no more dry cat food?

The other is a book written by the
veterinarian who developed the canned diabetic prescription diet for
Purina and maintains thehttp://www.yourdiabeticcat.comwebsite. You
really should check them out. I think you would learn a lot.- Hide quoted text -

Just from the front page of the website I listed above, here is a very
good overview of why dry food is so bad for cats:

" As important as the proper management of feline diabetes is, it may
be even more important that cat lovers learn to prevent this terrible
disease in any cat with whom they ever share a home in the future.
Diabetes in the cat is a man-made disease, which is completely
preventable by avoiding the "kitty junk-food" that is dry kibbled cat
food. Without question, it is the continuous, day-in, day-out
consumption of this poor-quality, highly processed, carbohydrate rich
"breakfast cereal for cats" that causes so many felines to become
diabetic.

Many cats also become obese from such a terrible diet, but
obesity does not cause diabetes, as some experts would have cat owners
think. Rather, obesity and diabetes simply have the same cause, non-
nutritious, high carbohydrate commercial cat food. To prevent both
obesity and diabetes, we need only avoid such junk food when we feed
our cats. Instead, we must feed the cat what it evolved to eat: meat.
Fortunately, there are many canned and pouched cat foods, as well as
many recipes for raw meat diets, that provide good quality nutrition
of the obligatory carnivore that is the cat.

You will hear some experts say that dietary fat causes diabetes.
This is simply not true. The pet food companies, all of which use
massive amounts of cereal to make their dry cat foods, wish to deflect
criticism from this terrible ingredient for cats. Most commercial cat
foods are quite low in fat; if this ingredient were responsible for
feline diabetes, we would see very little of it. These same experts
will tell you that the key to a good diet for diabetic cats is high
protein, this is simply not true. It is dietary CARBOHYDRATE, pure and
simple, not high fat or low protein that leads to diabetes in cats.

If you reduce the carbohydrate in a diet, you must increase the
protein or the fat in the diet, or both, in order to take the place of
the reduced carbohydrate, so low carbohydrate diets will often have
higher protein as a result. It is not the increase in protein that
makes these diets work, however, it is the reduction in carbohydrate
that gives the results. The cat's natural diet is high in protein
(about 45-70% dry matter), moderate in fat (about 15-35% dry matter),
and very low in carbohydrate (0-5% dry matter). Contrast this with the
breakdown of most dry kibble for cats with moderate protein (22-34%
dry matter), low fat (10-25% dry matter) and very high carbohydrate
from processed cereals (35-50% dry matter). Clearly dry cat foods are
entirely upsidedown compared to the natural prey diet of the cat. You
cannot put the wrong fuel in any engine, day after day, year after
year, without dire consequences. "

On Apr 8, 3:45*pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote:
"Joy" wrote in message

...





wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 12:28 pm, "Granby" wrote:
I asked my vet about this and he didn't have a clue where this info came
from. He likes a combination of wet/dry

Unfortunately, your vet is like many others that have been brainwashed
by the pet food companies over the years and for whatever reason have
not bothered to investigate newer research on feline nutrition.

***

I think this is rather harsh. *Considering the fact that canned food is
quite a bit more expensive than dry food, it is equally possible that your
boss and many others have been brainwahsed by the pet food companies so
they can sell more of the expensive wet food.

What would cats eat "in the wild?" *Birds, mice, rats, that sort of thing,
and they are "wet."
I would say more like people are brainwashed by the pet food companies into
giving their cats "dry" TBH.
We have all read how bad dry is for boys. It can cause blocked urethers.
Dry has it's place but it can be an easy option. *"Everything your cat needs
IS in this food"
Probably it is, which is not to say that they will live a long life on it.

Dry food was invented not for the benefit of the cat, but simply for
convenience and as a way to get rid of industrial leftovers. Here is a
very good article that gives a history of how dry food came to be and
some pretty scary details that resulted in the death or many cats (and
I believe that one of mine was one.) http://www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.php


Boyfriend was probably reared in his former life on dry. *He is on wet with
a sprinkle of dry. He would eat exclusively dry if given the chance, he is
not given that choice.

KFC has never seen dry in her life. * She eats wet, having caught her own
food all her life she only wants what Boyfie catches for her now or what wet
I give her
Maybe that is why she's 22.

I'm betting you're exactly right. :-)

Tweed- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

To me this is in the same boat with the ones that are now saying people
don't need a lot of water in their daily routine. The day I heard that I
also heard someone who was against all these plastic water bottles say "If
we can just get one third of the people not to drink bottle water we will
save....." Not on either side of the issue as such but there are always two
versions of the same tale.
"Matthew" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 2:36 pm, "Joy" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Apr 8, 12:28 pm, "Granby" wrote:

I asked my vet about this and he didn't have a clue where this info
came
from. He likes a combination of wet/dry

Unfortunately, your vet is like many others that have been brainwashed
by the pet food companies over the years and for whatever reason have
not bothered to investigate newer research on feline nutrition.

***

I think this is rather harsh. Considering the fact that canned food is
quite a bit more expensive than dry food, it is equally possible that
your
boss and many others have been brainwahsed by the pet food companies so
they
can sell more of the expensive wet food.

Joy

No, it's not harsh. It's the truth. I can assure you that the vet I
work for has the cat's best interests at heart and does not let
potential profit affect his decisions on how he treats his patients.
It is ALL about the health and welfare of the cats and he has been
known to bend over backwards to help felines who have been failed by
other vets. My boss despises pet food reps ( he often gripes about how
they should not be allowed in vet schools) and just ran the Iams rep
out of the office the other day :-) He doesn't sell that much food (he
only carries a small inventory due to space) and more often than not
sends his clients to local, smaller stores that carry a good variety
of the high-quality canned and raw diets.


Actually IMO it is

I can see you are very passionate about this so I am not going to get a
debate going or get any feelings hurt . But remember you are dealing with
hundreds of cat lovers here scattered across the globe. Last time I
looked over 18 countries. There are people that have diabetics cats, blind
cats, epileptic cats, cats with hyperthyroidism, FiV positive cats, rescue
people, vet techs and many more list of health issues and type of cat
slaves. 99.99% of us trust our vets here. Yes there is always something
to learn but will I take the advice of a vet or no offense a newbie who I
have no idea who they are or their back ground The answer is NOT A
CHANCE.

I have learned something over the years for everything that says it is
good there just as much that says it is bad. I have had cats for many
,many decades. Quite a few never would eat wet food and they lived long
happy healthy lives. Dry food and wet food so does a raw diet lead to
Diabetes when it is not properly monitored free feeding, treats and stupid
humans are the main problems.

Raw diets are more complicated if you don't know what you are doing. If
not enough protein and taurine than you are in trouble

I currently have a diabetic cat, and epileptic cat and a cat with
hyperthyroidism. Their diet is a mix of dry and wet. Rumble diabetes is
under control insulin free for a few years now. Phantoms is in great
health even with Hyperthyroidism he still has his appetite. Ka'shay,
Dumplin' and Limo refuse to eat wet food and have no interest in human
food or the raw diet. Their diet is regulate by my vet all my cats are in
great health according to their work ups. I use Iams, fancy feast, Purina
and all the others your vet doesn't like. I recently lost my Spirit due
to complications when he got poisoned by wet food last year during the pet
food recall. So who Do I believe? No offense I think I will trust my vet



Some Vets are brainwashed is more the proper words

With the wet pet food poisoning last year many people turned to dry no
matter what info is available that sticks in the back of their heads.

I have passed the age of 60 and remember before there was "Cat or Dog food"
for the average person. People who are so sure they are right and everyone
else is wrong scare me. I don't need this.
*PLUNK*
wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 3:36 pm, "Matthew" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Apr 8, 2:36 pm, "Joy" wrote:





wrote in message

...
On Apr 8, 12:28 pm, "Granby" wrote:

I asked my vet about this and he didn't have a clue where this info
came
from. He likes a combination of wet/dry

Unfortunately, your vet is like many others that have been brainwashed
by the pet food companies over the years and for whatever reason have
not bothered to investigate newer research on feline nutrition.

***

I think this is rather harsh. Considering the fact that canned food is
quite a bit more expensive than dry food, it is equally possible that
your
boss and many others have been brainwahsed by the pet food companies so
they
can sell more of the expensive wet food.

Joy

No, it's not harsh. It's the truth. I can assure you that the vet I
work for has the cat's best interests at heart and does not let
potential profit affect his decisions on how he treats his patients.
It is ALL about the health and welfare of the cats and he has been
known to bend over backwards to help felines who have been failed by
other vets. My boss despises pet food reps ( he often gripes about how
they should not be allowed in vet schools) and just ran the Iams rep
out of the office the other day :-) He doesn't sell that much food (he
only carries a small inventory due to space) and more often than not
sends his clients to local, smaller stores that carry a good variety
of the high-quality canned and raw diets.

Actually IMO it is

I can see you are very passionate about this so I am not going to get a
debate going or get any feelings hurt . But remember you are dealing with
hundreds of cat lovers here scattered across the globe. Last time I looked
over 18 countries. There are people that have diabetics cats, blind cats,
epileptic cats, cats with hyperthyroidism, FiV positive cats, rescue
people,
vet techs and many more list of health issues and type of cat slaves.
99.99% of us trust our vets here. Yes there is always something to learn
but will I take the advice of a vet or no offense a newbie who I have no
idea who they are or their back ground The answer is NOT A CHANCE.

First of all, I am hardly a "newbie." You need simply to check my
posting history to see I've been around various newsgroups since at
least 2005. I have also posted here before, but I mostly just lurk.
Second, regardless of where someone lives or what conditions their
cats might have, it does not in any way shape or form change anything
about the physiology of a feline and what they truly require. Can you
honestly say a bowl of dry crumbs is an appropriate diet for ANY
living creature??? Have you seen the movie Soylent Green? If we are
unable to feed a CARNIVORE what it would eat naturally (birds and
mice, etc) then doesn't common sense dictate we should try to feed it
something as close to that as possible? This means a MEAT, moisture
rich diet, whether it is canned or raw. Grain filled kibble does not
fall into this equation and is an extremely poor, potentially harmful
substitute.


I have learned something over the years for everything that says it is
good
there just as much that says it is bad. I have had cats for many ,many
decades. Quite a few never would eat wet food and they lived long happy
healthy lives.

This is not a cogent argument. There are also plenty of people that
smoke two packs and drink a six pack every day of their lives and live
to be 90. It doesn't mean their health is great. They may have lived
to be 100 without the booze and cigs. I don't know about you, but I
feel that I have an obligation to do what is best and feed what is
most species appropriate for my cats.

Dry food and wet food so does a raw diet lead to Diabetes
when it is not properly monitored free feeding, treats and stupid humans
are
the main problems.

This is not correct. A correlation between a dry food diet and
diabetes has been shown but NO such correlation has been shown for
canned or raw food and diabetes. If you have a cite that says
otherwise please share it but I am pretty sure one does not exist.

Raw diets are more complicated if you don't know what you are doing. If
not
enough protein and taurine than you are in trouble

There are plenty of websites that have nutritionally complete recipes
for raw diets. http://www.catnutrition.org is one. There are also
commercially prepared raw diets that are very good and which I use
myself.


I currently have a diabetic cat, and epileptic cat and a cat with
hyperthyroidism. Their diet is a mix of dry and wet. Rumble diabetes is
under control insulin free for a few years now. Phantoms is in great
health
even with Hyperthyroidism he still has his appetite. Ka'shay, Dumplin' and
Limo refuse to eat wet food and have no interest in human food or the raw
diet. Their diet is regulate by my vet all my cats are in great health
according to their work ups. I use Iams, fancy feast, Purina and all the
others your vet doesn't like. I recently lost my Spirit due to
complications when he got poisoned by wet food last year during the pet
food
recall. So who Do I believe? No offense I think I will trust my vet

And you should know that there have also been recalls on dry food
which have everything to do with the grains in them and mycotoxins.
What you should also realize is that none of the grain free canned
foods (Wellness, Innova Evo, Nature's Variety) were at risk and none
were recalled. I'm surprised you would have any of your cats on dry
food considering that you were able to bring your diabetic cat into
remission by feeding him a low carb canned diet. If you are indeed
feeding him any sort of dry food be aware that you are putting him at
risk for coming out of remission. Don't think that because it hasn't
happened yet that it won't.


Some Vets are brainwashed is more the proper words

Many are. I have access to one of the most well known veterinary
groups called VIN. I will tell you that you would be shocked if you
read the message boards and found out just how ignorant most vets are
about feline nutrition, not to mention treating diabetes and kidney
failure. Fortunately, most of the consultants that help there are
board certified in many areas and stay ahead of the curve with regards
to feline nutrition. They are overwhelmingly recommending canned food
and the elimination of dry diets for cats. I posted two links in a
previous message. One is a feline nutrition website written and
maintained by a veterinarian. The other is a book written by the
veterinarian who developed the canned diabetic prescription diet for
Purina and maintains the http://www.yourdiabeticcat.com website. You
really should check them out. I think you would learn a lot.

On Apr 8, 5:18*pm, "Granby" wrote:
I have passed the age of 60 and remember before there was "Cat or Dog food"
for the average person. *People who are so sure they are right and everyone
else is wrong scare me. *I don't need this.
*PLUNK

I'm sorry you feel that way. I have made a concerted effort to offer
not just my opinion, but cites to back up what I am saying. I have
always been of the mindset that you can teach an old dog new tricks,
but it seems you are not interested in learning anything new and it's
really too bad. I should also point out that I am not alone here and
there are several that are saying the same thing. Will you be
"plunk"ing them as well?

yepp wrote:
Yeah, she said to think of it like an Atkins diet. Low or no carbs
and high in protein. That is the best. Bonnie throws up a lot and
that is what got the discussion going on food.

Cats are obligate carnivores, they have no (zero) requirement for carbs
in their diet.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

wrote:
First of all, I am hardly a "newbie." You need simply to check my
posting history to see I've been around various newsgroups since at
least 2005. I have also posted here before, but I mostly just lurk.

That makes you a newbie...

Victor, who's been posting since at least 1995.



--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

Joy wrote:
As far as I can see, there are two schools of thought. One group of vets
say dry food is better for their teeth. The other group says wet food is

That argument really does not hold water, as cats mostly eat their
kibble whole, as shown by the barfs I clean every so often.
We but them Science Diet Oral Care kibble, which is big, dog-sized. That
one they *have* to chew, thus letting the kibble abrade the tartar on
their teeth.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 5:18 pm, "Granby" wrote:
I have passed the age of 60 and remember before there was "Cat or Dog
food"
for the average person. People who are so sure they are right and
everyone
else is wrong scare me. I don't need this.
*PLUNK

I'm sorry you feel that way. I have made a concerted effort to offer
not just my opinion, but cites to back up what I am saying. I have
always been of the mindset that you can teach an old dog new tricks,
but it seems you are not interested in learning anything new and it's
really too bad. I should also point out that I am not alone here and
there are several that are saying the same thing. Will you be
"plunk"ing them as well?
*********

Get over yourself, OK?

This is a cat anecdote group. Got any cute stories?

I don't come here to be ranted at by someone who it would appear has
decided what it best for everyone all the time and insists that anyone who
might not agree wholeheartly is not only wrong but bad.

Jo

On Apr 8, 6:13*pm, Victor Martinez wrote:
wrote:
First of all, I am hardly a "newbie." You need simply to check my
posting history to see I've been around various newsgroups since at
least 2005. I have also posted here before, but I mostly just lurk.

That makes you a newbie...

Victor, who's been posting since at least 1995.

OK, you got me there! :-P