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  #51  
Old August 18th 05, 07:34 PM
Dan M
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No, America is obsessed with ligitation, or fear of litigation. Every time
someone so much as sneezes out of place, they're slapped with a lawsuit.
Well that's how it appears to us over here in the UK anyway.

It's like speed limits, they say you have to keep your speed below 30mph
in case you hit a child. What the hell is the child doing in the middle of
the road in the first place..? Don't their parents educate them..?

Ivor


I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US the answer to that
question is "No". They trust in the schools to educate their kids, train
them in how to behave, teach them common sense, etc. My perception is that
the vast majority of US parents don't educate their kids.

Not even in the importnat stuff, like how to treat cats properly.

Dan
  #52  
Old August 18th 05, 08:30 PM
Enfilade
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It really is most common (and recommended) in the US to keep cats
indoors, or at least in outdoor enclosures.


Our four are all indoors-only. Kumani and Tyche were raised indoors
from age 3 weeks on. Nocturne has shown no desire to go outside.
Smokey, who used to be a feral, actively /hates/ outside, so much that
he runs away from open windows and the balcony doors, crying and
screaming in distress.

The way I see it, a cat is not a child. She does not understand "stay
in the yard" nor does she obey shouted orders (like "look out for that
car!").

I believe that it is a pet owner's responsibility not to let their
animals, dog or cat, roam around at large where they can foul the
neighbour's lawns, upset neighbours, attack other pets, etc.

Furthermore, it is also a pet owner's responsibility not to allow their
animals into dangerous situations, and IMHO, outside (with cars, dogs,
coyotes, cougars/bobcats, and sicko humans) is a dangerous place.
Would you let your child go to the park alone in an area where you know
child molesters lived? That's why I won't let my cats out in an area
where I know coyotes live.

Now, if your cat is indoors-only, then it is your responsibility that
they get proper exercise, have toys and get playtime to keep them
stimulated and engaged and active, have open windows and the occasional
walk to get fresh air, etc.

--Fil

  #53  
Old August 19th 05, 12:22 AM
shortfuse
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I agree, Fil....
"Enfilade" wrote in message
ups.com...

It really is most common (and recommended) in the US to keep cats
indoors, or at least in outdoor enclosures.


Our four are all indoors-only. Kumani and Tyche were raised indoors
from age 3 weeks on. Nocturne has shown no desire to go outside.
Smokey, who used to be a feral, actively /hates/ outside, so much that
he runs away from open windows and the balcony doors, crying and
screaming in distress.

The way I see it, a cat is not a child. She does not understand "stay
in the yard" nor does she obey shouted orders (like "look out for that
car!").

I believe that it is a pet owner's responsibility not to let their
animals, dog or cat, roam around at large where they can foul the
neighbour's lawns, upset neighbours, attack other pets, etc.

Furthermore, it is also a pet owner's responsibility not to allow their
animals into dangerous situations, and IMHO, outside (with cars, dogs,
coyotes, cougars/bobcats, and sicko humans) is a dangerous place.
Would you let your child go to the park alone in an area where you know
child molesters lived? That's why I won't let my cats out in an area
where I know coyotes live.

Now, if your cat is indoors-only, then it is your responsibility that
they get proper exercise, have toys and get playtime to keep them
stimulated and engaged and active, have open windows and the occasional
walk to get fresh air, etc.

--Fil



  #54  
Old August 19th 05, 12:33 AM
Alison
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wrote in message
oups.com...
First let me say I'm not being antagonistic, I'm just interested in

the
(apparent) culture difference between the US & the UK as regards our
feline friends.
[..]
It's interesting, do you think it's a cultural thing? How long

have
people in the US been doing these things? Perhaps it's not the

general
population, just people in cat groups As I say, I wasn't saying
that either way is right, it's just interesting how people do things
differently.

Marcia
Lord Otis's slave and minder


This makes an interesting read about the differences .
http://www.messybeast.com/indooroutdoor.htm

I think you'll find that more people in the UK are keeping cats
inside (as opposed to inside/outside)and perhaps less cats are kept
inside in North America than you would think from reading forums and
newsgroups.
I believe every situation is different and cats can be contented kept
inside. Kim has daytime outside access if she wants and spends most of
her time in the back garden in the summer and goes out very little in
the winter.
Alison


  #55  
Old August 19th 05, 12:51 AM
Alison
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"Phil P." wrote in message
...


. An

outdoor cat lives a more stressful life than an indoor cat.


Not necessarily. It depends on the circumstances.

If you know a little about cats, and if you're sensitive to your

cat's
needs, you can provide your cat with a rich, happy, healthy, and

safe life
indoors.


Yes you can

Phil





  #56  
Old August 19th 05, 01:04 AM
MaryL
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"Enfilade" wrote in message
ups.com...

It really is most common (and recommended) in the US to keep cats
indoors, or at least in outdoor enclosures.



--Fil


Well stated (and good analogy with child molesters)!

MaryL


  #57  
Old August 19th 05, 02:50 AM
claudel
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"Phil P." wrote in message
...


. An

outdoor cat lives a more stressful life than an indoor cat.


In my neighborhood the outdoor kitties reach 150Lbs

That's probably why Bubba likes to stay inside.


Claude
  #58  
Old August 19th 05, 03:14 AM
Roberta Bagshaw
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Here in Australia, there is a large proportion of the human population that
sadly regard cats as vermin! Cats (being an introduced species) are truly
superb killing machines, and can have a devastating effect on the native
wildlife. Also, here in Australia there are few native animals that would
challenge a fully grown cat. The only thing that has killed a cat of mine
over the years has been a bite from a venomous snake!

So, in order to keep native wildlife (especially our unique birds and rare
and endangered marsupials) relatively safe, we have personally attempted to
keep our cats in our backyard, (one of ours will insist of jumping the fence
to check out the neighbours yard),

We ALWAYS (that is without fail!) call them indoors late afternoon and they
are locked in the house for the night (when cats generally do most of their
environmental damage). Also, by keeping our cats locked in at night, we
ensure that our cats are not inflicting damage on the wildlife, and they are
not in danger from attack from other (feral) cats or from road traffic etc.

Needless to say we have a policy of having our cats sterilized, so that we
can at least rest in the knowledge that we are not contributing towards the
HUGE urban problem of unwanted, uncared for and homeless animals.
--
Roberta Bagshaw (Sec.)
Friends of the RSPCA Geraldton Auxiliary
Western Australia
email:




"Karen" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Well I don't think we should have pets and keep them in prison if they
don't want to stay in. Mine goes out in the summer and its safe, if it
wasn't safe I guess I wouldn't have got a cat, I'd have got a goldfish.


The problem over here is if you went by that rule a huge percentage of the
population would not have cats and there would be a worse homeless problem
than now. I live in a fairly large city and still late at night you can
see
predators in town, especially towards the edges. We have a big rural
population and so you would nix out all those people. I mean, it's just
not
the same thing. Now I persoanlly grew up with indoor outdoor cats and I
sure
wish mine could be, but I don't own a house. We don't have the kind of
enclosed gardens you guys have either. Certainly apartment dwellers have
no
garden or yard, so then you would whack out a whole other part of the
population from having cats. Does that seem practical?




  #59  
Old August 19th 05, 03:41 AM
badwilson
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cardkitty wrote:
My little Siega loves to go outside.. but we only let her when we

are
out too. Here in Arizona, sometimes our concrete porch (and often
even the dirt) will be too hot for her feet (of course she doesn't
believe us 'til she trys it for herself.) Plus, after being outside
for a little while she starts to chew on some of the grasses and
weeds. Yeah, then she either chocks on it then spits it out or gets

a
little sick. She still hasn't figured that one out so we just watch
her while we're out.


Kathryn


Cats are supposed to eat grass, it's normal. They eat it because then
they puke it up. It helps with their hairballs. My cat Vino is
indoor only and I grow grass in pots for him to eat. Sometimes I let
him out in the yard for a few minutes, supervised. The first thing he
does is gobble up as much grass as he can. I take him back inside and
he pukes it up. A bit of a mess to clean up but I don't mind because
I know it's good for him.
--
Britta
"There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." -- Unknown
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album





  #60  
Old August 19th 05, 04:31 AM
Dr.Carla,DVM
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Sure. Here are a couple articles from veterinarypartner.com concerning
vaccine associated soft tissue sarcomas (VASTS) in cats.
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...A&S=0&C=0&A=42

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...&S=0&C=0&A=526
"Ivor Jones" wrote in message
...


"Dr.Carla,DVM" wrote in
message news:1PPMe.35682$084.17489@attbi_s22
Oh and before I get off my soap box, I forgot, indoor
only cats don't need vaccinations unless they spend time
at kennels, etc. Vaccinations in cats have been shown to cause VASTS
(vaccine associated soft tissue sarcomas) or tumors. Its
not clear yet which part of the vaccines are causing this
terrible outcome. There is a new safer rabies shot for cats, ask your vet
about it next time you go for vaccinations.


One of the great advantages of living in the UK is we don't have rabies.
We also don't have coyotes and other predators that seem to roam all over
the USA (I've never seen a coyote in San Francisco, but I'm willing to
accept they may be there..!) so our cats have a far less stressful outdoor
life.

For my part, if I were unable to allow a cat outdoors through risk of
predators or any other reason, I simply wouldn't have a cat. I would not
move into accommodation where a cat was not permitted. If I *were* forced
to live somewhere where indoor only cats were permitted, I would make sure
to choose one from a rescue shelter that was *known* to be content with
such a life. I would also give priority under those circumstances to a cat
with FIV, which I would be reluctant to allow out anyway in case an
encounter with another cat passed on the infection.

I have never heard of this VASTS you mention, could you give a site with
more information, please..?

Ivor




 




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