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#1
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Need more info on FLUTD/FUS.
I'd like to educate myself more on FLUTD/FUS. The problem is that I
can't seem to find the answers to these questions. Does anyone know the answers or would like to add their own comments? Are some breeds of cats more likely to get the oxalate crystals than the struvite crystals? If so, anyone know what breeds? Why is it that if a cat eats just as much or more canned food than dry food that it can still develop crystals? People always act like feeding a cat canned food will prevent crystals but it doesn't. Are there any reasons why it doesn't? If a cat's drinking water has a lot of calcium in it, could that possibly contribute or even cause a cat to develop oxalate crystals? Why do veterinarians tend to prescribe the Hill's s/d food for cats with urinary problems (possibly crystals) if they don't yet know what kind of crystals they are? Wouldn't feeding a cat with oxalate crystals the s/d food make the problem worse? |
#3
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in article , Mike at
wrote on 4/3/04 5:06 AM: I'd like to educate myself more on FLUTD/FUS. The problem is that I can't seem to find the answers to these questions. Does anyone know the answers or would like to add their own comments? Are some breeds of cats more likely to get the oxalate crystals than the struvite crystals? If so, anyone know what breeds? Never heard of any particular breed that is suseptible. Why is it that if a cat eats just as much or more canned food than dry food that it can still develop crystals? People always act like feeding a cat canned food will prevent crystals but it doesn't. Are there any reasons why it doesn't? Lots of water does help. Quality of tinned food is most likely a key factor. If a cat's drinking water has a lot of calcium in it, could that possibly contribute or even cause a cat to develop oxalate crystals? I have never seen a study on that. One could buy bottled water just to be sure. Why do veterinarians tend to prescribe the Hill's s/d food for cats with urinary problems (possibly crystals) if they don't yet know what kind of crystals they are? Wouldn't feeding a cat with oxalate crystals the s/d food make the problem worse? The vet *should* test the urine and not just guess. From what I understand, the problem with calcium based oxalate crystals did not seem prevelant until low pH foods came around (*this* I did see a study on somewhere, sorry can't remember artcile). Most common is struvite. Karen |
#4
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"Mike" wrote in message om... I'd like to educate myself more on FLUTD/FUS. The problem is that I can't seem to find the answers to these questions. Does anyone know the answers or would like to add their own comments? Are some breeds of cats more likely to get the oxalate crystals than the struvite crystals? If so, anyone know what breeds? Yes, Persian, Burmese, Himalayan are more prone to CaOx formation than other breeds. In addition, as cats age, the risks change. Younger cats from 1-6 are more prone to Struvite, after age 7 cats are more likley to form CaOx than struvite. Why is it that if a cat eats just as much or more canned food than dry food that it can still develop crystals? People always act like feeding a cat canned food will prevent crystals but it doesn't. Are there any reasons why it doesn't? Cats that eat canned foods excrete the majority of the water in the urine. This greatly dilutes the urine and thus reduces the risk of crystal formation. Cats which eat dry foods and drink an equal amount of free water as the cats ingesting water in canned foods, will excrete the majority of the water in the feces. Thus the dilution of the urine will decrease and crystal formation is more likely. Canned foods alone cannot "cure" crystal formation. Excessive levels of calcium, magnesium, and phosphates in a canned diet can overcome the dilution factor provided by a canned food. If a cat's drinking water has a lot of calcium in it, could that possibly contribute or even cause a cat to develop oxalate crystals? It is unlikely that the water would have enough calcium in it to have any real consequences. The amount of calcium a cat ingests from the foods it eats is vastly greater than any tiny amounts that might be in the water. On the other hand it is possible, but quite rare to have drinking water with high enough levels of magnesium to affect struvite forming cats. It's an issue of scale, calcium in a food can range from 0.64% to 1.2%, whereas magnesium in a food ranges from 0.064% to 0.1%, nearly a ten fold value. Thus smaller amounts of magnesium in the water can rarely be a problem. Why do veterinarians tend to prescribe the Hill's s/d food for cats with urinary problems (possibly crystals) if they don't yet know what kind of crystals they are? Wouldn't feeding a cat with oxalate crystals the s/d food make the problem worse? The formation of a calcium oxalate crystal does not occur overnight. If the vet finds a stone, either by palpation or x-ray, they will prescribe s/d and then watch the stone. If it begins to dissolve they continue to feed s/d. If it maintains its' size or shows any growth over a months period of time then they can assume the stone is non-struvite and plan on surgery. s/d can indeed cause the formation and growth of CaOx stones, however that process is not something that happens overnight, it takes considerable time. The use of s/d to diagnose the stone (in the absence of crystals in the urine for diagnosis) is a valuable way to determine the type of stone. If the stone is indeed CaOx then leaving the cat on s/d would certainly be contraindicated. Because of the urine pH that s/d creates (5.9-6.1) it should not be fed for more than 6 months at a time. |
#5
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"Mike" wrote in message om... I'd like to educate myself more on FLUTD/FUS. The problem is that I can't seem to find the answers to these questions. Does anyone know the answers or would like to add their own comments? Are some breeds of cats more likely to get the oxalate crystals than the struvite crystals? If so, anyone know what breeds? Yes, Persian, Burmese, Himalayan are more prone to CaOx formation than other breeds. In addition, as cats age, the risks change. Younger cats from 1-6 are more prone to Struvite, after age 7 cats are more likley to form CaOx than struvite. Why is it that if a cat eats just as much or more canned food than dry food that it can still develop crystals? People always act like feeding a cat canned food will prevent crystals but it doesn't. Are there any reasons why it doesn't? Cats that eat canned foods excrete the majority of the water in the urine. This greatly dilutes the urine and thus reduces the risk of crystal formation. Cats which eat dry foods and drink an equal amount of free water as the cats ingesting water in canned foods, will excrete the majority of the water in the feces. Thus the dilution of the urine will decrease and crystal formation is more likely. Canned foods alone cannot "cure" crystal formation. Excessive levels of calcium, magnesium, and phosphates in a canned diet can overcome the dilution factor provided by a canned food. If a cat's drinking water has a lot of calcium in it, could that possibly contribute or even cause a cat to develop oxalate crystals? It is unlikely that the water would have enough calcium in it to have any real consequences. The amount of calcium a cat ingests from the foods it eats is vastly greater than any tiny amounts that might be in the water. On the other hand it is possible, but quite rare to have drinking water with high enough levels of magnesium to affect struvite forming cats. It's an issue of scale, calcium in a food can range from 0.64% to 1.2%, whereas magnesium in a food ranges from 0.064% to 0.1%, nearly a ten fold value. Thus smaller amounts of magnesium in the water can rarely be a problem. Why do veterinarians tend to prescribe the Hill's s/d food for cats with urinary problems (possibly crystals) if they don't yet know what kind of crystals they are? Wouldn't feeding a cat with oxalate crystals the s/d food make the problem worse? The formation of a calcium oxalate crystal does not occur overnight. If the vet finds a stone, either by palpation or x-ray, they will prescribe s/d and then watch the stone. If it begins to dissolve they continue to feed s/d. If it maintains its' size or shows any growth over a months period of time then they can assume the stone is non-struvite and plan on surgery. s/d can indeed cause the formation and growth of CaOx stones, however that process is not something that happens overnight, it takes considerable time. The use of s/d to diagnose the stone (in the absence of crystals in the urine for diagnosis) is a valuable way to determine the type of stone. If the stone is indeed CaOx then leaving the cat on s/d would certainly be contraindicated. Because of the urine pH that s/d creates (5.9-6.1) it should not be fed for more than 6 months at a time. |
#6
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Thanks to everyone who replied. Your answers were all very helpful. I
have a few final questions. If a veterinarian prescribes s/d dry food for possible struvite crystals, shouldn't canned food also be fed to the cat? What if a cat won't eat the s/d canned food? Is it ok to feed it regular canned food and just add a little water to it in addition to the s/d dry? I would think any canned food would be better than no canned food at all. "Steve Crane" wrote in message news:_QCbc.4231$sd5.385@okepread02... "Mike" wrote in message om... I'd like to educate myself more on FLUTD/FUS. The problem is that I can't seem to find the answers to these questions. Does anyone know the answers or would like to add their own comments? Are some breeds of cats more likely to get the oxalate crystals than the struvite crystals? If so, anyone know what breeds? Yes, Persian, Burmese, Himalayan are more prone to CaOx formation than other breeds. In addition, as cats age, the risks change. Younger cats from 1-6 are more prone to Struvite, after age 7 cats are more likley to form CaOx than struvite. Why is it that if a cat eats just as much or more canned food than dry food that it can still develop crystals? People always act like feeding a cat canned food will prevent crystals but it doesn't. Are there any reasons why it doesn't? Cats that eat canned foods excrete the majority of the water in the urine. This greatly dilutes the urine and thus reduces the risk of crystal formation. Cats which eat dry foods and drink an equal amount of free water as the cats ingesting water in canned foods, will excrete the majority of the water in the feces. Thus the dilution of the urine will decrease and crystal formation is more likely. Canned foods alone cannot "cure" crystal formation. Excessive levels of calcium, magnesium, and phosphates in a canned diet can overcome the dilution factor provided by a canned food. If a cat's drinking water has a lot of calcium in it, could that possibly contribute or even cause a cat to develop oxalate crystals? It is unlikely that the water would have enough calcium in it to have any real consequences. The amount of calcium a cat ingests from the foods it eats is vastly greater than any tiny amounts that might be in the water. On the other hand it is possible, but quite rare to have drinking water with high enough levels of magnesium to affect struvite forming cats. It's an issue of scale, calcium in a food can range from 0.64% to 1.2%, whereas magnesium in a food ranges from 0.064% to 0.1%, nearly a ten fold value. Thus smaller amounts of magnesium in the water can rarely be a problem. Why do veterinarians tend to prescribe the Hill's s/d food for cats with urinary problems (possibly crystals) if they don't yet know what kind of crystals they are? Wouldn't feeding a cat with oxalate crystals the s/d food make the problem worse? The formation of a calcium oxalate crystal does not occur overnight. If the vet finds a stone, either by palpation or x-ray, they will prescribe s/d and then watch the stone. If it begins to dissolve they continue to feed s/d. If it maintains its' size or shows any growth over a months period of time then they can assume the stone is non-struvite and plan on surgery. s/d can indeed cause the formation and growth of CaOx stones, however that process is not something that happens overnight, it takes considerable time. The use of s/d to diagnose the stone (in the absence of crystals in the urine for diagnosis) is a valuable way to determine the type of stone. If the stone is indeed CaOx then leaving the cat on s/d would certainly be contraindicated. Because of the urine pH that s/d creates (5.9-6.1) it should not be fed for more than 6 months at a time. |
#7
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Thanks to everyone who replied. Your answers were all very helpful. I
have a few final questions. If a veterinarian prescribes s/d dry food for possible struvite crystals, shouldn't canned food also be fed to the cat? What if a cat won't eat the s/d canned food? Is it ok to feed it regular canned food and just add a little water to it in addition to the s/d dry? I would think any canned food would be better than no canned food at all. "Steve Crane" wrote in message news:_QCbc.4231$sd5.385@okepread02... "Mike" wrote in message om... I'd like to educate myself more on FLUTD/FUS. The problem is that I can't seem to find the answers to these questions. Does anyone know the answers or would like to add their own comments? Are some breeds of cats more likely to get the oxalate crystals than the struvite crystals? If so, anyone know what breeds? Yes, Persian, Burmese, Himalayan are more prone to CaOx formation than other breeds. In addition, as cats age, the risks change. Younger cats from 1-6 are more prone to Struvite, after age 7 cats are more likley to form CaOx than struvite. Why is it that if a cat eats just as much or more canned food than dry food that it can still develop crystals? People always act like feeding a cat canned food will prevent crystals but it doesn't. Are there any reasons why it doesn't? Cats that eat canned foods excrete the majority of the water in the urine. This greatly dilutes the urine and thus reduces the risk of crystal formation. Cats which eat dry foods and drink an equal amount of free water as the cats ingesting water in canned foods, will excrete the majority of the water in the feces. Thus the dilution of the urine will decrease and crystal formation is more likely. Canned foods alone cannot "cure" crystal formation. Excessive levels of calcium, magnesium, and phosphates in a canned diet can overcome the dilution factor provided by a canned food. If a cat's drinking water has a lot of calcium in it, could that possibly contribute or even cause a cat to develop oxalate crystals? It is unlikely that the water would have enough calcium in it to have any real consequences. The amount of calcium a cat ingests from the foods it eats is vastly greater than any tiny amounts that might be in the water. On the other hand it is possible, but quite rare to have drinking water with high enough levels of magnesium to affect struvite forming cats. It's an issue of scale, calcium in a food can range from 0.64% to 1.2%, whereas magnesium in a food ranges from 0.064% to 0.1%, nearly a ten fold value. Thus smaller amounts of magnesium in the water can rarely be a problem. Why do veterinarians tend to prescribe the Hill's s/d food for cats with urinary problems (possibly crystals) if they don't yet know what kind of crystals they are? Wouldn't feeding a cat with oxalate crystals the s/d food make the problem worse? The formation of a calcium oxalate crystal does not occur overnight. If the vet finds a stone, either by palpation or x-ray, they will prescribe s/d and then watch the stone. If it begins to dissolve they continue to feed s/d. If it maintains its' size or shows any growth over a months period of time then they can assume the stone is non-struvite and plan on surgery. s/d can indeed cause the formation and growth of CaOx stones, however that process is not something that happens overnight, it takes considerable time. The use of s/d to diagnose the stone (in the absence of crystals in the urine for diagnosis) is a valuable way to determine the type of stone. If the stone is indeed CaOx then leaving the cat on s/d would certainly be contraindicated. Because of the urine pH that s/d creates (5.9-6.1) it should not be fed for more than 6 months at a time. |
#8
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"Mike" wrote in message m... Thanks to everyone who replied. Your answers were all very helpful. I have a few final questions. If a veterinarian prescribes s/d dry food for possible struvite crystals, shouldn't canned food also be fed to the cat? Not necessarily. In many cases the cat may already prefer dry food, or the veterinarian may have additional reasons for peferring a dry version of s/d. What if a cat won't eat the s/d canned food? Is it ok to feed it regular canned food and just add a little water to it in addition to the s/d dry? No, it's a great deal more complicated than simply switching to a canned food. Adding any other foods except the food prescribed may completely alter the activity of the food. Adding only 10% canned food to the diet could boost the magnesium, calcium or phosphates enough to negate the purpose of the food entirely. I would think any canned food would be better than no canned food at all. No, if the cat is eating the dry s/d without a problem adding "any" canned food could seriously alter the net chemistry involved. If you wish to add canned food - then add the canned version of s/d. Before you make any decision you should consult with your veterinarian. Only s/he has actually seen your cat and can make legitimate and appropriate recommendations. |
#9
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"Mike" wrote in message m... Thanks to everyone who replied. Your answers were all very helpful. I have a few final questions. If a veterinarian prescribes s/d dry food for possible struvite crystals, shouldn't canned food also be fed to the cat? Not necessarily. In many cases the cat may already prefer dry food, or the veterinarian may have additional reasons for peferring a dry version of s/d. What if a cat won't eat the s/d canned food? Is it ok to feed it regular canned food and just add a little water to it in addition to the s/d dry? No, it's a great deal more complicated than simply switching to a canned food. Adding any other foods except the food prescribed may completely alter the activity of the food. Adding only 10% canned food to the diet could boost the magnesium, calcium or phosphates enough to negate the purpose of the food entirely. I would think any canned food would be better than no canned food at all. No, if the cat is eating the dry s/d without a problem adding "any" canned food could seriously alter the net chemistry involved. If you wish to add canned food - then add the canned version of s/d. Before you make any decision you should consult with your veterinarian. Only s/he has actually seen your cat and can make legitimate and appropriate recommendations. |
#10
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I have just a few more questions and I apologize for having more
questions than I thought I would. If a cat has had an urinalysis done, is it possible that it wouldn't show crystals even if the cat has them? Can a cat have crystals and not stones? Shouldn't a urinalysis show the cat's urine pH? If a cat has oxalate stones wouldn't the urinalysis show that the urine pH is acidic? I've been talking to my cousin whose cat is having urinary problems so he's been asking me for advice. His vet didn't run any tests or anything on the cat and just prescribed the s/d food and said to come back in 4 months to see if the cat was better. Does that seem weird to anyone else? The vet I take my cat to did three urinalysis within a month and prescribed an antibiotic. After a month, since nothing was helping, an x-ray was done and the vet said the cat had stones. The s/d food was prescribed and a month later another x-ray was done. Nothing had changed on the x-ray and the stones were still there so surgery was done to remove them. The doctor had them sent to be analyzed and confirmed that they were oxalate stones. So all of this has brought up questions. It seems that the first vet isn't handling this properly and a second opinion is in order. The vet I took my cat to makes me wonder about the urinalysis. It seems like it should've shown that the urine was acidic since he had the oxalate stones. Or maybe I'm just overreacting. A veterinarian I used to take my cats to lied about the health of one of my cat's and it took years off the cat's life. The vet I'm currently taking my cat to makes me wonder about his judgment. So I just don't know what to believe anymore. |
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