Outdoor cat poisoning - report back

"CatNipped" wrote


No condesending intended, but, ever since 9/11 the 'risk conciousness'
in
the USA has cranked up several notches about everything!

Nope, just doesn't wash. Bandit has been inside only since 1990 - *LONG*
before 9/11, *LONG* before we even thought terrorism could touch us here
in
the US.

Matthew also accused me of keeping my cats inside due to my intense
"FEAR" as he put it, in caps. It is not fear, it is just good sense. Per
the massacre of Sept. 11, 2001 in NYC, I am no more afraid now
than I was before. Fear is not really my strong suit.


Heavily encouraged
by your Government.... And why not? A paranoid population is way easier
to
controll. It's happened to a smaller degree here in Canada, we passed a
security bill too... But it's kind of like a 'Diet Patriot Act'... Still
bad
for you, but easier to swallow.


I think this is a bit far afield of whether or not cats are safe left
to roam outside unattended in places where there are cars. But
maybe that is just me.

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
"Mary" wrote in message
...

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
"Mary" wrote in message
...

You're going beyond the call of duty here, CN. This is exactly
what Steve G. and Alison do--and I never take the time to
back up and shove the **** back in their faces, as such blatant
sophistry just is not worth it. Just like using tactics that demonize
or discredit one's adversary, it's the last refuge of the dim-witted.

Well, I'm still fairly new to usenet so I guess I'm expecting logic
instead
of rhetoric - my bad!


Just like I expect people to be fair. But at least you're doing better
than I am handling it, as you don't regularly get mad and call them all
the assholes that they are.

LOL, I'll let you in on a little secret. I'm from New Orleans and was
raised by a true Southern Belle. The madder we get, the quieter we get
and
the more we start using endearments. When I heard my mother whisper,
"Darlin' girl, get your sweet self over here and let your momma look at
your
precious face, angel!", I knew I was in a *world* of sh*t! ;

In polite Southern society it would never do to point out someone's bad
manners or other faults - it's like you would treat a puppy who runs into
a
room full of guests, wagging his tail, and then poops on the rug. A
Southern lady would not only pretend it hadn't happened, she would make
every guest *believe* it never happened!

It's usually not necessary to point out when someone is showing their
ignorance, most of the time all you have to do is stand back and let them
make a fool of *themselves*! But I'm finding out that that's not always
the
case on usenet. Oh well, as my mother says, it takes all kinds!

Hugs,

CatNipped



LOL! You can tell I was not raised in the south. I love this
characterization, great job. Ever think about writing about your
southern upbringing? Some of my favorite writers are southern
women.
Ever

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...

SNIP

Are the happier? I'll repeat what I just wrote in another post...
Really?
Please ask your cats to write to me and tell me how much happier they are
by
getting to go outside. Oh, they can't write? Then please ask them to
call
and tell me how much happier they are by getting to go outside. What's
that? They can't speak either? Then please, pray tell, how do you know
that they are happier than if they were to stay inside? How have they
told
you that they understand, have weighed, and accept the risks of going
outside. By their behavior??? Look up anthropomorphism. You can not
possibly know what goes on inside your cats' minds, you can only project
onto them what you think you would prefer. I can give just as valid an
argument by saying my cats are *MUCH* happier by staying inside. How can
either of us prove that. I *CAN* prove, however, that my cats are *SAFER*
inside.
--

I know what anthropomorphism is. & it's just as valid to turn that back on
you, my dear. As much as we have domesicated cats, deep in their limbic
brains they are still meat eating predators.... So, does it make them
happier to play with stuffed toys on a carpet or do what several thousand
years of instinct are pushing them to do... go outside & hunt? As they
can't write or talk, we may never know... But I can tell you how fascinated
& happy Chablis SEEMS to me when she's brought home a kill & so far she's
been eating them... Following her genetic programming, I'd call that as
close to happy as we can define.
You are right, CN, your cats are safer than mine. I once read a very
funny book entitled '**** YES' by Dr. Wing Foo Fing (penname for Tom
Robbins). It compared safety & sanity in one chapter... It suggested that
the two are mutually exclusive. You can be safe OR you can be sane & accept
that life will kick the living sh&@ out of you at every oppurtunity....
Hmmmm....

SNIP


You and others here claim that these abcesses and other illnesses and
injuries are easily treated, but each time a cat has to fight off disease
or
infection they're not only diminishing their overall health they are
taking
time off their lifespan, and, getting back to the "happier" theme, how
happy
can an injured or ill cat be really?

Id argue that one, I've studied herbal medecine 92 years under a master
herbalist) & spent 2 years on Ski Patrol, doing emergency trauma stuff.
Reasearch points to a need to expose humans to various pathogens to
stimulate immune response. Doctors are finding too many children with weak
immune systems, because kids don't get 'old fashioned dirty' any more.
Chabils has some immune issues, her first abcess occured way before I
started letting her outside, no Idea what she cut herself on, probably the
edge of a peice of furniture or something...? Anyway, she's now on
Astragulus to boost her immune efficiency. How can your cat rejoice in
feeling healthy if it never knows what feeling lousy is all about?

Once I teach Chablis how to type, I'll have her contact you & you can
compare notes.

Luv ya back!
Right Back at you CN.

Hugs,

CatNipped

--
Mathew
Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat
En Vino Veritas

"ceb" wrote in message
...
"CatNipped" wrote in
:

Really? Please ask your cat to write to me and tell me how much
happier she is by getting to go outside. Oh, she can't write? Then
please ask her to call and tell me how much happier she is by getting
to go outside. What's that? She can't speak either? Then please,
pray tell, how do you know that she is happier than if she were to
stay inside? How has she told you that she understands, has weighed,
and accepts the risks of going outside.


Well, she sits by the door and cries to be let out. On nice days she
cries extra. She flies out the door when I open it for her. She stays out
for a while sometimes and is clearly enjoying herself.


My fat cat cries for food, and if I give it to her she eats it.
I am not stupid enough to mistake that for meaning that
the food is good for her just because she wants it. She
cries for it ALL the TIME.

"ceb" wrote in message
...
"CatNipped" wrote in
:

I find it hard to sympathize with people who have been warned,
repeatedly, that allowing cats to go outside is hazardous and do *NOT*
listen to those warnings, in fact give specious arguments why those
warnings should be ignored, and *THEN* come back and cry about how
they lost their cat (usually giving the rest of us gratuitous and
graphic descriptions of how mangled the cat was when it was found). I
would sympathize with the *CAT* who had to suffer and die because her
person was too irresponsible and thick-headed, or just plain too lazy,
to go to the effort of providing a safe rewarding environment for
their cat.


What is up with the ad hominem attacks on this group??? We disagree. That
doesn't make me irresponsible, thick-headed, or lazy.

--

It does when your stance endangers cats for your own convenience.

"Mathew Kagis" wrote in message
news:JiB4e.3097$jR3.397@edtnps84...



"CatNipped" wrote in message
...

SNIP

Are the happier? I'll repeat what I just wrote in another post...
Really?
Please ask your cats to write to me and tell me how much happier they
are
by
getting to go outside. Oh, they can't write? Then please ask them to
call
and tell me how much happier they are by getting to go outside. What's
that? They can't speak either? Then please, pray tell, how do you know
that they are happier than if they were to stay inside? How have they
told
you that they understand, have weighed, and accept the risks of going
outside. By their behavior??? Look up anthropomorphism. You can not
possibly know what goes on inside your cats' minds, you can only project
onto them what you think you would prefer. I can give just as valid an
argument by saying my cats are *MUCH* happier by staying inside. How
can
either of us prove that. I *CAN* prove, however, that my cats are
*SAFER*
inside.
--

I know what anthropomorphism is. & it's just as valid to turn that back
on
you, my dear. As much as we have domesicated cats, deep in their limbic
brains they are still meat eating predators.... So, does it make them
happier to play with stuffed toys on a carpet or do what several thousand
years of instinct are pushing them to do... go outside & hunt? As they
can't write or talk, we may never know... But I can tell you how
fascinated
& happy Chablis SEEMS to me when she's brought home a kill & so far she's
been eating them... Following her genetic programming, I'd call that as
close to happy as we can define.
You are right, CN, your cats are safer than mine. I once read a very
funny book entitled '**** YES' by Dr. Wing Foo Fing (penname for Tom
Robbins). It compared safety & sanity in one chapter... It suggested that
the two are mutually exclusive. You can be safe OR you can be sane &
accept
that life will kick the living sh&@ out of you at every oppurtunity....
Hmmmm....


He was not talking about cats, dumbass. He was talking about
humans.

"CatNipped" wrote in
:

how wracked with guilt I would be if it were something I could have
prevented from happening just be taking the extra time and effort to
keep them inside.


How does it take extra time and effort to keep them inside? I found that
having an inside-only cat was much easier than letting the cat out, opening
and closing doors, keeping an eye on things, etc etc. Not that either
scenario is terribly hard. I just fail to see how letting the cat out
sometimes means that I'm expending less time and effort with respect to my
cat.

--
Catherine
& Rosalie the calico

In article ,
enlightened us with...

Not to continue the argument, but just as a point of information... Megan,
Phil, or Mary (or whoever else may have been posting here for a long time,
since I've only been here for a little while)... give me just a guestimate
of how many people you've seen who posted here over the years saying
something like, "Fluffy has gone missing", or "Mittens was hit by a cat",

*snickers*
Love the typo.

or
"Muffy was mauled by a dog", or "Ajax has an abcess from a cat fight"? Ten,
twenty, thirty per year? Less? More?


Even if there were 30, it wouldn't really prove much.
Considering there are millions of pet cats out there and all.

--
--
~kaeli~
A man's home is his castle..., in a manor of speaking.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

"ceb" wrote in message
...
"CatNipped" wrote in
:

Really? Please ask your cat to write to me and tell me how much
happier she is by getting to go outside. Oh, she can't write? Then
please ask her to call and tell me how much happier she is by getting
to go outside. What's that? She can't speak either? Then please,
pray tell, how do you know that she is happier than if she were to
stay inside? How has she told you that she understands, has weighed,
and accepts the risks of going outside.


Well, she sits by the door and cries to be let out. On nice days she
cries extra. She flies out the door when I open it for her. She stays out
for a while sometimes and is clearly enjoying herself.

Gee, when my kids were toddlers they cried for candy and didn't want to eat
their vegetables. Eating candy, they clearly enjoyed themselves. Silly me
worrying about their nutrition and their health when I should have been
giving them what they cried for so they could be happy.

When they were youngsters they cried that they didn't want to go to school.
They clearly enjoyed staying home and playing instead. How cruel of me to
*force* them to go, I made them terribly unhappy by doing so.

When they were teenagers they whined and complained about not being able to
stay out late or smoke or drink or do drugs - that's what they *wanted* to
do, that's what would have made them *happy*!!

It's such a shame that they turned out to be such happy, healthy (never been
sick a day in their lives, never had a cavity), productive adults with happy
families and good careers. I just didn't have anybody to tell me how wrong
I was to make them so unhappy!

Now, I wouldn't let her do whatever she wants just because she cries.
After Madeline's surgery, she cried at the door A LOT and I didn't let
her out because she was still recovering.

Rosalie lived the first 3 years of her life outside. As I have said
before, I have known cats who, as a result of living outside, never want
to go outside again. I thought Rosalie might be one of them, but I was
wrong. I would have preferred for my own sake that she be indoor only,
but since she likes going out and is pretty cautious, I do let her
sometimes.

Nickleby was indoor-only and was a very happy cat. Even after we got
Madeline, and she started going outside, Nickleby went out very rarely,
and then usually only if I went out with him. He wanted to be with me.
That's just the way he was. I wouldn't force a cat outside who didn't
want to go, and I wouldn't keep a cat inside all the time who wanted to
go out, given a reasonably safe environment.

I am not saying anything about the decisions you make for your cats. I
don't really see this as a moral issue about which there is a right and a
wrong. All along I have just been trying to explain that it is possible
to *adore* one's cats and make a different decision about the whole
indoor/outdoor question. You seem to disagree.

Yes I disagree, simply because I would never knowingly put someone I love in
harm's way. when you love someone you do what's *best* for them, not simply
what makes them happy. I wouldn't let my toddlers *or* my cats play in
traffic!

CatNipped

--
Catherine
& Rosalie the calico

oops...that's 2 years under a master herbalist... diddn't hit the shift key
the 9 should be a (.

--
Mathew
Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat
En Vino Veritas
"Mathew Kagis" wrote in message
news:JiB4e.3097$jR3.397@edtnps84...



"CatNipped" wrote in message
...

SNIP

Are the happier? I'll repeat what I just wrote in another post...
Really?
Please ask your cats to write to me and tell me how much happier they
are
by
getting to go outside. Oh, they can't write? Then please ask them to
call
and tell me how much happier they are by getting to go outside. What's
that? They can't speak either? Then please, pray tell, how do you know
that they are happier than if they were to stay inside? How have they
told
you that they understand, have weighed, and accept the risks of going
outside. By their behavior??? Look up anthropomorphism. You can not
possibly know what goes on inside your cats' minds, you can only project
onto them what you think you would prefer. I can give just as valid an
argument by saying my cats are *MUCH* happier by staying inside. How
can
either of us prove that. I *CAN* prove, however, that my cats are
*SAFER*
inside.
--

I know what anthropomorphism is. & it's just as valid to turn that back
on
you, my dear. As much as we have domesicated cats, deep in their limbic
brains they are still meat eating predators.... So, does it make them
happier to play with stuffed toys on a carpet or do what several thousand
years of instinct are pushing them to do... go outside & hunt? As they
can't write or talk, we may never know... But I can tell you how
fascinated
& happy Chablis SEEMS to me when she's brought home a kill & so far she's
been eating them... Following her genetic programming, I'd call that as
close to happy as we can define.
You are right, CN, your cats are safer than mine. I once read a very
funny book entitled '**** YES' by Dr. Wing Foo Fing (penname for Tom
Robbins). It compared safety & sanity in one chapter... It suggested that
the two are mutually exclusive. You can be safe OR you can be sane &
accept
that life will kick the living sh&@ out of you at every oppurtunity....
Hmmmm....

SNIP


You and others here claim that these abcesses and other illnesses and
injuries are easily treated, but each time a cat has to fight off
disease
or
infection they're not only diminishing their overall health they are
taking
time off their lifespan, and, getting back to the "happier" theme, how
happy
can an injured or ill cat be really?

Id argue that one, I've studied herbal medecine 92 years under a master
herbalist) & spent 2 years on Ski Patrol, doing emergency trauma stuff.
Reasearch points to a need to expose humans to various pathogens to
stimulate immune response. Doctors are finding too many children with
weak
immune systems, because kids don't get 'old fashioned dirty' any more.
Chabils has some immune issues, her first abcess occured way before I
started letting her outside, no Idea what she cut herself on, probably the
edge of a peice of furniture or something...? Anyway, she's now on
Astragulus to boost her immune efficiency. How can your cat rejoice in
feeling healthy if it never knows what feeling lousy is all about?

Once I teach Chablis how to type, I'll have her contact you & you can
compare notes.

Luv ya back!
Right Back at you CN.

Hugs,

CatNipped

--
Mathew
Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat
En Vino Veritas