Now that most of the shock has worn off....

wrote:
Jane wrote:

The boss claimed that I didn't know my job well enough. Anyone who
actually *works* with me says that he's a liar and it's a bogus
charge. I'm contract, he's government, so there's no chance of
fighting it. They are talking about outsourcing the data center, and
this may be just the first in a long line of unfair firings just so
the government doesn't have to pay severance.

That's it, then. They're saving money by treating you like dirt. Ugh!!
At least you know it's not your fault, if that helps at all.

One thing I don't understand, though, is that if their official reason
for letting you go is a "layoff", then how do they get out of paying
severance?

I don't think there's any law that an employer MUST pay "severance", is
there? A lot of things (like time-and-a-half for overtime, etc.) only
applied to union employees, when the unions were strong. (Of course, in
those days, MOST employers conformed, because no one would TAKE a job
that didn't, union shop or no.)

MaryL wrote:

"Jofirey" wrote in message
...

The reasons are legal. You have to treat everyone the same in the
situation or get sued by anyone you single out.

Jobs I've had, it would only take seconds to take client lists etc if
allowed back at your desk. I'm sure a computer could be messed up
nearly as quickly.

Jo


Unfortunately, that pretty well sums it up. It is unusual to do this
without any advance notice, but even that is becoming more common. The
only time I saw that happen is when the head of the computer department
was fired. He was permitted to go back to his office for his personal
items, but only with a security officer accompanying him. There were
apparently concerns that damage could be done very quickly to the
computer system.

Apparently people nowadays are more "revenge" motivated than they used
to be! Time was that normal people would never have considered
sabotage, even if they were not too shocked at the sudden termination to
even think that far.

MaryL

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in
:



outsider wrote:
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in
:

Another casualty of our "downsizing" economy, perhaps? However the
White House tries to "tweak" the statistics, huge quarterly losses,
industry closing more and more plants and branch offices, and
thousands of workers (in nearly all fields) being laid off does NOT
indicate an economic "boom". (And cutting welfare payments and
veteran's benefits


We treat our vet horribly and it is unforgivable.





I assume you meant that facetiously? (I didn't see a smiley, but
obviously.......)

I was


Actually, it's not so much the situation as the
willful blindness I was criticizing, although the war in Iraq has a
lot to do with our present economic woes.



I agree

hopitus wrote:

I was surfing the news online and came across this job-loss article...
perhaps we could learn something from it?

http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/career-arti..._you_fired-427

What I have learned from this is that business can do what it wants with
its employees. Workers are more disempowered than ever in this country.
The labor movement has no teeth anymore. And with a only a handful of
exceptions, the unions are just another layer of management - one that
the employees have to pay for, at that.

I can understand the issue of confidentiality, in terms of company
technology or information. If someone has been found giving out that
kind of information, then I agree it's grounds for dismissal, since
that is a direct threat to the company. And the person doing it knows
it, too.

I think it's absurd that a company would feel threatened because an
employee posts about controversial topics, that are totally unrelated
to company business, on the net. It should be illegal to fire someone
because of that, especially if the activity is completely unrelated
to work. People should be able to live their lives as they please, as
long as they're not breaking laws or doing harm.

That said, and the situation being what it is, it's good to post in
public forums using a pseudonym, something I didn't start doing until
recently. Also, as far as I remember, I have never posted the actual
name of the company I work for. (If my memory is faulty on this, and
someone googles a post where I did post my employer's name, *please*
don't repost it here! It would be bad enough if I did it once!)

--
Joyce

To email me, remove the triple-X from my user name. ^..^

Kreisleriana wrote:

The most important bullet point was this one, IMO:
"Don't disclose. You don't have to disclose lifestyle choices or
off-the-clock activities unless there is a clear link to your ability to
perform the job, Secunda said."

Ah yes - Don't Ask Don't Tell. This is saying "stay in your closet".
I don't agree with this. There is a risk in coming out (whatever you
are coming out about), but for a lot of people, those risks are
necessary. So let's not go overboard about telling people they have
to shut up about who they are. I just think people should be informed
about the risk, and understand the reality, so they can decide whether
it's worth it to them to be open about themselves.

--
Joyce

To email me, remove the triple-X from my user name. ^..^

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:

MaryL wrote:

The
only time I saw that happen is when the head of the computer department
was fired. He was permitted to go back to his office for his personal
items, but only with a security officer accompanying him. There were
apparently concerns that damage could be done very quickly to the
computer system.

Apparently people nowadays are more "revenge" motivated than they used
to be! Time was that normal people would never have considered
sabotage, even if they were not too shocked at the sudden termination to
even think that far.

That and the fact that computers make sabotage so much easier. Widespread
damage at your fingertips, if you know how to do it.

Which reminds me of this quote:

"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other
invention, with the possible exceptions of handguns and Tequila."
-- Mitch Ratcliffe

Mistakes, and also revenge, apparently.

--
Joyce

To email me, remove the triple-X from my user name. ^..^

On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:30:34 -0700, Lesley wrote:

On Jul 5, 5:31Â*pm, "jmcquown" wrote:
Â*I worked in I.T. and while I could
have done some damage I couldn't have done it without taking a few
minutes to write a Unix script and uucp it to all the servers. Â*Not
something you can do if you don't have advance notice.

Someone I know who shall remain nameless was treated appallingly by a
company he worked for he had a little programme written and curled up
inside the mainframe and whenever they called him to a meeting he
activated it and when he got back to his desk he could de-activate
it...one day they sacked him (he had strong grounds for an unfair
dismissal case but these things cost money) and they escorted him out of
building.

Several months later at a random date (but picked so it wasn't going to
affect the other employees pay days)...the whole system collapsed.....

I don;t usually condone this sort of thing but.....in that case I'll
make an exception

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

Of course, that sort of "logic bomb" can lead to fines or even a jail
term if the authorities can prove who put it in place. So, the cost of
revenge can be fairly high.

--
John F. Eldredge --
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

"John F. Eldredge" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:30:34 -0700, Lesley wrote:

On Jul 5, 5:31 pm, "jmcquown" wrote:
I worked in I.T. and while I could
have done some damage I couldn't have done it without taking a few
minutes to write a Unix script and uucp it to all the servers. Not
something you can do if you don't have advance notice.

Someone I know who shall remain nameless was treated appallingly by a
company he worked for he had a little programme written and curled up
inside the mainframe and whenever they called him to a meeting he
activated it and when he got back to his desk he could de-activate
it...one day they sacked him (he had strong grounds for an unfair
dismissal case but these things cost money) and they escorted him out of
building.

Several months later at a random date (but picked so it wasn't going to
affect the other employees pay days)...the whole system collapsed.....

I don;t usually condone this sort of thing but.....in that case I'll
make an exception

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

Of course, that sort of "logic bomb" can lead to fines or even a jail
term if the authorities can prove who put it in place. So, the cost of
revenge can be fairly high.

--
John F. Eldredge --
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

My thoughts exactly. That sounds like a trojan horse or something similar.
It's sabotage -- and although it might "feel good," it's clearly illegal
(and in this case, would probably be very easy to trace).

MaryL

"hopitus" wrote in message
...
On Jul 6, 3:51 pm, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
wrote:
MaryL wrote:

"Jofirey" wrote in message
...

The reasons are legal. You have to treat everyone the same in the
situation or get sued by anyone you single out.

Jobs I've had, it would only take seconds to take client lists etc if
allowed back at your desk. I'm sure a computer could be messed up
nearly as quickly.

Jo

Unfortunately, that pretty well sums it up. It is unusual to do this
without any advance notice, but even that is becoming more common. The
only time I saw that happen is when the head of the computer department
was fired. He was permitted to go back to his office for his personal
items, but only with a security officer accompanying him. There were
apparently concerns that damage could be done very quickly to the
computer system.

Apparently people nowadays are more "revenge" motivated than they used
to be! Time was that normal people would never have considered
sabotage, even if they were not too shocked at the sudden termination to
even think that far.



MaryL

I believe people are flat-out fed up. They are smarter and see Big
Bidness (the
Shrub's expression) for what it is...too many huge companies have
literally or
figuratively given us the finger. Last straw is losing your job w/o
warning. But
there are little signs, if you keep your ears and eyes
open....recently the
huge CA corp. that owns the hospital I worked at last in FL before I
moved
sold it to a nearby well-subsidized religious-owned bigger hospital.
All the
employees of my former employer must now *apply*to get hired by the
biggie one taking over. I saw that coming 4 years ago, before I left.
Bottom
line to the corp. is this: is it making big bucks for us? If not, bye
bye.
Due to economy, hospitalized patients frequently either have no
insurance
or cannot pay for their stay.....

I spent two days in the hospital in January. I have good insurance, but my
out-of-pocket expenses were more than $1,500. When I went in to pay that
bill and paid the whole thing, the woman at the billing desk said, "That
leaves you with a $0.00 balance." It's hard to explain her reaction, but
she seemed both surprised and delighted. That whole exchange surprised me,
but I guess I didn't fall into the "norm."

MaryL

On Jul 6, 8:13*pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER
wrote:
"hopitus" wrote in message

...





On Jul 6, 3:51 pm, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
wrote:
MaryL wrote:

"Jofirey" wrote in message
...

The reasons are legal. *You have to treat everyone the same in the
situation or get sued by anyone you single out.

Jobs I've had, it would only take seconds to take client lists etc if
allowed back at your desk. *I'm sure a computer could be messed up
nearly as quickly.

Jo

Unfortunately, that pretty well sums it up. *It is unusual to do this
without any advance notice, but even that is becoming more common. *The
only time I saw that happen is when the head of the computer department
was fired. *He was permitted to go back to his office for his personal
items, but only with a security officer accompanying him. *There were
apparently concerns that damage could be done very quickly to the
computer system.

Apparently people nowadays are more "revenge" motivated than they used
to be! *Time was that normal people would never have considered
sabotage, even if they were not too shocked at the sudden termination to
even think that far.

MaryL

I believe people are flat-out fed up. They are smarter and see Big
Bidness (the
Shrub's expression) for what it is...too many huge companies have
literally or
figuratively given us the finger. Last straw is losing your job w/o
warning. But
there are little signs, if you keep your ears and eyes
open....recently the
huge CA corp. that owns the hospital I worked at last in FL before I
moved
sold it to a nearby well-subsidized religious-owned bigger hospital.
All the
employees of my former employer must now *apply*to get hired by the
biggie one taking over. I saw that coming 4 years ago, before I left.
Bottom
line to the corp. is this: is it making big bucks for us? If not, bye
bye.
Due to economy, hospitalized patients frequently either have no
insurance
or cannot pay for their stay.....

I spent two days in the hospital in January. *I have good insurance, but my
out-of-pocket expenses were more than $1,500. *When I went in to pay that
bill and paid the whole thing, the woman at the billing desk said, "That
leaves you with a $0.00 balance." *It's hard to explain her reaction, but
she seemed both surprised and delighted. *That whole exchange surprised me,
but I guess I didn't fall into the "norm."

MaryL- Hide quoted text -

I was mildly surprised to find out that if you make a few phone calls,
and ask if there's
a "discount" for paying in full within 30 days. the answer was "yes"
all the way around.
Ten percent. Definitely worth the phone call. OUr yearly out-of-pocket
is $2,000, which means
that no matter what happens, we will never pay more than $2,000 in one
year. So, 10% was
a quick $200 just for asking.
Sherry

Sherry