"TK" Had a checkup today....Not very good news.

"Nomen Nescio" ] wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

The vet found that he had a heart murmur, this evening. It wasn't
there in August. It's there now. My wife had tears in her eyes as
the vet was telling us and, honestly, I wasn't far away from tears
either. We lost our last cat to heart failure and it started with the
same news, heart murmur. But she was over 20 y.o., TK is only
around 2 (we think).

Oh no. But aren't murmurs in cats the same as they are in humans--
quite common and usually not dangerous? I am asking, not telling,
because I don't really know. At the very least, TK is younger and
therefore likely stronger than your older cat was. I am so sorry
you got bad news from the vet.

Needless to say, we are total wrecks tonight.
The checkup started on a bad note when the vet came in and
told us that TK had roundworms, again. We thought we got rid of
those a year ago. But she said that he could have a chronic worm
problem 'cause sometimes the parasite can move into soft tissue
and reappear. So I was concerned about that until she listened to
his heart, and was taking way too long doing it.
So here's the story. She rates the murmur at a 2 or 3 (scale of 6,
I believe). But sometimes cats can get a murmur when they're
under stress. TK was awfully stressed as he was either trembling
or shivering in the exam room (it was cold in there), and we had to
wait a while since they were running a little behind schedule. So the
vet wants to see him again in 3 weeks to check his heart and see
if there's still a murmur. He'll be her first patient of the day so we
should be able to go right from the car to the exam room and avoid
upsetting him for 45 minutes in a waiting room full of dogs. In the
meantime she wants him to have a baby aspirin (81mg) twice a
week as a precaution. If the murmur is still there, then we go to
x-rays and ultrasound.
TK acts healthy enough, running around the house at that "what
was that black, furry, flash that just went by?" speed. No shortness
of breath. I just can't believe he's developing heart problems.

Let's hope it really was just that he was upset. Keep all your thoughts
on that outcome.

We're trying to stay optimistic, but there's this awful feeling of
deja-vu from 4 years ago. That was when I swore I would never love
a cat again. Then TK showed up in the back yard last year and that
promise went "out the window".
Never asked for purrs and prayers before, but we could sure use a
couple now.

I'll keep you and your wife and TK in my prayers.

Thanks for being a "shoulder to cry on" for a while. IRL I've got people
fooled into thinking I'm a "tough guy". Here, I can be the "real" me.
And the "real" me is scared to sh*t, right now.


Listen, if I ever get back from the vet with bad news about my
little cats I will be the biggest basketcase ever. I have my whole
heart wrapped up in them. Try to think good thoughts. Some
people believe that if you visualize the results you want
coming toward you, every day, it helps bring the desired
outcome about. Sometimes I think that might have a bit
of truth in it, as fruitcake as that sounds.

"Nomen Nescio" ] wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

The vet found that he had a heart murmur, this evening. It wasn't
there in August. It's there now. My wife had tears in her eyes as
the vet was telling us and, honestly, I wasn't far away from tears
either. We lost our last cat to heart failure and it started with the
same news, heart murmur. But she was over 20 y.o., TK is only
around 2 (we think). Needless to say, we are total wrecks tonight.
The checkup started on a bad note when the vet came in and
told us that TK had roundworms, again.

SNIP

You have my purrs & prayers. I did a little reasearch on 'Natural' remedies
for heart problems in cats. Hawthorne berry, which is commonly used as a
human heart tonic, can also be used for cats. Use a glycerine based
tincture (available at your local healthfood store) 8 drops twice daily for
a cat under 15 lbs. Also, 10 mg daily of Coenzyme Q10 & feeding your cat
fish oil suppliments will both help.

As to the worms, does 'TK' spend any time outside? If your cat is hunting,
it's real easy to get re-infested. I'm having this issue with Chablis & my
vet reccomends de-worming every 2 months. As long as she's catching & eating
small creatures, I'll be battling worms. The pills cost pennies each & are
'fairly' easy to administer.

Good Luck! Keep us posted.
--
Mathew
Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat
En Vino Veritas

"Nomen Nescio" ] wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

The vet found that he had a heart murmur, this evening. It wasn't
there in August. It's there now. My wife had tears in her eyes as
the vet was telling us and, honestly, I wasn't far away from tears
either. We lost our last cat to heart failure and it started with the
same news, heart murmur. But she was over 20 y.o., TK is only
around 2 (we think).

I think my next step would be to get an echocardiogram/heart sonogram done -
to see exactly why the heart murmur's there. Your vet can refer you, to
have one done. That would allow for a more precise diagnosis & prognosis,
ones that would allow the vet(s) & you to figure out what treatment - if
any - would be necessary.

One of my cats - who's 13 & has had a heart murmur all of her life(AFAIK) -
just had a follow-up echo done. Showed exactly why the murmur's the tiny
hole in one atrium wall & mitral valves not closing in concert - both most
likely congenital, & showed the good news (no enlargement of the heart).
Plus gave us the heads-up on what to watch for, based on the findings. The
cost wasn't bad, either, IMO - $150; way upstate NY.

Cathy


Needless to say, we are total wrecks tonight.
The checkup started on a bad note when the vet came in and
told us that TK had roundworms, again. We thought we got rid of
those a year ago. But she said that he could have a chronic worm
problem 'cause sometimes the parasite can move into soft tissue
and reappear. So I was concerned about that until she listened to
his heart, and was taking way too long doing it.
So here's the story. She rates the murmur at a 2 or 3 (scale of 6,
I believe). But sometimes cats can get a murmur when they're
under stress. TK was awfully stressed as he was either trembling
or shivering in the exam room (it was cold in there), and we had to
wait a while since they were running a little behind schedule. So the
vet wants to see him again in 3 weeks to check his heart and see
if there's still a murmur. He'll be her first patient of the day so we
should be able to go right from the car to the exam room and avoid
upsetting him for 45 minutes in a waiting room full of dogs. In the
meantime she wants him to have a baby aspirin (81mg) twice a
week as a precaution. If the murmur is still there, then we go to
x-rays and ultrasound.
TK acts healthy enough, running around the house at that "what
was that black, furry, flash that just went by?" speed. No shortness
of breath. I just can't believe he's developing heart problems.
We're trying to stay optimistic, but there's this awful feeling of
deja-vu from 4 years ago. That was when I swore I would never love
a cat again. Then TK showed up in the back yard last year and that
promise went "out the window".
Never asked for purrs and prayers before, but we could sure use a
couple now.
Thanks for being a "shoulder to cry on" for a while. IRL I've got people
fooled into thinking I'm a "tough guy". Here, I can be the "real" me.
And the "real" me is scared to sh*t, right now.


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBQmSncpMoscYxZNI5AQGg5AP9FZYpEz0LUwFP5coR1S MwLJqODCj7EGjH
raT3BLZyfSATIKw28NRJl2Ex/aX8ZJ8+ihnbhJwbJKxG96RKL5FQCYJm6eGhoc+1
GSEJ6OhVQReU/i/Sy1AOTThNja/ggxdzHpBPUDez4S9uTeviJ9o0vmBczRJub3C1
udHO2lqZSeQ=
=RFsj
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

"Cathy Friedmann" wrote in message
...
One of my cats - who's 13 & has had a heart murmur all of her
life(AFAIK) -
just had a follow-up echo done. Showed exactly why the murmur's the
tiny
hole in one atrium wall & mitral valves

Let me clarify that - she does have only one mitral valve: the 2 flaps of
the mitral valve not closing at the same time!

Cathy

not closing in concert - both most
likely congenital, & showed the good news (no enlargement of the heart).
Plus gave us the heads-up on what to watch for, based on the findings.
The
cost wasn't bad, either, IMO - $150; way upstate NY.

Cathy


Needless to say, we are total wrecks tonight.
The checkup started on a bad note when the vet came in and
told us that TK had roundworms, again. We thought we got rid of
those a year ago. But she said that he could have a chronic worm
problem 'cause sometimes the parasite can move into soft tissue
and reappear. So I was concerned about that until she listened to
his heart, and was taking way too long doing it.
So here's the story. She rates the murmur at a 2 or 3 (scale of 6,
I believe). But sometimes cats can get a murmur when they're
under stress. TK was awfully stressed as he was either trembling
or shivering in the exam room (it was cold in there), and we had to
wait a while since they were running a little behind schedule. So the
vet wants to see him again in 3 weeks to check his heart and see
if there's still a murmur. He'll be her first patient of the day so we
should be able to go right from the car to the exam room and avoid
upsetting him for 45 minutes in a waiting room full of dogs. In the
meantime she wants him to have a baby aspirin (81mg) twice a
week as a precaution. If the murmur is still there, then we go to
x-rays and ultrasound.
TK acts healthy enough, running around the house at that "what
was that black, furry, flash that just went by?" speed. No shortness
of breath. I just can't believe he's developing heart problems.
We're trying to stay optimistic, but there's this awful feeling of
deja-vu from 4 years ago. That was when I swore I would never love
a cat again. Then TK showed up in the back yard last year and that
promise went "out the window".
Never asked for purrs and prayers before, but we could sure use a
couple now.
Thanks for being a "shoulder to cry on" for a while. IRL I've got
people
fooled into thinking I'm a "tough guy". Here, I can be the "real" me.
And the "real" me is scared to sh*t, right now.


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBQmSncpMoscYxZNI5AQGg5AP9FZYpEz0LUwFP5coR1S MwLJqODCj7EGjH
raT3BLZyfSATIKw28NRJl2Ex/aX8ZJ8+ihnbhJwbJKxG96RKL5FQCYJm6eGhoc+1
GSEJ6OhVQReU/i/Sy1AOTThNja/ggxdzHpBPUDez4S9uTeviJ9o0vmBczRJub3C1
udHO2lqZSeQ=
=RFsj
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Norman, sorry to hear that, but as I understand it, that is not too grave
and very often transitory, controllable, and not any kind of a death
sentence. I hope you have better news in a few weeks. I'm quite certain
there could be worse diagnosis and I'm sure others with experience will
chime in to help you out here. Keep your chin up. TK needs your positive
energy.

"Brandy Alexandre" wrote in message
news:1113942171.64513bb9c895ff3e9b900cacc402608b@t eranews...
Nomen Nescio ] wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

So here's the story. She rates the murmur at a 2 or 3 (scale of 6,
I believe).

Kami has had a level 2 heart murmur for YEARS. We have never done
anything about it--no meds, no nothing. The only concern we have about
it is her asthma stressing her heart and how much fluid she can get
sub-q. Other than that, a 2 is not a really big deal. Don't let the
vet con you into a jillion tests. Kami's never had more than the vet
listen and say, "Yep, it's a murmur."

Problem with that advice is, one being's murmur is not always another
being's murmur. Some are basically benign, while others aren't. I would
opt for an ultrasound to see what the cause of the murmur is, & if it's
having any adverse effect on the heart, or if it's a basically benign one.

Cathy

"Nomen Nescio" ] wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: "Mary"

I'll keep you and your wife and TK in my prayers.

Thanks. I do appreciate it.

Some
people believe that if you visualize the results you want
coming toward you, every day, it helps bring the desired
outcome about. Sometimes I think that might have a bit
of truth in it, as fruitcake as that sounds.

Unfortunately, as an engineer, I'm a trained pessimist. I tend
to think things out from the worst outcome to the best.

I do too. Still ...

"Nomen Nescio" ] wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

The vet found that he had a heart murmur, this evening. It wasn't
there in August. It's there now.

So here's the story. She rates the murmur at a 2 or 3 (scale of 6,
I believe). But sometimes cats can get a murmur when they're
under stress. TK was awfully stressed as he was either trembling
or shivering in the exam room

Before you start worrying about the worst, have him checked again when,
hopefully, he'll be a little calmer. Excited and frightened cats have
increased heart rates which increases the velocity of the blood flow
which can cause turbulence and a resulting murmur.

You might also want to have him checked for anemia. Anemia decreases blood
viscosity. Also, the stroke volume increases to make up for decrease in the
oxygen-carrying RBCs. The combination of decreased viscosity and increased
velocity can easily produce turbulence and a murmur *without* having any
actual heart disease.

Also, sometimes murmurs disappear when the position of the cat's body is
changed.

If there's any trace of a murmur when he's re-examined, I would strongly
recommend an echocardiogram.

Best of luck,

Phil

"Nomen Nescio" ] wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: "Cathy Friedmann"

I think my next step would be to get an echocardiogram/heart sonogram
done -
to see exactly why the heart murmur's there. Your vet can refer you, to
have one done. That would allow for a more precise diagnosis &
prognosis,
ones that would allow the vet(s) & you to figure out what treatment - if
any - would be necessary.

That will be one of the next steps if TK still has the murmur at the next
visit. That can be done at the vet's office. She also suggested x-rays and
an ekg to get a full picture of the situation.

Sounds like a good game plan, to me.

One of my cats - who's 13 & has had a heart murmur all of her
life(AFAIK) -
just had a follow-up echo done. Showed exactly why the murmur's the
tiny
hole in one atrium wall & mitral valves not closing in concert - both
most
likely congenital, & showed the good news (no enlargement of the heart).
Plus gave us the heads-up on what to watch for, based on the findings.

That's good to hear. You must have been VERY relieved to find that out.

Yes. :-) It was also quite fascinating: the vet who did the echo explained
everything to me as she went along; I could see on the screen exactly what
she was talking about.

Cathy


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBQmXVa5MoscYxZNI5AQG/qwQAgBHFd1o1XE91p/GC4HuEvYsMSja/yyk3
1Wt4SFftt11ez1KR7mW7niPCbCuXW9X4k5/luw6GZYj8MDdGq92rSiDeYw0WRTjU
qmpRqKxwi+Ndf6phPSMFVTwpyNMEeMjfGsu59kphLmYealCDQU YN8wTBxzhrkqM6
tLML0WaggY0=
=AXJF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

"Nomen Nescio" ] wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: "BrandyáAlexandre"
snipped
No vet has suggested further tests to me, so I
guess it depends where the murmur is.

I'm not sure how a vet can tell the difference,

When I took Demelza (cat with lifelong murmur) for her recent
echocardiogram, the vet said that she could hear ther murmur on two sides
when she did the initial exam. So when she was doing the sonogram, she was
looking for the reasons - & found them - the tiny atrium wall hole, & the
mitral valve flaps not working in perfect concert (one lags behind the
other, in closing).

Cathy

but in your case, I
can't argue with the results. Kami seems to be doing pretty good
for an old girl. 17 if I remember correctly.