A multitude of cat problems

Hi,

I have lots of cats, and quite a few of them have unfortunate problems that may or may not be easy to fix. Here goes:

My oldest cat, Smokey (almost 12), has always been extremely territorial. She began acting this way right as she matured - or maybe even before that. Anyway, for a
number of years (five and a half), she spent most of her time outside. After one too many disappearances, we decided to bring her in for good, but that's not really
related to the problem. You see, she had around three litters of kittens before we got her spayed, and since she went so long without that, she sprayed. Since she
was outside most of the time, it wasn't too much of a problem, but she's always sprayed in the curtains and in the corners of the house. She does that to this day.
Would medication help? Just a good cleaning of all the areas, maybe? Okay, on to the next one...

Casper was born in the summer of 1995 (Smokey's son). He has been neurotic from the start. My sister kept him in her apartment for about a week before she gave
him back to us -- because he peed and pooped everywhere. Unfortunately, we didn't even take him to the vet to see if it was UTI or anything. Now, he has had
several UTIs that were treated - and he was always hiding and acting strange when it happened, so it was easy to tell. (Poor thing.) Well, Casper used to poop on
the kitchen floor and the laundry room floor (where a litter box resides) all the time, and we couldn't get him to use a box. On top of that, he'd spray, even after we got
him fixed. He's stopped pooping on the non-carpetted floors as often (for some reason, he never did it on the carpet), but due to newer cats who've sprayed up a
storm, he sprays more than ever. It's always in places that have already been marked, though. One thing I've noticed is that, when he does use the litterbox, he
sometimes hangs over the edge and misses without realizing it! Is he just litterbox-dumb, or is there another problem? I would like to point out that even after we've
taken him to the vet for UTIs, he'd still spray. When he had a UTI, he'd just stay in dark places, pee all over himself (and everywhere), and act even more aloof than
he already seems.

Simon likes to poop in soft places. Yes, you heard me; he'll use the litterbox regularly, and doesn't spray (he will occasionally pee in one of the marked areas, but he
seems to be very healthy -- I think he's just confused about non-litterbox areas being litterboxes, or something). He has no problem using the box, but if there's a soft
enough place, especially with room to bury deep so it takes us a while to find where THAT SMELL is coming from. Can this be fixed? Like I said, it's only soft places
(i.e., laundry baskets, beds where he's folded the sheets over his... well...).

Oscar is the most severe. He sprayed here and there for about a week before we had him neutered, when he was 7 or 8 months old, and then never sprayed again
until we brought in three of my uncle's cats in the fall of 2003. After this happened, he began to turn extremely aggressive and mean. We had him separated from the
two males before they even met him (we were afraid of a huge confrontation - but we have let them out in the same areas since then, and there were no problems,
strangely enough), but the female, who has since passed, and was very, very old, was frequently a target of Oscar's new abuse. Around this time, frustratingly
enough, our youngest cat Sylvie went into heat, and sprayed the place up, and through what we think are a combination of contributing factors, Oscar began to let
loose like a wild cat: spraying in all previously marked corners (even though he didn't before), and most frustratingly, in completely new ones. He sprayed on our
antique-looking chair, and -- I kid you not -- the oven door! Due to his attacks on Miss Kitty (uncle's eldest cat), we had to put him in our garage, where some of my
other cats are for some of the day. (We let them out, but then after some time passes, they want to go back in!) Figuring that drama with the garage crew would be
less harrowing than what was going on with Miss Kitty, his temporary garage home would make things easier for a little while. Miss Kitty passed away in the spring of
2004, and we started letting Oscar back in regularly, and his unrelentingly aggressive behavior was still there. One of my older female cats took the place of Miss Kitty
in Oscar's mind, and he began attacking her just as if she were Miss Kitty. A combination of factors has kept Oscar separated for a long time now. Curiously, while
he's in the garage, he's just like his old self, even when other cats are present (as long as it's not Nasiki) -- but when we let him out, he becomes stupendously keyed-
up and aggitated. Since his alarming behavior only manifested when the new additions arrived, we don't think he has a UTI. He seems very stressed out, and we
may have to put him on meds if nothing changes.

The non-problematic members of our kitty family occasionally pee in hot spots (read: marked), but it's not frequent, and we do believe that they're just confused about
where's the litterbox. Because we were in a financial pickle, Sylvie could not be fixed until she'd already stunk the place up with copious amounts of spray.

I know that there are a reasonable about of people with as many cats as I have, but it's starting to overwhelm us. Still, we love our cats and would never resort to the
animal shelter. Short of drowning 75% of the house with buckets of Nature's Miracle and a myriad of behavior-correction pills, we may not be able to solve anything.
Before we take this step, I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about this. I have told my Mom that maybe some of them might have UTIs, but she always
reminds me that our cats have shown clear signs of the problem -- and I know that's not always true of UTIs, which, I have informed her, can be very dangerous If
some of you do recommend check-ups, how can I further convince her?

Thanks, and sorry for the long-winded post,
Perry

Exactly how many cats do you have?? All the problems you are describing all
seem to revolve around innappropriate urination, defecation, spraying, and
aggression. Your ultimate problem COULD BE that you simply have too many
cats in your house, and thus they are all under a high amount of stress.
Something to think about. Nothing that you said jumped out at me as if to
say this cat has a bad medical problem. Most of it sounds behavioural, and
if this is the case, the most obvious reason is that the cats are stressed
for some reason and you need to find out why (i.e. don't have so many cats)

Kelly



"Perry Justus" wrote in message
news:1103_1105269915@acer...
Hi,

I have lots of cats, and quite a few of them have unfortunate problems
that may or may not be easy to fix. Here goes:

My oldest cat, Smokey (almost 12), has always been extremely territorial.
She began acting this way right as she matured - or maybe even before
that. Anyway, for a
number of years (five and a half), she spent most of her time outside.
After one too many disappearances, we decided to bring her in for good,
but that's not really
related to the problem. You see, she had around three litters of kittens
before we got her spayed, and since she went so long without that, she
sprayed. Since she
was outside most of the time, it wasn't too much of a problem, but she's
always sprayed in the curtains and in the corners of the house. She does
that to this day.
Would medication help? Just a good cleaning of all the areas, maybe?
Okay, on to the next one...

Casper was born in the summer of 1995 (Smokey's son). He has been
neurotic from the start. My sister kept him in her apartment for about a
week before she gave
him back to us -- because he peed and pooped everywhere. Unfortunately,
we didn't even take him to the vet to see if it was UTI or anything. Now,
he has had
several UTIs that were treated - and he was always hiding and acting
strange when it happened, so it was easy to tell. (Poor thing.) Well,
Casper used to poop on
the kitchen floor and the laundry room floor (where a litter box resides)
all the time, and we couldn't get him to use a box. On top of that, he'd
spray, even after we got
him fixed. He's stopped pooping on the non-carpetted floors as often (for
some reason, he never did it on the carpet), but due to newer cats who've
sprayed up a
storm, he sprays more than ever. It's always in places that have already
been marked, though. One thing I've noticed is that, when he does use the
litterbox, he
sometimes hangs over the edge and misses without realizing it! Is he just
litterbox-dumb, or is there another problem? I would like to point out
that even after we've
taken him to the vet for UTIs, he'd still spray. When he had a UTI, he'd
just stay in dark places, pee all over himself (and everywhere), and act
even more aloof than
he already seems.

Simon likes to poop in soft places. Yes, you heard me; he'll use the
litterbox regularly, and doesn't spray (he will occasionally pee in one of
the marked areas, but he
seems to be very healthy -- I think he's just confused about non-litterbox
areas being litterboxes, or something). He has no problem using the box,
but if there's a soft
enough place, especially with room to bury deep so it takes us a while to
find where THAT SMELL is coming from. Can this be fixed? Like I said,
it's only soft places
(i.e., laundry baskets, beds where he's folded the sheets over his...
well...).

Oscar is the most severe. He sprayed here and there for about a week
before we had him neutered, when he was 7 or 8 months old, and then never
sprayed again
until we brought in three of my uncle's cats in the fall of 2003. After
this happened, he began to turn extremely aggressive and mean. We had him
separated from the
two males before they even met him (we were afraid of a huge
confrontation - but we have let them out in the same areas since then, and
there were no problems,
strangely enough), but the female, who has since passed, and was very,
very old, was frequently a target of Oscar's new abuse. Around this time,
frustratingly
enough, our youngest cat Sylvie went into heat, and sprayed the place up,
and through what we think are a combination of contributing factors, Oscar
began to let
loose like a wild cat: spraying in all previously marked corners (even
though he didn't before), and most frustratingly, in completely new ones.
He sprayed on our
antique-looking chair, and -- I kid you not -- the oven door! Due to his
attacks on Miss Kitty (uncle's eldest cat), we had to put him in our
garage, where some of my
other cats are for some of the day. (We let them out, but then after some
time passes, they want to go back in!) Figuring that drama with the
garage crew would be
less harrowing than what was going on with Miss Kitty, his temporary
garage home would make things easier for a little while. Miss Kitty
passed away in the spring of
2004, and we started letting Oscar back in regularly, and his
unrelentingly aggressive behavior was still there. One of my older female
cats took the place of Miss Kitty
in Oscar's mind, and he began attacking her just as if she were Miss
Kitty. A combination of factors has kept Oscar separated for a long time
now. Curiously, while
he's in the garage, he's just like his old self, even when other cats are
present (as long as it's not Nasiki) -- but when we let him out, he
becomes stupendously keyed-
up and aggitated. Since his alarming behavior only manifested when the
new additions arrived, we don't think he has a UTI. He seems very
stressed out, and we
may have to put him on meds if nothing changes.

The non-problematic members of our kitty family occasionally pee in hot
spots (read: marked), but it's not frequent, and we do believe that
they're just confused about
where's the litterbox. Because we were in a financial pickle, Sylvie
could not be fixed until she'd already stunk the place up with copious
amounts of spray.

I know that there are a reasonable about of people with as many cats as I
have, but it's starting to overwhelm us. Still, we love our cats and
would never resort to the
animal shelter. Short of drowning 75% of the house with buckets of
Nature's Miracle and a myriad of behavior-correction pills, we may not be
able to solve anything.
Before we take this step, I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about
this. I have told my Mom that maybe some of them might have UTIs, but she
always
reminds me that our cats have shown clear signs of the problem -- and I
know that's not always true of UTIs, which, I have informed her, can be
very dangerous If
some of you do recommend check-ups, how can I further convince her?

Thanks, and sorry for the long-winded post,
Perry

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 11:13:26 -0500, Kelly wrote:

Exactly how many cats do you have?? All the problems you are describing
all
seem to revolve around innappropriate urination, defecation, spraying, and
aggression. Your ultimate problem COULD BE that you simply have too many
cats in your house, and thus they are all under a high amount of stress.


Sounds reasonable. The OP said one cat used to spend time outside. I wonder
if they are all confined now, and if letting all or some of them come and go
inside and outside freely might ease their relationships.


Margaret

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 11:13:26 -0500, "Kelly" wrote:
Exactly how many cats do you have?? All the problems you are describing all
seem to revolve around innappropriate urination, defecation, spraying, and
aggression. Your ultimate problem COULD BE that you simply have too many
cats in your house, and thus they are all under a high amount of stress.
Something to think about. Nothing that you said jumped out at me as if to
say this cat has a bad medical problem. Most of it sounds behavioural, and
if this is the case, the most obvious reason is that the cats are stressed
for some reason and you need to find out why (i.e. don't have so many cats)

Kelly

Well, I would think that was the problem as well, but the same cats had the same behavioral problems before I had so many other cats.

Perry

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:21:05 GMT, Margaret wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 11:13:26 -0500, Kelly wrote:

Exactly how many cats do you have?? All the problems you are describing
all
seem to revolve around innappropriate urination, defecation, spraying, and
aggression. Your ultimate problem COULD BE that you simply have too many
cats in your house, and thus they are all under a high amount of stress.


Sounds reasonable. The OP said one cat used to spend time outside. I wonder
if they are all confined now, and if letting all or some of them come and go
inside and outside freely might ease their relationships.


Margaret

I don't think it would. They (except for Oscar, who wasn't born yet) all had the same problems when I used to let them outside. Several of my cats ran away and
never came back, and Smokey was starting to go off for a week at a time, so that's why I brought her in. She doesn't show much interest in going outside now -- the
last time I let her out, she was back at the door in three minutes wanting in. I live about thirty or forty feet from one of the main streets in town, so I can't take the risk.
The cats all get along, except for Oscar and Nasiki, and Smokey generally doesn't like anyone - she was that way years ago, though.

Thanks,
Perry

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:45:28 GMT, Perry Justus wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:21:05 GMT, Margaret wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 11:13:26 -0500, Kelly wrote:

Exactly how many cats do you have?? All the problems you are
describing
all
seem to revolve around innappropriate urination, defecation, spraying,
and
aggression. Your ultimate problem COULD BE that you simply have too
many
cats in your house, and thus they are all under a high amount of
stress.


Sounds reasonable. The OP said one cat used to spend time outside. I
wonder
if they are all confined now, and if letting all or some of them come
and go
inside and outside freely might ease their relationships.


Margaret

I don't think it would. They (except for Oscar, who wasn't born yet) all
had the same problems when I used to let them outside.

Outside for how long? If their only place to really have territory is
inside, then short times outside wouldn't help much. A cat can't feel secure
about his/her territory unless he/she can get to it whenever he/she likes,
make it 'home base'.


Several of my cats ran away and
never came back, and Smokey was starting to go off for a week at a time,

Again, that sounds like relationship problems, not being happy in the home
situation. Which could be a territory thing, feeling crowded.


so that's why I brought her in. She doesn't show much interest in going
outside now -- the
last time I let her out, she was back at the door in three minutes wanting
in. I live about thirty or forty feet from one of the main streets in town,
so I can't take the risk.

In the OP you said "Still, we love our cats and would never resort to the
animal shelter". What about finding homes for some of them yourself? You
could interview the new owners yourself and decide which homes were most
suitable, and follow up.


Margaret

I don't think it would. They (except for Oscar, who wasn't born yet) all
had the same problems when I used to let them outside.

Outside for how long? If their only place to really have territory is
inside, then short times outside wouldn't help much. A cat can't feel secure
about his/her territory unless he/she can get to it whenever he/she likes,
make it 'home base'.

Smokey was outside for 90% of the day. The others would go back and forth from being in the house, to being outside, to being in the garage. I've read a handful of
posts where people have 9 cats and live in an apartment! I have 11 cats in a four (well, we use the forth for storage!) bedroom house with a two-car garage.



Several of my cats ran away and
never came back, and Smokey was starting to go off for a week at a time,

Again, that sounds like relationship problems, not being happy in the home
situation. Which could be a territory thing, feeling crowded.

No offense, but I hardly see how my cats disappearing were "relationship problems." Smokey would always wander, and sometimes we'd find her in someone else's
yard a few days later. The last time, however, she was gone for a week and we thought she was gone for good. I'd go out every day looking for her, and finally I
found her one evening, around the horse farm that's not too far from where I live. Smokey was overly territorial and antisocial from the start -- it has nothing to do with
being crowded.



so that's why I brought her in. She doesn't show much interest in going
outside now -- the
last time I let her out, she was back at the door in three minutes wanting
in. I live about thirty or forty feet from one of the main streets in town,
so I can't take the risk.

In the OP you said "Still, we love our cats and would never resort to the
animal shelter". What about finding homes for some of them yourself? You
could interview the new owners yourself and decide which homes were most
suitable, and follow up.

Absolutely not. They're part of my family. Also, keep in mind that five of my cats are 9 and older.

Perry



Margaret

"Perry Justus" wrote in message
news:1106_1105311341@acer...


In the OP you said "Still, we love our cats and would never resort to the
animal shelter". What about finding homes for some of them yourself? You
could interview the new owners yourself and decide which homes were most
suitable, and follow up.

Absolutely not. They're part of my family. Also, keep in mind that five
of my cats are 9 and older.

Perry

Perry,
You still haven't indicated just how many cats you have............??

Kelly

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 19:47:59 -0500, "cagney" wrote:
I think spraying is a behavorial problem, and it becomes a habit within the
1st month. My vet said it is very hard to treat after the first month. She
suggested Prozac, and behaviour modifications. most of the time cats have
to be euthanized if this behaviour doesn't change. Stress is also a
trigger. Good luck with this one. Talk to your vet. My experience with
this lasted one year. My place smelled like a barn and I had to euthanize
my beautiful 8 year old tortishell cat. how I miss her.

I hope you're not saying that you had your cat euthanized because she sprayed...

Perry

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 21:04:50 -0500, "Kelly" wrote:
Perry,
You still haven't indicated just how many cats you have............??

Kelly



Umm... actually, I did!

Perry