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Can You Tell Normal From INSANE Behavior?
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HOWEDY RPL,
rpl wrote: A good portion of this post consists of me snipping at you about details in order to avoid confusion in further posts. Good. Let's get down to seriously examining and questioning the authority which confounds what we're all after through diametrically opposed philosophies e.g. "learning theory, alpha theory, operant / classical / pavlovian conditioning, allelomimetic (copying) behavior, pack / family heirarchy, reinforcement / punishment Vs effective scientific non physical psychological conditioning and desensitization via Ericsonian Freudian techniques. The words don't matter, just the principles which are articulated in the "scientific" definitions which may be TOTALLY misunderstood in non scientific parlance yet clear to the non scientific reader. Therefore let's not whip a dead horse with THEORY when we've got SCIENTIFIC DATA proving both sides, how and why they work or fail and their EFFECTIVENESS quotient. I didn't come here to make friends but that's not out of the question seein as ONLY WON of us can be right and THAT will make the other WON GRATEFUL to benefit from this learnin experience. wrote: HOWEDY rpl, rpl wrote: read your "book", Well thank you, rpl. For what ? For having the integrity to READ the text which SCARES your pals who warn folks not to read it because it's all lies and plagiarism and dangerous cruel and it don't work and that I'm a liar and make things up, for starters. can't say as I disagree with the parts that are relevant to general pet ownership. You can't disagree with ANY parts or the whole would fall apart and IT WOULD FAIL. Again you're crossing a line that hasn't been drawn. Well then, let's DRAW THE LINE. WON CANNOT VIOLATE the scientific method to suit your whims and fears or individuality otherWIZE the METHOD WILL FAIL, just as IT WILL FAIL if you do not RESPECT ALL of the principles and philosophies as THAT IS the method. (keep reading) Let's both. I haven't read ahead but JUST THE FACT that we're talkin calmly and rationally are a breakthrough for both of us and will be a REVELATION to those readers who are totally confounded by the magnitude of what's goin on. I'm no less SENSITIVE than you or anyWON else. We both can be mistaken about "things" like having been "CRUEL" in our own ways hurting mostly ourselves in the process just like a parent punishing a child may justify it by saying "this will hurt me more than you, but it's for your own good". Look at my pryor posting in those terms and we'll SEE the %iles YOUR METHODS get Vs what will happen when MY methods are correctly employed UNLESS THERE'S A PATHOLOGY goin on, and then we need a shot of anti- psychots to break the cycle of defenses and rationalization which have bee thouroughly instilled just like the conditional reflex only MORE DEEPLY INGRAINED with CONSISTENT PERSISTENT VARIABLY REINFORCED REPRESSION PAIN FEAR DENIAL WITHHOLDING and REWARDS! IOW, total DISRESPECT for "unconditional love trust and respect." Of curse, the response is always "well what do you want us to do when the critter is about to maul the baby?" Well, the ANSWER ALWAYS IS, INCONSISTENCY is the BANE of the scientific method. One of the problems you'll face in adapting that to cat ownership is that most cat owners don't want or need a formally trained cat, Don't matter. All you gotta do is apply the PRINCIPLES and do as many of the techniques you're able to adapt to your critter regardless of its species. I just said that ("can't say as I disagree..."). Just wanted to be very clear. We're talkin about all sentinent beings, even FISH. They respond even FASTER perhaps because they're curious gregarious and just lookin for a friend. I don't mind being argued with but try for some consistency. That's paramount to the method, ALL of the methdos, which is WHY when a "method" suggests VIOLATING itself to suit the INDIVIDUAL, we got the bane of sciences. thus there's no obedience-framework You can train a 100% reliable come command in 10 minutes if you follow the instructions. You can train your kat They're called "cats" not "kats". If you are *not* referring to "felis domesticus" speak up. It's all the same same. Let's call them Cat Fish. to go in ten minutes. If you can train ANY critter to INSTANTLY COME and INSTANTLY go you can TOTALLY CON- TROLL them by simply asking them to come and go and they'll spin in circles like Little Black Sambo Unless there's some purpose other than "because I can", The puporse is the 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CON-TROLL. then that's abuse That's curious, ain't it. Total non physical control is ABUSE, yet occasionally JERKING CHOKING BANISHING BRIBING DUMPING and MURDERING innocent critters is NORMAL. You're not the first to scream that obscenity here. And there ya go, another "condidtional reflex" jumpin out of it's bag at you for makin ME get SENSITIVE. It's just that it's beyond the realm of REASON that anyWON can think sayin that is a truly caring parent. Wouldn't you LOVE to be able to achieve such a state of CON-TROLL over your loved WONS as to be able to keep them SAFE while still NOT REPRESSING them causing them to stiffle curiousity and experimentation and self expression? Don't forget, in some circles animal studies are STILL RELIED UPON to set standards for human treatments and test THEORIES and PROVE LAWS of behavior because animals don't ANTHROPOMORPHIZE their responses based on their human expectations, they're working on instinct, reflex and pryor conditioning. and does not reinforce (ie: keep consistent) the cat's trust. That's absurd. Installing a "come and go" command as a conditional reflex got NUTHIN to do with VIOLATING TRUST. Trust is the ONLY THING protecting us from triggering their WILD INSTINCT. The cat or dog *should* come when called when trained to do so, No, he MUST. JUST AS YOUR CHILD MUST. Only BETTER. *but* as much as possible should be aware of the reason that you've called it, The RESON is IRRELVENT. "Because I SEZ SO" always works for mommy and daddy. DON'T IT. Besides, we're working with CONDITIONAL REFLEX, so the RESON got NUTHIN to do with ANY behaviors we're addressing. IN FACT, the behaviors ARE SYMPTOMS and the REASONS are EXXXCUSES for NOT BEING ABLE to CONDITION those CHOICES the critter is making. The SCIENTIFIC METHOD is NO RESPECTOR of the INDIVIDUAL, except as it applies to individual SPECIES' physical limits and traits. to reinforce trust for future requests from you. By the timd the critter GETS to you he's FORGOTTEN WHY. Therefore calling for no reason is not a good reason There's EVERY GOOD REASON TO DO SO. (outside of initial training). Inasmuch as ANY conditioning will DETERIORATE it should be refreshed as soon as ANY command or shall we say REQUEST fails to be carried out the FIRST TIME it's asked. Though I do note you said "can", not "should"... okay. If we "can" do things in keeping with the METHOD then we SHOULD DO THOSE THINGS if for nuthing else, to FOSTER the METHODOLOGICAL CONDITIONING, i.e., the GESTALT or, the WHOLE of the rigid, unforgiving non confrontational method. and their behavior problems will turn to butter like that tiger done in the book. BEAUSE ALL BEHAVIORS ARE THE SAME SAME SAME SAME. grin I ain't read that in *decades*... Yeah. Sambo was SMART! probably a banned book these days. Who cares? Breed specific theories are the same. A dog is a dog as a child is a child and it don't matter if we're talking kats dogs horses tortises or fruit flies. to explicitly place good-behaviour reinforcement Good point. THAT'S a "learning theory" fallacy. snip No, it's a language difference; We don't argue LANGUAGE we DISCUSS the SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR, not PREFERENCES and OPINIONS. We're gonna LEARN to love trust and respect WON another EVEN IF IT KILLS us TO DO IT. Of curse, DON'T FORGET, "this IS gonna hurt me more than it will you" so to speak. So let's ENJOY where we're goin, cause WON of us is gonna burn in heel if that's what they PREFER. I'm not up on "trainer vocabulary", RIGHT. It's ALL HOKUM! Dr. Von sez it using the scientific researchers's own case histories and outlined the progression of behavioral terms. I meant reinforcement as being simply repetition; You mean ROTE. That's the SLOWEST MOST INEFFICIENT method of all, beause the CONTEXT has not been learned. It's kinda like filing your programs systems in the computer in different locations so when you need to run a program you gotta look through all the files to find the .EXE to open what you got. the critter gets used to acting that way. You mean habit. Force of habit can be brokin in a couple moments of counter conditioning. Conditioning will not be dissuaded by force of habit when pupperly installed as REFLEX. I hope you don't have to clean up any of my previous references to that. Let's not argue semantics, the behaviors and terms are all the same same same same HOKUM. What you and me and ALL the readers are interested in is CURING ALL TEMPERMENT and BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS NEARLY INSTANTLY. How we arrive at THAT is irrelevent. "Whatever works". snip rewards/bribes/positive/negative reinforcement Only time I've used a "bribe" is in a quick'n'dirty method of getting kitty to start using the scratching post by sprinkling catnip on it for a few days. Well that's not really a bribe then, you gave it willingly with no strings attached, despite that you had HOPES that it would achieve your training objective. Theoretically you could click treat train her to unknowingly unwittingly incontextually go over and claw the post but it'd take half your natural life, Vs using DEMONSTRATION or ALLELOMIMETIC behavior and CONTEXTUAL conditional reflex to direct the kitty to do the scratch post with zeal, knowing she's been sent on a MISSION to attack the post like she'd snatch a mouse. Common issues in "catworld" include: IRRELEVENT. ALL temprament and behavior problems snip I've snipped those of your answers which were ignorant or that I felt were posted strictly to the dog groups. You don't get it. The BEHAVIORS ARE A SYMPTOM not the PROBLEM. The behaviors are IRRELVENT when all we got to do is CONDITION THEM as taught. The list is of issues, not necessarily behavioural problems. The ONLY ISSUE IS: "Is There A Science Of Behavior". This is me telling you something so you can avoid unintentionally causing animals to be injured through your ignorance. Yes, that's the same argument those same folk who WORRY that I'm makin an AUTOMATON of the critter by TEACHING HIM to THINKIN IN CONTEXT and respond to commands as condtional reflex through non physical non confrontational techniques. IOW, that's the PATHOLOGY speakin, RPL. Think of it as an ADDICTION, because IT IS. You've been CONDITIONED to REFLEX to states of mind. declawing JUST SAY NO. The problem for already MUTILATED kats is simply to PRAISE THEM just like for any other behavior problem. declawing is an owner ignorance problem. It (can) cause behavioural problems in cats. NO. IT CAN'T. Despite my sayin to the CONTRARY. Those "behavior problems" caused by declawing are the SAME BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS caused by the MISHANDLING which PROVOKED the declawing or SURGICAL MUTILATION to force CON-TROLL of NORMAL NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE behaviors which are EZily overcome compensated for and EXXXTINGUISHED by UNCONDTIONAL LOVE TRUST and RESPECT. IMNSHO, acceptable alternatives are directing the cat's scratching routines to a scratching post or That's ALMOST CORRECT. THAT'S WHY these behaviors are NOT EXXXYTINGUISHED and IF ANY THING, are only CHANGED to other, often worse, seemingly non related TRAINsfer behaviors or ANXIETY RELIEF MECHANISMS. Think the laws of physics: E=Mc2. hormone-based behaviour NO. You AIN'T gettin away with blaming snip Cats "in heat" and "on the prowl" You mean they're AFFECTIONATE. are *very* much more intense than dogs. The DOG won't agree. A female cat in heat is a soon-to-be pregnant cat. Only if she ESCAPES. We CAN successfully train a cat not to leave the perimeter of his yard JUST LIKE a dog, maybe even FASTER. An intact male will literally camp out at an in-heat queen's doorstep for days on end. Like a hungry WON. There are other issues such as spraying in males No there AIN'T, not insofar is indoor spraying. (which can be diverted but it isn't easy on the nose for the first month or so and no matter what every once in a while... Well then, you'll CERTAINLY appreciate being ABLE to EXXXTINGUISH that behavior IN WON DAY. goddam that stuff stinks). I hate it worse than chemical mace. And of course that makes him the prospective daddy of any kittens in the area. NO PROBLEMO. Males are also inclined to "go walkabout" NOT if they're PERIMETER TRAINED. YMMV whether you can put up with that as an owner. My feelings in the matter are that you can, Why would you? HOWEsbreaking problems are CAUSED by MISHANDLING, not TESTICLES. but there's the next issue. neutering Surgical sexual mutilation makes critters FEARFUL and MISTRUSTFUL. I imagine it does. Well them, if it weren't for MISHANDLING and POOR MANAGEMENT practices surgical sexual mutlation of male cats would have NO REDEEMING VALUE, would it. The issue unfortunately is societal in nature. Well then, open your doors and let your critters choose to RETURN TO NATURE. You can't say that because the kat does X that you GOT TO ACCEPT IT because THAT would be INCOINSISTENT with the SCIENTIFIC METHOD. WOULDN'T IT. Cats hormone levels ARE IRRELEVENT. If there's a PATHOLOGY we can address it through effective use of biochemical and herbal treatments. cause them to breed at *much* greater than replacement level. If you're apupriately training and controlling your kat he AIN'T GONNA BE roving the streets indiscriminately procreating. Perhaps that's sumpthin we should strive for with our kids? improper toilet etiquette That's about the MOST UNNATURAL occurence WON could imagine, other than OPPOSITE SEX AGGRESSION in family pack critters or sibling rivalry. You'll notice that the EXXXPERTS EXXXPECT and TOLERATE their own critters PUNISHING EACH OTHER's behaviors. That's UNCONSCIONALBLE LOATHESOME DESPICABLE UNCARING UNTHINKING CRUEL SELFISH SADISTIC human behavior, RLP. THAT'S CAUSED BY MISHANDLING unless the snip It *can* be caused by mishandling; It could also be caused by a BRAIN TUMOR or frontal / paralell lobotomy. more often it's a more normal cause; THERE AIN'T NO NORMAL REASON for FHOWELING their own HOWES, RPL, it's INNATE INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE BEHAVIOR, it's about the first thing critters learn. UNLESS they're SICK or VERY UNHAPPY. the cat objects to something RIGHT! That's why we NEVER CONFLICT with them. that the owner is not aware of IF WE NEVER CONFLICT with them they'll NEVER HAVE a behavior they OBJECT TO. or is really objecting to something. AS STATED. Or as you noted it can be a symptom of a Urinary Tract Infection. RIGHT. Traditional WIZEdom sez to take the critter to the vet at first onset of new inapupriate behaviors. WHY? If we can CURE that PROBLEM in WON DAY then the VET would be a WASTE of TIME EFFORT and MONEY. If we CAN'T CURE a ****ing / sprayin problem in WON DAY then the critter is EITHER VERY SICK or YOU AIN'T FOLLOWIN THE METHOD PRECISELY. One of my "girls" will produce a puddle on the floor if I don't personally take her out for a walk around the neighbourhood at least once a week. That's a neurotic behavior variably reinforced by your efforts to correct it. I take the easy way out; I take her out for a walk. RIGHT. INSTEAD of lettin her follow through with her passive aggressive behavior and briefly and NON PHYSCIALLY non confrontationally alternately variably distract and INSTANTLY PRAISE and allow the behavior to resume so you can EXXXTINGUISH IT nearly instantly. Then when you offer a walk it'll be an UNEXPECTED REWARD therefore it CANNOT BE UNINTENTIONALLY WITHHELD resulting in aggression: "Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVERY LEARNING THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected reward not received is experienced as a punishment and can produce extensive and persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)." Not surprisingly we been TALKIN ABOUT THAT in a couple of threads this week, the kat attacking his owner when he goes near her feed bag. spraying snip, right idea wrong dictionary "If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them, you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." Chief Dan George, is marking territory; NOT inside their own lair. it can be caused by a number of things NOT IF WE GOT 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CON-TROLL. including neighbourhood cats IRRELEVENT. that make faces at your cat while she sits in the window looking out, or (the one I previously mentioned) Simply PRAISING him will EXXXTINGUSISH HIS FEARS. a cat that's jealous of your computer, SAME SAME. PRAISE IN ADVANCE AND DISTRACT AND PRAISE ANY SYMPTOMS OF ANXIETY. or as you mentioned, anxiety which causes the cat to reinforce his/her ownership/territory. Right. THAT'S WHY we DON'T DO THAT no more. Not generally an everyday occurrence but not unusual. You can EXXXTINGUISH THAT NEARLY INSTANTLY. If you DON'T, your kat will manifest OTHER temperament and behavior and physical heelth problems like FUS or mange or yeast ear infections seizures and OCD'S like self mutilation. Intact male cats of course simply go around spraying everything That's ABSURD. unless you can convince them that spraying somewhere else is a good idea. Spraying is a SYMPTOM OF ANXIETY caused by MISHANDLING: "...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov "It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in deviant behavior of children can be achieved through brief, simple educative routines with their mothers which modify the mother's social behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child (Szrynski 1965). A large number of cases improved sufficiently after preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment of children was required, and almost ALL cases SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy. Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)." Hairballs/puking: THAT TOO, IS CAUSED BY ANXIETY. can't do much about that except brush the cat regularly and make sure it's eating right. Anxiety causes EXXXCESSIVE SHEDDING and self grooming (an inwards self satisfying behavior much like professor dermer's little dog's couch pillow humping). Indoor vs. Outdoor Very much to do with the environment. Outside is the same same, they're AFRAID of terrortorial aggression. My DDR CURES THAT, thereby further PROVING EVERY THING I'VE taught. None of which are exactly similar to "dogworld"; IRRELEVENT. snip advertisement... You mean THIS?: From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." To: Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM Subject: Doggy advice Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below. I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything. I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very competent at living with dogs. I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about dogs doing this and that, for example: whining, humping, hunching, pacing, self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking, spinning, prolonged barking, barking at shadows, overstimulated barking, fighting, bullying other dogs, compulsive digging, compulsive scratching, compulsive chewing, frantic behavior, chasing light, chasing shadow, stealing food, digging in garbage can, loosing house (toilet) training. inappropriate fearfulness aggression. The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of the intervening time working with animals (including the human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related). You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans. As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving care. George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate, Academy of Behavioral Medicine is that (DDR) a commercial product ? Yes. what is it ? It's a high frequency constant intermittent non physical praise in advance state conditioning device, the same same as Eeg NeuroBiofeedback training, ONLY BETTER, done AUTOMAGICKALLY which PROVES EVERY THING we've been talking about, independent of ANY human interaction. most quite different. IRRELEVENT: snip list of dog behavioural problems and an attestment That's what we all CASE HISTORY DATA or FORENSIC EVIDENCE. Umm...your entire "Part II" is actually a reprint of some guy/gal named Moore ? If you'd like to believe so, that's certainly less harmful than believing what you had been used to thinking. so.... you're worried about this guy coming after you with copyright issues then ? Are you serious or are you trying to derail the DISCUSSION? Yeah I'm sort of kidding, Well, that's a lot like DEAD BABY JOKES. I was reasonably sure it was you're typing but not enough to be absolutely sure. O.K., I deserved that WON, too. I note that you don't tackle "edge cases", Cut the psychobabble crap. OK. that doesn't help the person getting mauled by the neighbour's pit bull. You mean EFFECTIVE NON PHYSICAL SCIENTIFIC METHODS DO NOT WORK when the subjec it SCARED snip You don't handle the "in case you're being *seriously* attacked by an animal" scenario. All depends on the OUTCOME you PREFER. We can use the bunny in the doggy's mouth, the apple core in the DEAD DOGGYS mouth or we can use the fighting cock / dog ring or we can use Croc Hunter Steve Irwin's beautiful demonstration of positive thigmotaxis, the opposition reflex when he accidentally stuck his hand into the mouth of a 9' gator in his pond. GIVING UP is the OUTCOME that WINS with NO HARM. UNLESS the critter is fixin to EAT YOU. Most animal attacks on humans got NUTHING to do with FOOD, it's all FEAR and TERRORTORIAL. My take I posted, though I can see where some people would warp that to include cats that are playing or cats that you've ****ed off. The SYMPTOMS are IRRELEVENT. They'll keep you PLAYIN GRAB ASS with the phantazmoagoria of BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS instead of EFFECTIVE SOLUTIONS. After long reflection I would consider if the pain wasn't clouding my mind, trying to sound like a cat in deep distress to get it to stop, before giving up and smacking it. Good point. You mean giving up and smacking it when your normal natural reflexive SHRIEKING IN PAIN and FEAR fails to change the attacker's mind. WE USE THAT TECHIQUE IN ATTACT TRAINING. Therefore, smacking was NOT a REFLEX, it was a CONSIDERED APUPRAITE CURE for the kat's FEAR BEHAVIOR. E.g., YOUR HUMAN NATURE. OtherWIZE you'd RELAX like Steve done and that kat would GIVE UP and let you return to the CONDITINING PROCESS so we don't have to do that again. But every time you REFLEX to the attack with screaming crying and slapping or otherWIZE intimiating it will only JUSTIFY HIS FEARS and INCREASE aggression. Thankyou. Thank you, RPL. We could be making history. Or submerging my arm in a bathtub full of water, That'll heelp, of curse. ANY thing to DISRACT and PRAISE the thoughts when we lift the curtain and take a peek of what we fear most will certainly heelp. Next time we take offense to what each other are sayin, just picture yourself asleep with that hand in a tub of warm water and keep that relaxed state of mind while we suss out the TRUTH and LEARN TO REFLEX to IT rather than our pryorconditioning. though that's not likely to be available. We can stimulate that same thought even more reliably than we could in real life. Think of the REALITY of a nightmare. Your ridiculing of the subject does nobody any good. You're right, of curse. it's not that, it's that it doesn't do animals any good, either. Well then, we're all glad to know we both have the same agenda and now all we gotta do is iron out the application of the scientifically proven formulaes, RPL. pat Yours, Jerry: pat Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue writes: I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it has helped my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior problems. snip etc. more attestments All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. -Arthur Schopenhauer "Thank you for fighting the fine fight-- even tho it's a hopeless task, in this system of things. As long as man is ruling man, there will be animals (and humans!) abused and neglected. :-( Your student," Juanita. Jerry Howe, Director of Research, Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory, BIOSOUND Scientific, Director of Training, Wits' End Dog Training 1611 24th St Orlando, FL 32805 Phone: 1-407-425-5092 Here's the ONLY RULES you need: ALL Temperament and Behavior Problems And 90% Of DIS-EASE Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING. THAT'S GOOD! THAT MEANS We can CURE ALL Temperament And Behavior Problems And 90% Of DIS-EASE NEARLY INSTANTLY Simply By DOING EXXXACTLY, PRECISELY, OPPOSITE Of HOWE We've Been TAUGHT By UNIVERSITY TRAINED Behaviorists ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( |\ _.-'~~""'~`'~) /, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--'' |,4) ./ ' ; ;/' '-~~;'@ ( ; ; _.--'' _.-_..' .;.' (,_..----''' (,..--'' Meow /),,/) ( ' ; ') (,,)-(,,) /),,/) (' ; ') kiss me (,,)-(,,) /),,/) ( ; ' ) kiss me here (,,)-(,,) /),,/) ( ; ) kiss me here (,,)-(,,) /) ( * ) and KISS ME HERE! (,,)-(,,) The Amazing Pussy Wizard {@); ~ } http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY. IT AIN'T PRETTY. {@); ~ } |
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Upscale wrote:
"rpl" wrote in message wrote: Congratulations. You're excessive rhetoric and comments to puppy whizzer has qualified you as a minor troll. You're filtered just like all the other garbage. just imagine my sorrow. |
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