He never peed outside the box, either. We expected that he would need bladder surgery along with the thyroid surgery to remove so many bladder stones. But when he had his pre-op X-ray after the 3 weeks on Tapazole to see if the shadow on his chest had changed (it was gone), we had a big surprise. He had somehow managed to dissolve all but a marble-sized cluster of stones. Apparently the switch to Wellness, acidifying his urine, along with the excessive drinking, allowed him to dissolve and pee out most of the crystals. My vet didn't feel it was necessary to surgically remove the small cluster that was left, that he would be able to pee them out on his own. He'd dropped to 10 3/4 pounds by the time he had his surgery. He had his thyroid and dental surgery on Aug. 31, and 10 days later his follow-up T4 and kidney levels were fine, and he'd gained half a pound. My people-scale at home is too inaccurate to weigh him, but now when I pick him up, he feels like a cat again, instead of a bird with fur. I'm going to swing him by the vet's office next week to find out what he actually weighs. -- jamie ) "There's a seeker born every minute." |
#119
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PawsForThought wrote:
From: (jamie) That said, my cats *were* very happy and healthy on Science Diet dry Adult and Sensitive Stomach until they became elderly. The major disappointment was that several vets told me that a diet of Science diet dry would prevent FUS/FLUTD, but poor Gideon eventually developed a bladder full of struvite crystals on it. Oh dear Sorry to hear about Gideon, Jamie. Well, he's thankfully had a happy ending after switching vets. The poor fella was misdiagnosed as arthritis last November, because he was lurching when he walked with a strange posture of his rear end kind of hunched up, by the previous quack vet. (The vet who missed his enormous goiter and a couple of broken teeth, and didn't seem to think blood tests were in order during 3 visits where I kept bringing him back for weight loss and not eating enough, when he'd dropped from 15.5 pounds to under 13 pounds. "It's just the new canned diet.") When I first took him to the new vet who recently did his thyroid surgery, she suggested an X-ray to confirm his arthritis, and there were no signs of arthritis, but his bladder looked as though it was *full*, and I do mean *full*, of fish gravel. He had been on canned a few months by then, and had stopped lurching when he walked, so the stones had likely been even worse last fall. That he was also developing hyperthyroid and drinking excessively probably protected him from blockage, but it also masked any signs I might have otherwise seen of concentrated or bloody urine. He never peed outside the box, either. We expected that he would need bladder surgery along with the thyroid surgery to remove so many bladder stones. But when he had his pre-op X-ray after the 3 weeks on Tapazole to see if the shadow on his chest had changed (it was gone), we had a big surprise. He had somehow managed to dissolve all but a marble-sized cluster of stones. Apparently the switch to Wellness, acidifying his urine, along with the excessive drinking, allowed him to dissolve and pee out most of the crystals. My vet didn't feel it was necessary to surgically remove the small cluster that was left, that he would be able to pee them out on his own. He'd dropped to 10 3/4 pounds by the time he had his surgery. He had his thyroid and dental surgery on Aug. 31, and 10 days later his follow-up T4 and kidney levels were fine, and he'd gained half a pound. My people-scale at home is too inaccurate to weigh him, but now when I pick him up, he feels like a cat again, instead of a bird with fur. I'm going to swing him by the vet's office next week to find out what he actually weighs. -- jamie ) "There's a seeker born every minute." |
#120
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From: (jamie)
PawsForThought wrote: From: (jamie) That said, my cats *were* very happy and healthy on Science Diet dry Adult and Sensitive Stomach until they became elderly. The major disappointment was that several vets told me that a diet of Science diet dry would prevent FUS/FLUTD, but poor Gideon eventually developed a bladder full of struvite crystals on it. Oh dear Sorry to hear about Gideon, Jamie. Well, he's thankfully had a happy ending after switching vets. The poor fella was misdiagnosed as arthritis last November, because he was lurching when he walked with a strange posture of his rear end kind of hunched up, by the previous quack vet. (The vet who missed his enormous goiter and a couple of broken teeth, and didn't seem to think blood tests were in order during 3 visits where I kept bringing him back for weight loss and not eating enough, when he'd dropped from 15.5 pounds to under 13 pounds. "It's just the new canned diet.") When I first took him to the new vet who recently did his thyroid surgery, she suggested an X-ray to confirm his arthritis, and there were no signs of arthritis, but his bladder looked as though it was *full*, and I do mean *full*, of fish gravel. He had been on canned a few months by then, and had stopped lurching when he walked, so the stones had likely been even worse last fall. That he was also developing hyperthyroid and drinking excessively probably protected him from blockage, but it also masked any signs I might have otherwise seen of concentrated or bloody urine. He never peed outside the box, either. We expected that he would need bladder surgery along with the thyroid surgery to remove so many bladder stones. But when he had his pre-op X-ray after the 3 weeks on Tapazole to see if the shadow on his chest had changed (it was gone), we had a big surprise. He had somehow managed to dissolve all but a marble-sized cluster of stones. Apparently the switch to Wellness, acidifying his urine, along with the excessive drinking, allowed him to dissolve and pee out most of the crystals. My vet didn't feel it was necessary to surgically remove the small cluster that was left, that he would be able to pee them out on his own. He'd dropped to 10 3/4 pounds by the time he had his surgery. He had his thyroid and dental surgery on Aug. 31, and 10 days later his follow-up T4 and kidney levels were fine, and he'd gained half a pound. My people-scale at home is too inaccurate to weigh him, but now when I pick him up, he feels like a cat again, instead of a bird with fur. I'm going to swing him by the vet's office next week to find out what he actually weighs. Wow, Jamie, that sure sounds like a lot of crystals, poor boy! I'm really glad you switched him to Wellness and also found a new vet. Give Gideon a hug from me. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm |
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