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#42
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in article , Sharon at
wrote on 8/9/03 12:50 AM: Sharon, ignore my post directed at year and deflect to the others. I misread your "inflections" and as usual expected an attack upon me personally rather than the issue. They're good at that. No problem. Married to a vet and practice manager of our hospital, I'm not new to these topics, just to these newsgroups. I tried...... but I could say white and they would say... ya know ;-) -Sharon Yes, you like to tell us about your vet husband all the time. Yet you don't want to provide evidence that declawing is necessary (aside from ONE case of a diabetic old lady which cannot possibly be the reason behind every declaw in your practice. But you avoided THAT too). Karen |
#43
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in article , Sharon at
wrote on 8/9/03 12:50 AM: Sharon, ignore my post directed at year and deflect to the others. I misread your "inflections" and as usual expected an attack upon me personally rather than the issue. They're good at that. No problem. Married to a vet and practice manager of our hospital, I'm not new to these topics, just to these newsgroups. I tried...... but I could say white and they would say... ya know ;-) -Sharon Yes, you like to tell us about your vet husband all the time. Yet you don't want to provide evidence that declawing is necessary (aside from ONE case of a diabetic old lady which cannot possibly be the reason behind every declaw in your practice. But you avoided THAT too). Karen |
#44
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in article , Sharon at
wrote on 8/9/03 12:58 AM: It's an intricate operation that requires time, detail, a host of equipment and supplies. I'd be surprised that many break even on that one. It's the insinuation that vets are in it for the money that gets me. I wish. Can't even begin to tell you how much we have given away in products and services. House calls on lunch half hours, calls all night. It certainly isn't about the money, that's for ssure. At least not in our house. Ask my kids. -Sharon I never insuated it once. I only disagree it keeps cats in homes. That bothers you too. When I provided surveys that contradict this and asked why there are many declawed cats in shelters in that case you avoided the argument entirely. Karen |
#45
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in article , Sharon at
wrote on 8/9/03 12:58 AM: It's an intricate operation that requires time, detail, a host of equipment and supplies. I'd be surprised that many break even on that one. It's the insinuation that vets are in it for the money that gets me. I wish. Can't even begin to tell you how much we have given away in products and services. House calls on lunch half hours, calls all night. It certainly isn't about the money, that's for ssure. At least not in our house. Ask my kids. -Sharon I never insuated it once. I only disagree it keeps cats in homes. That bothers you too. When I provided surveys that contradict this and asked why there are many declawed cats in shelters in that case you avoided the argument entirely. Karen |
#46
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in article , Arjun Ray at
lid wrote on 8/9/03 1:20 AM: In , "Sharon" wrote: | Okay. Why not offer numbers? How many cats does your practice declaw, | as a percentage of total cats treated, every year? | | I don't know! I don' travel home with those statistics on a daily basis. But surely you have some idea, if you're going to insist on the truth of your assertion. Or maybe you haven't really been following your records and you're just guessing what you'd simply like to have be true? | All I can tell you, and you have to trust me on this, is that very few | cats are declawed at our practice each year. But what is very few? 1%? 2%? 5%? 10%? | Would you care to offer an estimate anyway? | | Getting those figures is more complicated than I can explain here from | home. So, you aren't prepared to guess? I wonder why not. | I beg your pardon? It's money for something that need not be done at | all. Gravy. | | The few that we do give us no reasonable profit at all. The vets would never go for this, but assertions like this are testable on a statistical basis. For instance, a random sample of the AVMA membership could have their books analysed on a double-blind basis, by cost accountants and statisticians. | Like what? | | I gave one very recent cse on the other thread on the other newsgroup | you said you read. The elderly lady with diabetes? What was wrong with someone - say, a tech from your practice - dropping in - say, either to or from work or whenever convenient - every couple of weeks or so to trim the cats claws? If she was housebound and somewhat disabled by her condition anyway, she would probably need someone coming in anyway. For all sorts of things. Even a competent pet sitter in the neighborhood could drop in for all of the five minutes it would take to trim claws, and then maybe help the lady with other chores. Which of course is true. But even *IF* this was considered necessary due to medical reasons that developed in the owner *what percentage* of declaws practiced at the office have a medical reason as in that case. Very few I imagine. Sharon also, when I asked what other similar cases were done, completely dropped that part of the thread. I think the real story is that the elderly lady somehow convinced herself - perhaps she had poor friends? - that she "needed" the cat declawed, and you caved in. | We say no every single day. Apparently not, because on some days at least you declaw. | Forget it. You canot even stand to think that there are some cses | that exist outside your scope. There are no cases. How does the rest of the world manage, or is it that you think they don't - and you don't give a rat's ass for such ethical niceties anyway, here in the great U.S. of A.? | Forget the fact that I have agreed over and over in general, just | that there can be exceptions. Oh right. You're waiting for a law to make the exceptions go poof. To evade an issue of ethical *principle*. |
#47
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in article , Arjun Ray at
lid wrote on 8/9/03 1:20 AM: In , "Sharon" wrote: | Okay. Why not offer numbers? How many cats does your practice declaw, | as a percentage of total cats treated, every year? | | I don't know! I don' travel home with those statistics on a daily basis. But surely you have some idea, if you're going to insist on the truth of your assertion. Or maybe you haven't really been following your records and you're just guessing what you'd simply like to have be true? | All I can tell you, and you have to trust me on this, is that very few | cats are declawed at our practice each year. But what is very few? 1%? 2%? 5%? 10%? | Would you care to offer an estimate anyway? | | Getting those figures is more complicated than I can explain here from | home. So, you aren't prepared to guess? I wonder why not. | I beg your pardon? It's money for something that need not be done at | all. Gravy. | | The few that we do give us no reasonable profit at all. The vets would never go for this, but assertions like this are testable on a statistical basis. For instance, a random sample of the AVMA membership could have their books analysed on a double-blind basis, by cost accountants and statisticians. | Like what? | | I gave one very recent cse on the other thread on the other newsgroup | you said you read. The elderly lady with diabetes? What was wrong with someone - say, a tech from your practice - dropping in - say, either to or from work or whenever convenient - every couple of weeks or so to trim the cats claws? If she was housebound and somewhat disabled by her condition anyway, she would probably need someone coming in anyway. For all sorts of things. Even a competent pet sitter in the neighborhood could drop in for all of the five minutes it would take to trim claws, and then maybe help the lady with other chores. Which of course is true. But even *IF* this was considered necessary due to medical reasons that developed in the owner *what percentage* of declaws practiced at the office have a medical reason as in that case. Very few I imagine. Sharon also, when I asked what other similar cases were done, completely dropped that part of the thread. I think the real story is that the elderly lady somehow convinced herself - perhaps she had poor friends? - that she "needed" the cat declawed, and you caved in. | We say no every single day. Apparently not, because on some days at least you declaw. | Forget it. You canot even stand to think that there are some cses | that exist outside your scope. There are no cases. How does the rest of the world manage, or is it that you think they don't - and you don't give a rat's ass for such ethical niceties anyway, here in the great U.S. of A.? | Forget the fact that I have agreed over and over in general, just | that there can be exceptions. Oh right. You're waiting for a law to make the exceptions go poof. To evade an issue of ethical *principle*. |
#48
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From: "Sharon"
-Sharon (vet-wifey who NEVER advocated routine declaws) So exactly what kind of declawing do you advocate? ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
#49
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From: "Sharon"
-Sharon (vet-wifey who NEVER advocated routine declaws) So exactly what kind of declawing do you advocate? ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
#50
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From: "Sharon"
I don't know! I don' travel home with those statistics on a daily basis. All I can tell you, and you have to trust me on this, is that very few cats are declawed at our practice each year. I've gone over this already and shouldn't have to do it again. Why declaw at all? ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
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