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#11
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John Doe
Netcop-wannabe troll from Google Groups...
-- "Peter W." pfjw aol.com wrote: X-Received: by 10.176.27.46 with SMTP id d46mr10095346uai.6.1501462579441; Sun, 30 Jul 2017 17:56:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.31.161.68 with SMTP id k65mr49066vke.21.1501462579388; Sun, 30 Jul 2017 17:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!w51no923666qtc.0!news-out.google.com!g57ni515qtg.1!nntp.google.com!w51no 923663qtc.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo. googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2017 17:56:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: vcydnaOElP4-vODEnZ2dnUU7-YfNnZ2d giganews.com Complaints-To: groups-abuse google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:4b:300:5360:f162:a0b3:90ff:f112; posting-account=tQE80AoAAACYibCqNWmwmvQ2q1XctZSS NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:4b:300:5360:f162:a0b3:90ff:f112 References: b434b324-c7d6-417b-b16c-e06948f75d8e googlegroups.com 87eft3s7gx.fsf ixod.org vcydnaOElP4-vODEnZ2dnUU7-YfNnZ2d giganews.com User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: 7b71f552-c7d3-4158-b748-9707c5d15f8e googlegroups.com Subject: John Doe From: "Peter W." pfjw aol.com Injection-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 00:56:19 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:12487 Mark, Mr. Schenk: Two things: I did state that if one wishes to dilute the value of words, us Lynx or Mountain Lion to understand the point. Then, consider William of Occam - "semi-feral" is neither. Neither semi (anything) nor feral (anything). Answer one question, carefully: Were you to find/trap a genuine European Wild Cat under your control, would you attempt to 'gentle it' into a house pet? That is a yes/no question. Once answered, please apply that answer to the next actual Feral you encounter. They are NOT, in any way, shape, form or after however much wishful thinking, anything like any sort of barn cat, stray cat, homeless cat, nor any other sort of human-interactive cat at any level, however removed. Full stop. Please answer. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#12
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John Doe
Peter W. wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
Mark, Mr. Schenk: Two things: I did state that if one wishes to dilute the value of words, us Lynx or Mountain Lion to understand the point. Then, consider William of Occam - "semi-feral" is neither. Neither semi (anything) nor feral (anything). Answer one question, carefully: Were you to find/trap a genuine European Wild Cat under your control, would you attempt to 'gentle it' into a house pet? That is a yes/no question. Once answered, please apply that answer to the next actual Feral you encounter. They are NOT, in any way, shape, form or after however much wishful thinking, anything like any sort of barn cat, stray cat, homeless cat, nor any other sort of human-interactive cat at any level, however removed. Full stop. Please answer. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA Peter, lets start that you can't even spell my nickname, nor did you have any reason to assume my sex (got it wrong BTW). You also changed breeds off the domestic line. Unless you have OCD issues, the world is not 'black or white, with no shades of grey'. If you do really think the world is a yes or no place with no shades of color, then I am sorry that you feel that way but will endtrans the conversation as not worth my time. Lets try it another way. How many years and in what capacity do you have with cat rescue? I have 37 years at it, working my ways up to to harder cases. It takes time, patience, knowledge, and willing to accept what will not change. -- |
#13
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John Doe
On Monday, July 31, 2017 at 9:01:28 PM UTC-4, cshenk wrote:
Peter W. wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: Mark, Mr. Schenk: Two things: I did state that if one wishes to dilute the value of words, us Lynx or Mountain Lion to understand the point. Then, consider William of Occam - "semi-feral" is neither. Neither semi (anything) nor feral (anything). Answer one question, carefully: Were you to find/trap a genuine European Wild Cat under your control, would you attempt to 'gentle it' into a house pet? That is a yes/no question. Once answered, please apply that answer to the next actual Feral you encounter. They are NOT, in any way, shape, form or after however much wishful thinking, anything like any sort of barn cat, stray cat, homeless cat, nor any other sort of human-interactive cat at any level, however removed. Full stop. Please answer. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA Peter, lets start that you can't even spell my nickname, nor did you have any reason to assume my sex (got it wrong BTW). You also changed breeds off the domestic line. Unless you have OCD issues, the world is not 'black or white, with no shades of grey'. If you do really think the world is a yes or no place with no shades of color, then I am sorry that you feel that way but will endtrans the conversation as not worth my time. Lets try it another way. How many years and in what capacity do you have with cat rescue? I have 37 years at it, working my ways up to to harder cases. It takes time, patience, knowledge, and willing to accept what will not change. -- I have been rescuing - and not from shelters - cats at one level or another for very nearly 50 years now, and on two continents. None of the present incumbents are rescues at this time, but the most recent was about six years ago and placed with one of the kids. We keep only two cats at a time, usually very long times. I do notice your evasion of the direct question: What would *YOU* do were you by accident or design in control of a European Wild Cat? In my case, it was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_wildcat that my wife and I found injured and barely conscious on the highway between Riyadh and Khobar - not by a vehicle, but probably by some other predator. After having it vetted, cleaned, and a few stitches (all the while tranquilized) it became clear that this one was no domestic cat (the Bedouin are very fond of cats for many good reasons - so seeing cats away from civilization is not uncommon). The vet kept it for two days to make sure that there were no complications - it drank but did not eat - and then I returned it to where we found it. It did not look back. So, your answer? Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#14
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John Doe
Netcop-wannabe troll...
-- "Peter W." pfjw aol.com wrote: X-Received: by 10.200.36.185 with SMTP id s54mr9395162qts.0.1501583940275; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 03:39:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.31.169.17 with SMTP id s17mr33480vke.11.1501583940240; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 03:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!w51no1163155qtc.0!new s-out.google.com!g57ni717qtg.1!nntp.google.com!s6no1 319309qtc.1!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo. googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 03:38:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: 5cedneZqNN58T-LEnZ2dnUU7-a_NnZ2d giganews.com Complaints-To: groups-abuse google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=100.11.134.66; posting-account=tQE80AoAAACYibCqNWmwmvQ2q1XctZSS NNTP-Posting-Host: 100.11.134.66 References: b434b324-c7d6-417b-b16c-e06948f75d8e googlegroups.com 87eft3s7gx.fsf ixod.org vcydnaOElP4-vODEnZ2dnUU7-YfNnZ2d giganews.com 7b71f552-c7d3-4158-b748-9707c5d15f8e googlegroups.com 5cedneZqNN58T-LEnZ2dnUU7-a_NnZ2d giganews.com User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: c57af293-7753-4972-a898-8c404ef86c7d googlegroups.com Subject: John Doe From: "Peter W." pfjw aol.com Injection-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 10:39:00 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:12498 On Monday, July 31, 2017 at 9:01:28 PM UTC-4, cshenk wrote: Peter W. wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: Mark, Mr. Schenk: Two things: I did state that if one wishes to dilute the value of words, us Lynx or Mountain Lion to understand the point. Then, consider William of Occam - "semi-feral" is neither. Neither semi (anything) nor feral (anything). Answer one question, carefully: Were you to find/trap a genuine European Wild Cat under your control, would you attempt to 'gentle it' into a house pet? That is a yes/no question. Once answered, please apply that answer to the next actual Feral you encounter. They are NOT, in any way, shape, form or after however much wishful thinking, anything like any sort of barn cat, stray cat, homeless cat, nor any other sort of human-interactive cat at any level, however removed. Full stop. Please answer. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA Peter, lets start that you can't even spell my nickname, nor did you have any reason to assume my sex (got it wrong BTW). You also changed breeds off the domestic line. Unless you have OCD issues, the world is not 'black or white, with no shades of grey'. If you do really think the world is a yes or no place with no shades of color, then I am sorry that you feel that way but will endtrans the conversation as not worth my time. Lets try it another way. How many years and in what capacity do you have with cat rescue? I have 37 years at it, working my ways up to to harder cases. It takes time, patience, knowledge, and willing to accept what will not change. -- I have been rescuing - and not from shelters - cats at one level or another for very nearly 50 years now, and on two continents. None of the present incumbents are rescues at this time, but the most recent was about six years ago and placed with one of the kids. We keep only two cats at a time, usually very long times. I do notice your evasion of the direct question: What would *YOU* do were you by accident or design in control of a European Wild Cat? In my case, it was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_wildcat that my wife and I found injured and barely conscious on the highway between Riyadh and Khobar - not by a vehicle, but probably by some other predator. After having it vetted, cleaned, and a few stitches (all the while tranquilized) it became clear that this one was no domestic cat (the Bedouin are very fond of cats for many good reasons - so seeing cats away from civilization is not uncommon). The vet kept it for two days to make sure that there were no complications - it drank but did not eat - and then I returned it to where we found it. It did not look back. So, your answer? Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#15
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John Doe
Peter W. wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
On Monday, July 31, 2017 at 9:01:28 PM UTC-4, cshenk wrote: Peter W. wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: Mark, Mr. Schenk: Two things: I did state that if one wishes to dilute the value of words, us Lynx or Mountain Lion to understand the point. Then, consider William of Occam - "semi-feral" is neither. Neither semi (anything) nor feral (anything). Answer one question, carefully: Were you to find/trap a genuine European Wild Cat under your control, would you attempt to 'gentle it' into a house pet? That is a yes/no question. Once answered, please apply that answer to the next actual Feral you encounter. They are NOT, in any way, shape, form or after however much wishful thinking, anything like any sort of barn cat, stray cat, homeless cat, nor any other sort of human-interactive cat at any level, however removed. Full stop. Please answer. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA Peter, lets start that you can't even spell my nickname, nor did you have any reason to assume my sex (got it wrong BTW). You also changed breeds off the domestic line. Unless you have OCD issues, the world is not 'black or white, with no shades of grey'. If you do really think the world is a yes or no place with no shades of color, then I am sorry that you feel that way but will endtrans the conversation as not worth my time. Lets try it another way. How many years and in what capacity do you have with cat rescue? I have 37 years at it, working my ways up to to harder cases. It takes time, patience, knowledge, and willing to accept what will not change. -- I have been rescuing - and not from shelters - cats at one level or another for very nearly 50 years now, and on two continents. None of the present incumbents are rescues at this time, but the most recent was about six years ago and placed with one of the kids. We keep only two cats at a time, usually very long times. I do notice your evasion of the direct question: What would YOU do were you by accident or design in control of a European Wild Cat? In my case, it was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_wildcat that my wife and I found injured and barely conscious on the highway between Riyadh and Khobar - not by a vehicle, but probably by some other predator. After having it vetted, cleaned, and a few stitches (all the while tranquilized) it became clear that this one was no domestic cat (the Bedouin are very fond of cats for many good reasons - so seeing cats away from civilization is not uncommon). The vet kept it for two days to make sure that there were no complications - it drank but did not eat - and then I returned it to where we found it. It did not look back. So, your answer? Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA Peter, I do not live in Europe so I am more like to encounter an American Bobcat. Do you feel your version of a wild cat matters more than ours? I do not know. Since you seem to post with a USA addess, is there a reason why you center on a Europe version of feline? (PA seems USA and if i am wrong, my apologies). -- |
#16
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John Doe
The point of the exercise is to question your behavior if you were to encounter a true feral cat - and known to be such. But, nonetheless a cat.
Up near our summer house (north-central PA) we are adjacent to a fairly large state game land. There are several walking trails, and during the non-hunting months, we sometimes take the dogs on long rambles on early mornings as we see the most then. One day, we came heard some meowing and thought we came across a lost kitten, or several. Not even a little bit. We walked around for an hour looking, with the dogs on their leashes (they love cats, by the way) That was about eight years ago. Today, there are still cats up there, but we have yet to actually lay eyes on one - but for one fleeting view, that first time. These last couple of years we have stopped these walks during the summer as the deer population has exploded, along with the associated ticks. This is what I mean by a true feral. These are not, nor will they ever be cute little housepets, and to force them into permanent kittenhood does them no favors. Alley cats, strays, lost cats, all these are fair game for 'rescue', and I have done my share of that. But after perhaps 3 or 4 generations with no human contact, any cat of that nature has no need for humans. We do not have wild domestic cat analogs in North America, so there is no direct comparison. But, by the he same token, would you attempt to domesticate a lynx? We spent several years living and working in the Middle East, and learned a great deal about cultures and attitudes in the area. And we did venture out into the countryside more than most Westerners, and so experienced some interesting encounters. We learned to drink cardamom coffee in vast quantities, to always carry honey or sugar - just two small things of many. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#17
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John Doe
Peter W. wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
The point of the exercise is to question your behavior if you were to encounter a true feral cat - and known to be such. But, nonetheless a cat. Up near our summer house (north-central PA) we are adjacent to a fairly large state game land. There are several walking trails, and during the non-hunting months, we sometimes take the dogs on long rambles on early mornings as we see the most then. One day, we came heard some meowing and thought we came across a lost kitten, or several. Not even a little bit. We walked around for an hour looking, with the dogs on their leashes (they love cats, by the way) That was about eight years ago. Today, there are still cats up there, but we have yet to actually lay eyes on one - but for one fleeting view, that first time. These last couple of years we have stopped these walks during the summer as the deer population has exploded, along with the associated ticks. This is what I mean by a true feral. These are not, nor will they ever be cute little housepets, and to force them into permanent kittenhood does them no favors. Alley cats, strays, lost cats, all these are fair game for 'rescue', and I have done my share of that. But after perhaps 3 or 4 generations with no human contact, any cat of that nature has no need for humans. We do not have wild domestic cat analogs in North America, so there is no direct comparison. But, by the he same token, would you attempt to domesticate a lynx? We spent several years living and working in the Middle East, and learned a great deal about cultures and attitudes in the area. And we did venture out into the countryside more than most Westerners, and so experienced some interesting encounters. We learned to drink cardamom coffee in vast quantities, to always carry honey or sugar - just two small things of many. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA Well Peter, you may be one of those people who uses the term in the most strict sense based on a specfic area you lived in and if you wish to do that, that is your right to express. And yes, I had a bobcat (Lynx related). Named him Bobby and the vet laughed a lot when he found out I didnt know he was a bobcat as he grew up. -- |
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