How do other People Feel about the subject of cat enclosures.

For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never really
arisen.
As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in fact, I
have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other people
view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
majority in this group are from the USA.
I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
eases that guilt somewhat.

When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you lost
the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to tell
people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's, it
seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost guarantee
will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?

Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only out
into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that I
only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like to
take that risk.
I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder if
you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
feel about them please?
TIA,
Sheelagh "o"

--
Sheelagh "o"

Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

"sheelagh" u33188@uwe wrote in message news:7709f626f2119@uwe...
For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never
really
arisen.
----------
Very few people in the USA have cat enclosures. We either keep the cats
inside or let the cats out. None of the cat rescue groups will adopt out a
cat unless the wannabe slave first signs an agreement to keep the cat inside
at all times (and not to declaw). As time goes on, more and more people
belong to the "inside only" mindset. However, I doubt any of the rescue
groups would object to an enclosure. The only reason I don't let my older
cats out into our fenced yard (these are senior cats who could never jump
the fence) is that outside = fleas. In all the years I have had cats, the
only times I have ever had problems with fleas was when we were living in an
apartment building and someone else's cat went outside and brought them into
the building and on two other occasions when we brought in foster cats from
the rescue agency. And I have never treated my cats for fleas as a
precaution. I have done so only on the couple of occasions where there was a
bonafide flea problem.

In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we could not
get rid of them. This was in the days before Revolution et al and our cats
were forced to endure several flea "dips" only to have fleas again within
the week. The apartment was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were
treated by an exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year
and a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a house and
move out of the apartment. I had the new house pre-exterminated (before we
moved in), and I also had the exterminator treat the furniture one last
time. I never want to endure that ordeal again.

All of my five current cats seem perfectly content inside the house, and for
me, it's just not worth the flea risk to let them go out, and while I think
Revolution is generally safe, it does still have a potential for toxicity,
so I would prefer to avoid it if I can, particularly for the senior cats.
Aside from the flea issue, I think the enclosure is a fantastic idea, and if
I weren't so worried about fleas, I would have one in a heartbeat!
Best regards,
---Cindy S.




As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in
fact, I
have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other
people
view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
majority in this group are from the USA.
I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
eases that guilt somewhat.

When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you
lost
the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to
tell
people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's,
it
seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost
guarantee
will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?

Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only
out
into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that
I
only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like
to
take that risk.
I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder
if
you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
feel about them please?
TIA,
Sheelagh "o"

--
Sheelagh "o"

Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

On Aug 22, 12:03 pm, "sheelagh" u33188@uwe wrote:
For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never really
arisen.
As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in fact, I
have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other people
view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
majority in this group are from the USA.
I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
eases that guilt somewhat.

When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you lost
the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to tell
people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's, it
seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost guarantee
will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?

Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only out
into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that I
only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like to
take that risk.
I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder if
you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
feel about them please?
TIA,
Sheelagh "o"

--
Sheelagh "o"

Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com

This may not answer your question, but I think it's interesting. I
have two cats, one in-door only, the other goes outdoors as much as
possible. However, the outdoor cat never goes off the portico. He
just sits there all day, and comes in to eat, then out again.

I started using an enclosure, because the neighbors said there as a
fox in the neighborhood. The enclosure was bigger than the portico.
But guess what happened. The cat wanted to go outside the enclosure
and just sit in front of it!!

So no, I don't use enclosures anymore.

On 22 Aug, 18:51, Dom wrote:
On Aug 22, 12:03 pm, "sheelagh" u33188@uwe wrote:





For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never really
arisen.
As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in fact, I
have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other people
view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
majority in this group are from the USA.
I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
eases that guilt somewhat.

When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you lost
the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to tell
people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's, it
seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost guarantee
will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?

Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only out
into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that I
only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like to
take that risk.
I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder if
you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
feel about them please?
TIA,
Sheelagh "o"

--
Sheelagh "o"

Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com

This may not answer your question, but I think it's interesting. I
have two cats, one in-door only, the other goes outdoors as much as
possible. However, the outdoor cat never goes off the portico. He
just sits there all day, and comes in to eat, then out again.

I started using an enclosure, because the neighbors said there as a
fox in the neighborhood. The enclosure was bigger than the portico.
But guess what happened. The cat wanted to go outside the enclosure
and just sit in front of it!!

So no, I don't use enclosures anymore.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good story though, Lol )
Thank you
Sheelagh"o"

On 22 Aug, 17:34, "cindys" wrote:
"sheelagh" u33188@uwe wrote in messagenews:7709f626f2119@uwe...
For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never
really
arisen.

----------
Very few people in the USA have cat enclosures. We either keep the cats
inside or let the cats out. None of the cat rescue groups will adopt out a
cat unless the wannabe slave first signs an agreement to keep the cat inside
at all times (and not to declaw). As time goes on, more and more people
belong to the "inside only" mindset. However, I doubt any of the rescue
groups would object to an enclosure. The only reason I don't let my older
cats out into our fenced yard (these are senior cats who could never jump
the fence) is that outside = fleas. In all the years I have had cats, the
only times I have ever had problems with fleas was when we were living in an
apartment building and someone else's cat went outside and brought them into
the building and on two other occasions when we brought in foster cats from
the rescue agency. And I have never treated my cats for fleas as a
precaution. I have done so only on the couple of occasions where there was a
bonafide flea problem.

In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we could not
get rid of them. This was in the days before Revolution et al and our cats
were forced to endure several flea "dips" only to have fleas again within
the week. The apartment was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were
treated by an exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year
and a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a house and
move out of the apartment. I had the new house pre-exterminated (before we
moved in), and I also had the exterminator treat the furniture one last
time. I never want to endure that ordeal again.

All of my five current cats seem perfectly content inside the house, and for
me, it's just not worth the flea risk to let them go out, and while I think
Revolution is generally safe, it does still have a potential for toxicity,
so I would prefer to avoid it if I can, particularly for the senior cats.
Aside from the flea issue, I think the enclosure is a fantastic idea, and if
I weren't so worried about fleas, I would have one in a heartbeat!
Best regards,
---Cindy S.



As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in
fact, I
have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other
people
view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
majority in this group are from the USA.
I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
eases that guilt somewhat.

When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you
lost
the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to
tell
people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's,
it
seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost
guarantee
will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?

Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only
out
into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that
I
only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like
to
take that risk.
I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder
if
you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
feel about them please?
TIA,
Sheelagh "o"

--
Sheelagh "o"

Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I can understand that, it is a very valid reason.

Thank you for the explanation as well. It helps us to understand how
each other feel, & their reasons for feeling so passionately about why
we do things the way we do.

I hope that you don't think that I was criticizing the indoor outdoor
debate? That is not the case at all! This is entirely different. I
think we have started to think the way we do about enclosures, because
of incidents such as Ringo being shot @. I think we do it to ease our
conscience about taking an already outdoor cat's liberty away. It's a
conscience thing I suppose. However, as you rightly point out, most
cats that live indoors, are perfectly happy they way life is. I just
noticed that not many of our american correspondents ever talk about
cat enclosures, & I wondered why that was. Thank you for indulging me
Cindy

Sheelagh"o"

On Aug 22, 3:18 pm, "Sheelagh o"
wrote:
On 22 Aug, 17:34, "cindys" wrote:



"sheelagh" u33188@uwe wrote in messagenews:7709f626f2119@uwe...
For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never
really
arisen.

----------
Very few people in the USA have cat enclosures. We either keep the cats
inside or let the cats out. None of the cat rescue groups will adopt out a
cat unless the wannabe slave first signs an agreement to keep the cat inside
at all times (and not to declaw). As time goes on, more and more people
belong to the "inside only" mindset. However, I doubt any of the rescue
groups would object to an enclosure. The only reason I don't let my older
cats out into our fenced yard (these are senior cats who could never jump
the fence) is that outside = fleas. In all the years I have had cats, the
only times I have ever had problems with fleas was when we were living in an
apartment building and someone else's cat went outside and brought them into
the building and on two other occasions when we brought in foster cats from
the rescue agency. And I have never treated my cats for fleas as a
precaution. I have done so only on the couple of occasions where there was a
bonafide flea problem.

In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we could not
get rid of them. This was in the days before Revolution et al and our cats
were forced to endure several flea "dips" only to have fleas again within
the week. The apartment was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were
treated by an exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year
and a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a house and
move out of the apartment. I had the new house pre-exterminated (before we
moved in), and I also had the exterminator treat the furniture one last
time. I never want to endure that ordeal again.

All of my five current cats seem perfectly content inside the house, and for
me, it's just not worth the flea risk to let them go out, and while I think
Revolution is generally safe, it does still have a potential for toxicity,
so I would prefer to avoid it if I can, particularly for the senior cats.
Aside from the flea issue, I think the enclosure is a fantastic idea, and if
I weren't so worried about fleas, I would have one in a heartbeat!
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in
fact, I
have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other
people
view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
majority in this group are from the USA.
I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
eases that guilt somewhat.

When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you
lost
the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to
tell
people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's,
it
seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost
guarantee
will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?

Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only
out
into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that
I
only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like
to
take that risk.
I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder
if
you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
feel about them please?
TIA,
Sheelagh "o"

--
Sheelagh "o"

Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I can understand that, it is a very valid reason.

Thank you for the explanation as well. It helps us to understand how
each other feel, & their reasons for feeling so passionately about why
we do things the way we do.

I hope that you don't think that I was criticizing the indoor outdoor
debate? That is not the case at all! This is entirely different. I
think we have started to think the way we do about enclosures, because
of incidents such as Ringo being shot @. I think we do it to ease our
conscience about taking an already outdoor cat's liberty away. It's a
conscience thing I suppose. However, as you rightly point out, most
cats that live indoors, are perfectly happy they way life is. I just
noticed that not many of our american correspondents ever talk about
cat enclosures, & I wondered why that was. Thank you for indulging me
Cindy

Sheelagh"o"

Your cat was shot at? Really? Someone actually used a gun on your
cat? Why, for heaven's sake?

On 22 Aug, 20:22, Dom wrote:
On Aug 22, 3:18 pm, "Sheelagh o"
wrote:





On 22 Aug, 17:34, "cindys" wrote:

"sheelagh" u33188@uwe wrote in messagenews:7709f626f2119@uwe...
For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never
really
arisen.

----------
Very few people in the USA have cat enclosures. We either keep the cats
inside or let the cats out. None of the cat rescue groups will adopt out a
cat unless the wannabe slave first signs an agreement to keep the cat inside
at all times (and not to declaw). As time goes on, more and more people
belong to the "inside only" mindset. However, I doubt any of the rescue
groups would object to an enclosure. The only reason I don't let my older
cats out into our fenced yard (these are senior cats who could never jump
the fence) is that outside = fleas. In all the years I have had cats, the
only times I have ever had problems with fleas was when we were living in an
apartment building and someone else's cat went outside and brought them into
the building and on two other occasions when we brought in foster cats from
the rescue agency. And I have never treated my cats for fleas as a
precaution. I have done so only on the couple of occasions where there was a
bonafide flea problem.

In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we could not
get rid of them. This was in the days before Revolution et al and our cats
were forced to endure several flea "dips" only to have fleas again within
the week. The apartment was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were
treated by an exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year
and a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a house and
move out of the apartment. I had the new house pre-exterminated (before we
moved in), and I also had the exterminator treat the furniture one last
time. I never want to endure that ordeal again.

All of my five current cats seem perfectly content inside the house, and for
me, it's just not worth the flea risk to let them go out, and while I think
Revolution is generally safe, it does still have a potential for toxicity,
so I would prefer to avoid it if I can, particularly for the senior cats.
Aside from the flea issue, I think the enclosure is a fantastic idea, and if
I weren't so worried about fleas, I would have one in a heartbeat!
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in
fact, I
have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other
people
view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
majority in this group are from the USA.
I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
eases that guilt somewhat.

When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you
lost
the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to
tell
people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's,
it
seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost
guarantee
will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?

Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only
out
into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that
I
only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like
to
take that risk.
I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder
if
you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
feel about them please?
TIA,
Sheelagh "o"

--
Sheelagh "o"

Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com-Hidequoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I can understand that, it is a very valid reason.

Thank you for the explanation as well. It helps us to understand how
each other feel, & their reasons for feeling so passionately about why
we do things the way we do.

I hope that you don't think that I was criticizing the indoor outdoor
debate? That is not the case at all! This is entirely different. I
think we have started to think the way we do about enclosures, because
of incidents such as Ringo being shot @. I think we do it to ease our
conscience about taking an already outdoor cat's liberty away. It's a
conscience thing I suppose. However, as you rightly point out, most
cats that live indoors, are perfectly happy they way life is. I just
noticed that not many of our american correspondents ever talk about
cat enclosures, & I wondered why that was. Thank you for indulging me
Cindy

Sheelagh"o"

Your cat was shot at? Really? Someone actually used a gun on your
cat? Why, for heaven's sake?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Long story, but we live in the UK , where it is perfectly normal to
allow your cat outside; In fact it is considered unusual not to allow
them to roam.
But, yes, he was shot @ but not with a firearm as such, it was a BB
gun, but it still made a mess of the poor old fellow, & he suffered
terribly. As to why?
Why do teenagers think it is funny to use live animals as target
practise?
I don't suppose I will ever get the answer to that question, because I
simply don't understand either. The cat enclosure has allowed us to
offer a bit more freedom to the inside cats we already had, & a safe
environment for an old outside cat to enjoy, without the fear of being
shot again.. He will only go outside in human or feline company now.
What do we expect though.. it must have been really traumatic for
him.
Thanks for asking though...
Sheelagh "o"

On Aug 22, 3:30 pm, "Sheelagh o"
wrote:
On 22 Aug, 20:22, Dom wrote:



On Aug 22, 3:18 pm, "Sheelagh o"
wrote:

On 22 Aug, 17:34, "cindys" wrote:

"sheelagh" u33188@uwe wrote in messagenews:7709f626f2119@uwe...
For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never
really
arisen.

----------
Very few people in the USA have cat enclosures. We either keep the cats
inside or let the cats out. None of the cat rescue groups will adopt out a
cat unless the wannabe slave first signs an agreement to keep the cat inside
at all times (and not to declaw). As time goes on, more and more people
belong to the "inside only" mindset. However, I doubt any of the rescue
groups would object to an enclosure. The only reason I don't let my older
cats out into our fenced yard (these are senior cats who could never jump
the fence) is that outside = fleas. In all the years I have had cats, the
only times I have ever had problems with fleas was when we were living in an
apartment building and someone else's cat went outside and brought them into
the building and on two other occasions when we brought in foster cats from
the rescue agency. And I have never treated my cats for fleas as a
precaution. I have done so only on the couple of occasions where there was a
bonafide flea problem.

In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we could not
get rid of them. This was in the days before Revolution et al and our cats
were forced to endure several flea "dips" only to have fleas again within
the week. The apartment was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were
treated by an exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year
and a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a house and
move out of the apartment. I had the new house pre-exterminated (before we
moved in), and I also had the exterminator treat the furniture one last
time. I never want to endure that ordeal again.

All of my five current cats seem perfectly content inside the house, and for
me, it's just not worth the flea risk to let them go out, and while I think
Revolution is generally safe, it does still have a potential for toxicity,
so I would prefer to avoid it if I can, particularly for the senior cats.
Aside from the flea issue, I think the enclosure is a fantastic idea, and if
I weren't so worried about fleas, I would have one in a heartbeat!
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in
fact, I
have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other
people
view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
majority in this group are from the USA.
I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
eases that guilt somewhat.

When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you
lost
the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to
tell
people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's,
it
seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost
guarantee
will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?

Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only
out
into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that
I
only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like
to
take that risk.
I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder
if
you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
feel about them please?
TIA,
Sheelagh "o"

--
Sheelagh "o"

Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com-Hidequotedtext -

- Show quoted text -

I can understand that, it is a very valid reason.

Thank you for the explanation as well. It helps us to understand how
each other feel, & their reasons for feeling so passionately about why
we do things the way we do.

I hope that you don't think that I was criticizing the indoor outdoor
debate? That is not the case at all! This is entirely different. I
think we have started to think the way we do about enclosures, because
of incidents such as Ringo being shot @. I think we do it to ease our
conscience about taking an already outdoor cat's liberty away. It's a
conscience thing I suppose. However, as you rightly point out, most
cats that live indoors, are perfectly happy they way life is. I just
noticed that not many of our american correspondents ever talk about
cat enclosures, & I wondered why that was. Thank you for indulging me
Cindy

Sheelagh"o"

Your cat was shot at? Really? Someone actually used a gun on your
cat? Why, for heaven's sake?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Long story, but we live in the UK , where it is perfectly normal to
allow your cat outside; In fact it is considered unusual not to allow
them to roam.
But, yes, he was shot @ but not with a firearm as such, it was a BB
gun, but it still made a mess of the poor old fellow, & he suffered
terribly. As to why?
Why do teenagers think it is funny to use live animals as target
practise?
I don't suppose I will ever get the answer to that question, because I
simply don't understand either. The cat enclosure has allowed us to
offer a bit more freedom to the inside cats we already had, & a safe
environment for an old outside cat to enjoy, without the fear of being
shot again.. He will only go outside in human or feline company now.
What do we expect though.. it must have been really traumatic for
him.
Thanks for asking though...
Sheelagh "o"

We have examples of this kind of horrible animal cruelty also. I
don't know if you heard about it in the UK, but here in the US, a
football player (wealthy beyond belief) was running a dog-fighting
ring on the side. He was even training the dogs for fighting. Others
said he would often kill a dog that didn't perform up to
expectations.

Here are two comments on this hideous oaf that I think are priceless;


http://www.newstalk 650.com/loucks/ index.php? itemid=231

http://www.vickdogc hewtoy.com/

On 22 Aug, 17:03, "sheelagh" u33188@uwe wrote:
For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never really
arisen.
As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in fact, I
have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other people
view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
majority in this group are from the USA.
I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
eases that guilt somewhat.

When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you lost
the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to tell
people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's, it
seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost guarantee
will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?

Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only out
into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that I
only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like to
take that risk.
I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder if
you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
feel about them please?
TIA,
Sheelagh "o"

--
Sheelagh "o"

Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com

can't afford to build one right now, but when mr mcgregor starts
thinking abuot giong out into the garden we will ahve to get some big
fencing panels and block off the gate at the end of the garden and the
'tunnel under the fence at the end (where jessie built her escape
route into next doors garden) as apparantly he is a bit of a wanderer.
He aparantly tends to wander off, forgets where he is and how he got
there and doesn't come back for days, so we are goign to have tomake
the back garden secure.
he is VERY unlikely to be able to jump over anything (his ample girth
is the limiting factor here) so it won't be too hard, just have to
block off any ground level escape routes.

we are probably going to get him a harness and take him out for walks
around the cul de sac anyway as he is a bit of a couch potato and he
really does need to lose some weight, not so much to keep a tight rein
on him but more to 'encourage' him into going out for a walk. Jessie
doesn't need a harness and lead as she sticks close to me on our
little walks, she won't go far away from me at all.

right now though, all 3 seem to gone into early hibernation with all
the **** weather we are having right now, it really does feel like
november this evening, very windy, no fun at all on the river. There
seems to be a snoring ball of fur somewhere in each room right now, on
a sofa, on a bed, on a beanbag, and they dont't seem to be too
bothered about going for excursions right now, they are not stupid,
they know where it is warm dry and close to copious amounts of food
and human slaves.

gettign mr mcgregor with his 'wandering' habit has made me think about
gettign the backl garden more enclosed and secure and I know i will
have to do that before he goes out into it, but i am not keen on
building a massive enclosure over the whole thing. for a start i have
no money to do so, and also this house is rendted and I doubt that the
landlord will take too kindly to us dong weird stuff in his back
garden, not that he would ever come round to check, but i don't want
to push it.

any decisions on the case with the negligent vet, re-lilly? any
fuirther thoughts on what you will do?
bookie

Why do teenagers think it is funny to use live animals as target
practise?

because they're ****s and need a good kicking, as do their parents for
not bringing them up properly to be able to respect all life and
behave in a decent manner
thought we'd been through all this?