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Lethal dose of morphine for a cat



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 17th 04, 01:48 PM
A.J. Rivett
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olitter (PawsForThought) wrote in message ...
From:
(jamie)


Kathryn Stein wrote:
(A.J. Rivett) wrote:

When the time comes and I have to euthanize my cat, I would like to do
it in the kindest way. I think this would be a nice meal of tuna
juice and tuna with some morphine in the tuna juice.

I have been told that 5 mg of morphine should be enough and that my
cat would just fall asleep after eating her last meal. She wouldn't
be traumatized at all and her last thoughts would be how nice the tuna
tasted and now just a long nap until her next life.

My question is whether 5 mg of morphine is about right. I don't want
to traumatize the cat by having someone give her a needle or by having
to take her to the vet (she hates the vet). I know that they don't
give morphine, they give potassium chloride or something like that and
I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.

The most humane euthanization, imho, would be to have the vet make a
house visit. I've had that done and it was very peaceful.


Agreed. In the drugged-tuna scenario, there's no way to be sure the
cat wouldn't vomit the drug, or if he would eat enough of it mixed
in food in the first place. Opiates cause vomiting in a percentage
of humans, I would expect the same in cats. A semi-conscious cat
aspirating vomit could turn this idealized scenario into a nightmare.


Also, how many cats that are so ill that euthansia would be considered would
even be able to eat?

I've had the vet come to my house too and I think that's the least stressful.

Lauren


Thank you for your response. I was aware of the vomiting scenario as
this is a problem in humans. I will probably opt for the vet visit
although when the initial sedative was given to one of my previous
cats, it was not appreciated by the cat. She couldn't figure out why
she was losing her coordination and she became agitated. That is why
I'm looking to something that will allow her to sleep without knowing
that she is being snuffed.

My belief is that cats know when somebody is trying to off them and a
needle in the butt is a sure sign that something's up.
  #22  
Old September 17th 04, 03:11 PM
kaeli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
enlightened us with...
(Paulette) wrote in message ...
If you give a cat morphine (if you could even OBTAIN morphine) it will
go wild...climb the walls. etc. Morphine also stimulates horses.


False


True. Sort of.
http://opioids.com/morphine/felinemania.html

Quote:
(1) autonomic stage (0-15 min postdrug): with vocalization, salivation,
licking, swallowing, retching and vomiting; (2) quiet stage (15-60 min
postdrug): sitting, fixed gaze, mydriasis, and pricked pinnae; (3) head
movement stage (from 30-60 min postdrug and decreasing by the 5th hr): fully
aroused but mostly sitting; showing discrete, complex head movements of a
visual-tracking type with pouncing/avoidance paw movements, and with
irregular, dose-dependent bouts of rocking, pivoting, and backing. Sleep,
grooming, micturition and defecation were suppressed.
This certainly doesn't sound like a nice way to die for a cat.

--
--
~kaeli~
Can you be a closet claustrophobic?
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

  #23  
Old September 17th 04, 03:11 PM
kaeli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
enlightened us with...
(Paulette) wrote in message ...
If you give a cat morphine (if you could even OBTAIN morphine) it will
go wild...climb the walls. etc. Morphine also stimulates horses.


False


True. Sort of.
http://opioids.com/morphine/felinemania.html

Quote:
(1) autonomic stage (0-15 min postdrug): with vocalization, salivation,
licking, swallowing, retching and vomiting; (2) quiet stage (15-60 min
postdrug): sitting, fixed gaze, mydriasis, and pricked pinnae; (3) head
movement stage (from 30-60 min postdrug and decreasing by the 5th hr): fully
aroused but mostly sitting; showing discrete, complex head movements of a
visual-tracking type with pouncing/avoidance paw movements, and with
irregular, dose-dependent bouts of rocking, pivoting, and backing. Sleep,
grooming, micturition and defecation were suppressed.
This certainly doesn't sound like a nice way to die for a cat.

--
--
~kaeli~
Can you be a closet claustrophobic?
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

  #24  
Old September 17th 04, 05:00 PM
PawsForThought
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

From: (A.J. Rivett)

(PawsForThought) wrote in message
...
From:
(jamie)


Kathryn Stein wrote:
(A.J. Rivett) wrote:

When the time comes and I have to euthanize my cat, I would like to do
it in the kindest way. I think this would be a nice meal of tuna
juice and tuna with some morphine in the tuna juice.

I have been told that 5 mg of morphine should be enough and that my
cat would just fall asleep after eating her last meal. She wouldn't
be traumatized at all and her last thoughts would be how nice the tuna
tasted and now just a long nap until her next life.

My question is whether 5 mg of morphine is about right. I don't want
to traumatize the cat by having someone give her a needle or by having
to take her to the vet (she hates the vet). I know that they don't
give morphine, they give potassium chloride or something like that and
I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.

The most humane euthanization, imho, would be to have the vet make a
house visit. I've had that done and it was very peaceful.

Agreed. In the drugged-tuna scenario, there's no way to be sure the
cat wouldn't vomit the drug, or if he would eat enough of it mixed
in food in the first place. Opiates cause vomiting in a percentage
of humans, I would expect the same in cats. A semi-conscious cat
aspirating vomit could turn this idealized scenario into a nightmare.


Also, how many cats that are so ill that euthansia would be considered

would
even be able to eat?

I've had the vet come to my house too and I think that's the least

stressful.

Lauren


Thank you for your response. I was aware of the vomiting scenario as
this is a problem in humans. I will probably opt for the vet visit
although when the initial sedative was given to one of my previous
cats, it was not appreciated by the cat. She couldn't figure out why
she was losing her coordination and she became agitated. That is why
I'm looking to something that will allow her to sleep without knowing
that she is being snuffed.

My belief is that cats know when somebody is trying to off them and a
needle in the butt is a sure sign that something's up.


Yes, unfortunately, I also had a bad experience when one of my cats was
euthanized. She was very ill and the vet had a hard time finding a vein, plus
she was protesting greatly. My husband tried to remind me that anything a vet
did to Queenie always made her upset. But still it was really horrible. So
like you, I would also like to know of a better way.

Lauren
________
See my cats:
http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm
  #25  
Old September 17th 04, 05:00 PM
PawsForThought
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

From: (A.J. Rivett)

(PawsForThought) wrote in message
...
From:
(jamie)


Kathryn Stein wrote:
(A.J. Rivett) wrote:

When the time comes and I have to euthanize my cat, I would like to do
it in the kindest way. I think this would be a nice meal of tuna
juice and tuna with some morphine in the tuna juice.

I have been told that 5 mg of morphine should be enough and that my
cat would just fall asleep after eating her last meal. She wouldn't
be traumatized at all and her last thoughts would be how nice the tuna
tasted and now just a long nap until her next life.

My question is whether 5 mg of morphine is about right. I don't want
to traumatize the cat by having someone give her a needle or by having
to take her to the vet (she hates the vet). I know that they don't
give morphine, they give potassium chloride or something like that and
I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.

The most humane euthanization, imho, would be to have the vet make a
house visit. I've had that done and it was very peaceful.

Agreed. In the drugged-tuna scenario, there's no way to be sure the
cat wouldn't vomit the drug, or if he would eat enough of it mixed
in food in the first place. Opiates cause vomiting in a percentage
of humans, I would expect the same in cats. A semi-conscious cat
aspirating vomit could turn this idealized scenario into a nightmare.


Also, how many cats that are so ill that euthansia would be considered

would
even be able to eat?

I've had the vet come to my house too and I think that's the least

stressful.

Lauren


Thank you for your response. I was aware of the vomiting scenario as
this is a problem in humans. I will probably opt for the vet visit
although when the initial sedative was given to one of my previous
cats, it was not appreciated by the cat. She couldn't figure out why
she was losing her coordination and she became agitated. That is why
I'm looking to something that will allow her to sleep without knowing
that she is being snuffed.

My belief is that cats know when somebody is trying to off them and a
needle in the butt is a sure sign that something's up.


Yes, unfortunately, I also had a bad experience when one of my cats was
euthanized. She was very ill and the vet had a hard time finding a vein, plus
she was protesting greatly. My husband tried to remind me that anything a vet
did to Queenie always made her upset. But still it was really horrible. So
like you, I would also like to know of a better way.

Lauren
________
See my cats:
http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm
  #26  
Old September 17th 04, 09:34 PM
Sunflower
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...
From: (A.J. Rivett)


(PawsForThought) wrote in message
...
From:
(jamie)


Kathryn Stein wrote:
(A.J. Rivett) wrote:

When the time comes and I have to euthanize my cat, I would like to

do
it in the kindest way. I think this would be a nice meal of tuna
juice and tuna with some morphine in the tuna juice.

I have been told that 5 mg of morphine should be enough and that my
cat would just fall asleep after eating her last meal. She wouldn't
be traumatized at all and her last thoughts would be how nice the

tuna
tasted and now just a long nap until her next life.

My question is whether 5 mg of morphine is about right. I don't

want
to traumatize the cat by having someone give her a needle or by

having
to take her to the vet (she hates the vet). I know that they don't
give morphine, they give potassium chloride or something like that

and
I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.

The most humane euthanization, imho, would be to have the vet make a
house visit. I've had that done and it was very peaceful.

Agreed. In the drugged-tuna scenario, there's no way to be sure the
cat wouldn't vomit the drug, or if he would eat enough of it mixed
in food in the first place. Opiates cause vomiting in a percentage
of humans, I would expect the same in cats. A semi-conscious cat
aspirating vomit could turn this idealized scenario into a nightmare.

Also, how many cats that are so ill that euthansia would be considered

would
even be able to eat?

I've had the vet come to my house too and I think that's the least

stressful.

Lauren


Thank you for your response. I was aware of the vomiting scenario as
this is a problem in humans. I will probably opt for the vet visit
although when the initial sedative was given to one of my previous
cats, it was not appreciated by the cat. She couldn't figure out why
she was losing her coordination and she became agitated. That is why
I'm looking to something that will allow her to sleep without knowing
that she is being snuffed.

My belief is that cats know when somebody is trying to off them and a
needle in the butt is a sure sign that something's up.


Yes, unfortunately, I also had a bad experience when one of my cats was
euthanized. She was very ill and the vet had a hard time finding a vein,

plus
she was protesting greatly. My husband tried to remind me that anything a

vet
did to Queenie always made her upset. But still it was really horrible.

So
like you, I would also like to know of a better way.



A IM injection of a sedative and then a direct cardiac stick with the
euthanasia drug would be easiest on an animal that had hydration problems or
other issues with finding a vein. Unfortunately, most pet owners are more
upset by this procedure than repeated attempts to find a vein. A direct
cardiac stick on an already sedated patient is painless and exceedingly
quick. It's just not "pretty". I've participated in probably 200 animal
euthnasias by a veterinarian with me acting as a tech, and on the small
kittens or sick cats, this was the optimal procedure for shelter animals
because it was the most humane. The vet rarely offered this to any but the
most medically knowledgable pet owners however, because of the poor reaction
that most of them had to the image of a needle to the heart.


  #27  
Old September 17th 04, 09:34 PM
Sunflower
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...
From: (A.J. Rivett)


(PawsForThought) wrote in message
...
From:
(jamie)


Kathryn Stein wrote:
(A.J. Rivett) wrote:

When the time comes and I have to euthanize my cat, I would like to

do
it in the kindest way. I think this would be a nice meal of tuna
juice and tuna with some morphine in the tuna juice.

I have been told that 5 mg of morphine should be enough and that my
cat would just fall asleep after eating her last meal. She wouldn't
be traumatized at all and her last thoughts would be how nice the

tuna
tasted and now just a long nap until her next life.

My question is whether 5 mg of morphine is about right. I don't

want
to traumatize the cat by having someone give her a needle or by

having
to take her to the vet (she hates the vet). I know that they don't
give morphine, they give potassium chloride or something like that

and
I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.

The most humane euthanization, imho, would be to have the vet make a
house visit. I've had that done and it was very peaceful.

Agreed. In the drugged-tuna scenario, there's no way to be sure the
cat wouldn't vomit the drug, or if he would eat enough of it mixed
in food in the first place. Opiates cause vomiting in a percentage
of humans, I would expect the same in cats. A semi-conscious cat
aspirating vomit could turn this idealized scenario into a nightmare.

Also, how many cats that are so ill that euthansia would be considered

would
even be able to eat?

I've had the vet come to my house too and I think that's the least

stressful.

Lauren


Thank you for your response. I was aware of the vomiting scenario as
this is a problem in humans. I will probably opt for the vet visit
although when the initial sedative was given to one of my previous
cats, it was not appreciated by the cat. She couldn't figure out why
she was losing her coordination and she became agitated. That is why
I'm looking to something that will allow her to sleep without knowing
that she is being snuffed.

My belief is that cats know when somebody is trying to off them and a
needle in the butt is a sure sign that something's up.


Yes, unfortunately, I also had a bad experience when one of my cats was
euthanized. She was very ill and the vet had a hard time finding a vein,

plus
she was protesting greatly. My husband tried to remind me that anything a

vet
did to Queenie always made her upset. But still it was really horrible.

So
like you, I would also like to know of a better way.



A IM injection of a sedative and then a direct cardiac stick with the
euthanasia drug would be easiest on an animal that had hydration problems or
other issues with finding a vein. Unfortunately, most pet owners are more
upset by this procedure than repeated attempts to find a vein. A direct
cardiac stick on an already sedated patient is painless and exceedingly
quick. It's just not "pretty". I've participated in probably 200 animal
euthnasias by a veterinarian with me acting as a tech, and on the small
kittens or sick cats, this was the optimal procedure for shelter animals
because it was the most humane. The vet rarely offered this to any but the
most medically knowledgable pet owners however, because of the poor reaction
that most of them had to the image of a needle to the heart.


  #28  
Old September 18th 04, 07:41 AM
Adam Helberg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"A.J. Rivett" wrote in message
om...
When the time comes and I have to euthanize my cat, I would like to do
it in the kindest way. I think this would be a nice meal of tuna
juice and tuna with some morphine in the tuna juice.

I have been told that 5 mg of morphine should be enough and that my
cat would just fall asleep after eating her last meal. She wouldn't
be traumatized at all and her last thoughts would be how nice the tuna
tasted and now just a long nap until her next life.

My question is whether 5 mg of morphine is about right. I don't want
to traumatize the cat by having someone give her a needle or by having
to take her to the vet (she hates the vet). I know that they don't
give morphine, they give potassium chloride or something like that and
I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.


From where are you going to get morphine?


  #29  
Old September 18th 04, 07:41 AM
Adam Helberg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"A.J. Rivett" wrote in message
om...
When the time comes and I have to euthanize my cat, I would like to do
it in the kindest way. I think this would be a nice meal of tuna
juice and tuna with some morphine in the tuna juice.

I have been told that 5 mg of morphine should be enough and that my
cat would just fall asleep after eating her last meal. She wouldn't
be traumatized at all and her last thoughts would be how nice the tuna
tasted and now just a long nap until her next life.

My question is whether 5 mg of morphine is about right. I don't want
to traumatize the cat by having someone give her a needle or by having
to take her to the vet (she hates the vet). I know that they don't
give morphine, they give potassium chloride or something like that and
I think morphine may be more expensive but it's a nicer way to go.


From where are you going to get morphine?


  #30  
Old September 18th 04, 09:13 AM
Phil P.
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Posts: n/a
Default


"A.J. Rivett" wrote in message
om...

I will probably opt for the vet visit
although when the initial sedative was given to one of my previous
cats, it was not appreciated by the cat. She couldn't figure out why
she was losing her coordination and she became agitated.


Either your vet is an asshole or he had no training in euthanasia.

Your vet should have used a catheter to ensure that your cat died
peacefully, without adverse effects. After the saline flush he should have
used a rapid acting barbiturate - like thiopental, which puts the cat into a
mellow state of relaxation and then anesthesia before the final drug.

Euthanasia should be conducted like a ceremony. Its the final gift that we
lovingly bestow upon our dearly loved cats. I make absolutely sure our
terminally ill and dying cats' euthanasias are conducted with the same
respect and reverence as my own. I have no tolerance for vets who simply
kill cats as part of a day's work.



 




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