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  #21  
Old November 19th 04, 06:07 AM
Marina
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Victor Martinez wrote:

I just told Tom that if his sister and her husband voted for the
anti-gay ammendment in their state's election, then they are not welcome
in our house. I'm sorry, but if you find my relationship so repugnant,
that you would vote to inscribe discrimination in your state's
constitution, then I do not want to welcome you into my house.


How sad that you have to deal with that in your own family. Purrs for
you both.

--
Marina, Frank and Nikki
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki
  #22  
Old November 19th 04, 06:13 AM
Jeanne Hedge
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 04:15:41 GMT, wrote:

Christina Websell wrote:



I can't see that being a racist and a bigot is right in any country. She
quotes the Bible at me. I told her that I didn't think God was a bigot.


Jesus was an open-minded, radical thinker who believed society should help
sick and poor people. He died for those opinions, which were threatening
to the powers of the time. And now there are people who, in his name, are
committing (or approving of) the very same atrocities he preached against.

It might be the end of our friendship.


How long were you friends, before all this started coming up? Did you ever
have disagreements before? Any sign that she was going to start trying to
convert you? Or is this a sudden change on her part?

Things have gotten very tense - and intense - around here. Bush's win has
emboldened the bigots - racists, but especially homophobics - to crawl
out from their slimy rocks and assert their "right" to deprive other people
of living their lives how they want to. They cram their religious agenda
down everyone's throat, and then whine that people make fun of them. How
would they like it if Islamic fundamentalists took over this country and
made all the women wear veils? It's not OK to use the political apparatus
to preach your gospel. Go to your place of worship for that.

Come to think of it, I had a nightmare last night that I'd gone away to
a school, and it turned out to be some sort of Christian fundamentalist
school. At some point, they were badgering the non-Christians to convert,
or be killed - and they had locked the place up so nobody could leave, kind
of like the Roach Motel. They hadn't gotten to me yet, and I was trying to
figure out a way of slipping under their radar. It was creepy!


Look what's been happening since the elections to Senator Specter of
Pennsylvania, and he's a moderate Republican!

I've been trying to find the quote online and can't so I'll have to
paraphrase. The leader of one of the fundamentalist conservative
religious organizations said that Specter had to be gotten rid of (and
they *did* use the words "get rid of") because he was in the way of
their agenda. And Senator Frist (the Senate majority leader) is
listening to this guy, and others like him! (Bush has been listening
to them for years)

And then when Senator Santorum (Pennsylvania's quite *conservative*
Republican senator) publically supported Specter's right to be his own
guy, they started going after him too!

These people won't stop until everyone does what they want how they
want when they want because obviously they know what's best for
everyone.






Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

============
http://www.jhedge.com
  #23  
Old November 19th 04, 06:13 AM
Jeanne Hedge
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 04:15:41 GMT, wrote:

Christina Websell wrote:



I can't see that being a racist and a bigot is right in any country. She
quotes the Bible at me. I told her that I didn't think God was a bigot.


Jesus was an open-minded, radical thinker who believed society should help
sick and poor people. He died for those opinions, which were threatening
to the powers of the time. And now there are people who, in his name, are
committing (or approving of) the very same atrocities he preached against.

It might be the end of our friendship.


How long were you friends, before all this started coming up? Did you ever
have disagreements before? Any sign that she was going to start trying to
convert you? Or is this a sudden change on her part?

Things have gotten very tense - and intense - around here. Bush's win has
emboldened the bigots - racists, but especially homophobics - to crawl
out from their slimy rocks and assert their "right" to deprive other people
of living their lives how they want to. They cram their religious agenda
down everyone's throat, and then whine that people make fun of them. How
would they like it if Islamic fundamentalists took over this country and
made all the women wear veils? It's not OK to use the political apparatus
to preach your gospel. Go to your place of worship for that.

Come to think of it, I had a nightmare last night that I'd gone away to
a school, and it turned out to be some sort of Christian fundamentalist
school. At some point, they were badgering the non-Christians to convert,
or be killed - and they had locked the place up so nobody could leave, kind
of like the Roach Motel. They hadn't gotten to me yet, and I was trying to
figure out a way of slipping under their radar. It was creepy!


Look what's been happening since the elections to Senator Specter of
Pennsylvania, and he's a moderate Republican!

I've been trying to find the quote online and can't so I'll have to
paraphrase. The leader of one of the fundamentalist conservative
religious organizations said that Specter had to be gotten rid of (and
they *did* use the words "get rid of") because he was in the way of
their agenda. And Senator Frist (the Senate majority leader) is
listening to this guy, and others like him! (Bush has been listening
to them for years)

And then when Senator Santorum (Pennsylvania's quite *conservative*
Republican senator) publically supported Specter's right to be his own
guy, they started going after him too!

These people won't stop until everyone does what they want how they
want when they want because obviously they know what's best for
everyone.






Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

============
http://www.jhedge.com
  #24  
Old November 19th 04, 06:18 AM
Yowie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Yoj" wrote in message
. com...
"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:
It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot

tolerate a
racist and bigot. She thinks she is right, and I think I am right.


Racism and bigotry are never right. Never. They have always been used

as
an excuse to opress the minority (and sometimes even a weak majority)

by
those in power.
I just told Tom that if his sister and her husband voted for the
anti-gay ammendment in their state's election, then they are not

welcome
in our house. I'm sorry, but if you find my relationship so repugnant,
that you would vote to inscribe discrimination in your state's
constitution, then I do not want to welcome you into my house.
As an aside, the bible has been used throughout history to justify and
defend many horrible things, from the crusades to slavery in the US

and
the oppresion of women.

--
Victor Martinez


It's really had to have such bigotry in your own family, or its
equivalent. You're right about the Bible. It can be, and has been,
used to prove and/or justify just about everything. :-(


Which is a shame, because if you boil the message it all down, the theme of
the second half at least is "love each other like I love you "(ie, be
excellent to each other and party on dudes). Whether or not you believe the
Bible to be anythign from the literal word of the Ultimate Deity to just
another book, its hard to argue with a message that calls us all to love
each other equally (IMHO, anyway)

Its also a shame that a friendship can't cope with a bit of disagreement.
There are people here whose views are not my own on any number of different
things (from as far-reaching as poitics and religion to the silly things
like fruit and vegetable preferences), but I would still be happy to call
them friends - and good friends atthat. Here and there, I've even had
friendly discussions about our different views. I mean, I'm just as stupid
and pigheaded about my hot-buttons as anyone is about theirs, but if two (or
more) people value their friendship there are ways of dealing with differing
opinions. I don't think your so-called friend had much respect for your
friendship, but perhaps it was not built on the most solid foundations
anyway.

Yowie

  #25  
Old November 19th 04, 06:18 AM
Yowie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Yoj" wrote in message
. com...
"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:
It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot

tolerate a
racist and bigot. She thinks she is right, and I think I am right.


Racism and bigotry are never right. Never. They have always been used

as
an excuse to opress the minority (and sometimes even a weak majority)

by
those in power.
I just told Tom that if his sister and her husband voted for the
anti-gay ammendment in their state's election, then they are not

welcome
in our house. I'm sorry, but if you find my relationship so repugnant,
that you would vote to inscribe discrimination in your state's
constitution, then I do not want to welcome you into my house.
As an aside, the bible has been used throughout history to justify and
defend many horrible things, from the crusades to slavery in the US

and
the oppresion of women.

--
Victor Martinez


It's really had to have such bigotry in your own family, or its
equivalent. You're right about the Bible. It can be, and has been,
used to prove and/or justify just about everything. :-(


Which is a shame, because if you boil the message it all down, the theme of
the second half at least is "love each other like I love you "(ie, be
excellent to each other and party on dudes). Whether or not you believe the
Bible to be anythign from the literal word of the Ultimate Deity to just
another book, its hard to argue with a message that calls us all to love
each other equally (IMHO, anyway)

Its also a shame that a friendship can't cope with a bit of disagreement.
There are people here whose views are not my own on any number of different
things (from as far-reaching as poitics and religion to the silly things
like fruit and vegetable preferences), but I would still be happy to call
them friends - and good friends atthat. Here and there, I've even had
friendly discussions about our different views. I mean, I'm just as stupid
and pigheaded about my hot-buttons as anyone is about theirs, but if two (or
more) people value their friendship there are ways of dealing with differing
opinions. I don't think your so-called friend had much respect for your
friendship, but perhaps it was not built on the most solid foundations
anyway.

Yowie

  #26  
Old November 19th 04, 06:20 AM
Marina
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Christina Websell wrote:

This is an example:
Andy Rooney said on "60 Minutes" a few weeks back:

snip masses of bigotted drivel

All this makes me so thankful to be living where I am. Our (female)
president used to be the chair of the society for sexual equality (the
national gay organisation in Finland), same-sex marriage has been made
legal during her time in office, she wasn't a member of any church when
she was elected, though she did join when she became president. She
wasn't married to her live-in boyfriend when she was elected (actually
they lived in different flats in the same building), though she married
him soon after. I think this country must be pretty open-minded and
unbiased to elect someone like her for pres. Oh, and she has two cats! )

--
Marina, Frank and Nikki
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki
  #27  
Old November 19th 04, 06:20 AM
Marina
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Christina Websell wrote:

This is an example:
Andy Rooney said on "60 Minutes" a few weeks back:

snip masses of bigotted drivel

All this makes me so thankful to be living where I am. Our (female)
president used to be the chair of the society for sexual equality (the
national gay organisation in Finland), same-sex marriage has been made
legal during her time in office, she wasn't a member of any church when
she was elected, though she did join when she became president. She
wasn't married to her live-in boyfriend when she was elected (actually
they lived in different flats in the same building), though she married
him soon after. I think this country must be pretty open-minded and
unbiased to elect someone like her for pres. Oh, and she has two cats! )

--
Marina, Frank and Nikki
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki
  #28  
Old November 19th 04, 06:23 AM
Sherry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot tolerate a
racist and bigot. She thinks she is right, and I think I am right.
I can't see that being a racist and a bigot is right in any country. She
quotes the Bible at me. I told her that I didn't think God was a bigot.
This is hard for me. We have been friends, and we are falling out about
Bush. That was the first thing. I'll never compromise about the other
racism and homophobic stuff.
It might be the end of our friendship.

Tweed

Gee, Tweed, I don't know. If it were me, I'd probably write off the friendship.
I don't think I could compromise on the racism and homophobia at all. If it
were just a matter of politics, it'd be workable. I have a dear friend with
whom I *cannot* discuss politics. Ever. She still tries to bring it up, esp. at
election time, I just remind her I'm not gonna discuss it.
A Bible-quoting racist/bigot, even. That really blows my gourd. You're response
to her was right!

Sherry

Sherry
  #29  
Old November 19th 04, 06:23 AM
Sherry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot tolerate a
racist and bigot. She thinks she is right, and I think I am right.
I can't see that being a racist and a bigot is right in any country. She
quotes the Bible at me. I told her that I didn't think God was a bigot.
This is hard for me. We have been friends, and we are falling out about
Bush. That was the first thing. I'll never compromise about the other
racism and homophobic stuff.
It might be the end of our friendship.

Tweed

Gee, Tweed, I don't know. If it were me, I'd probably write off the friendship.
I don't think I could compromise on the racism and homophobia at all. If it
were just a matter of politics, it'd be workable. I have a dear friend with
whom I *cannot* discuss politics. Ever. She still tries to bring it up, esp. at
election time, I just remind her I'm not gonna discuss it.
A Bible-quoting racist/bigot, even. That really blows my gourd. You're response
to her was right!

Sherry

Sherry
  #30  
Old November 19th 04, 06:28 AM
Marina
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jeanne Hedge wrote:

Look what's been happening since the elections to Senator Specter of
Pennsylvania, and he's a moderate Republican!

I've been trying to find the quote online and can't so I'll have to
paraphrase. The leader of one of the fundamentalist conservative
religious organizations said that Specter had to be gotten rid of (and
they *did* use the words "get rid of") because he was in the way of
their agenda. And Senator Frist (the Senate majority leader) is
listening to this guy, and others like him! (Bush has been listening
to them for years)

And then when Senator Santorum (Pennsylvania's quite *conservative*
Republican senator) publically supported Specter's right to be his own
guy, they started going after him too!

These people won't stop until everyone does what they want how they
want when they want because obviously they know what's best for
everyone.


That sounds really scary and totalitarian. Purrs that you all survive to
the next election!

--
Marina, Frank and Nikki
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki
 




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