OT. Rant

On 19 Nov 2004 08:12:00 GMT, omcom
(dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote:

I think this country must be pretty open-minded and
unbiased to elect someone like her for pres. Oh, and she has two cats! )



Anyone wanting to emigrate to Finland, raise your hand! :-) Finland does seem
remarkably *civilised*

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
**$o m$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

I'd move there tomorrow if I wasn't allergic to cold! ;-)

Ginger-lyn

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 01:37:48 -0000, "Christina Websell"
wrote:

I'm very upset. I've mailed for quite a few years to an American woman that
I knew from my chicken group. We got on pretty well.
Last year she forwarded me a mail that I considered to be racist, but it was
only a few hours before I was due to fly to visit my German friend, so I
mailed a disapproving reply and said I'd like to discuss it with her when I
got back. I never did.

A few weeks ago she started to forward me pro-Bush mails. Well, I'm sorry,
but he seems to be a bit shall we say intellectually challenged, so I said
so.

But now, she is sending what seems to some sort of fundamental Christian
mails to me. Extremely racist, homophobic and right wing. I have
challenged her on every mail and she just got cross and said I was a stupid
liberal. There is more, but I won't bore you with it. I just won't have
her tell me that she refuses to let anyone into America and if so they must
speak English. For G's sake. If she was true to her word she ought to
speak Native American. It isn't her country, after all.

I told her I don't want to have a friend who thinks like this. She told me
she doesn't want to have a friend that is ineducable about what is going on
in America.

It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot tolerate a
racist and bigot. She thinks she is right, and I think I am right.
I can't see that being a racist and a bigot is right in any country. She
quotes the Bible at me. I told her that I didn't think God was a bigot.
This is hard for me. We have been friends, and we are falling out about
Bush. That was the first thing. I'll never compromise about the other
racism and homophobic stuff.
It might be the end of our friendship.

Tweed

{{{Tweed}}}

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It is always painful to lose
a friend, especially over differing attitudes or politics. But you
have to figure out whether your values and beliefs are more important
than the friendship.

As I get older, there are some things that I find are no longer worth
arguing about. At the same time, there are other beliefs so dear to
my heart that I feel I cannot tolerate a relationship with those who
feel differently (the big one in my life being, of course, cats -- all
animals, really. If you neglect or abuse animals, you are NOT going
to be a friend of mine. Period.).

Bottom line, I guess, is if there is no way to reasonably discuss this
with your friend, there is probably nowhere for this friendship to go.

Best of luck to you,

Ginger-lyn

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 01:37:48 -0000, "Christina Websell"
wrote:

I'm very upset. I've mailed for quite a few years to an American woman that
I knew from my chicken group. We got on pretty well.
Last year she forwarded me a mail that I considered to be racist, but it was
only a few hours before I was due to fly to visit my German friend, so I
mailed a disapproving reply and said I'd like to discuss it with her when I
got back. I never did.

A few weeks ago she started to forward me pro-Bush mails. Well, I'm sorry,
but he seems to be a bit shall we say intellectually challenged, so I said
so.

But now, she is sending what seems to some sort of fundamental Christian
mails to me. Extremely racist, homophobic and right wing. I have
challenged her on every mail and she just got cross and said I was a stupid
liberal. There is more, but I won't bore you with it. I just won't have
her tell me that she refuses to let anyone into America and if so they must
speak English. For G's sake. If she was true to her word she ought to
speak Native American. It isn't her country, after all.

I told her I don't want to have a friend who thinks like this. She told me
she doesn't want to have a friend that is ineducable about what is going on
in America.

It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot tolerate a
racist and bigot. She thinks she is right, and I think I am right.
I can't see that being a racist and a bigot is right in any country. She
quotes the Bible at me. I told her that I didn't think God was a bigot.
This is hard for me. We have been friends, and we are falling out about
Bush. That was the first thing. I'll never compromise about the other
racism and homophobic stuff.
It might be the end of our friendship.

Tweed

{{{Tweed}}}

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It is always painful to lose
a friend, especially over differing attitudes or politics. But you
have to figure out whether your values and beliefs are more important
than the friendship.

As I get older, there are some things that I find are no longer worth
arguing about. At the same time, there are other beliefs so dear to
my heart that I feel I cannot tolerate a relationship with those who
feel differently (the big one in my life being, of course, cats -- all
animals, really. If you neglect or abuse animals, you are NOT going
to be a friend of mine. Period.).

Bottom line, I guess, is if there is no way to reasonably discuss this
with your friend, there is probably nowhere for this friendship to go.

Best of luck to you,

Ginger-lyn

Christina Websell wrote:
snip
It might be the end of our friendship.

Tweed

I'm sorry to hear that Tweed, but that woman sounds seriously disturbed
and if you continue contact she will upset you again.
--
Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
A house is not a home, without a cat.

Christina Websell wrote:
snip
It might be the end of our friendship.

Tweed

I'm sorry to hear that Tweed, but that woman sounds seriously disturbed
and if you continue contact she will upset you again.
--
Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
A house is not a home, without a cat.

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:

Anyone wanting to emigrate to Finland, raise your hand! :-) Finland
does seem remarkably *civilised*

Cheers, helen s

I think I just saw a black paw being raised. :-)
--
Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
A house is not a home, without a cat.

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:

Anyone wanting to emigrate to Finland, raise your hand! :-) Finland
does seem remarkably *civilised*

Cheers, helen s

I think I just saw a black paw being raised. :-)
--
Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
A house is not a home, without a cat.

"Kreisleriana" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 02:53:25 GMT, Victor Martinez
yodeled:

Christina Websell wrote:
It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot tolerate a
racist and bigot. She thinks she is right, and I think I am right.

Racism and bigotry are never right. Never. They have always been used as
an excuse to opress the minority (and sometimes even a weak majority) by
those in power.
I just told Tom that if his sister and her husband voted for the
anti-gay ammendment in their state's election, then they are not welcome
in our house. I'm sorry, but if you find my relationship so repugnant,
that you would vote to inscribe discrimination in your state's
constitution, then I do not want to welcome you into my house.
As an aside, the bible has been used throughout history to justify and
defend many horrible things, from the crusades to slavery in the US and
the oppresion of women.


Did it ever occur to these people that the Biblical model for marriage
is NOT, as they claim, "One Man, One Woman"? It is One Man, Several
Women.

Even that depends on which particular part of the Bible one is referencing.

Back when the vast majority of men were off fighting, labouring or otherwise
supporting away from home, it made a degree of sense for the men left behind
to have a number of wives. As women weren't allowed to live independant
lives, the only means of survival was to be a wife, even if it was a second
or third wife. And since man many men would die in wars, there was a great
excess of women folk, which also encouraged multiple wife households. And of
course, biologically, the tribe only neesds a few men to keep the whole
tribe going - its the shortage of women that threaten the long term
survivability of the clan.

I know Islam allows up to 4 wives on the condition that you can afford to
support all you wives and all you children, and that you treat them all
equally. Traditionally, the first wife also has to approve of any subsequent
ones. While odd to us, there are merits to the arrangement - there are more
people to share the chores with. There are more people to help with
childminding, and there is company and support when the husband is absent.
Of course, there are difficulties, too, but there are in any relationship or
family.

The nuclear family, with just the father, mother and children is a
relatively modern occurance, and just having a kid myself, I am sure that
having a large extended family that would all be happy to help raise Cary
would certainly have madethings easier. But then I guess I would have to see
far more of my in-laws...... swings & roundabouts!

Yowie


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"Kreisleriana" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 02:53:25 GMT, Victor Martinez
yodeled:

Christina Websell wrote:
It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot tolerate a
racist and bigot. She thinks she is right, and I think I am right.

Racism and bigotry are never right. Never. They have always been used as
an excuse to opress the minority (and sometimes even a weak majority) by
those in power.
I just told Tom that if his sister and her husband voted for the
anti-gay ammendment in their state's election, then they are not welcome
in our house. I'm sorry, but if you find my relationship so repugnant,
that you would vote to inscribe discrimination in your state's
constitution, then I do not want to welcome you into my house.
As an aside, the bible has been used throughout history to justify and
defend many horrible things, from the crusades to slavery in the US and
the oppresion of women.


Did it ever occur to these people that the Biblical model for marriage
is NOT, as they claim, "One Man, One Woman"? It is One Man, Several
Women.

Even that depends on which particular part of the Bible one is referencing.

Back when the vast majority of men were off fighting, labouring or otherwise
supporting away from home, it made a degree of sense for the men left behind
to have a number of wives. As women weren't allowed to live independant
lives, the only means of survival was to be a wife, even if it was a second
or third wife. And since man many men would die in wars, there was a great
excess of women folk, which also encouraged multiple wife households. And of
course, biologically, the tribe only neesds a few men to keep the whole
tribe going - its the shortage of women that threaten the long term
survivability of the clan.

I know Islam allows up to 4 wives on the condition that you can afford to
support all you wives and all you children, and that you treat them all
equally. Traditionally, the first wife also has to approve of any subsequent
ones. While odd to us, there are merits to the arrangement - there are more
people to share the chores with. There are more people to help with
childminding, and there is company and support when the husband is absent.
Of course, there are difficulties, too, but there are in any relationship or
family.

The nuclear family, with just the father, mother and children is a
relatively modern occurance, and just having a kid myself, I am sure that
having a large extended family that would all be happy to help raise Cary
would certainly have madethings easier. But then I guess I would have to see
far more of my in-laws...... swings & roundabouts!

Yowie


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.791 / Virus Database: 535 - Release Date: 8/11/04

Yowie wrote:

"Yoj" wrote in message
. com...
"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:
It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot
tolerate a
racist and bigot. She thinks she is right, and I think I am right.

Racism and bigotry are never right. Never. They have always been used
as
an excuse to opress the minority (and sometimes even a weak majority)
by
those in power.
I just told Tom that if his sister and her husband voted for the
anti-gay ammendment in their state's election, then they are not
welcome
in our house. I'm sorry, but if you find my relationship so repugnant,
that you would vote to inscribe discrimination in your state's
constitution, then I do not want to welcome you into my house.
As an aside, the bible has been used throughout history to justify and
defend many horrible things, from the crusades to slavery in the US
and
the oppresion of women.

--
Victor Martinez

It's really had to have such bigotry in your own family, or its
equivalent. You're right about the Bible. It can be, and has been,
used to prove and/or justify just about everything. :-(

Which is a shame, because if you boil the message it all down, the theme of
the second half at least is "love each other like I love you "(ie, be
excellent to each other and party on dudes). Whether or not you believe the
Bible to be anythign from the literal word of the Ultimate Deity to just
another book, its hard to argue with a message that calls us all to love
each other equally (IMHO, anyway)

Its also a shame that a friendship can't cope with a bit of disagreement.
There are people here whose views are not my own on any number of different
things (from as far-reaching as poitics and religion to the silly things
like fruit and vegetable preferences), but I would still be happy to call
them friends - and good friends atthat. Here and there, I've even had
friendly discussions about our different views. I mean, I'm just as stupid
and pigheaded about my hot-buttons as anyone is about theirs, but if two (or
more) people value their friendship there are ways of dealing with differing
opinions. I don't think your so-called friend had much respect for your
friendship, but perhaps it was not built on the most solid foundations
anyway.

Yowie

I agree with Yowie here. Friendships are really important and you
should be able to discuss anything regardless of your differing
viewpoints. You must have had a lot of mutual interests together to
form this friendship.

I rarely reveal my political or religious beliefs unless I can have an
analytical and sensible conversation about them. I'd just tell her
that you don't want to discuss the subjects and get onto the topics that
brought you together in the first place.

Bev

I think the thing missing here on your friend's part is 'tact'
The email of the species is more deadly than the mail.