OT Right not to life!!

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
Lesley Madigan wrote:


My good friend Tel is a suicide survivor- his younger brother hung
himself almost 15 years ago. He;s been treated for depression multiple
times himself since then and every weekend takes flowers to his
brothers grave and sits there asking himself if he could have stopped
it, why didn't he recognise the signs? Would you really want to do
that to anyone who gives a damn about you?

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs



I don't think anyone who's lost someone to suicide ever gets over it. My
younger brother took his life 12 years ago, sometimes it feels like it
was only yesterday and hurts just as much.
--
Adrian

I'm sorry to hear that, Adrian.

John's father took his own life. He's never gotten over it. He wonders
about it all the time - is there something he could have done? What was it
that pushed him over the edge? 35 years later he's still agonizing over it.
Suicide is selfish. There are always people left who feel the repercussions
for the rest of their lives. The person ending theirs doesn't think about
the ripples in the water.

Jill

On May 1, 2:03*pm, hopitus wrote:
Are you
what they call an "East-ender"? I applaud your 'tude and
determination. I

Born in Romford (a bad start I escaped as soon as I could) but from
solid East End stock- my dad was born at a house about 10 minutes
away (Used to annoy both my parents they'd worked hard to get a nice
house in a better area so they could give their kids all the
advantages they never had and what does their daughter do? Move back
to the neughbourhood they escaped from!)

gather you are going for purple hair accents. Trendy now and totally
reversible,

Going for purple!

, a
human
vegetable brain-wise, only not dead because her wealthy, influential
family (European lesser royalty) nixed the docs pulling the plug when
advised

Many years ago like when I was a teenager as part of a course I was on
at college we had to visit various health/social work places and one
trip took us to Mile End Hospital back when it was an acute hospital
(It was later largely re-built and came to contain the dreaded Thames
House where Dave spent 3 months) and there was a girl there who being
a little nervous about some minor surgery had taken a valium and not
told the anaesthetist- alas she could breathe on her own so she spent
her days in a persistent vegetative state and had been there for some
years. One of the nurses said how proud they were that she didn't
have any bedsores and another said "If she woke up now- her parents
are both dead and her fiance married her sister but she ain't going to
wake up and it beats me why we can't just send her on her way" - our
tutor who was with us on the placement actually complained about a
nurse talking about what amounted to euthanasia of a Human being in
front of sensitive teenagers!

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

On May 1, 3:13*pm, wrote:
I've certainly felt that way at times, but it's always passed.

I always say I have periods when I'd like to be "temporarily dead"
i.e. I know this will pass but could I please be completely
insensitive until it does? At least I know it will pass- like the
situation at work recently, it's been a month now and nothing else has
happened (I suspect she was warned off and I anticipate she will come
back at me sometime but if she does now everyone will know exactly
what that looks like....) but I rather wish I hadn;t had to go
through the previous 4 months of it although it reminded me how many
great friends I had and I was suprised I coped and didn't even break
down in the hearing..I've concluded I'm stronger than I thought I was

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

On May 2, 10:59*am, hopitus wrote:

I am still hoping you will find other employment *in more worker-
friendly envireonment.-

Thanks I am still looking for the more worker friendly environment!

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

Suicide speaks
It speaks one language the world over
All its words cruel, simple, and weak
Suicide speaks
It speaks of disappointment and anger
It leaves one message
"This life wasn't good enough for me"

For those that you left,
A bitter pain and no understanding
Why is your pain more important than theirs?
I held you in my arms once
You loved the world then, what did I do wrong?

How dare you leave us?
What was it that bought your death?
I can't forgive your departure from this world
And those that you leave, you are not fit to imagine their pain
It takes more guts to live than die

So I will live, I will live for two from today
I will see that beauty is truth
Sunlight reflected on wet slate roofs
Weeds struggle for life
Amongst grime and filth, they live
Why don't you?

I will feel no guilt. I choose to live
To eat, to drink, to ****, to make a garden in the city
I will not weep, your act does not deserve it
I will miss forever the joy I thought your life would bring
But all yesterday's love and laughter does not buy my forgiveness

I've scattered your monochrome ashes
The winds took them, all you left behind
No babies, no books, no songs, no glamour in suicide
Even memories are mistrusted now, they can't be real
What you did said 'no' to life. I will say 'yes'

c Jeanette Greaves 2003

On May 2, 8:02*pm, hopitus wrote:
On May 2, 12:41*pm, NettieCat wrote:



Suicide speaks
It speaks one language the world over
All its words cruel, simple, and weak
Suicide speaks
It speaks of disappointment and anger
It leaves one message
"This life wasn't good enough for me"

For those that you left,
A bitter pain and no understanding
Why is your pain more important than theirs?
I held you in my arms once
You loved the world then, what did I do wrong?

How dare you leave us?
What was it that bought your death?
I can't forgive your departure from this world
And those that you leave, you are not fit to imagine their pain
It takes more guts to live than die

So I will live, I will live for two from today
I will see that beauty is truth
Sunlight reflected on wet slate roofs
Weeds struggle for life
Amongst grime and filth, they live
Why don't you?

I will feel no guilt. I choose to live
To eat, to drink, to ****, to make a garden in the city
I will not weep, your act does not deserve it
I will miss forever the joy I thought your life would bring
But all yesterday's love and laughter does not buy my forgiveness

I've scattered your monochrome ashes
The winds took them, all you left behind
No babies, no books, no songs, no glamour in suicide
Even memories are mistrusted now, they can't be real
What you did said 'no' to life. I will say 'yes'

c Jeanette Greaves 2003

With no apology, I will state that my poetry preferences lean toward
limericks, the more raunchy the better.
BUT I like this one you posted, whoever the author was I like it.
Thanks, from one who has no suicide history in family.

It's my poem.

Jeanette

jmcquown wrote:

John's father took his own life. He's never gotten over it. He wonders
about it all the time - is there something he could have done? What was it
that pushed him over the edge? 35 years later he's still agonizing over it.
Suicide is selfish. There are always people left who feel the repercussions
for the rest of their lives. The person ending theirs doesn't think about
the ripples in the water.

There are probably many reasons why people commit suicide, but if someone
is mentally ill, you really have no idea how much pain they might be in.
Maybe every moment of their life is complete agony. They might not feel
anything for the people in their life because their brain chemistry is so
screwed up they've lost the ability. Maybe they feel like they're surrounded
by aliens, or imposters. Maybe they feel like *they* are the imposter. Maybe
they believe they're being hunted by conspirators, and when they're caught,
they're going to be tortured endlessly. Maybe their mind is a jumble of
incoherent thoughts and they're not able to formulate a rational plan for
getting help - all they know is they have to escape this horrifying existence.
For someone in that state of mind, being called "selfish" - if it's even
meaningful at all - is laughable. It's a mere drop in the bucket of misery.
If someone can't stand being alive, I can't expect them to continue living
just for my sake, or anyone's sake. If knowing that other people need you
is enough - maybe just barely, but enough - to keep you from ending your
life, then you still have one foot in the land of the living. That's not
the case with everyone.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't do everything in my power to prevent it. I
know this about myself because I've lived it. Years ago, someone very
close to me struggled daily with the desire to commit suicide. She was in
the kind of pain I described above. I comforted, reassured, begged and
pleaded, called the police on her. I told her therapist, her friends, her
AA sponsor - whoever would listen - what was going on. Lots of people kept
an eye on her. I knew that if she was really serious about dying (most
people are at least a little ambivalent), she would find a way, no matter
how many people were watching out for her. But if I could help it, she'd
never get the chance.

But it would never have occurred to me to *judge* her for it. It's easy
to judge - it's a knee-jerk reaction that doesn't take much thought. I
think for a lot of people, pointing fingers and making judgements is a
way of coping with the total loss of control you feel when someone you
love wants to die. And I felt a lot of things - sadness, anger, constant
anxiety, guilt, protectiveness, hopelessness, exhaustion. But after
witnessing up close what she went through, and the courage it often took
for her to get through another day, I don't believe it is my place to
tell anyone else what their priorities should be about such basic
existential decisions.

Joyce

--
A black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going
somewhere. -- Groucho Marx

"kraut / larry stark" wrote in message
...


You know when someone reaches that certain point in their life where
their quality of life just is not what it should be we should have the
right to end it if that is what we want without anyone telling us what
we should do!!! Right now it takes more then I have to go day after
day and for what?!?!? I messed up the first time but not again!!! Life
is not worth it after a certain point!!!

you are showing signs of clinical depression and the trouble with that is
motivation is zero to seek medical help, which you must find the will to do.
those ferals you are looking after will die if you do something silly - they
need you desperately.

On Sun, 01 May 2011 08:41:11 -0400, kraut / larry stark
wrote:



You know when someone reaches that certain point in their life where
their quality of life just is not what it should be we should have the
right to end it if that is what we want without anyone telling us what
we should do!!! Right now it takes more then I have to go day after
day and for what?!?!? I messed up the first time but not again!!! Life
is not worth it after a certain point!!!

Depends no? If we're talking about depression, that is a disease that
needs to be treated, and it kills just as surely as cancer and heart
disease. If we're dealing with a terminal condition causing great
pain, then shortening that pain seems logical to me.

That's why the outcry over "death panels" was so wrong. My family just
had to deal with an 89 year old relative and what should be done to
preserve his life. It would have been nice to have a panel of
professionals to have helped us. Every family has to face this because
we all are going to die. Only the circumstances remain to be decided.

wrote in message
...
jmcquown wrote:

John's father took his own life. He's never gotten over it. He wonders
about it all the time - is there something he could have done? What was
it
that pushed him over the edge? 35 years later he's still agonizing over
it.
Suicide is selfish. There are always people left who feel the
repercussions
for the rest of their lives. The person ending theirs doesn't think
about
the ripples in the water.

There are probably many reasons why people commit suicide, but if someone
is mentally ill, you really have no idea how much pain they might be in.
Maybe every moment of their life is complete agony. They might not feel
anything for the people in their life because their brain chemistry is so
screwed up they've lost the ability. Maybe they feel like they're
surrounded
by aliens, or imposters. Maybe they feel like *they* are the imposter.
Maybe
they believe they're being hunted by conspirators, and when they're
caught,
they're going to be tortured endlessly. Maybe their mind is a jumble of
incoherent thoughts and they're not able to formulate a rational plan for
getting help - all they know is they have to escape this horrifying
existence.
For someone in that state of mind, being called "selfish" - if it's even
meaningful at all - is laughable. It's a mere drop in the bucket of
misery.
If someone can't stand being alive, I can't expect them to continue living
just for my sake, or anyone's sake. If knowing that other people need you
is enough - maybe just barely, but enough - to keep you from ending your
life, then you still have one foot in the land of the living. That's not
the case with everyone.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't do everything in my power to prevent it. I
know this about myself because I've lived it. Years ago, someone very
close to me struggled daily with the desire to commit suicide. She was in
the kind of pain I described above. I comforted, reassured, begged and
pleaded, called the police on her. I told her therapist, her friends, her
AA sponsor - whoever would listen - what was going on. Lots of people kept
an eye on her. I knew that if she was really serious about dying (most
people are at least a little ambivalent), she would find a way, no matter
how many people were watching out for her. But if I could help it, she'd
never get the chance.

But it would never have occurred to me to *judge* her for it. It's easy
to judge - it's a knee-jerk reaction that doesn't take much thought. I
think for a lot of people, pointing fingers and making judgements is a
way of coping with the total loss of control you feel when someone you
love wants to die. And I felt a lot of things - sadness, anger, constant
anxiety, guilt, protectiveness, hopelessness, exhaustion. But after
witnessing up close what she went through, and the courage it often took
for her to get through another day, I don't believe it is my place to
tell anyone else what their priorities should be about such basic
existential decisions.


when jill said selfish, i am so glad i read your post before responding.
what you said is pretty well my take on it.
i did a study on suicide a few years ago for my job.
it opened my eyes.