Advice on Shadow, Pls

Shadow has been here a while now, and only once has she used a litterbox,
and that was forNo.1s. She won't go in any box either of the other cats use,
and Pickle thinks its his Bast given right to 'christen' every clean box. I
thought she'd taken to doing her business in the small side of the kitchen
sink. gross, yes, but dealable with.

But no.

Last night we were awoken by wails of terror and horror from Cary.

He had woken up to discover he was smothered in cat poo.

She had gone in his bed and slyly covered the mess (a particularly slurpy
one) she'd made with his blanket.

He'd gotten into bed and hadn't noticed straight away.

To say he was traumatised is an understatement. He's been awake *all night*
(as have we) and is refusing to go back to sleep.

Joel is a pretty easy going and understanding man, but I can *fully*
understand his anger toward Shadow at this point. Crapping in the beds is
just NOT ON. Crapping in Cary's bed is REALLY NOT ON. I am *hoping* this
doesn't mean that he will have 'poo' issues for the rest of his life, but
who knows the ramifications?

So I need your advice.

I can't seperate Shadow from the rest of the cats so she can have her own
box. The only room that that could be done with is the bathroom, and it
seems mean to lock her up in there all day, and besides, thats where Pickle
& Suki go to drink. It would also mean she doesn't get any passing pettin's
as she does now.

She desperately wants to go outside. Despite my misgivings about outside
cats, and the increased risk of skin cancer, I wonder whether the risk of a
shorter but far happier life may be worth it.

Or perhaps she really needs to be an only cat in a house without children.
The crap on Cary's bed may well have been her 'revenge' for him being 4 (he
tends to 'love' Pickle and leave Shadow alone as she growls at him).

She can be very sweet and loving, but also *very* agressive if she's
annoyed, she doesn't give a warning 'bap' or a light nibble before launching
into a fully fledged ally cat fight with whatever is the source of her ire.
Thankfuly she growls first, so there is some sign, but full scale war from
'happy and purring' is a bit intimidating, which is why Cary is not allowed
to play with her (Pickle is the best, he 'mouths' and runs off).

So,Im not real sure what to do with her. As far as Joel is concerned, she's
on her second of three strikes (and your out), having nearly taken out his
eye on the second day we had her.

Advice on what do, and purrs that she'll mellow and use the boxes provided
wouldn't go astray either.

Yowie

Yowie wrote:

Last night we were awoken by wails of terror and horror from Cary.

He had woken up to discover he was smothered in cat poo.

She had gone in his bed and slyly covered the mess (a particularly slurpy
one) she'd made with his blanket.

He'd gotten into bed and hadn't noticed straight away.

To say he was traumatised is an understatement. He's been awake *all night*
(as have we) and is refusing to go back to sleep.

UGH, poor Cary!! I would be traumatized by that, too, and I'm not
4 years old! That's really gross.

So I need your advice.

I can't seperate Shadow from the rest of the cats so she can have her own
box. The only room that that could be done with is the bathroom, and it
seems mean to lock her up in there all day, and besides, thats where Pickle
& Suki go to drink. It would also mean she doesn't get any passing pettin's
as she does now.

She desperately wants to go outside. Despite my misgivings about outside
cats, and the increased risk of skin cancer, I wonder whether the risk of a
shorter but far happier life may be worth it.

Well, I know this won't be a popular view on this newsgroup, but I
would probably allow her to be an indoor/outdoor cat. Aside from the poo
issues, I happen to think it's cruel to keep a cat inside when it clearly
wants to go out. (Of course, my opinion plus $3.50 in American money
will get you a latte, but that's what you asked for... Sorry I can't
include the latte. )

I prefer to decide based on the individual cat's needs and wants. I guess
if I lived on an extremely busy street or in a very rough neighborhood,
I would feel forced to keep all my cats indoors. But I live in a nice,
residential area where there are several indoor/outdoor kitties, and in
the 9 years I've lived there, all the cats I've known in the neighborhood
are still alive & kicking.

Smudge *needs* to be able to go out. It would really hurt my heart to
keep her trapped indoors. Roxy is curious about the outdoors - she
always peers out when I open the door. But she doesn't seem to have a
mandate about it, so I don't encourage her. Licky is like Enfilade's
Smokey: Outdoors? No thank you. So I have no qualms about keeping them
inside. Sounds like Shadow is like Smudge.

I'm aware of the skin cancer issue, and unfortunately you live in one
of the worst places in the world for UV exposure. And you can't
exactly put sunblock lotion on a cat. :-/ But there are many risks
involved with going outdoors. You would just have to be prepared for
the possibility of high vet bills if she did get skin cancer, or hit
by a car, etc. I just wonder if avoiding all that is worth it for a
cat like Shadow. Life could be long and miserable, or it could be
shorter but at least more satisfying.

There's also the option of rehoming her. Maybe someone with a yard that
has some shade, where they could build an enclosure? At least she'd be
outside, if not free to go where she pleased. I agree on the one-cat
idea, too.

Sorry I don't have "this is what you must do" kind of advice. But it
seems clear that keeping her indoors at your place is NOT an option.

Good luck and purrs for a good solution.

--
Joyce

To email me, remove the triple-X from my user name. ^..^

wrote in message
...
Yowie wrote:

Last night we were awoken by wails of terror and horror from Cary.

He had woken up to discover he was smothered in cat poo.

She had gone in his bed and slyly covered the mess (a particularly
slurpy
one) she'd made with his blanket.

He'd gotten into bed and hadn't noticed straight away.

To say he was traumatised is an understatement. He's been awake *all
night*
(as have we) and is refusing to go back to sleep.

UGH, poor Cary!! I would be traumatized by that, too, and I'm not
4 years old! That's really gross.

So I need your advice.

I can't seperate Shadow from the rest of the cats so she can have her
own
box. The only room that that could be done with is the bathroom, and it
seems mean to lock her up in there all day, and besides, thats where
Pickle
& Suki go to drink. It would also mean she doesn't get any passing
pettin's
as she does now.

She desperately wants to go outside. Despite my misgivings about outside
cats, and the increased risk of skin cancer, I wonder whether the risk
of a
shorter but far happier life may be worth it.

Well, I know this won't be a popular view on this newsgroup, but I
would probably allow her to be an indoor/outdoor cat. Aside from the poo
issues, I happen to think it's cruel to keep a cat inside when it clearly
wants to go out. (Of course, my opinion plus $3.50 in American money
will get you a latte, but that's what you asked for... Sorry I can't
include the latte. )

I prefer to decide based on the individual cat's needs and wants. I guess
if I lived on an extremely busy street or in a very rough neighborhood,
I would feel forced to keep all my cats indoors. But I live in a nice,
residential area where there are several indoor/outdoor kitties, and in
the 9 years I've lived there, all the cats I've known in the neighborhood
are still alive & kicking.

Smudge *needs* to be able to go out. It would really hurt my heart to
keep her trapped indoors. Roxy is curious about the outdoors - she
always peers out when I open the door. But she doesn't seem to have a
mandate about it, so I don't encourage her. Licky is like Enfilade's
Smokey: Outdoors? No thank you. So I have no qualms about keeping them
inside. Sounds like Shadow is like Smudge.

I'm aware of the skin cancer issue, and unfortunately you live in one
of the worst places in the world for UV exposure. And you can't
exactly put sunblock lotion on a cat. :-/ But there are many risks
involved with going outdoors. You would just have to be prepared for
the possibility of high vet bills if she did get skin cancer, or hit
by a car, etc. I just wonder if avoiding all that is worth it for a
cat like Shadow. Life could be long and miserable, or it could be
shorter but at least more satisfying.

There's also the option of rehoming her. Maybe someone with a yard that
has some shade, where they could build an enclosure? At least she'd be
outside, if not free to go where she pleased. I agree on the one-cat
idea, too.

Sorry I don't have "this is what you must do" kind of advice. But it
seems clear that keeping her indoors at your place is NOT an option.

Good luck and purrs for a good solution.

--
Joyce

I tend to agree with you, Joyce. My cats are indoor/outdoor. At one point
I tried keeping a couple of cats, who were used to going out, in all the
time, and they were miserable.

I don't think Yowie wanted "this is what you must do" advice. She was
looking for suggestions, and I think yours are good.

Joy

Joy wrote:

I tend to agree with you, Joyce. My cats are indoor/outdoor. At one point
I tried keeping a couple of cats, who were used to going out, in all the
time, and they were miserable.

And as I'm sure you found out, when a cat is miserable, it makes sure
that everyone else in the vicinity is equally miserable!

I don't think Yowie wanted "this is what you must do" advice. She was
looking for suggestions, and I think yours are good.

Thank you!

--
Joyce

To email me, remove the triple-X from my user name. ^..^

"Yowie" wrote in
:

Shadow has been here a while now, and only once has she used a
litterbox, and that was forNo.1s. She won't go in any box either of
the other cats use, and Pickle thinks its his Bast given right to
'christen' every clean box. I thought she'd taken to doing her
business in the small side of the kitchen sink. gross, yes, but
dealable with.

But no.

Last night we were awoken by wails of terror and horror from Cary.

He had woken up to discover he was smothered in cat poo.

She had gone in his bed and slyly covered the mess (a particularly
slurpy one) she'd made with his blanket.

He'd gotten into bed and hadn't noticed straight away.

To say he was traumatised is an understatement. He's been awake *all
night* (as have we) and is refusing to go back to sleep.

Joel is a pretty easy going and understanding man, but I can *fully*
understand his anger toward Shadow at this point. Crapping in the beds
is just NOT ON. Crapping in Cary's bed is REALLY NOT ON. I am *hoping*
this doesn't mean that he will have 'poo' issues for the rest of his
life, but who knows the ramifications?

So I need your advice.

I can't seperate Shadow from the rest of the cats so she can have her
own box. The only room that that could be done with is the bathroom,
and it seems mean to lock her up in there all day, and besides, thats
where Pickle & Suki go to drink. It would also mean she doesn't get
any passing pettin's as she does now.

She desperately wants to go outside. Despite my misgivings about
outside cats, and the increased risk of skin cancer, I wonder whether
the risk of a shorter but far happier life may be worth it.


This is what my neighbour had to do with her sweet cat Hershey. He was
doing his business all over the house. He desperately wanted out. The
problem disappeared the minute she let him out. She too figured better
a short happy life than a long miserable one - for all concerned. So
far, so good, he's been an in/out cat for many years now.
Bobble



Or perhaps she really needs to be an only cat in a house without
children. The crap on Cary's bed may well have been her 'revenge' for
him being 4 (he tends to 'love' Pickle and leave Shadow alone as she
growls at him).

She can be very sweet and loving, but also *very* agressive if she's
annoyed, she doesn't give a warning 'bap' or a light nibble before
launching into a fully fledged ally cat fight with whatever is the
source of her ire. Thankfuly she growls first, so there is some sign,
but full scale war from 'happy and purring' is a bit intimidating,
which is why Cary is not allowed to play with her (Pickle is the best,
he 'mouths' and runs off).

So,Im not real sure what to do with her. As far as Joel is concerned,
she's on her second of three strikes (and your out), having nearly
taken out his eye on the second day we had her.

Advice on what do, and purrs that she'll mellow and use the boxes
provided wouldn't go astray either.

Yowie

On Jun 17, 5:45 pm, "Yowie" wrote:
Shadow has been here a while now, and only once has she used a litterbox,
and that was forNo.1s. She won't go in any box either of the other cats use,
and Pickle thinks its his Bast given right to 'christen' every clean box. I
thought she'd taken to doing her business in the small side of the kitchen
sink. gross, yes, but dealable with.

But no.

Last night we were awoken by wails of terror and horror from Cary.

He had woken up to discover he was smothered in cat poo.

She had gone in his bed and slyly covered the mess (a particularly slurpy
one) she'd made with his blanket.

He'd gotten into bed and hadn't noticed straight away.

To say he was traumatised is an understatement. He's been awake *all night*
(as have we) and is refusing to go back to sleep.

Joel is a pretty easy going and understanding man, but I can *fully*
understand his anger toward Shadow at this point. Crapping in the beds is
just NOT ON. Crapping in Cary's bed is REALLY NOT ON. I am *hoping* this
doesn't mean that he will have 'poo' issues for the rest of his life, but
who knows the ramifications?

So I need your advice.

I can't seperate Shadow from the rest of the cats so she can have her own
box. The only room that that could be done with is the bathroom, and it
seems mean to lock her up in there all day, and besides, thats where Pickle
& Suki go to drink. It would also mean she doesn't get any passing pettin's
as she does now.

She desperately wants to go outside. Despite my misgivings about outside
cats, and the increased risk of skin cancer, I wonder whether the risk of a
shorter but far happier life may be worth it.

Or perhaps she really needs to be an only cat in a house without children.
The crap on Cary's bed may well have been her 'revenge' for him being 4 (he
tends to 'love' Pickle and leave Shadow alone as she growls at him).

She can be very sweet and loving, but also *very* agressive if she's
annoyed, she doesn't give a warning 'bap' or a light nibble before launching
into a fully fledged ally cat fight with whatever is the source of her ire.
Thankfuly she growls first, so there is some sign, but full scale war from
'happy and purring' is a bit intimidating, which is why Cary is not allowed
to play with her (Pickle is the best, he 'mouths' and runs off).

So,Im not real sure what to do with her. As far as Joel is concerned, she's
on her second of three strikes (and your out), having nearly taken out his
eye on the second day we had her.

Advice on what do, and purrs that she'll mellow and use the boxes provided
wouldn't go astray either.

I think the following options are best, in descending order of
desirability but the later ones are better than bad applications of
the earlier ones. If that seems clear, you are _good_

1: An enclosure in the yard that will let her be an indoor-outoor in
safety. If this solves the poo problem and cuts down on her problems
with the other cats, I would not be surprised at all.

2: Simply allow her to be indoor-outdoor. We have indoor-outdoors in
our little complex and I know that the ones I met when we moved in
here three years ago are all alive. This despite the fact that there
are coyotes in the area. However, abundant trees are a cat's best
friend in coyote country. There is also a bobcat in the neighborhood.
The only explanation of his not killing and eating cats is that he
doesn't feel like it. I know you don't have coyotes and bobcats but
there are similar hazards elsewhere. If she can be safe and keep
coming home, this will probably solve the poop problem and might
decrease her problems with the other cats and the humans.

3: Another home where there aren't any other cats. Tough love might be
necessary if one or two don't work.

--
Will in New Haven

On Jun 17, 4:45*pm, "Yowie" wrote:
Shadow has been here a while now, and only once has she used a litterbox,
and that was forNo.1s. She won't go in any box either of the other cats use,
and Pickle thinks its his Bast given right to 'christen' every clean box. I
thought she'd taken to doing her business in the small side of the kitchen
sink. gross, yes, but dealable with.

But no.

Last night we were awoken by wails of terror and horror from Cary.

He had woken up to discover he was smothered in cat poo.

She had gone in his bed and slyly covered the mess (a particularly slurpy
one) she'd made with his blanket.

He'd gotten into bed and hadn't noticed straight away.

To say he was traumatised is an understatement. He's been awake *all night*
(as have we) and is refusing to go back to sleep.

Joel is a pretty easy going and understanding man, but I can *fully*
understand his anger toward Shadow at this point. Crapping in the beds is
just NOT ON. Crapping in Cary's bed is REALLY NOT ON. I am *hoping* this
doesn't mean that he will have 'poo' issues for the rest of his life, but
who knows the ramifications?

So I need your advice.

I can't seperate Shadow from the rest of the cats so she can have her own
box. The only room that that could be done with is the bathroom, and it
seems mean to lock her up in there all day, and besides, thats where Pickle
& Suki go to drink. It would also mean she doesn't get any passing pettin's
as she does now.

She desperately wants to go outside. Despite my misgivings about outside
cats, and the increased risk of skin cancer, I wonder whether the risk of a
shorter but far happier life may be worth it.

Or perhaps she really needs to be an only cat in a house without children..
The crap on Cary's bed may well have been her 'revenge' for him being 4 (he
tends to 'love' Pickle and leave Shadow alone as she growls at him).

She can be very sweet and loving, but also *very* agressive if she's
annoyed, she doesn't give a warning 'bap' or a light nibble before launching
into a fully fledged ally cat fight with whatever is the source of her ire.
Thankfuly she growls first, so there is some sign, but full scale war from
'happy and purring' is a bit intimidating, which is why Cary is not allowed
to play with her (Pickle is the best, he 'mouths' and runs off).

So,Im not real sure what to do with her. As far as Joel is concerned, she's
on her second of three strikes (and your out), having nearly taken out his
eye on the second day we had her.

Advice on what do, and purrs that she'll mellow and use the boxes provided
wouldn't go astray either.

Yowie

Find this kitty a new home. Putting her outside would be wrong and put
her health at risk and she is no less deserving of a loving, caring,
happy home than any other cat. She did NOT do this out of a motivation
for revenge. This is NOT how cats are.

Her response was completely appropriate cat reactive behavior for the
situation regardless of the fact that it was icky to you. She wasn't
introduced into the home and other cats properly, she's stressed,
unhappy, not getting along with the other cats and your husband hates
her. She is desperate to call this home her own/fit in, is probably
being ambushed by the other cats in the litterbox and had no choice
but to find another option which just happened to be your kid's bed.
This is NOT HER FAULT.

Please take the time to find someone that is compassionate,
understanding, well-educated about the care and behavior of cats and
does not have other cats in the home. It may take a little time, but
the alternatives should not be options. In the meantime, why not
alternate the cats between the bedroom and the rest of the house so
she can have some time (and a litterbox) to herself without the stress
of the other cats.

"Yowie" wrote in message
...
Shadow has been here a while now, and only once has she used a
litterbox, and that was forNo.1s. She won't go in any box either of
the other cats use, and Pickle thinks its his Bast given right to
'christen' every clean box. I thought she'd taken to doing her
business in the small side of the kitchen sink. gross, yes, but
dealable with.


First, purrs from Jake and Molly.

I can only tell you what I would do in the circumstances as I
understand them. Or given the options that may be available.

Right now Shadow isn't any happier than anyone else in the house.

Going outside might be the right answer for her, but there are some
down sides. My cats go out. I know there is a risk involved, but its
a reasonable risk where we live. They are happy and we pay the vet
bills as they come up. Of course I don't want anything awful to
happen to either of them, but if it does, I'm a grown up and can deal
with consequences.

(Anyone who wants to yell at me, I'd prefer they stayed in. Charlie
and the cats prefer otherwise.)

If she goes out and is hurt or lost, you will have to explain that to
Cary as well as deal with it yourself. Something I'd want to avoid if
I could.

And remember, it isn't your fault. Shadow was traumatized before you
ever met her(?) and you have done the very best you know how to make
it all better. You know it isn't working, and is probably just
getting worse with time.

So I'd do my darndest to find her another home. An only cat home.
With maybe a stay with a foster family that could help him with his
behavior problems. And a shelter has a better chance of success than
you do personally.

It stinks, but we can't each save them all. We can only do what we
can do.

Jo

Joy wrote:
wrote in message
...
Yowie wrote:

Last night we were awoken by wails of terror and horror from Cary.

He had woken up to discover he was smothered in cat poo.

She had gone in his bed and slyly covered the mess (a particularly
slurpy
one) she'd made with his blanket.

He'd gotten into bed and hadn't noticed straight away.

To say he was traumatised is an understatement. He's been awake *all
night*
(as have we) and is refusing to go back to sleep.
UGH, poor Cary!! I would be traumatized by that, too, and I'm not
4 years old! That's really gross.

So I need your advice.

I can't seperate Shadow from the rest of the cats so she can have her
own
box. The only room that that could be done with is the bathroom, and it
seems mean to lock her up in there all day, and besides, thats where
Pickle
& Suki go to drink. It would also mean she doesn't get any passing
pettin's
as she does now.

She desperately wants to go outside. Despite my misgivings about outside
cats, and the increased risk of skin cancer, I wonder whether the risk
of a
shorter but far happier life may be worth it.
Well, I know this won't be a popular view on this newsgroup, but I
would probably allow her to be an indoor/outdoor cat. Aside from the poo
issues, I happen to think it's cruel to keep a cat inside when it clearly
wants to go out. (Of course, my opinion plus $3.50 in American money
will get you a latte, but that's what you asked for... Sorry I can't
include the latte. )

I prefer to decide based on the individual cat's needs and wants. I guess
if I lived on an extremely busy street or in a very rough neighborhood,
I would feel forced to keep all my cats indoors. But I live in a nice,
residential area where there are several indoor/outdoor kitties, and in
the 9 years I've lived there, all the cats I've known in the neighborhood
are still alive & kicking.

Smudge *needs* to be able to go out. It would really hurt my heart to
keep her trapped indoors. Roxy is curious about the outdoors - she
always peers out when I open the door. But she doesn't seem to have a
mandate about it, so I don't encourage her. Licky is like Enfilade's
Smokey: Outdoors? No thank you. So I have no qualms about keeping them
inside. Sounds like Shadow is like Smudge.

I'm aware of the skin cancer issue, and unfortunately you live in one
of the worst places in the world for UV exposure. And you can't
exactly put sunblock lotion on a cat. :-/ But there are many risks
involved with going outdoors. You would just have to be prepared for
the possibility of high vet bills if she did get skin cancer, or hit
by a car, etc. I just wonder if avoiding all that is worth it for a
cat like Shadow. Life could be long and miserable, or it could be
shorter but at least more satisfying.

There's also the option of rehoming her. Maybe someone with a yard that
has some shade, where they could build an enclosure? At least she'd be
outside, if not free to go where she pleased. I agree on the one-cat
idea, too.

Sorry I don't have "this is what you must do" kind of advice. But it
seems clear that keeping her indoors at your place is NOT an option.

Good luck and purrs for a good solution.

--
Joyce

I tend to agree with you, Joyce. My cats are indoor/outdoor. At one point
I tried keeping a couple of cats, who were used to going out, in all the
time, and they were miserable.


Another vote of agreement, all my three are indoor/outdoor (with a
combined age of ~40 years) and go crazy when confined to quarters.
Picking a quiet neighbourhood that's safe for them was one of my
absolute must haves when I looked for a new house last year. Obviously
not everybody is as fortunate in being able to pick adn choose where
they live, so YMMV.


--
Nik Simpson

Cats are wonderful but, the Yowlet comes first. Mess up his safety at
night, from his point of view and you all pay.

FWIW I would let him be an indoor/outdoor cat. It is clearly what he wants
and a patient husband is a rare thing so don't fool with that.

Other cats around survive that way so there must be safety for them.

I know it won't be easy but I can't imagine the horror of Cary being in that
kind of a mess. Poor baby.
"Yowie" wrote in message
...
Shadow has been here a while now, and only once has she used a litterbox,
and that was forNo.1s. She won't go in any box either of the other cats
use, and Pickle thinks its his Bast given right to 'christen' every clean
box. I thought she'd taken to doing her business in the small side of the
kitchen sink. gross, yes, but dealable with.

But no.

Last night we were awoken by wails of terror and horror from Cary.

He had woken up to discover he was smothered in cat poo.

She had gone in his bed and slyly covered the mess (a particularly slurpy
one) she'd made with his blanket.

He'd gotten into bed and hadn't noticed straight away.

To say he was traumatised is an understatement. He's been awake *all
night* (as have we) and is refusing to go back to sleep.

Joel is a pretty easy going and understanding man, but I can *fully*
understand his anger toward Shadow at this point. Crapping in the beds is
just NOT ON. Crapping in Cary's bed is REALLY NOT ON. I am *hoping* this
doesn't mean that he will have 'poo' issues for the rest of his life, but
who knows the ramifications?

So I need your advice.

I can't seperate Shadow from the rest of the cats so she can have her own
box. The only room that that could be done with is the bathroom, and it
seems mean to lock her up in there all day, and besides, thats where
Pickle & Suki go to drink. It would also mean she doesn't get any passing
pettin's as she does now.

She desperately wants to go outside. Despite my misgivings about outside
cats, and the increased risk of skin cancer, I wonder whether the risk of
a shorter but far happier life may be worth it.

Or perhaps she really needs to be an only cat in a house without children.
The crap on Cary's bed may well have been her 'revenge' for him being 4
(he tends to 'love' Pickle and leave Shadow alone as she growls at him).

She can be very sweet and loving, but also *very* agressive if she's
annoyed, she doesn't give a warning 'bap' or a light nibble before
launching into a fully fledged ally cat fight with whatever is the source
of her ire. Thankfuly she growls first, so there is some sign, but full
scale war from 'happy and purring' is a bit intimidating, which is why
Cary is not allowed to play with her (Pickle is the best, he 'mouths' and
runs off).

So,Im not real sure what to do with her. As far as Joel is concerned,
she's on her second of three strikes (and your out), having nearly taken
out his eye on the second day we had her.

Advice on what do, and purrs that she'll mellow and use the boxes provided
wouldn't go astray either.

Yowie