[OT] [PW] [Long] America Bashing

"Mathew Kagis" wrote in message
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"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...

With "trackless" electronic voting, we'll never know, will
we? (I'm of your opinion, I just didn't want to drag in
another red herring.)

OTOH, most cats probably like herring.

ROTFLMAO! Thanks Howard, it's about time we got this back on topic!!
;

Hugs,

CatNipped
My cats don't care for herring... Salmon on the other hand....
--
Mathew
Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat
En Vino Veritas

Mine prefer tuna. Or chicken. Or turkey. Especially turkey. ;-)

Joy

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...
In article , "CatNipped"
wrote:

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...

With "trackless" electronic voting, we'll never know, will
we? (I'm of your opinion, I just didn't want to drag in
another red herring.)

OTOH, most cats probably like herring.

ROTFLMAO! Thanks Howard, it's about time we got this back on topic!!
;

Hugs,

CatNipped



All right. Does a cat think dragging in a red human is indicative of an
irrelevancy? Do cats dislike sunburned humans?

I don't know, but I'll bet sunburned humans disliked being licked by cats.

Joy

"Yoj" wrote in message
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"Yowie" wrote in message
...
I think South Park summed up politics (of any country) perfectly:

"Why should I vote if the choice is between a douche and a sh*t
sandwhich?"

Those people who did not vote in the same way as you did may not think
the
person they voted for is great or wonderful or perfect, in fact they way
well think he or she is a blithering idiot too, just that out of the two
choices (and its always just two choices), that their choice was only
just
slightly less abhorrent to them than yours was.

Yowie

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Yowie. Most of us who voted
against W felt the same way. I'm sick of voting for the lesser of two
evils! It would be so nice to have somebody to vote *for*!

Joy

Joy: What about Nader?
--
Mathew
Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat
En Vino Veritas

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...
In article , "Yoj"
wrote:

"Yowie" wrote in message
...
I think South Park summed up politics (of any country) perfectly:

"Why should I vote if the choice is between a douche and a sh*t
sandwhich?"

Those people who did not vote in the same way as you did may not think
the
person they voted for is great or wonderful or perfect, in fact they
way
well think he or she is a blithering idiot too, just that out of the
two
choices (and its always just two choices), that their choice was only
just
slightly less abhorrent to them than yours was.

Yowie

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Yowie. Most of us who voted
against W felt the same way. I'm sick of voting for the lesser of two
evils! It would be so nice to have somebody to vote *for*!

Drawing from horror fiction, there's a T-shirt occasionally seen at
science fiction conventions:

"Vote for Cthulhu. Why settle for the lesser of two evils?"

Bwahahahaha. Love it. Nyralthotep for President! Oh, wait.....

Yowie


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"Mathew Kagis" wrote in message
news:ZL8Ad.33338$dv1.25241@edtnps89...



"Yoj" wrote in message
...
"Yowie" wrote in message
...
I think South Park summed up politics (of any country) perfectly:

"Why should I vote if the choice is between a douche and a sh*t
sandwhich?"

Those people who did not vote in the same way as you did may not think
the
person they voted for is great or wonderful or perfect, in fact they
way
well think he or she is a blithering idiot too, just that out of the
two
choices (and its always just two choices), that their choice was only
just
slightly less abhorrent to them than yours was.

Yowie

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Yowie. Most of us who voted
against W felt the same way. I'm sick of voting for the lesser of two
evils! It would be so nice to have somebody to vote *for*!

Joy

Joy: What about Nader?

The joys of a preferential system is that you can vote for your most
preferred party, knowing that your vote still counts in the two party
preferred system. In a preferential system, a vote for a minor party is not
a "wasted vote" - in fact it can send a strong message to both of the major
parties that many people aren't particular happy with either of them. I
gather, however, that the US election system does not employ the
preferential voting system.

Yowie


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"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:

Howard Berkowitz wrote:



OTOH, most cats probably like herring.

You know, I thought of that, after I made the post! (Of
course the only herring we ever have around here is either
pickled or kippered, neither of which elicits much interest
from Melisande.)


I do fine with pickled, but agree with Melisande about kippered. In
Scandinavia, I was amazed how many kinds of herring they had, and my
Scandinavian friends were amazed that I seemed to like them all.

Oh no! Now I have a kipper craving. Do you know how darn difficult it is in
Austrlaia to find a decent kipper???????

Yowie


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Again, David, how do some Americans wind people up? What would be an
example?
Unless I'm just too close to the situation, that I just can't see it, I can't
think of any example you could be talking about.

Sherry

This non-American has seen quite a bit of *some* Americans (careful choice of
term there) being quite boastful on how America is the best country on earth,
has the best of everything, why would anybody be interested in being anywhere
else, why should America take notice of what anyone else thinks, the most
generous people, America is the best etc., etc. Such arrogance and ignorance of
other parts of the globe, other cultures gives an impression that no other
country or cultre is worth anything is a PITA. Please note I said *some* not
*all* or even generalised. In my experience, it's that arrogance of own
culture/nation and disdain for other cultures/nations that can illicit the
anti-American reaction.

Again, please note I have not referred to *all* Americans anywhere in the
above, so it should not be taken as an anti-American rant, I'm simply trying to
explain to Sherry what she asked.

Cheers, helen s





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My cats don't care for herring... Salmon on the other hand...

I had a little bit of smoked salmon yesterday, for tea. Waffles hovered around
me, doing her best impression of Puss-in-Boots from Shrek 2 when he's in
big-eyed mode until I relented and gave her a sliver. I managed to retain my
fingers... just ;-)

Cheers, helen s


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In article ZL8Ad.33338$dv1.25241@edtnps89, "Mathew Kagis"
wrote:

"Yoj" wrote in message
...
"Yowie" wrote in message
...
I think South Park summed up politics (of any country) perfectly:

"Why should I vote if the choice is between a douche and a sh*t
sandwhich?"

Those people who did not vote in the same way as you did may not
think
the
person they voted for is great or wonderful or perfect, in fact they
way
well think he or she is a blithering idiot too, just that out of the
two
choices (and its always just two choices), that their choice was only
just
slightly less abhorrent to them than yours was.

Yowie

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Yowie. Most of us who voted
against W felt the same way. I'm sick of voting for the lesser of two
evils! It would be so nice to have somebody to vote *for*!

Joy

Joy: What about Nader?


If you don't mind a comment from someone other than Joy, I indeed
considered some of the minor party candidates, given "None of the above"
was not an option for the major parties. Recognizing it would be a
symbolic vote, the plausible minor candidates were Nader (really
independent of parties; affiliation with a fractured minor party) and
Bandnarik (Libertarian).

Over many years of watching Nader, I have found his mindset something of
the Grand Inquisitor. He seems to operate on an assumption that
government, private enterprise, and almost any individual with a cause
is up to some evil, and must be investigated and punished. He appears to
see government in this inquisitorial role, and, in particular,
guaranteeing everthing offered -- in medicine, in consumer products --
is COMPLETELY safe.

I oscillate between finding this not a vision at all, or a vision of
even bigger and more intrusive government. I've rarely heard Nader speak
in terms of positive things that even private citizens can do. Bluntly,
I find him, and some of his close advisors like Sidney Wolfe in
healthcare, to be bitter and publicity-seeking.

Badnarik seemed, at first, to have a vision for such things as civil
liberties. On reading his detailed positions, however, he seemed to find
government involvement at the root of every problem. At times, it
seemed that his answer to everything was the free market, but he didn't
seem interested in such things as antimonopoly monitoring, and such
things as requiring true independence of corporate auditing.

I am not a believer that government should do everything, but I do
believe some things can really be handled properly by government. Among
these areas are matters affecting the public health, such as epidemic
surveillance and control, independent drug evaluation, etc. He wants
these matters privatized.

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
"Yowie" wrote in message
...

I've just deleted a whole bunch of stuff that, once I re-read it,
sounded
rather flamey. I didn't mean it to sound like that, but when you start
griping, thats how it inevitabley turns out.

To sum up my page of complaints, it is generally related to the the
assumption by some individual Americans that its "obvious that All
things
American are the best, and that given a choice, the rest of the world
would
all like to be like America" type of thing that us non-Americans
occasionally come across in our journeys in cyberspace. The other, less
insulting, but just annoying thing, is the assumption that any
English-speaking/writing person in cyberspace is American. To save this
wonderful group from degenerating into flames, I could e-mail you (or
anyone
else) examples if when I come across them (if I remember) explaining why
they are irksome.

Thank you Yowie, that does help explain it, and thinking back on some of
my
posts I have to admit that I've been guitly of this. My only excuse it
that
I was overzealous in trying to put out some of that "good publicity" that
we
seem to be so lacking in (which is not a very good excuse I'll admit - I
hate it when someone puts on airs of superiority and it's not pleasant to
be
caught doing it).

One factual point I'll be critical of (Sorry Gracie) is that while
America
may well give the most dollars in foreign aid that any other country, if
you
take that as a percentage of GNP, its a pretty darn lousy figure. 21
other
countries give more as a percentage of GNP.
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp
Australia isn't allt hat good either, I'm sad to point out.

Yowie

You're right. I'll be the first to admit that America has many, many,
*MANY* faults and I glossed over that in my zeal to defend my country. My
main objective was to let people know that we are not *all* as stupid and
evil as a lot of people think we are, but I've probably only hurt my
cause.

Please forgive me if I went overboard in the opposite direction. I was
being smug, officious, and self righteous and I beg the pardon of anyone I
offended.

Not offended in the slightest. Why? Because you have not, and I doubt you
ever have, bludgeoned anyone over the head with the "America is perfect"
routine. Like everyone, you are proud of your homeland, you love it. You
defend it against attack. But you are also aware that it isn't perfect (no
place on earth is) and therefore don't make yourself blind and deaf to its
flaws when defending it.

If you've ever tried to have a reasonable conversation with a religious
zealot you've experienced the frustration. Its the same sort of thing, any
sort of critical analysis, or comments that aren't 100% positive and in line
with their beliefs is considered a threat and attacked with much zeal and
vigour, if not with facts and logic. It makes you wary of anyone proffessing
to belong to the same group, even if the next person along is perfectly sane
and rational about it. Whilest most people can get along just fine with
people who have different belief systems, there are those odd few that
simply cannot tolerate anyone of a different opinion. Some of those zealots
are religious zealots, some are patriotic zealots (and I"m sure that there
are other sorts of zealots too...). Just that the odds are, considering the
population distribution in English speaking cyberspace, that the first
Zealot you come across will probably be an American, and being a
non-American its a bit more confronting that it probably is to fellow
Americans (like, I guess a Christian Evangalist (for example) might not be
so confronting and irksome to a moderate Episcoplaean as they would be to a
Wiccan (as another example))

Hope that makes sense.

Yowie


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