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#282
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In article ,
enlightened us with... Yeah, but "wrong is wrong" is a morality issue. That is a subjective issue with no proofs, thus you really can't convince someone of it. Kind of like all sensitive topics, including eating meat, abortion, religion, etc, everyone has their own views. When trying to argue for a particular view, it is generally easier to convince someone of something when you give them facts and when you use an argument involving cultural similarity. However, the cultural similarity issue was completely lost on many of the participants. Yeah, but there are some universal truths. Like murder and maiming are just wrong. I don't buy the "everything is perception" cop out. That's okay, you don't have to. I'm not even getting started on this topic. I'd never get any work done. *G* ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Why do people who know the least know it the loudest? If that cell phone was up your a$$, maybe you could drive a little better! http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- |
#283
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In article ,
enlightened us with... Yeah, but "wrong is wrong" is a morality issue. That is a subjective issue with no proofs, thus you really can't convince someone of it. Kind of like all sensitive topics, including eating meat, abortion, religion, etc, everyone has their own views. When trying to argue for a particular view, it is generally easier to convince someone of something when you give them facts and when you use an argument involving cultural similarity. However, the cultural similarity issue was completely lost on many of the participants. Yeah, but there are some universal truths. Like murder and maiming are just wrong. I don't buy the "everything is perception" cop out. That's okay, you don't have to. I'm not even getting started on this topic. I'd never get any work done. *G* ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Why do people who know the least know it the loudest? If that cell phone was up your a$$, maybe you could drive a little better! http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- |
#284
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In article ,
enlightened us with... kaeli wrote in In article , enlightened us with... If toes are all the same, why aren't dogs routinely declawed? Dogs, cats, and humans all have bones in their toes. Sorry if that's news to you. Because they don't use their claws the same way cats do. You mean they don't scratch? No, I mean they don't use their claws the same as cats do. Cats scratch much differently than dogs, or hadn't you noticed? Of course they do. They can cause more damage with their claws than a cat. They scratch the furniture when they make a "bed", they dig holes in yards, they scratch people just by jumping on them. Um, a trained dog does none of these things. A trained cat must still scratch something. Do I really need to explain that to you or were you being purposefully disingenuous? There are many reasons why people want their dogs declawed. If vets did everything their clients asked, there would be declawed dogs running around. There's a reason that surgery isn't done. What reason might that be? Declawing a cat does damage to the cat. Declawing a dog would do damage as well. Since one may damage a cat, why not a dog? ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Why do people who know the least know it the loudest? If that cell phone was up your a$$, maybe you could drive a little better! http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- |
#285
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In article ,
enlightened us with... kaeli wrote in In article , enlightened us with... If toes are all the same, why aren't dogs routinely declawed? Dogs, cats, and humans all have bones in their toes. Sorry if that's news to you. Because they don't use their claws the same way cats do. You mean they don't scratch? No, I mean they don't use their claws the same as cats do. Cats scratch much differently than dogs, or hadn't you noticed? Of course they do. They can cause more damage with their claws than a cat. They scratch the furniture when they make a "bed", they dig holes in yards, they scratch people just by jumping on them. Um, a trained dog does none of these things. A trained cat must still scratch something. Do I really need to explain that to you or were you being purposefully disingenuous? There are many reasons why people want their dogs declawed. If vets did everything their clients asked, there would be declawed dogs running around. There's a reason that surgery isn't done. What reason might that be? Declawing a cat does damage to the cat. Declawing a dog would do damage as well. Since one may damage a cat, why not a dog? ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Why do people who know the least know it the loudest? If that cell phone was up your a$$, maybe you could drive a little better! http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- |
#286
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another tree hugger speaks
"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message ... Sherry wrote: I am not going to apologize for helping my sister get booger declawed. This was an unusual case of a cat that tended to swipe more than any cat I've ever known... It will also protect the adults. K. "Protecting the adults." Yeah. You're doing more dancing than Michael Jackson now. And the more you post, the more it becomes apparent you, or your family, should never have cats at all. Twenty cats on a back porch does not a rescuer make. You don't understand cats. You don't seem to have much sense *or** compassion for the species at all. The defanging remark you make was the icing on the cake. You're painting a picture and expecting us to believe this cat is comparable to a bobcat or something. This poor cat is, in my opinion, probably traumatized and abused, and protecting itself. That's what I was thinking. And again, I wouldn't let a child of that age play with a *mellow* cat unsupervised, lest it pull its tail or fur and the cat lash out in pain - which is something even people do reflexively sometimes without meaning to - so why was a cat already known to be agressive allowed anywhere *near* enough to the child to do that? Not to mention, as I've said before, because the owner apparently didn't bother to try and speak to the vet or a behaviorist about the underlying cause (at least, nothing was said about them ever having sought alternatives to the 'easy answer' of declawing), the cat will still be aggressive, probably even more so, only will now likely resort to teeth instead of claws. You seem not to understand the ramifications when you say the surgery will not matter to a cat kept indoors; it affects the cat's ability to walk comfortably, without muscle aches, and can often cause muscle atrophy and skeletal problems, not to mention psychological trauma to the animal. Your saying this cat 'deserved' to be declawed shows an attitude of vengance that is inappropriate towards an animal that cannot express it's unhappiness in any other way. If you or your sister cared enough to try and find out why the cat had been so agitated for so long, perhaps you would have a mellower cat, and an unwounded child in the bargain. In any case, declawing an agressive cat is like taking asprin for a brain tumor; it may temporarily get rid of the headache, but does nothing to remove the source of the problem. If my cat was acting like that, I would do everything I could to find out why and insure that the cat be somehow made to feel comfortable and content, so it wouldn't need to be bitchy, and I wouldn't need to get bitchy back, and do anything to harm it. If your kid was acting out, you wouldn't just chain them in their room, you would get them some counselling, preferably family counselling together, talk to them, find out why they were so unhappy (at least if you were a decent parent you would). Just getting ****y and punishing them wouldn't improve the situation, and it doesn't work for cats, either. They are viable, sentient, feeling beings just like us, and don't deserve to be treated like monsters when they're have problems. Ann -- http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bewtifulfreak |
#287
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another tree hugger speaks
"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message ... Sherry wrote: I am not going to apologize for helping my sister get booger declawed. This was an unusual case of a cat that tended to swipe more than any cat I've ever known... It will also protect the adults. K. "Protecting the adults." Yeah. You're doing more dancing than Michael Jackson now. And the more you post, the more it becomes apparent you, or your family, should never have cats at all. Twenty cats on a back porch does not a rescuer make. You don't understand cats. You don't seem to have much sense *or** compassion for the species at all. The defanging remark you make was the icing on the cake. You're painting a picture and expecting us to believe this cat is comparable to a bobcat or something. This poor cat is, in my opinion, probably traumatized and abused, and protecting itself. That's what I was thinking. And again, I wouldn't let a child of that age play with a *mellow* cat unsupervised, lest it pull its tail or fur and the cat lash out in pain - which is something even people do reflexively sometimes without meaning to - so why was a cat already known to be agressive allowed anywhere *near* enough to the child to do that? Not to mention, as I've said before, because the owner apparently didn't bother to try and speak to the vet or a behaviorist about the underlying cause (at least, nothing was said about them ever having sought alternatives to the 'easy answer' of declawing), the cat will still be aggressive, probably even more so, only will now likely resort to teeth instead of claws. You seem not to understand the ramifications when you say the surgery will not matter to a cat kept indoors; it affects the cat's ability to walk comfortably, without muscle aches, and can often cause muscle atrophy and skeletal problems, not to mention psychological trauma to the animal. Your saying this cat 'deserved' to be declawed shows an attitude of vengance that is inappropriate towards an animal that cannot express it's unhappiness in any other way. If you or your sister cared enough to try and find out why the cat had been so agitated for so long, perhaps you would have a mellower cat, and an unwounded child in the bargain. In any case, declawing an agressive cat is like taking asprin for a brain tumor; it may temporarily get rid of the headache, but does nothing to remove the source of the problem. If my cat was acting like that, I would do everything I could to find out why and insure that the cat be somehow made to feel comfortable and content, so it wouldn't need to be bitchy, and I wouldn't need to get bitchy back, and do anything to harm it. If your kid was acting out, you wouldn't just chain them in their room, you would get them some counselling, preferably family counselling together, talk to them, find out why they were so unhappy (at least if you were a decent parent you would). Just getting ****y and punishing them wouldn't improve the situation, and it doesn't work for cats, either. They are viable, sentient, feeling beings just like us, and don't deserve to be treated like monsters when they're have problems. Ann -- http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bewtifulfreak |
#288
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"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message ... Sherry wrote: I am not going to apologize for helping my sister get booger declawed. This was an unusual case of a cat that tended to swipe more than any cat I've ever known... It will also protect the adults. K. "Protecting the adults." Yeah. You're doing more dancing than Michael Jackson now. And the more you post, the more it becomes apparent you, or your family, should never have cats at all. Twenty cats on a back porch does not a rescuer make. You don't understand cats. You don't seem to have much sense *or** compassion for the species at all. The defanging remark you make was the icing on the cake. You're painting a picture and expecting us to believe this cat is comparable to a bobcat or something. This poor cat is, in my opinion, probably traumatized and abused, and protecting itself. get over it. you're reading way too much into a single remark. sounds like you don't understand them either. and just who are you to say someone should or shouldn't have a pet? do you know them? have you evaluated their family? have you checked their home? have you inspected their pets? probably not. just shooting off your mouth about something you know nothing about. That's what I was thinking. And again, I wouldn't let a child of that age play with a *mellow* cat unsupervised, lest it pull its tail or fur and the cat lash out in pain - which is something even people do reflexively sounds like that child needs some discipline to me. perhaps a spanking??? hmmm sometimes without meaning to - so why was a cat already known to be agressive allowed anywhere *near* enough to the child to do that? Not to mention, as I've said before, because the owner apparently didn't bother to try and speak to the vet or a behaviorist about the underlying cause (at least, nothing was said about them ever having sought alternatives to the 'easy answer' of declawing), the cat will still be aggressive, probably even more so, only will now likely resort to teeth instead of claws. oh, so now we have to be willing to take a cat to a behavioral psychologist? please. get a grip. declaw the cat. the cat will not care in the long run. You seem not to understand the ramifications when you say the surgery will not matter to a cat kept indoors; it affects the cat's ability to walk comfortably, without muscle aches, and can often cause muscle atrophy and skeletal problems, not to mention psychological trauma to the animal. Your saying this cat 'deserved' to be declawed shows an attitude of vengance that is inappropriate towards an animal that cannot express it's unhappiness in any other way. If you or your sister cared enough to try and find out why the cat had been so agitated for so long, perhaps you would have a mellower cat, and an unwounded child in the bargain. and you got your medical degree from where? i have 2 declawed pets & neither of them exhibit any of the symptoms you claim. NONE. you are seriously overstepping your bounds. advice is one thing. claiming to be an authority is quite another. In any case, declawing an agressive cat is like taking asprin for a brain tumor; it may temporarily get rid of the headache, but does nothing to remove the source of the problem. If my cat was acting like that, I would do everything I could to find out why and insure that the cat be somehow made to feel comfortable and content, so it wouldn't need to be bitchy, and some cats are just bitchy or crabby. there is little that can be done about it. mine get agitated? i medicate them. I wouldn't need to get bitchy back, and do anything to harm it. If your kid was acting out, you wouldn't just chain them in their room, you would get them some counselling, preferably family counselling together, talk to them, find out why they were so unhappy (at least if you were a decent parent you would). Just getting ****y and punishing them wouldn't improve the situation, and it doesn't work for cats, either. They are viable, sentient, feeling beings just like us, and don't deserve to be treated like monsters when they're have problems. you have serious problems woman. punching? family counseling? that is just bull****. i know of no one that counseling has actually helped. just a bunch of tree hugging hoo-doo. discipline is what children need not tree hugging. barbara |
#289
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"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message ... Sherry wrote: I am not going to apologize for helping my sister get booger declawed. This was an unusual case of a cat that tended to swipe more than any cat I've ever known... It will also protect the adults. K. "Protecting the adults." Yeah. You're doing more dancing than Michael Jackson now. And the more you post, the more it becomes apparent you, or your family, should never have cats at all. Twenty cats on a back porch does not a rescuer make. You don't understand cats. You don't seem to have much sense *or** compassion for the species at all. The defanging remark you make was the icing on the cake. You're painting a picture and expecting us to believe this cat is comparable to a bobcat or something. This poor cat is, in my opinion, probably traumatized and abused, and protecting itself. get over it. you're reading way too much into a single remark. sounds like you don't understand them either. and just who are you to say someone should or shouldn't have a pet? do you know them? have you evaluated their family? have you checked their home? have you inspected their pets? probably not. just shooting off your mouth about something you know nothing about. That's what I was thinking. And again, I wouldn't let a child of that age play with a *mellow* cat unsupervised, lest it pull its tail or fur and the cat lash out in pain - which is something even people do reflexively sounds like that child needs some discipline to me. perhaps a spanking??? hmmm sometimes without meaning to - so why was a cat already known to be agressive allowed anywhere *near* enough to the child to do that? Not to mention, as I've said before, because the owner apparently didn't bother to try and speak to the vet or a behaviorist about the underlying cause (at least, nothing was said about them ever having sought alternatives to the 'easy answer' of declawing), the cat will still be aggressive, probably even more so, only will now likely resort to teeth instead of claws. oh, so now we have to be willing to take a cat to a behavioral psychologist? please. get a grip. declaw the cat. the cat will not care in the long run. You seem not to understand the ramifications when you say the surgery will not matter to a cat kept indoors; it affects the cat's ability to walk comfortably, without muscle aches, and can often cause muscle atrophy and skeletal problems, not to mention psychological trauma to the animal. Your saying this cat 'deserved' to be declawed shows an attitude of vengance that is inappropriate towards an animal that cannot express it's unhappiness in any other way. If you or your sister cared enough to try and find out why the cat had been so agitated for so long, perhaps you would have a mellower cat, and an unwounded child in the bargain. and you got your medical degree from where? i have 2 declawed pets & neither of them exhibit any of the symptoms you claim. NONE. you are seriously overstepping your bounds. advice is one thing. claiming to be an authority is quite another. In any case, declawing an agressive cat is like taking asprin for a brain tumor; it may temporarily get rid of the headache, but does nothing to remove the source of the problem. If my cat was acting like that, I would do everything I could to find out why and insure that the cat be somehow made to feel comfortable and content, so it wouldn't need to be bitchy, and some cats are just bitchy or crabby. there is little that can be done about it. mine get agitated? i medicate them. I wouldn't need to get bitchy back, and do anything to harm it. If your kid was acting out, you wouldn't just chain them in their room, you would get them some counselling, preferably family counselling together, talk to them, find out why they were so unhappy (at least if you were a decent parent you would). Just getting ****y and punishing them wouldn't improve the situation, and it doesn't work for cats, either. They are viable, sentient, feeling beings just like us, and don't deserve to be treated like monsters when they're have problems. you have serious problems woman. punching? family counseling? that is just bull****. i know of no one that counseling has actually helped. just a bunch of tree hugging hoo-doo. discipline is what children need not tree hugging. barbara |
#290
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Karen Chuplis wrote: in article , Cathouse at wrote on 8/19/03 6:38 AM: ) wrote in om Cathouse wrote in message ... ) wrote in om Cathouse wrote in message ... Katra wrote in Yes, they should, but a 12 to 14 month old baby is NOT old enough to be told "no" so has to be protected from overly aggressive cats. I am not going to apologize for helping my sister get booger declawed. This was an unusual case of a cat that tended to swipe more than any cat I've ever known... It will also protect the adults. I had Max declawed because of aggression. But not because he scratched me, I get scratched all the time anyway. He was rough with the other cats. Not mean, really, he just played hard. He tackles with such force, they make a loud thunk when they hit the floor. Occassionally, one gets it's nose scratched, but he's not the only one that does that. Unfortunately, Max doesn't get along with the dog. They never have liked each other. The dog will just be standing next to the couch and here comes Max, slinking out from behind it. Then he jumps on the end table and smacks the dog in the face. He got him in the eye once and almost blinded him. Max laughed at the Soft Paws and chewed them off in two days. Nail trimming? Out of the question. He howls, kicks, bites, claws...by the end of it, he's panting. To keep his nails dull, this needed to be done once a week. Trying to keep from declawing him caused more stress than declawing him. So, he had the laser surgery. His paws were never tender and he's never had any trouble. In fact, he behaves exactly as he did before. Except now, he can't put anybody's eye out. Thank you. :-) Katra Did you notice that there were no comments from the peanut gallery? Yes, I did notice... I got raked over the coals for helping my sister to declaw ONE cat, while caring for 36 others without even considering the surgery. This post by someone else got ignored. What's up with that? It was my post. They must be afraid of me. Hey, Katra, did you even THINK of trying Soft Paws? Karen He chewed them off... K. -- ^,,^ Cats-haven Hobby Farm ^,,^ ^,,^ Breast Implants are the Stupidest idea ever. If I wanted to fondle $10,000.oo worth of Silicon, I'd buy a new computer! --Anon. Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra |
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