Do vets really care?

"mich" wrote in message
...

"Linda Hartley" wrote in message
...
So here we are at home and I am desolate and devastated....all I
wanted
was
a vet to treat Yogi properly at each and every occasion...not to
consider
the cost....but to consider all the possibilities each time adn
follwoing
examinations to treat properly...not be lackadaisical or take
short
cuts...some of these vets never did an initial exam...such as
listening to
heart/lungs, atking temperature or smelling this breath.....
The worst part is I know that I will have to argue with this vet
to get
him
to do a home visit when the time comes for Yogi to pass on.

I thought this was just me! I live in Cornwall. I had the same
problems with
a vet here . My last cat died at the end of last year . I battled
for two
years to keep him alive after the vet had said " put him down , he
is not
economic anymore".
He had a good quality of life for those two years once I forced
them to
treat him rather than dismiss him (and me). I told them that if he
was human
no one would consider putting him down on economic grounds ( what
economy? -
He wasnt a "working" animal) at that stage so treat him .

He was also diagnosed FELv ( and yes I too had tried to get him
vaccinated
etc) and the vet appeared to blame me for his condition and for any
other
illnesses he got. Every time I took him to the vet I seemed to be at
fault.

In the end I just laid the law down ( I happen to know a lot about
human
physiology - and frankly cats are not that different on the basics!)

I dont trust vets ( at least not British ones - cant speak for any
other
country).

If any vets ever read this...please remember these aniamls are not
'Just
cats' as one vet said to me....they hold a special place in their
human
friends hearts, mean a great deal to them, ...all we ask is you
treat them
with respect, care and pay attention to each animal being uniquely
different
so look at their symptoms and pay attention to detail....if need
be ask
whether money is an issue...you may be surprised that there are
some of us
out here for whom we would spend whatever it takes to make our
friends
feel
well again and whole....or at least help them to feel good as we
would our
human friends and relatives.

YES .VETS NOTE ( especially British ones)


I'm so sorry you two have had to fight so to get your dear pets looked
after. I think there might be a partial explanation in what a friend
of mine in US Vet school once told me. He said, "I am going into large
animal vetrinary medicine." I asked why large animals and he said "in
the US in small animal practice you have to be a psychologist for the
pet owners most of the time. I just want to do medicine."

I think in the US in urban areas there are more of the types of vets
who understand what our pets mean to us and make lots of money on it,
whether they care or not.

In more rural areas (and perhaps in the UK too?) vets who mostly work
on livestock etc. are not really accustomed to or trained to deal with
animals who are really more like humans to us.

Just a thought.

My "bottom line" with vets, doctors, etc is this: they work for ME. If
I don't like ANYTHING about them I move on to another that I like
better. But again, this is one of the positive things (among a long
list of negatives) that comes along with living in a large US city.

Linda Hartley wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

Please if you are going to be a Vet ....you must like animals and
continue to like them throughut your career as one...never for a
moment forget these ar sentient beings.
Apologies for those of you who think I am nuts but I care
passionately about animals...who cannot speak up for
themselves..so someone has to.


I couldn't read your whole post (ran to gether) but got the gist of it.
When my favorite vet at the practice left, I was really annoyed. She
was recommended by a friend and the one who discovered the kidney
disease in Kami. This happened when I wanted to get her dental and she
insisted that they do a senior panel on her. After the discovery, she
suggested we could use a different anesthesia that would protect her
kidneys, etc., and then she made a list of food we could try in order
to get Kami to eat a proper CRF diet.

I started seeing another doctor. He didn't have a strong accent, but a
harsher sounding one (Israel), and he seemed a little distant and
matter-of-fact. But after a while I noticed he wasn't always trying to
"sell" me on things. The last time I asked him about dental, he looked
and said there was some tartar, but no need. When her punctal ducts
plugged, he said he could try flushing them, but gave it a 50/50 chance
of success which he didn't think was worth the rick under anesthesia,
we could try it when we eventually did a dental. And so on.

I was going to call for an appointment for her yearly exam today and
didn't have the number. I plopped his name into Google figuring it
would come up on a directory, but I got two articles that discussed him
and others volunteering to spay and neuter ferals in a special program
out her (one was about doing a record 93 in a day for the program). I
always got the impression he was a dog person and only dealt with cats
out of professional necessity. I never would have believed he actually
volunteered time or anything else for cats. Anyway, at the exam he
said she looked great for her age and recommended against a dental.
Not because she's doing badly, but because she's doing so well. He
didn't want to mess with a good thing. This also nixed the duct
flushing, but he said it's not an urgent matter, just an annoyance.

He picked at a couple of her teeth, said she was a very good girl and
thought she could be done without anesthesia, giving me the number of a
group that does it. I asked him about the anesthesia used by the other
vet and said a name for what it might have been (began with a "p"--
"Prop"something, then looked at her chart. Yes, that was it, but he
said he definitely doesn't like to use it on cats and wouldn't use it
on Kami. In effect, he turned away a few hundred dollars today.

I don't think you should let one, or even six, bets color your view of
an entire industry. Common sense and second opinions, not to mention a
right to take you business wherever you please could turn up the gems
you're looking for.

_____________

On a slightly different subject, I was half right about sub-q for the
car trip. I told him we were traveling by car and he didn't think of
her not eating or drinking until I brought it up. He didn't think it
was too bad, didn't believe it was worth risking. He said though she
doesn't need it at this stage, he suggested I learn to give sub-qs and
do it the night before we go, and when we arrive at the hotel, and once
more at the destination, and again if she's having trouble adjusting
and won't drink. After her blood draw, a tech came him and showed me
how. Kami didn't fight it, but I can still imagine what it would be
like at home. Seems easy enough if she's cooperative and I will pick
up supplies closer to the date and do one or two practices before
hitting the road.

I asked him if he knew of a good vet in the new locale. He said he
wished he did, because he'd like to see Kami get the best care. He
used to live out there, so I told him if he ever wants to move back,
I'll leave my number...


--
BrandyÂ*Â*Alexandre®
http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx
Well, would you?

Linda Hartley wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

Please if you are going to be a Vet ....you must like animals and
continue to like them throughut your career as one...never for a
moment forget these ar sentient beings.
Apologies for those of you who think I am nuts but I care
passionately about animals...who cannot speak up for
themselves..so someone has to.


I couldn't read your whole post (ran to gether) but got the gist of it.
When my favorite vet at the practice left, I was really annoyed. She
was recommended by a friend and the one who discovered the kidney
disease in Kami. This happened when I wanted to get her dental and she
insisted that they do a senior panel on her. After the discovery, she
suggested we could use a different anesthesia that would protect her
kidneys, etc., and then she made a list of food we could try in order
to get Kami to eat a proper CRF diet.

I started seeing another doctor. He didn't have a strong accent, but a
harsher sounding one (Israel), and he seemed a little distant and
matter-of-fact. But after a while I noticed he wasn't always trying to
"sell" me on things. The last time I asked him about dental, he looked
and said there was some tartar, but no need. When her punctal ducts
plugged, he said he could try flushing them, but gave it a 50/50 chance
of success which he didn't think was worth the rick under anesthesia,
we could try it when we eventually did a dental. And so on.

I was going to call for an appointment for her yearly exam today and
didn't have the number. I plopped his name into Google figuring it
would come up on a directory, but I got two articles that discussed him
and others volunteering to spay and neuter ferals in a special program
out her (one was about doing a record 93 in a day for the program). I
always got the impression he was a dog person and only dealt with cats
out of professional necessity. I never would have believed he actually
volunteered time or anything else for cats. Anyway, at the exam he
said she looked great for her age and recommended against a dental.
Not because she's doing badly, but because she's doing so well. He
didn't want to mess with a good thing. This also nixed the duct
flushing, but he said it's not an urgent matter, just an annoyance.

He picked at a couple of her teeth, said she was a very good girl and
thought she could be done without anesthesia, giving me the number of a
group that does it. I asked him about the anesthesia used by the other
vet and said a name for what it might have been (began with a "p"--
"Prop"something, then looked at her chart. Yes, that was it, but he
said he definitely doesn't like to use it on cats and wouldn't use it
on Kami. In effect, he turned away a few hundred dollars today.

I don't think you should let one, or even six, bets color your view of
an entire industry. Common sense and second opinions, not to mention a
right to take you business wherever you please could turn up the gems
you're looking for.

_____________

On a slightly different subject, I was half right about sub-q for the
car trip. I told him we were traveling by car and he didn't think of
her not eating or drinking until I brought it up. He didn't think it
was too bad, didn't believe it was worth risking. He said though she
doesn't need it at this stage, he suggested I learn to give sub-qs and
do it the night before we go, and when we arrive at the hotel, and once
more at the destination, and again if she's having trouble adjusting
and won't drink. After her blood draw, a tech came him and showed me
how. Kami didn't fight it, but I can still imagine what it would be
like at home. Seems easy enough if she's cooperative and I will pick
up supplies closer to the date and do one or two practices before
hitting the road.

I asked him if he knew of a good vet in the new locale. He said he
wished he did, because he'd like to see Kami get the best care. He
used to live out there, so I told him if he ever wants to move back,
I'll leave my number...


--
BrandyÂ*Â*Alexandre®
http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx
Well, would you?

Another thing is people expect vets to be able to work miracles.
Sometimes there isn't anything more you can do for an animal. A good
vet will tell you this outright. A not-so-good vet will keep taking
your money. It's hard to tell the difference, sometimes.

-L.

I think a lot of what vets do is guesswork...well, human docs also, but vets
have the distinct disadvantage of not being able to talk to their patients, ask
them how they feel, where it hurts, etc. I think it would be very frustrating.

When I was in my early 20s and had just moved to Phoenix (almost 30 years ago
now) and was looking for a job, I applied with a vet. I don't even remember if
it was as a tech or office help or what but I went to his house and he and his
wife interviewed me. I told him how much I loved animals, in an effort to get
the job, and he told me that wasn't really a good thing in this case...that
it's better to remain detached and impersonal when dealing with the animals so
you don't get upset by what you deal with. I didn't get the job and it has
always made me wonder, with every vet I have ever gone to, if they care about
animals at all or if it's just a job. I suppose it's some of each but that
comment has stuck with me all this time...sometimes I look at my vet and wonder
if he gives a crap at all and if he cares about his own pets the way I care
about mine.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

Another thing is people expect vets to be able to work miracles.
Sometimes there isn't anything more you can do for an animal. A good
vet will tell you this outright. A not-so-good vet will keep taking
your money. It's hard to tell the difference, sometimes.

-L.

I think a lot of what vets do is guesswork...well, human docs also, but vets
have the distinct disadvantage of not being able to talk to their patients, ask
them how they feel, where it hurts, etc. I think it would be very frustrating.

When I was in my early 20s and had just moved to Phoenix (almost 30 years ago
now) and was looking for a job, I applied with a vet. I don't even remember if
it was as a tech or office help or what but I went to his house and he and his
wife interviewed me. I told him how much I loved animals, in an effort to get
the job, and he told me that wasn't really a good thing in this case...that
it's better to remain detached and impersonal when dealing with the animals so
you don't get upset by what you deal with. I didn't get the job and it has
always made me wonder, with every vet I have ever gone to, if they care about
animals at all or if it's just a job. I suppose it's some of each but that
comment has stuck with me all this time...sometimes I look at my vet and wonder
if he gives a crap at all and if he cares about his own pets the way I care
about mine.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

I think a lot of what vets do is guesswork...well, human docs also, but vets
have the distinct disadvantage of not being able to talk to their patients, ask
them how they feel, where it hurts, etc. I think it would be very frustrating.


I think a good vet knows typical behavior and has a good idea of what
to ask. And also knows enough to trust the owners.

When my 11 year old cat was just a kitten, she got sick. To me, she
was quite lethargic, but this was because she was overly active,
troublesome kitten. At the vet's office, she didn't show any problems
except being dehydrated. But I was really worried - I knew something
was very wrong. He went with his gut and prescribed antibiotics even
though he didn't see anything wrong. He figured she might have a
virus, and this would prevent secondary infection. She was feeling
much better after that, and the next day, I discovered the problem.
Two extremely infected ears. You see, this kitten had the fluffiest
ears on earth, and you could not see the infected wounds on them. I
mentioned them to my sister, and she couldn't find them until I
pointed them out. The larger one was the size of a dime and you could
see a ring of pus. The antibiotics were exactly what she needed, so
his gut instinct had been correct. A week later, I saw herharrassing
my older cat, who then bit her on the ear. So, I'm pretty sure that
that notch on my cat's ear is a reminder of my first cat.

I have also had other times where the vet was really good and listened
to me. I have a sheltie who yelped when I was just barely squeezed
her. She was on the couch facing me, and I had my hands on her sides
and pulled her to me. I did not squeeze hard, and no healthy dog would
have yelped. Knowing she had been abused and kicked by her previous
owner, I figured she had an old injury, maybe a broken rib or
something. So, I took her to the vet to be x-rayed. I just wanted to
know so I didn't hurt her again. The vet listened, asked questions,
but found nothing. He did the x-ray anyway and discovered an enlarged
heart.


I think a good vet has to be able to read the animals as best they can
as well as get an idea of whether they can trust what the human says.
Some people may really be tuned into their animal and can honestly
give an accurate statement of the health and behavior, while some
people may have no clue.

For example, I have been very tuned to my cats and dogs, and the vets
have been surprised at how early I have caught the problems. I just
know when something is wrong.

I always knew I knew them well, but I didn't realize how much until I
got a stray who had been hit by a car. I paid the vet bill so that I
could keep him. He had a broken jaw, an eye that was blinded and had
to be sewn shut til the tear ducts worked again, and some othe
problems. He was very underweight, and was approximately 8 months old.
At the time, he seemed to be improving and did gain weight for a
little while. He then went through several days of getting sick, went
back to the vet a couple times, and seemed to be on the mend. Then he
took a turn for the worse and died in the middle of the night. I was
hoping to get him to the vet before it opened, but he didn't make it.
I only had him for 2 weeks. I know I did the best I could, but I am
sure I would have done things differently if I had known him prior to
bieng hit by a car. I have no idea what he was like on a good day, so
while he seemed happy and doing well, he could have been very stoic.
In this case, I was just like a vet, guessing how he felt, and not
really knowing him as an individual. And sometimes, we guess wrong.



always made me wonder, with every vet I have ever gone to, if they care about
animals at all or if it's just a job. I suppose it's some of each but that
comment has stuck with me all this time...sometimes I look at my vet and wonder
if he gives a crap at all and if he cares about his own pets the way I care
about mine.

I do think that most of them care very much. And I admire for them
being able to do such a tough job. But I suspect that they go through
a lot of assistants, because many thin it is ideal to help animals and
just aren't tough enough.

When I was young, I wanted to be a vet. Then I learned that you have
to put down animals. I understand the need, and I have made the choice
myself twice. But there is no way that I could physcially do it myself
without crying, and you can't have the vet crying on the clients.

When I took my dog into be put down, the vet came out and sadly said
this was his 5th dog that day. As much as I was upset over losing my
dog, I felt so bad for him. What a crappy day. They must have some
great highs when they save lives, but they must have a lot of bad lows
too. Especially, when you think of all the people who don't recognize
problems until they are too late, or they put off care for one reason
or another. Or the people who want the animal put down for
convenience. It must be very hard for them to deal with that on a
daily basis.


Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

I think a lot of what vets do is guesswork...well, human docs also, but vets
have the distinct disadvantage of not being able to talk to their patients, ask
them how they feel, where it hurts, etc. I think it would be very frustrating.


I think a good vet knows typical behavior and has a good idea of what
to ask. And also knows enough to trust the owners.

When my 11 year old cat was just a kitten, she got sick. To me, she
was quite lethargic, but this was because she was overly active,
troublesome kitten. At the vet's office, she didn't show any problems
except being dehydrated. But I was really worried - I knew something
was very wrong. He went with his gut and prescribed antibiotics even
though he didn't see anything wrong. He figured she might have a
virus, and this would prevent secondary infection. She was feeling
much better after that, and the next day, I discovered the problem.
Two extremely infected ears. You see, this kitten had the fluffiest
ears on earth, and you could not see the infected wounds on them. I
mentioned them to my sister, and she couldn't find them until I
pointed them out. The larger one was the size of a dime and you could
see a ring of pus. The antibiotics were exactly what she needed, so
his gut instinct had been correct. A week later, I saw herharrassing
my older cat, who then bit her on the ear. So, I'm pretty sure that
that notch on my cat's ear is a reminder of my first cat.

I have also had other times where the vet was really good and listened
to me. I have a sheltie who yelped when I was just barely squeezed
her. She was on the couch facing me, and I had my hands on her sides
and pulled her to me. I did not squeeze hard, and no healthy dog would
have yelped. Knowing she had been abused and kicked by her previous
owner, I figured she had an old injury, maybe a broken rib or
something. So, I took her to the vet to be x-rayed. I just wanted to
know so I didn't hurt her again. The vet listened, asked questions,
but found nothing. He did the x-ray anyway and discovered an enlarged
heart.


I think a good vet has to be able to read the animals as best they can
as well as get an idea of whether they can trust what the human says.
Some people may really be tuned into their animal and can honestly
give an accurate statement of the health and behavior, while some
people may have no clue.

For example, I have been very tuned to my cats and dogs, and the vets
have been surprised at how early I have caught the problems. I just
know when something is wrong.

I always knew I knew them well, but I didn't realize how much until I
got a stray who had been hit by a car. I paid the vet bill so that I
could keep him. He had a broken jaw, an eye that was blinded and had
to be sewn shut til the tear ducts worked again, and some othe
problems. He was very underweight, and was approximately 8 months old.
At the time, he seemed to be improving and did gain weight for a
little while. He then went through several days of getting sick, went
back to the vet a couple times, and seemed to be on the mend. Then he
took a turn for the worse and died in the middle of the night. I was
hoping to get him to the vet before it opened, but he didn't make it.
I only had him for 2 weeks. I know I did the best I could, but I am
sure I would have done things differently if I had known him prior to
bieng hit by a car. I have no idea what he was like on a good day, so
while he seemed happy and doing well, he could have been very stoic.
In this case, I was just like a vet, guessing how he felt, and not
really knowing him as an individual. And sometimes, we guess wrong.



always made me wonder, with every vet I have ever gone to, if they care about
animals at all or if it's just a job. I suppose it's some of each but that
comment has stuck with me all this time...sometimes I look at my vet and wonder
if he gives a crap at all and if he cares about his own pets the way I care
about mine.

I do think that most of them care very much. And I admire for them
being able to do such a tough job. But I suspect that they go through
a lot of assistants, because many thin it is ideal to help animals and
just aren't tough enough.

When I was young, I wanted to be a vet. Then I learned that you have
to put down animals. I understand the need, and I have made the choice
myself twice. But there is no way that I could physcially do it myself
without crying, and you can't have the vet crying on the clients.

When I took my dog into be put down, the vet came out and sadly said
this was his 5th dog that day. As much as I was upset over losing my
dog, I felt so bad for him. What a crappy day. They must have some
great highs when they save lives, but they must have a lot of bad lows
too. Especially, when you think of all the people who don't recognize
problems until they are too late, or they put off care for one reason
or another. Or the people who want the animal put down for
convenience. It must be very hard for them to deal with that on a
daily basis.


Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

I suppose it's some of each but that
comment has stuck with me all this time...sometimes I look at my vet and
wonder
if he gives a crap at all and if he cares about his own pets the way I care
about mine.

Over the last four years I've been able to tell which vets really give a crap
by the way they treat us when we bring in shelter cats. Some would charge us
full price. Some would treat the cat llike a throwaway. One jewel this month
re-broke and re-set a Border Collie's leg, put a pin in it, and treated the dog
like a $5,000 patient. He charged us nothing. What goes around comes around,
and we have been able to send many, many new clients to the vets who help and
show compassion to our animals. The others we don't criticize to the public, of
course, but we never recommend them either.
Sherry

I suppose it's some of each but that
comment has stuck with me all this time...sometimes I look at my vet and
wonder
if he gives a crap at all and if he cares about his own pets the way I care
about mine.

Over the last four years I've been able to tell which vets really give a crap
by the way they treat us when we bring in shelter cats. Some would charge us
full price. Some would treat the cat llike a throwaway. One jewel this month
re-broke and re-set a Border Collie's leg, put a pin in it, and treated the dog
like a $5,000 patient. He charged us nothing. What goes around comes around,
and we have been able to send many, many new clients to the vets who help and
show compassion to our animals. The others we don't criticize to the public, of
course, but we never recommend them either.
Sherry

From: itter (MacCandace)

Another thing is people expect vets to be able to work miracles.
Sometimes there isn't anything more you can do for an animal. A good
vet will tell you this outright. A not-so-good vet will keep taking
your money. It's hard to tell the difference, sometimes.

-L.

I think a lot of what vets do is guesswork...well, human docs also, but vets
have the distinct disadvantage of not being able to talk to their patients,
ask
them how they feel, where it hurts, etc. I think it would be very
frustrating.

When I was in my early 20s and had just moved to Phoenix (almost 30 years ago
now) and was looking for a job, I applied with a vet. I don't even remember
if
it was as a tech or office help or what but I went to his house and he and
his
wife interviewed me. I told him how much I loved animals, in an effort to
get
the job, and he told me that wasn't really a good thing in this case...that
it's better to remain detached and impersonal when dealing with the animals
so
you don't get upset by what you deal with. I didn't get the job and it has
always made me wonder, with every vet I have ever gone to, if they care about
animals at all or if it's just a job. I suppose it's some of each but that
comment has stuck with me all this time...sometimes I look at my vet and
wonder
if he gives a crap at all and if he cares about his own pets the way I care
about mine.

Candace

Yeah, good question. What I will never understand is how vets can declaw cats.
If they truly cared about the health and well-being of the cat, they could
never declaw it, you know?

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm