Why kill THAT bird?

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:51 -0400, "cybercat"
wrote:


"dgk" wrote
I really don't think the bell is very practical. One came with the
collars and was annoying enough (three cats) for me to remove it.
Their collars stay on all the time because their name tag and RF
tracker is on them. So, in the house it just makes too much noise. To
save one cardinal every six years is just too much noise pollution. I
figure lots get fat on my bird seed so the +/- ratio is still way up
there.

I've watched Espy's hunting technique. He hides under the Azalea which
is about 6 feet from the bird feeder.

Dude. Move the feeders out of the fenced in area.


Not practical. The fenced in area is the small backyard. I can't put
up a bird feeder in a neighbor's yard, nor could I easily get there to
put in food. There's also a heated bird bath to contend with.

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:05:15 -0400, "Matthew"
wrote:


"Linda Boucher" wrote in message
.. .
you should put a bell around there neck so the birds will
know there coming..when a birds mate get killed it takes them a long time
to get over it...we had a lone dove around for over a year when she lost
her mate..it even harder for cardinal because you only see 2 of them
around
Linda
Espy kills the male cardinal. I saw from the window that he had
something red in his mouth

A fact sheet put out by the Mammal Society but unfortunately no longer
available on their website showed that putting bells on cats does not limit
their hunting ability, in fact belled cats in one particular study caught
more wildlife than their unbelled equivalents. Some reasons given were that
belled cats learn to move even more stealthily, the bells are not loud
enough to alert wildlife of danger anyway, and inertia holds the clanger
stationary and therefore silent when the cat makes the final attacking leap.
At least two other studies have highlighted that the belling of cats has no
effect on number of birds caught. "The efficiency of fitting cats with bells
is contentious. Barrette (1998), found that belling of cats has no
significant effect on the amount of prey caught. The result of the longer
study by Woods et al. shows that fewer mammals (mainly rodents) were killed
and brought home by cats that were equipped with bells BUT bird capture
rates were not affected. Bells may serve as a warning to rodents and other
mammals of a predator's approach, but birds may rely largely on visual cues
in predator avoidance behavior or they may not hear the bell due to its
acoustic qualities (Woods et al.). Coleman et al. (1997) suggests that wild
animals don't necessarily associate the ringing of the bell with danger and
that some cats with bells on their collars learn to stalk their prey
silently."
Refs:
Barrette D.G. (1998). Predation by house cats, Felis catus (L.), in
Canberra, Australia, II. Factors affecting the amount of prey caught and
estimates of the impact on wildlife. Wildlife Research. 25: 475-487.
Woods M., McDonald R.A. and Harris S. (2003). Predation of wildlife by
domestic cats Felis catus in Great Britain. The Mammal Society


I learn another counter-intuitive fact. Well, not totally. I didn't
think a bell would have much of a deterimental effect but it's nice to
know it for sure.

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:05:29 +1100, Cazz A
wrote:

Guys,
You're all missing the fact that birds may hear the bell, but they don't
always associate it with a cat, so they ignore it, or think 'That sounds
pretty' while we, who can see the whole picture feel like yelling 'The
jingle means approaching danger you stupid featherball!'

Thus the expression "bird brain".

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:58:46 -0400, jmc
wrote:

Suddenly, without warning, dgk exclaimed (3/16/2009 8:46 AM):
I often let the cats out into the (fenced in) backyard when there is
still food in the birdfeeder. Most of the time the birds are smart
enough to stay away until the cats go back inside, but since the cats
usually just lie around and watch sometimes the birds get bold.

Once or twice a year the cats get something. Sometimes a bird,
sometimes a mouse. Yesterday, out of maybe 40 sparrows and 15 pigeons,
Espy kills the male cardinal. I saw from the window that he had
something red in his mouth and was hoping that either it wasn't a bird
or maybe I could rescue it if it was. But, no, too late.

Later that day the female cardinal was all over the yard, flitting
from tree to tree. I really feel badly about it. I know the cats are
killers and sometimes birds get killed, but why the cardinal?

I thought cats couldn't even see color, or at least not red. I have
noticed that cardinals stick around longer towards dusk than other
birds so perhaps it was a bit too bold about being on the ground near
the bird feeder.

Espy, next time, take out a pigeon.

I feel sorry for the cardinal, but that's darwinism in action. He won't
live to breed more overbold cardinals.

My cat's a fairly spectacularly failed hunter. In her 12 years of
hanging out in back yards with feeders, in THREE different countries,
she's never ever caught a bird. In fact, she's been seen running AWAY
from birds that harass her. Silly kitty

I have pictures of birds that would walk right up to the window when
she's inside, and yell at her from less than a foot, through the glass

On the other hand, since we've had her, we've never had a mouse in our
living area (except one time when we were locking her out of the
kitchen. We don't do that any more). I've never seen her kill a mouse,
but we've had mice around the house, and even in the attached garage of
one place, but have never, ever seen evidence of a mouse in the house.
So maybe she's not such a bad hunter after all.

In the kitchen incident, she'd been telling us for days that something
was up,hanging out near the dishwasher all the time, reluctant to leave
the kitchen when we closed it up for the night... until the morning when
I discovered a mouse in the garbage under the sink, and plenty of
evidence that it'd been around that cabinet for some time.

jmc


If the birds stayed on the bird feeder there would never be a problem.
But the ones on the feeder knock down seed to the ground and the
opportunistic birds are pecking away. There they are, six feet from
the cat under the naked azalea. Really, I've been amazed that so few
birds get killed. I feel bad when any of them die, but seeing that
female hanging around was awful.

It's probably the same with sparrows, but I can't tell them apart.

"dgk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:51 -0400, "cybercat"
wrote:


"dgk" wrote
I really don't think the bell is very practical. One came with the
collars and was annoying enough (three cats) for me to remove it.
Their collars stay on all the time because their name tag and RF
tracker is on them. So, in the house it just makes too much noise. To
save one cardinal every six years is just too much noise pollution. I
figure lots get fat on my bird seed so the +/- ratio is still way up
there.

I've watched Espy's hunting technique. He hides under the Azalea which
is about 6 feet from the bird feeder.

Dude. Move the feeders out of the fenced in area.


Not practical. The fenced in area is the small backyard. I can't put
up a bird feeder in a neighbor's yard, nor could I easily get there to
put in food. There's also a heated bird bath to contend with.

Well then get used to seeing birds buy it. It's a matter of priorities,
right?

"dgk" wrote in message
...
I often let the cats out into the (fenced in) backyard when there is
still food in the birdfeeder. Most of the time the birds are smart
enough to stay away until the cats go back inside, but since the cats
usually just lie around and watch sometimes the birds get bold.

If you want to feed birds, don't let the cats get to them. That's like
putting out a salt lick and shooting the deer that come to it.

If you insist on letting your cats out, get rid of the birdfeeder. Are you a
sadist or what?

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:54:18 -0400, "cybercat"
wrote:


"dgk" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:51 -0400, "cybercat"
wrote:


"dgk" wrote
I really don't think the bell is very practical. One came with the
collars and was annoying enough (three cats) for me to remove it.
Their collars stay on all the time because their name tag and RF
tracker is on them. So, in the house it just makes too much noise. To
save one cardinal every six years is just too much noise pollution. I
figure lots get fat on my bird seed so the +/- ratio is still way up
there.

I've watched Espy's hunting technique. He hides under the Azalea which
is about 6 feet from the bird feeder.

Dude. Move the feeders out of the fenced in area.


Not practical. The fenced in area is the small backyard. I can't put
up a bird feeder in a neighbor's yard, nor could I easily get there to
put in food. There's also a heated bird bath to contend with.

Well then get used to seeing birds buy it. It's a matter of priorities,
right?


Right. I like letting my cats have some outdoor time and they sure
seem to like it. I try to do this when the bird feeder is empty but
most of the time they're yowling to go out and there is still seed
left. The birds take off when I bang on the door and are quite aware
of the cats.

I've been feeding birds and letting the cats out for maybe ten years.
I think three birds have been killed. That's really a pretty low ratio
I'd say. Considering I go through 20 lbs ( 9 kg) of seed a week, I
think I save a huge number of birds during the winter.

They also have killed three or four birds during all the months that I
don't have the bird feeder going. I'm not keeping them inside all the
time just because they might kill a bird. They're cats, that's what
they do.

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:20:54 -0400, "dejablues"
wrote:


"dgk" wrote in message
.. .
I often let the cats out into the (fenced in) backyard when there is
still food in the birdfeeder. Most of the time the birds are smart
enough to stay away until the cats go back inside, but since the cats
usually just lie around and watch sometimes the birds get bold.

If you want to feed birds, don't let the cats get to them. That's like
putting out a salt lick and shooting the deer that come to it.

If you insist on letting your cats out, get rid of the birdfeeder. Are you a
sadist or what?


20 lbs of birdseed per week. Three dead birds over years of doing
this. You figure out how many birds survive the winter because I put
out birdseed all the time. I even put out a heated bird bath the last
two years - this one:
http://www.birdbaths.com/bird-baths/...edbirdbath.cfm

It isn't cheap to operate I assure you. And, because the heated water
evaporates quickly in the cold, you need to fill and clean it every
other day at least. Still, it's worth it to watch the birdies taking a
bath in freezing weather. Plus it's amusing to watch the icycles form
down the side if the weather is just right.

I need to post a sign though: "Please don't poop where you drink!".

Nah, not sadistic. Just two conflicting desires that mostly work out
ok.

"dgk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:54:18 -0400, "cybercat"
wrote:


"dgk" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:51 -0400, "cybercat"
wrote:


"dgk" wrote
I really don't think the bell is very practical. One came with the
collars and was annoying enough (three cats) for me to remove it.
Their collars stay on all the time because their name tag and RF
tracker is on them. So, in the house it just makes too much noise. To
save one cardinal every six years is just too much noise pollution. I
figure lots get fat on my bird seed so the +/- ratio is still way up
there.

I've watched Espy's hunting technique. He hides under the Azalea which
is about 6 feet from the bird feeder.

Dude. Move the feeders out of the fenced in area.


Not practical. The fenced in area is the small backyard. I can't put
up a bird feeder in a neighbor's yard, nor could I easily get there to
put in food. There's also a heated bird bath to contend with.

Well then get used to seeing birds buy it. It's a matter of priorities,
right?


Right. I like letting my cats have some outdoor time and they sure
seem to like it. I try to do this when the bird feeder is empty but
most of the time they're yowling to go out and there is still seed
left. The birds take off when I bang on the door and are quite aware
of the cats.

I've been feeding birds and letting the cats out for maybe ten years.
I think three birds have been killed. That's really a pretty low ratio
I'd say. Considering I go through 20 lbs ( 9 kg) of seed a week, I
think I save a huge number of birds during the winter.

They also have killed three or four birds during all the months that I
don't have the bird feeder going. I'm not keeping them inside all the
time just because they might kill a bird. They're cats, that's what
they do.

Right.

"dgk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:54:18 -0400, "cybercat"
wrote:


"dgk" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:51 -0400, "cybercat"
wrote:


"dgk" wrote
I really don't think the bell is very practical. One came with the
collars and was annoying enough (three cats) for me to remove it.
Their collars stay on all the time because their name tag and RF
tracker is on them. So, in the house it just makes too much noise. To
save one cardinal every six years is just too much noise pollution. I
figure lots get fat on my bird seed so the +/- ratio is still way up
there.

I've watched Espy's hunting technique. He hides under the Azalea which
is about 6 feet from the bird feeder.

Dude. Move the feeders out of the fenced in area.


Not practical. The fenced in area is the small backyard. I can't put
up a bird feeder in a neighbor's yard, nor could I easily get there to
put in food. There's also a heated bird bath to contend with.

Well then get used to seeing birds buy it. It's a matter of priorities,
right?


Right. I like letting my cats have some outdoor time and they sure
seem to like it. I try to do this when the bird feeder is empty but
most of the time they're yowling to go out and there is still seed
left. The birds take off when I bang on the door and are quite aware
of the cats.

But they come back.
Birds are hungry, all year round. They know where seed might be found,
whether or not you were felt like providing it.



I've been feeding birds and letting the cats out for maybe ten years.
I think three birds have been killed. That's really a pretty low ratio
I'd say. Considering I go through 20 lbs ( 9 kg) of seed a week, I
think I save a huge number of birds during the winter.

They also have killed three or four birds during all the months that I
don't have the bird feeder going. I'm not keeping them inside all the
time just because they might kill a bird. They're cats, that's what
they do.

Oh well.
What you posted shows that you are pretty clueless about the behavior of
cats and birds.