OMG! One more reason to NOT declaw...

It's an intricate
operation that requires time, detail, a host of equipment and supplies.
I'd be surprised that many break even on that one.

It's the insinuation that vets are in it for the money that gets me. I wish.
Can't even begin to tell you how much we have given away in products and
services. House calls on lunch half hours, calls all night. It certainly
isn't about the money, that's for ssure. At least not in our house. Ask my
kids.

-Sharon

In , "Sharon"
wrote:

| Okay. Why not offer numbers? How many cats does your practice declaw,
| as a percentage of total cats treated, every year?
|
| I don't know! I don' travel home with those statistics on a daily basis.

But surely you have some idea, if you're going to insist on the truth of
your assertion. Or maybe you haven't really been following your records
and you're just guessing what you'd simply like to have be true?

| All I can tell you, and you have to trust me on this, is that very few
| cats are declawed at our practice each year.

But what is very few? 1%? 2%? 5%? 10%?

| Would you care to offer an estimate anyway?
|
| Getting those figures is more complicated than I can explain here from
| home.

So, you aren't prepared to guess? I wonder why not.

| I beg your pardon? It's money for something that need not be done at
| all. Gravy.
|
| The few that we do give us no reasonable profit at all.

The vets would never go for this, but assertions like this are testable
on a statistical basis. For instance, a random sample of the AVMA
membership could have their books analysed on a double-blind basis, by
cost accountants and statisticians.

| Like what?
|
| I gave one very recent cse on the other thread on the other newsgroup
| you said you read.

The elderly lady with diabetes? What was wrong with someone - say, a
tech from your practice - dropping in - say, either to or from work or
whenever convenient - every couple of weeks or so to trim the cats
claws? If she was housebound and somewhat disabled by her condition
anyway, she would probably need someone coming in anyway. For all sorts
of things. Even a competent pet sitter in the neighborhood could drop
in for all of the five minutes it would take to trim claws, and then
maybe help the lady with other chores.

I think the real story is that the elderly lady somehow convinced
herself - perhaps she had poor friends? - that she "needed" the cat
declawed, and you caved in.

| We say no every single day.

Apparently not, because on some days at least you declaw.

| Forget it. You canot even stand to think that there are some cses
| that exist outside your scope.

There are no cases. How does the rest of the world manage, or is it
that you think they don't - and you don't give a rat's ass for such
ethical niceties anyway, here in the great U.S. of A.?

| Forget the fact that I have agreed over and over in general, just
| that there can be exceptions.

Oh right. You're waiting for a law to make the exceptions go poof.

To evade an issue of ethical *principle*.

In , "Sharon"
wrote:

| Okay. Why not offer numbers? How many cats does your practice declaw,
| as a percentage of total cats treated, every year?
|
| I don't know! I don' travel home with those statistics on a daily basis.

But surely you have some idea, if you're going to insist on the truth of
your assertion. Or maybe you haven't really been following your records
and you're just guessing what you'd simply like to have be true?

| All I can tell you, and you have to trust me on this, is that very few
| cats are declawed at our practice each year.

But what is very few? 1%? 2%? 5%? 10%?

| Would you care to offer an estimate anyway?
|
| Getting those figures is more complicated than I can explain here from
| home.

So, you aren't prepared to guess? I wonder why not.

| I beg your pardon? It's money for something that need not be done at
| all. Gravy.
|
| The few that we do give us no reasonable profit at all.

The vets would never go for this, but assertions like this are testable
on a statistical basis. For instance, a random sample of the AVMA
membership could have their books analysed on a double-blind basis, by
cost accountants and statisticians.

| Like what?
|
| I gave one very recent cse on the other thread on the other newsgroup
| you said you read.

The elderly lady with diabetes? What was wrong with someone - say, a
tech from your practice - dropping in - say, either to or from work or
whenever convenient - every couple of weeks or so to trim the cats
claws? If she was housebound and somewhat disabled by her condition
anyway, she would probably need someone coming in anyway. For all sorts
of things. Even a competent pet sitter in the neighborhood could drop
in for all of the five minutes it would take to trim claws, and then
maybe help the lady with other chores.

I think the real story is that the elderly lady somehow convinced
herself - perhaps she had poor friends? - that she "needed" the cat
declawed, and you caved in.

| We say no every single day.

Apparently not, because on some days at least you declaw.

| Forget it. You canot even stand to think that there are some cses
| that exist outside your scope.

There are no cases. How does the rest of the world manage, or is it
that you think they don't - and you don't give a rat's ass for such
ethical niceties anyway, here in the great U.S. of A.?

| Forget the fact that I have agreed over and over in general, just
| that there can be exceptions.

Oh right. You're waiting for a law to make the exceptions go poof.

To evade an issue of ethical *principle*.

Brandy wrote:
Sharon, ignore my post directed at year
and deflect to the others. I misread your
"inflections"

On the contrary, your first post directed at Sharon was right on target.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Brandy wrote:
Sharon, ignore my post directed at year
and deflect to the others. I misread your
"inflections"

On the contrary, your first post directed at Sharon was right on target.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

In , I wrote:

|| Forget it. You canot even stand to think that there are some cses
|| that exist outside your scope.
|
| There are no cases. How does the rest of the world manage, or is it
| that you think they don't - and you don't give a rat's ass for such
| ethical niceties anyway, here in the great U.S. of A.?

Oops, the time zone on your posts suggests that you might be in atlantic
seaboard Canada. The appropriate adjustments apply, if true.

In , I wrote:

|| Forget it. You canot even stand to think that there are some cses
|| that exist outside your scope.
|
| There are no cases. How does the rest of the world manage, or is it
| that you think they don't - and you don't give a rat's ass for such
| ethical niceties anyway, here in the great U.S. of A.?

Oops, the time zone on your posts suggests that you might be in atlantic
seaboard Canada. The appropriate adjustments apply, if true.

in article , BrandyÂ*Alexandre at
? wrote on 8/9/03 12:46 AM:

Karen Chuplis wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

Well you certainly *never* posted, despite repeated requests to
post just what it was you read in the full articles on declaw
complications that negated the percentages.

Karen


Well, she certainly doesn't have to, and the manner in which you ask
for the info has a great deal to do with someone's willingness to
comply and your deserving it.

She doesn't have to? And yet when I was asked to provide evidence by
reputable names, I did. But she's just allowed to say, "no. It isn't like
that." and avoid any support for the other side of the argument. Hmm. Talk
about Hypocrisy.

Karen

in article , BrandyÂ*Alexandre at
? wrote on 8/9/03 12:46 AM:

Karen Chuplis wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

Well you certainly *never* posted, despite repeated requests to
post just what it was you read in the full articles on declaw
complications that negated the percentages.

Karen


Well, she certainly doesn't have to, and the manner in which you ask
for the info has a great deal to do with someone's willingness to
comply and your deserving it.

She doesn't have to? And yet when I was asked to provide evidence by
reputable names, I did. But she's just allowed to say, "no. It isn't like
that." and avoid any support for the other side of the argument. Hmm. Talk
about Hypocrisy.

Karen

in article , Sharon at
wrote on 8/9/03 12:47 AM:

Well you certainly *never* posted, despite repeated requests to post just
what it was you read in the full articles on declaw complications that
negated the percentages.

Maybe because I thought you could do this for yourself. Why post the link if
you want me to cut and copy it to death.

The *links* are abstracts of the article results. *I* don't have access to
the articles and *I* admitted out of context could be taken differently.
*You* claimed to have read the articles after I posted (hubby is a vet and
must have a library, yes?) and claimed that the results are different if you
read the whole article and yet you would not provide ONE SINGLE piece of
evidence this is true. Avoidance if not outright evasion.


Karen - why the constant bullying? Huh? I know what your point is, for the
most part I respect it. But you ignore that and only tear me apart almost as
entertainment. I said it in another thread, people on these newsgroups are
stumped as to why the veterinarians usually don't post. I'm not.

-Sharon

I am not tearing you apart. I once again *invite* you to post proof that
those articles from the Journal of American Veterinary Medicine Asso. are
not being fairly quoted with a nearly 20% complication rate. That's it. Post
that evidence and I'll listen. BTW how did the fix on the botched declaw job
some vet did on that other cat that was set for Monday go for your husband?

Karen