Getting ready for a new aby kitten in Chicago-advice on vets and preparations needed

wrote in message
...
wrote:
Oh, I see, so as long as it's not *that many* the displacement and
eventual killing of these cats is justified.

And maybe you should realize, your efforts should be put itno stuff that
has a lot more affect, like people who let their cats roam around
unspayed, or want a litter just for cuteness just to turn around and give
that litter to the shelter (or dump them at 2 weeks of age). Or the feral
cat group.

Sure, you can rail on about something that doesn't really affect the
probelm that much, and not spend as much effort on stuff that does, or you
can spend your effort on stuff that actually matters a whole lot more!

Alice


Wow, if you really believe this, then it's obvious that you don't know much
about the work that Megan does. I suggest you check her web site.

MaryL

MaryL wrote:
Wow, if you really believe this, then it's obvious that you don't know much
about the work that Megan does. I suggest you check her web site.


All I am saying is that the purebreds don't really displace that many
homes and ther eare a lot of things that displace homes a lot more. As I
said, I have yet to see any large amount of epople with a purebred. The
most people seem to care is color of the cat (lately I've seen a lot of
people looking everywhere for a ginger cat), other than that it's just a
cat.. most people don't even know anything about any cat breed (other than
Siamese and Persian). A cat's a cat to them. Get them at the shelter, get
them from the newspaper, have kittens themselves (I've met at least
just as many people who have a mother/son mother/daughter cats as
people with purebreds) they don't care. I think though what I consider
breeder and what others do differs. When I talk breeder, I'm talking about
some one who is trying to improve a specific cat breed, not whoever is
advertising random kittens in the newspaper (as som eone else said they
considered breeders). And as an ad on, a lot of those cats in the
newspaper will become shelter cats when they can't find a home. Or worse,
dumped cats.

Some of those in the paper are breeders, sure, but I'm pretty sur
they wouldn't constitute "responsible" breeders in my opinion (takes more
than just breeding a certain breed). And yet most people get their cats as
strays, from friends who had the accidental litter, or from the shelter
(believe it or not).

What I think seems to be a big problem is no one wants anything but a
kitten. Everytime I have some one looking for a cat, they want a kitten.
They want to know if the shelters have kittens. Or they've already looked
and the shelters don't and they want to know where has them. They can't be
convinced that a cat is a good adoption (oh, I know they need to be
adopted, but we have a special case... we want to see them from young so
we can bond, we have another cat, we just had a cat die and want one we'll
have for a long time).

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

MaryL wrote:
Wow, if you really believe this, then it's obvious that you don't know much
about the work that Megan does. I suggest you check her web site.


All I am saying is that the purebreds don't really displace that many
homes and ther eare a lot of things that displace homes a lot more. As I
said, I have yet to see any large amount of epople with a purebred. The
most people seem to care is color of the cat (lately I've seen a lot of
people looking everywhere for a ginger cat), other than that it's just a
cat.. most people don't even know anything about any cat breed (other than
Siamese and Persian). A cat's a cat to them. Get them at the shelter, get
them from the newspaper, have kittens themselves (I've met at least
just as many people who have a mother/son mother/daughter cats as
people with purebreds) they don't care. I think though what I consider
breeder and what others do differs. When I talk breeder, I'm talking about
some one who is trying to improve a specific cat breed, not whoever is
advertising random kittens in the newspaper (as som eone else said they
considered breeders). And as an ad on, a lot of those cats in the
newspaper will become shelter cats when they can't find a home. Or worse,
dumped cats.

Some of those in the paper are breeders, sure, but I'm pretty sur
they wouldn't constitute "responsible" breeders in my opinion (takes more
than just breeding a certain breed). And yet most people get their cats as
strays, from friends who had the accidental litter, or from the shelter
(believe it or not).

What I think seems to be a big problem is no one wants anything but a
kitten. Everytime I have some one looking for a cat, they want a kitten.
They want to know if the shelters have kittens. Or they've already looked
and the shelters don't and they want to know where has them. They can't be
convinced that a cat is a good adoption (oh, I know they need to be
adopted, but we have a special case... we want to see them from young so
we can bond, we have another cat, we just had a cat die and want one we'll
have for a long time).

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

wrote in message
...
MaryL wrote:
Wow, if you really believe this, then it's obvious that you don't know
much
about the work that Megan does. I suggest you check her web site.

When I talk breeder, I'm talking about
some one who is trying to improve a specific cat breed, not whoever is
advertising random kittens in the newspaper (as som eone else said they
considered breeders).

Yes, this is the definition I use. Unfortunately, many abnormalities have
now been instilled in a number of breeds -- even though the original purpose
may have been to "improve" a breed. Look what has happened to persians
(which were originally beautiful cats and which now have what I consider to
be an ugly scrunched-in face -- almost a perpetually angry look). Their
short noses have led to many breathing problems.

And as an ad on, a lot of those cats in the
newspaper will become shelter cats when they can't find a home. Or worse,
dumped cats.


Yes, unfortunately true. This is why I suggested in an earlier message that
a person who wants a particular "look" can probably find it at a shelter or
through a rescue group.

Some of those in the paper are breeders, sure, but I'm pretty sur
they wouldn't constitute "responsible" breeders in my opinion (takes more
than just breeding a certain breed). And yet most people get their cats as
strays, from friends who had the accidental litter, or from the shelter
(believe it or not).

What I think seems to be a big problem is no one wants anything but a
kitten.

Agreed. Another big problem, so I am always pleased when someone adopts an
adult cat.

MaryL

wrote in message
...
MaryL wrote:
Wow, if you really believe this, then it's obvious that you don't know
much
about the work that Megan does. I suggest you check her web site.

When I talk breeder, I'm talking about
some one who is trying to improve a specific cat breed, not whoever is
advertising random kittens in the newspaper (as som eone else said they
considered breeders).

Yes, this is the definition I use. Unfortunately, many abnormalities have
now been instilled in a number of breeds -- even though the original purpose
may have been to "improve" a breed. Look what has happened to persians
(which were originally beautiful cats and which now have what I consider to
be an ugly scrunched-in face -- almost a perpetually angry look). Their
short noses have led to many breathing problems.

And as an ad on, a lot of those cats in the
newspaper will become shelter cats when they can't find a home. Or worse,
dumped cats.


Yes, unfortunately true. This is why I suggested in an earlier message that
a person who wants a particular "look" can probably find it at a shelter or
through a rescue group.

Some of those in the paper are breeders, sure, but I'm pretty sur
they wouldn't constitute "responsible" breeders in my opinion (takes more
than just breeding a certain breed). And yet most people get their cats as
strays, from friends who had the accidental litter, or from the shelter
(believe it or not).

What I think seems to be a big problem is no one wants anything but a
kitten.

Agreed. Another big problem, so I am always pleased when someone adopts an
adult cat.

MaryL

MaryL" wrote:

One problem that can be found among some purebreds comes from genetic
defects that result from intensive breeding for specific characteristics. A
number of congenital defects are linked to particular breeds of both cats
and dogs. For example, some manx cats have developed a peculiar hopping
motion; in some cases, the abnormality can be crippling. Persians and
himalayans have a high incidence of PKD (polycystic kidney disease),
persians often have breathing problems, hip dysplasia is often seen in Maine
coons, HCM (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy) is linked to some breeds, etc. This
certainly does not mean that all purebreds have abnormalities and obviously
does not mean that all shelter cats are healthy. I was commenting on the
perception that many people have that a purebred will somehow be a healthier
cat, when the opposite is sometimes true.

Well, when you qualify your statement by saying the opposite is *sometimes*
true, than it's more acceptable. There are certain genetic disorders linked to
various breeds (or more accurately, lines within those breeds) but one must
consider that tracing genetic disorders in random bred cats is naturally
difficult. HCM is not uncommon in mixed breed cats as well, but the genetic
link can be much more easily identified in purebred cats than in mixed breed
cats, obviously.

Some breeds of cats are actually noted for being generally very healthy and
long-lived.


As an aside: if people do want the characteristics found in purebreds, I
would encourage them to look for these cats in shelters or to contact rescue
groups for specific breeds. Cats of many breeds have been abandoned and need
to be placed in a good home.

If people are looking for cats that resemble a certain breed, they may well
find what they want in shelters, but they shouldn't expect to find many
purebred cats there. Most of the time cats described as a certain breed in
shelters are not purebred, but simply look somewhat like a certain breed. That
doesn't mean the cat will have the "characteristics" of the breed, but of
course the cat may well make a fine pet anyway.

MaryL" wrote:

One problem that can be found among some purebreds comes from genetic
defects that result from intensive breeding for specific characteristics. A
number of congenital defects are linked to particular breeds of both cats
and dogs. For example, some manx cats have developed a peculiar hopping
motion; in some cases, the abnormality can be crippling. Persians and
himalayans have a high incidence of PKD (polycystic kidney disease),
persians often have breathing problems, hip dysplasia is often seen in Maine
coons, HCM (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy) is linked to some breeds, etc. This
certainly does not mean that all purebreds have abnormalities and obviously
does not mean that all shelter cats are healthy. I was commenting on the
perception that many people have that a purebred will somehow be a healthier
cat, when the opposite is sometimes true.

Well, when you qualify your statement by saying the opposite is *sometimes*
true, than it's more acceptable. There are certain genetic disorders linked to
various breeds (or more accurately, lines within those breeds) but one must
consider that tracing genetic disorders in random bred cats is naturally
difficult. HCM is not uncommon in mixed breed cats as well, but the genetic
link can be much more easily identified in purebred cats than in mixed breed
cats, obviously.

Some breeds of cats are actually noted for being generally very healthy and
long-lived.


As an aside: if people do want the characteristics found in purebreds, I
would encourage them to look for these cats in shelters or to contact rescue
groups for specific breeds. Cats of many breeds have been abandoned and need
to be placed in a good home.

If people are looking for cats that resemble a certain breed, they may well
find what they want in shelters, but they shouldn't expect to find many
purebred cats there. Most of the time cats described as a certain breed in
shelters are not purebred, but simply look somewhat like a certain breed. That
doesn't mean the cat will have the "characteristics" of the breed, but of
course the cat may well make a fine pet anyway.

wrote in message ...
wrote:
Oh, I see, so as long as it's not *that many* the displacement and
eventual killing of these cats is justified.

And maybe you should realize, your efforts should be put itno stuff that
has a lot more affect, like people who let their cats roam around
unspayed, or want a litter just for cuteness just to turn around and give
that litter to the shelter (or dump them at 2 weeks of age). Or the feral
cat group.

Sure, you can rail on about something that doesn't really affect the
probelm that much

Well, IME, it does affect the problem "that much". Purebreds make up
15-25% of the surrenders at the shelters I worked at - not to mention
the fact that there is an overall cat overpop problem. For breeders
to deny this fact is classic "It's not my problem!" ostrich behavior,
and shows a complete lack of compassion for the plight of cats.

The pure and simple fact is this: 99% of people breeding these animals
don't have any buisness doing so - not for the breed, and not for
society. The other underlying problem is that 99% of that 99% think
*they* belong in the 1% that should be breeding.

I have never met a more repugnant sector of society - they claim to
have the best interst of their animals at heart, yet treat their
animals like chattel - I have been in catteries that were downright
shameful. I have seen veterinary files of breeders three inches
thick, for treatment of animals that are ill-bred. Yet, these
breeders still continue the racket "for the breed". They're selfish,
pugnacious humans, and an embarassment to those who *do* care about
the breeds, and cats, in general. Most are more interested in being
big fish in their little, fetid pond than what they are doing to help
the breed, and I have yet to meet one who is concerned with the
welfare of the feline as a species.

As far as I'm concerned, they can all rot in hell, because that's
where they belong.

-L.

wrote in message ...
wrote:
Oh, I see, so as long as it's not *that many* the displacement and
eventual killing of these cats is justified.

And maybe you should realize, your efforts should be put itno stuff that
has a lot more affect, like people who let their cats roam around
unspayed, or want a litter just for cuteness just to turn around and give
that litter to the shelter (or dump them at 2 weeks of age). Or the feral
cat group.

Sure, you can rail on about something that doesn't really affect the
probelm that much

Well, IME, it does affect the problem "that much". Purebreds make up
15-25% of the surrenders at the shelters I worked at - not to mention
the fact that there is an overall cat overpop problem. For breeders
to deny this fact is classic "It's not my problem!" ostrich behavior,
and shows a complete lack of compassion for the plight of cats.

The pure and simple fact is this: 99% of people breeding these animals
don't have any buisness doing so - not for the breed, and not for
society. The other underlying problem is that 99% of that 99% think
*they* belong in the 1% that should be breeding.

I have never met a more repugnant sector of society - they claim to
have the best interst of their animals at heart, yet treat their
animals like chattel - I have been in catteries that were downright
shameful. I have seen veterinary files of breeders three inches
thick, for treatment of animals that are ill-bred. Yet, these
breeders still continue the racket "for the breed". They're selfish,
pugnacious humans, and an embarassment to those who *do* care about
the breeds, and cats, in general. Most are more interested in being
big fish in their little, fetid pond than what they are doing to help
the breed, and I have yet to meet one who is concerned with the
welfare of the feline as a species.

As far as I'm concerned, they can all rot in hell, because that's
where they belong.

-L.

wrote in message ...
Yngver wrote:

Blaming breeders for the problem of cat
overpopulation is just ludicrous, and does
nothing to address the real problem.

I don't see where anybody has said that breeders are solely responsible
for the overpopulation problem. They certainly are a contributing
factor, and the unnecessary death of even one cat because of
displacement by a "purebred" is one too many. I don't care if all the
so-called breeds disappeared tomorrow if it meant that less cats were
killed. The life of a cat is inherently important to me. How the cat
looks is not.
These specious arguments about temperament and knowing the lineage, etc.
is nothing more than pretentious bull****.

Amen, sister.

-L.