If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
OT - WARNING POLITICAL & AW (Human)
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
... CatNipped wrote: Actually, according to our Constitution, state laws *should* supersede Federal law in all but cases involving crossing state lines. Don't let anybody kid you, the Civil war was about the north not getting its grubby hands on taxes generated by cotton plantations (as all wars throughout history, no matter the lip service paid to ideological beliefs, it is *always* about money). How true. I am reading an eye-opening novel "The Proud and the Free", about the way our government dispossessed the Cherokee Nation, back in the 1830's. The book itself is a slightly steamy romantic novel, but the historical background is genuine, and redeems it. These were not "savages", but people who had adopted the White Man's ways, were educated in Eastern U.S. schools, and had become prosperous farmers and businessmen. (Since their territory included a good chunk of the Deep South, many had lavish plantations, and were slave-owners.) I *lurve* historical "novels"! One of my favorites is "Rabble in Arms" - it gives a whole 'nother side of the story about Benedict Arnold. I have always considered it a good joke on our government that, after forcing the Indians into lands the White Man didn't want, they discovered oil there, and couldn't evict them. However, that may simply mean we had a slightly more moral government in office at the time. There were equally binding treaties in place in the 1830's, but when President Jackson and his cronies decided they wanted all that rich farmland and those newly discovered goldmines in Georgia, it didn't stop them forcing new treaties relocating the Cherokees from their ancestral lands to territory West of the Mississippi, and using the U.S. Army to enforce the eviction. (There are times I don't think much of the human race, and clearly Americans are no better than anyone else.) Yep, there seems to be no honor in government when money is involved! Chin Skritches, CatNipped |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
OT - WARNING POLITICAL & AW (Human)
"hopitus" wrote in message ... On Aug 4, 1:15 pm, "CatNipped" wrote: This case hits rather close to home and I was wondering if it were possible for us to discuss this rationally. I can sort of see both sides of the issue. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5922356.html "Texas. It's like a whole other country." Coined to promote tourism, that wry verbal wink at the state's mythic image has assumed a literal meaning as Texas finds itself in defiance of the United Nations, the Organization of American States and national leaders in its planned Tuesday execution of Mexican citizen Jose Medellin. Unless the U.S. Supreme Court or Gov. Rick Perry acts in his favor, Medellin, 33, will die for the 1993 rape-strangulation of two teenage Houston girls, Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Peña. Jennifer's father, Randy Ertman, dismissed international opposition to the execution. "It's just a last-ditch effort to keep the scumbag breathing," Ertman said. "He never should have been breathing in the first place. I don't care, I really don't care what anyone thinks about this except Texas. I love Texas. Texas is in my blood." At issue is Texas' refusal to hold a hearing to determine whether Medellin's defense was harmed by his inability to confer with Mexican consular officials at the time of his arrest. A suspect's right to talk with his consulate is guaranteed by the United Nations' Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, to which the United States is a party. Medellin insists he told both Houston police and Harris County officers that he is a Mexican citizen. Prosecutors say the killer never informed authorities of his nationality. In a sworn statement, Medellin said he learned that the Mexican Consulate could possibly help him in 1997, four years after his arrest. He unsuccessfully petitioned the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals on the issue in 1998. In 2004, the U.N.'s world court, responding to a Mexican lawsuit against the United States, ordered that hearings be held for Medellin and dozens of other inmates denied their consular rights. In 2005, President Bush called for the hearings to be held. Texas challenged the decision, and the Supreme Court determined that only Congress could mandate such action. In July, the world court ordered Medellin's execution be stayed. Perry has argued Texas isn't bound by the decisions of international courts and that the state is determined to hold killers, regardless of their nationality, responsible for their crimes. Texas has rebuffed not only the U.N. and Bush, but Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey and the judicial arm of the Organization of American States, which has demanded Medellin receive a new trial. As politicians worried about the impact on Americans arrested in foreign countries should Texas fail to honor the world court order, prison officials moved Medellin to a special death row cell, where he will be held under constant video surveillance until he is driven to Huntsville's death house. A tragic tale The big city wept when little Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Peña died. Students at Waltrip High School, Jennifer was 14, and Elizabeth had just turned 16. Their lives were filled with the things that occupy teenage girls. Friends recalled Elizabeth, who was beginning to dabble with makeup, as a "social butterfly." Jennifer tried her hand at basketball before concluding she wasn't cut out for athletics. On June 24, 1993, the girls were at a party at a friend's apartment when they realized the lateness of the hour. Following the railroad tracks through T.C. Jester Park, they concluded, would shave 10 minutes off their trip to Elizabeth's Oak Forest home. As the girls made their way past a thicket near White Oak Bayou, they stumbled onto the tail end of a drunken gang initiation. When they blundered into the group of youths, Medellin - 5 feet, 5 inches tall and weighing just 135 pounds - grabbed Elizabeth and flipped her to the ground. Jennifer, drawn by Elizabeth's scream, turned to help and was herself captured. As the teens cried and struggled, six gang members took turns raping them. Finally, gang leader Peter Cantu told Medellin, "We're going to have to kill them." Gang members Derrick O'Brien and Raul Villarreal looped a belt around Jennifer's throat, pulling with such force that the belt broke. Cantu, Medellin and Efrain Perez strangled Elizabeth with a shoelace. Then they stomped on the girls' throats for good measure. Four days later, police, acting on a tip from a gang member's brother, found the teens' bodies, badly decomposed in the summer heat. The victims were identified through dental records. Judge Cathy Cochran, a member of the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, which last week rejected his appeals, wrote that Medellin bragged to his friends that the victims had been virgins until they were attacked by the gang. "His written confession," Cochran wrote, "displayed a callous, cruel and cavalier attitude toward the two girls that he had raped and helped to murder. Surely no juror or judge will ever forget his words or his sordid deeds." O'Brien was first to be executed, going to his death in July 2006 with the parting words: "I am sorry. I have always been sorry." Cantu, also convicted of capital murder, awaits a death date. Medellin, who grew up in poverty amid drug abuse and an unstable home environment, twice refused to be interviewed for this story. But on his Web site, posted by a Canadian anti-death penalty group, he claims: "I'm where I am because I made an adolescent choice. That's it! "My life is in black and white like old western movies," he wrote. "But unlike the movies, the good guys don't always finish first." 'Uncaring and hateful' This time, death penalty opponents believe, the sovereign state of Texas has gone too far. "Most of our friends abroad have long since come to the conclusion that this country, on this topic, just doesn't get it," said Southern Methodist University history professor Rick Halperin. "This state is seen as uncaring and hateful. And this case is just right on the top." The Medellin case will solidify stereotypical views of the Lone Star State, said Halperin, president of the Texas Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty and former board chairman of Amnesty International USA. Cochran, however, disagreed in her appeals court concurrence. "Some societies may judge our death penalty barbaric," she wrote. "Most Texans, however, consider death a just penalty in certain rare circumstances. Many Europeans disagree. So be it." The politics of capital punishment aside, some legal observers worry that the United States may suffer as a result of Texas' noncompliance with the world court order. "Outside of Texas this is a huge diplomatic misstep," said Columbia Law School professor Sarah Cleveland. " ... Unfortunately, I doubt that the international community is likely to brush this off as simply the actions of Texas. In the international community (and under all U.S. treaty obligations) the United States is responsible for Texas' actions." Wide-ranging effect If the United States fails to observe its treaty commitments, said Cleveland, co-director of the Human Rights Institute, other nations might be inclined to disregard agreements when they become inconvenient. Affected could be treaties ranging from those mandating protection for foreign nationals to nuclear nonproliferation. Texas Sen. Rodney Ellis, D-Houston, a frequent traveler abroad, said he fears Texas' noncompliance will put American military personnel and civilians at risk. In ruling that Bush could not unilaterally force states to hold hearings to consider Vienna Convention violations, the Supreme Court noted that power lies in Congress. Within weeks, U.S. Rep. Howard Berman, D-Calif., introduced such a bill. It is pending in the House Judiciary Committee and can't be enacted until next year. Nose Kisses, CatNipped I would call this a "can of worms" topic-wise....but since you asked: Who appointed this "Columbia Law Professor" the last word on what the "international community" will do? Why is she the final authority? I really didn't want to get involved in this discussion, but really, what's with all the hate for the Columbia law professor? I just want to point out that nobody is claiming that this law professor is a "final authority," but since she is a law professor, she probably knows a bit more than the layman about such cases and their implications, and the newspaper approached her as an expert, not to deliver a judgement, but to deliver an informed view about those implications, which wouldn't necessarily be evident to me or you. Newspaper reporters keep Rolodexes of such experts to consult. Theresa, Stinky and Dante drtmuirATearthlink.net Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
OT - WARNING POLITICAL & AW (Human)
CatNipped wrote:
This case hits rather close to home and I was wondering if it were possible for us to discuss this rationally. I can sort of see both sides of the issue. ????????? could you state it in less than 5 pages?? |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
OT - WARNING POLITICAL & AW (Human)
"hopitus" wrote in message ... On Aug 4, 4:16 pm, "Kreisleriana" wrote: "hopitus" wrote in message ... On Aug 4, 1:15 pm, "CatNipped" wrote: This case hits rather close to home and I was wondering if it were possible for us to discuss this rationally. I can sort of see both sides of the issue. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5922356.html "Texas. It's like a whole other country." Coined to promote tourism, that wry verbal wink at the state's mythic image has assumed a literal meaning as Texas finds itself in defiance of the United Nations, the Organization of American States and national leaders in its planned Tuesday execution of Mexican citizen Jose Medellin. Unless the U.S. Supreme Court or Gov. Rick Perry acts in his favor, Medellin, 33, will die for the 1993 rape-strangulation of two teenage Houston girls, Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Peña. Jennifer's father, Randy Ertman, dismissed international opposition to the execution. "It's just a last-ditch effort to keep the scumbag breathing," Ertman said. "He never should have been breathing in the first place. I don't care, I really don't care what anyone thinks about this except Texas. I love Texas. Texas is in my blood." At issue is Texas' refusal to hold a hearing to determine whether Medellin's defense was harmed by his inability to confer with Mexican consular officials at the time of his arrest. A suspect's right to talk with his consulate is guaranteed by the United Nations' Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, to which the United States is a party. Medellin insists he told both Houston police and Harris County officers that he is a Mexican citizen. Prosecutors say the killer never informed authorities of his nationality. In a sworn statement, Medellin said he learned that the Mexican Consulate could possibly help him in 1997, four years after his arrest. He unsuccessfully petitioned the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals on the issue in 1998. In 2004, the U.N.'s world court, responding to a Mexican lawsuit against the United States, ordered that hearings be held for Medellin and dozens of other inmates denied their consular rights. In 2005, President Bush called for the hearings to be held. Texas challenged the decision, and the Supreme Court determined that only Congress could mandate such action. In July, the world court ordered Medellin's execution be stayed. Perry has argued Texas isn't bound by the decisions of international courts and that the state is determined to hold killers, regardless of their nationality, responsible for their crimes. Texas has rebuffed not only the U.N. and Bush, but Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey and the judicial arm of the Organization of American States, which has demanded Medellin receive a new trial. As politicians worried about the impact on Americans arrested in foreign countries should Texas fail to honor the world court order, prison officials moved Medellin to a special death row cell, where he will be held under constant video surveillance until he is driven to Huntsville's death house. A tragic tale The big city wept when little Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Peña died. Students at Waltrip High School, Jennifer was 14, and Elizabeth had just turned 16. Their lives were filled with the things that occupy teenage girls. Friends recalled Elizabeth, who was beginning to dabble with makeup, as a "social butterfly." Jennifer tried her hand at basketball before concluding she wasn't cut out for athletics. On June 24, 1993, the girls were at a party at a friend's apartment when they realized the lateness of the hour. Following the railroad tracks through T.C. Jester Park, they concluded, would shave 10 minutes off their trip to Elizabeth's Oak Forest home. As the girls made their way past a thicket near White Oak Bayou, they stumbled onto the tail end of a drunken gang initiation. When they blundered into the group of youths, Medellin - 5 feet, 5 inches tall and weighing just 135 pounds - grabbed Elizabeth and flipped her to the ground. Jennifer, drawn by Elizabeth's scream, turned to help and was herself captured. As the teens cried and struggled, six gang members took turns raping them. Finally, gang leader Peter Cantu told Medellin, "We're going to have to kill them." Gang members Derrick O'Brien and Raul Villarreal looped a belt around Jennifer's throat, pulling with such force that the belt broke. Cantu, Medellin and Efrain Perez strangled Elizabeth with a shoelace. Then they stomped on the girls' throats for good measure. Four days later, police, acting on a tip from a gang member's brother, found the teens' bodies, badly decomposed in the summer heat. The victims were identified through dental records. Judge Cathy Cochran, a member of the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, which last week rejected his appeals, wrote that Medellin bragged to his friends that the victims had been virgins until they were attacked by the gang. "His written confession," Cochran wrote, "displayed a callous, cruel and cavalier attitude toward the two girls that he had raped and helped to murder. Surely no juror or judge will ever forget his words or his sordid deeds." O'Brien was first to be executed, going to his death in July 2006 with the parting words: "I am sorry. I have always been sorry." Cantu, also convicted of capital murder, awaits a death date. Medellin, who grew up in poverty amid drug abuse and an unstable home environment, twice refused to be interviewed for this story. But on his Web site, posted by a Canadian anti-death penalty group, he claims: "I'm where I am because I made an adolescent choice. That's it! "My life is in black and white like old western movies," he wrote. "But unlike the movies, the good guys don't always finish first." 'Uncaring and hateful' This time, death penalty opponents believe, the sovereign state of Texas has gone too far. "Most of our friends abroad have long since come to the conclusion that this country, on this topic, just doesn't get it," said Southern Methodist University history professor Rick Halperin. "This state is seen as uncaring and hateful. And this case is just right on the top." The Medellin case will solidify stereotypical views of the Lone Star State, said Halperin, president of the Texas Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty and former board chairman of Amnesty International USA. Cochran, however, disagreed in her appeals court concurrence. "Some societies may judge our death penalty barbaric," she wrote. "Most Texans, however, consider death a just penalty in certain rare circumstances. Many Europeans disagree. So be it." The politics of capital punishment aside, some legal observers worry that the United States may suffer as a result of Texas' noncompliance with the world court order. "Outside of Texas this is a huge diplomatic misstep," said Columbia Law School professor Sarah Cleveland. " ... Unfortunately, I doubt that the international community is likely to brush this off as simply the actions of Texas. In the international community (and under all U.S. treaty obligations) the United States is responsible for Texas' actions." Wide-ranging effect If the United States fails to observe its treaty commitments, said Cleveland, co-director of the Human Rights Institute, other nations might be inclined to disregard agreements when they become inconvenient. Affected could be treaties ranging from those mandating protection for foreign nationals to nuclear nonproliferation. Texas Sen. Rodney Ellis, D-Houston, a frequent traveler abroad, said he fears Texas' noncompliance will put American military personnel and civilians at risk. In ruling that Bush could not unilaterally force states to hold hearings to consider Vienna Convention violations, the Supreme Court noted that power lies in Congress. Within weeks, U.S. Rep. Howard Berman, D-Calif., introduced such a bill. It is pending in the House Judiciary Committee and can't be enacted until next year. Nose Kisses, CatNipped I would call this a "can of worms" topic-wise....but since you asked: Who appointed this "Columbia Law Professor" the last word on what the "international community" will do? Why is she the final authority? I really didn't want to get involved in this discussion, but really, what's with all the hate for the Columbia law professor? I just want to point out that nobody is claiming that this law professor is a "final authority," but since she is a law professor, she probably knows a bit more than the layman about such cases and their implications, and the newspaper approached her as an expert, not to deliver a judgement, but to deliver an informed view about those implications, which wouldn't necessarily be evident to me or you. Newspaper reporters keep Rolodexes of such experts to consult. Theresa, Stinky and Dante drtmuirATearthlink.net Stinky Pictures:http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh HellllO! Because I question something and also think it's amusing, now I "hate" a law professor in one of 'Nipped's news stories? Get a grip. Granted Indiana residents may not welcome this heat like I do, but hey - I was not NOT questioning the woman's authority....just the news story's quoting her as an "international community" expert on what the international reaction would be to this Texas inmate's execution. Give Stinky old man a huggy from one of his ardent fans. He's right here-- will do! -- Theresa, Stinky and Dante drtmuirATearthlink.net Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
OT - WARNING POLITICAL & AW (Human)
"Sjouke Burry" wrote in message
. .. CatNipped wrote: This case hits rather close to home and I was wondering if it were possible for us to discuss this rationally. I can sort of see both sides of the issue. ????????? could you state it in less than 5 pages?? Not really! ; Chin Skritches, CatNipped |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
OT - WARNING POLITICAL & AW (Human)
On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:46:48 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
wrote: I thought we fought a civil war to determine whether individual states could ignore national laws? I get the impression Texas (and Arizona) think the South won? The consitutional point is that treaties and conventions are not self-enforcing. The Congress has to legislate. Otherwise you are giving legislative power to the executive. I'm sure you are not in favor of the President being able to rule by decree. Bud |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
An ending to the discussion
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/05/...=ib_topstories
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Mexican national Jose Ernesto Medellin, whose death penalty conviction in the rape and murder of two teen girls sparked international controversy, was put to death in Texas on Tuesday night, prison officials said. Jose Ernesto Medellin was put to death for his part in the gang rape and murder of two Texas girls. Corrections spokeswoman Michelle Lyons said Medellin died at 9:57 CT. The U.S. Supreme Court denied the last-ditch appeal of a Mexican national on Texas' death row late Tuesday, paving the way for him to be executed for a pair of brutal slayings, state corrections officials said. Texas Department of Criminal Justice spokeswoman Michelle Lyons said about 9:15 p.m. that the court had turned down the appeal of Jose Ernesto Medellin. Medellin's capital appeal was an unusual one that pitted President Bush against his home state in a dispute over federal authority, local sovereignty and foreign treaties. At issue is an international court's ruling that Medellin and about 50 other Mexicans have been illegally denied access to their home country's consul. Allowing travelers such access when they are arrested abroad is common practice. At about 7 p.m., an hour after the execution could have taken place, a spokesman for the Texas Department of Corrections said the execution was in a "holding pattern." The high court in March ruled for Texas, allowing the execution to proceed, but Medellin's lawyers filed a flurry of emergency appeals in state and federal courts, requesting a stay. They argued that Congress and the Texas Legislature should be given a chance to pass legislation that would give their client a new hearing before punishment is carried out. Such a bill is pending in Congress, but no recent action has been taken in either chamber. In an August 1 letter, three Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee urged Texas Gov. Rick Perry, a Republican, to postpone executions "in order to provide Congress with the time needed to consider this situation." Texas lawmakers will not gather in session until January. The case centers on whether the state has to give in to a demand by the president that the prisoner be allowed new hearings and sentencing. Bush made that demand reluctantly after an international court concluded Medellin and 50 other Mexicans on American death rows were improperly denied access to their consulate upon arrest, a violation of a treaty signed by the United States decades ago. Medellin's execution will be the first of what promises to be a busy month at the state's death chamber in Huntsville. Five other men are scheduled to die by lethal injection in the next four weeks, including one on Thursday. Medellin was 18 when he participated in the June 1993 gang rape and murder of two Harris County girls, Jennifer Ertman, 14, and Elizabeth Pena, 16. He was convicted of the crimes and sentenced to death. The prisoner's lawyers argued Mexican consular officials were not able to meet with the man until after his conviction. Thirteen Texas death row inmates from Mexico will be affected by the high court ruling. Only Oklahoma has commuted a capital inmate's sentence to life in prison in response to the international judgment. The International Court of Justice ruled in 2004 that the United States had violated the rights of the prisoners, in part because officials and prosecutors failed to notify their home country, from which the men could have received legal and other assistance. Those judges ordered the United States to provide "review and reconsideration" of the convictions and sentences of the Mexican prisoners. The world court again last month ordered the United States to do everything within its authority to stop Medellin's execution until his case could be further reviewed. Based in The Hague, Netherlands, the International Court of Justice resolves disputes between nations over treaty obligations. The United States is a signatory to the 1963 Vienna Convention, which lays out rights of people detained in other nations. The appeal the Supreme Court ruled on in March turned on what role each branch of government plays to give force to international treaty obligations. Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for a 6-3 majority that the international court's judgments cannot be forced upon individual states. The president also cannot "establish binding rules of decision that pre-empt contrary state law," he said, and the treaty itself does not specifically require states to remedy any treaty violations. The chief justice added that the international court "is not domestic law," thereby restricting the president's power over states. "The executive's narrow and strictly limited authority to settle international claims disputes pursuant to an executive agreement cannot stretch so far as to support the current presidential memorandum" that would force Texas to conduct a new state trial, he wrote. The Mexican government filed an appeal with the international court against the United States in January 2003, alleging violations of international law. Medellin filed his own federal and state appeals based on similar complaints, as well as a claim of ineffective counsel. Medellin has the support of the European Union and several international human rights groups. Bush said he disagreed with the international court's conclusions, but agreed to comply with them. In a February 28, 2005, executive order, he said, "The United States will discharge its international obligations ... by having state courts give effect to the decision in accordance with general principles of comity in cases filed by the 51 Mexican nationals addressed in that decision." The Bush White House typically backs states in their power to carry out executions, but Justice Department officials said that in these instances, the president's power to conduct foreign policy outweighed states' interests. The Supreme Court originally heard the Medellin case in 2005 but did not rule on the merits. It waited instead for lower courts to resolve the federalism angle before rehearing the appeal in October. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
OT - WARNING POLITICAL & AW (Human)
On Aug 4, 1:57*pm, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
wrote: *These were not "savages", but people who had adopted the White Man's ways, were educated in Eastern U.S. schools, and had become prosperous farmers and businessmen. (Since their territory included a good chunk of the Deep South, many had lavish plantations, and were slave-owners.) This is very strange..... A couple of days ago, Dave, me and Jim the Gardener were sitting in the local chatting and we were trying to remember the name of the tribe of Indians who adopted white man's ways to the extent that some of them were even slave owners only to still have their land taken away and to be moved to poorer land and none of us could remember their name....so today I glance down a thread on this list and there's the answer to the question that plagued the three of us all night (cue X-Files music) Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
OT - WARNING POLITICAL & AW (Human)
On Aug 4, 4:03*pm, "CatNipped" wrote:
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message ... Daniel Mahoney wrote: On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:15:23 -0500, CatNipped wrote: This case hits rather close to home and I was wondering if it were possible for us to discuss this rationally. *I can sort of see both sides of the issue. I can too, kind of. I used to support the death penalty in cases of extreme wanton violence, and this would qualify. In recent years, though, I've come to rethink that and now believe that no human being has the right to determine the life or death of another. However, I think the biggest point here is the one make by Senator Ellis. The US cannot thumb it's nose at the rest of the world with impunity. If the US chooses to ignore the findings of the World Court, then other countries would be justified in ignoring World Court findings regarding US citizens. To assert that we need not be concerned with the findings of extra-territorial legislative bodies is to make those same bodies unable to protect US citizens. Besides, regardless of whether the killer informed the cops that he was a Mexican national at the time of his arrest, that does have a bearing and he was entitled to speak with a Mexican consular officer. That warrants at the least a retrial. Ignoring the court that hears Geneva Convention cases? The very thought makes me shudder. I thought we fought a civil war to determine whether individual states could ignore national laws? *I get the impression Texas (and Arizona) think the South won? Actually, according to our Constitution, state laws *should* supersede Federal law in all but cases involving crossing state lines. *Don't let anybody kid you, the Civil war was about the north not getting its grubby hands on taxes generated by cotton plantations (as all wars throughout history, no matter the lip service paid to ideological beliefs, it is *always* about money). You studied history at the wrong time. But the War of Northern Aggression was certainly about economics, and a host of other things. -- Will in New Haven |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
OT - WARNING POLITICAL & AW (Human)
On Aug 4, 4:11*pm, "CatNipped" wrote:
"Will in New Haven" wrote in ... On Aug 4, 3:33 pm, Daniel Mahoney wrote: On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:15:23 -0500, CatNipped wrote: This case hits rather close to home and I was wondering if it were possible for us to discuss this rationally. I can sort of see both sides of the issue. I can too, kind of. I used to support the death penalty in cases of extreme wanton violence, and this would qualify. In recent years, though, I've come to rethink that and now believe that no human being has the right to determine the life or death of another. i'm not gung-ho in favor of the death penalty. In general, I'm against it. But I don't see two sides to this issue. I see two little girls. I don't think the state of Texas should execute this guy but I wouldn't lift a finger to help him. If someone killed him and I were on the jury, I would vote to acquit. =============================================== The two sides I see... on the one hand, fry the b*stard who so cruelly, and with no obvious regrets except that he got caught, raped and killed two little girls. *On the other side - American citizens who may be affected if treaties are ignored because of this incident (not *any* bleeding heart feelings that he should be spared). Just his justifications for this horrific act... "I'm where I am because I made an adolescent choice. That's it! "My life is in black and white like old western movies," he wrote. "But unlike the movies, the good guys don't always finish first." ...are enough to make me want to put the injection in his arm myself. *"Good guys???!" *"GOOD GUYS????!!!!!!" *Ohmydeargawd! I think they just executed him, by the way. Unless I misread the news. -- Will in New Haven |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Lucky, the political cat | Bobcat | Cat anecdotes | 2 | October 9th 07 07:15 PM |
[OT] Political | CatNipped | Cat anecdotes | 1 | April 30th 06 06:03 PM |
[OT] WARNING OFF TOPIC - POLITICAL (SORT OF) - Humor, Living Will | CatNipped | Cat health & behaviour | 11 | April 10th 05 07:28 PM |
OT More Political Fun from JibJab | Kreisleriana | Cat anecdotes | 0 | January 20th 05 08:43 PM |