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Declawing
John Doe wrote: "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" evgmsop earthlink.net wrote: John Doe wrote: Cats use their claws for practically everything they do, not just for self-defense. Cats use their claws for hunting, playing, exercise, soft defense, and for getting from here to there. Have you ever actually OBSERVED a declawed cat in action? I have not, and I never will except maybe by chance. But I have this thing called COMMON SENSE Really? Your posts certainly do not display much of it! that trumps your claim to have a declawed cat and your superficial observations. Not "superficial" at all, since I have actually LIVED with a declawed cat, and you admit you have not! (Are you REALLY as ignorant as you make yourself appear to be?) Watching Cendrillon, you'd not realize she has no front claws. As more than a superficial observer, the difference would be obvious to me. I challenge you to prove it! She still has TOES, after all - The idea that a cat's toes are comparable to a cat's claws is just silly. However, if you knew as much as you think you do, you'd be aware that the declawing process involves amputation of the first joint of the cat's toes. (Ergo....) they only amputate the first joint in the declawing process. People might not be very happy to lose the first joints of their fingers, either, but as amputees, they'd adjust - their hands and the remains of the fingers (including the opposable thumb) would still be there. There is no comparison between a cat's claw and an individual joint of a human finger. Why not? Declawing a cat involves just that amputation? Cats do not use their joints to hang on to anything, (Rest of ignorant tirade snipped.) I don't believe in docking dogs' tails, either, but even tail-less they manage to "wag". And what the **** does a dog's tail have to do with a cat's claws? It's an integral part of the dog's anatomy, and equally necessary to it's total well-being. (Idiot!) |
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Declawing
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote
John Doe wrote: John Doe almost looks like a spammer to me but hard to tell. Have you ever actually OBSERVED a declawed cat in action? I have not, and I never will except maybe by chance. But I have this thing called COMMON SENSE Really? Your posts certainly do not display much of it! I rescued 2 cats I didnt want and was afraid to take. The owner was having them put to sleep as his new wife developed an 'allergy' when pregnant. I think her 'allergy' was cleaning the cat litter so he had to do it. (There are reasons why pregnant humans shouldn't do that for a bit). The guy wanted to review my home to be sure I was 'suitable for his beloved kitties'. AKA spick and span clean and all that. I cleaned up, and took the kitties adding them to a 2 cat existing household and i have *never* declawed a cat. I learned instead how to train them to acceptable behavior. These 2 new kitties minced in with pain. A sad story and a rather ugly one. I took them to my vet right away as even for declawed cats, this was very abnormal. Vet took all the info I had on the guy and tried to take him to court for animal abuse. Although he could not 'prove' it, he suspected the guy did the job himself with toenail clippers. All 4 paws on both of them. We never got the guy and the vet did me the best cut rare deal of 100$ a foot for the 2 of them that he could (this was cost of materials and meds only) to make it so they could walk pain-free. I admit this is a radical case but I am just ever so much into not declawing since that. Not "superficial" at all, since I have actually LIVED with a declawed cat, and you admit you have not! (Are you REALLY as ignorant as you make yourself appear to be?) My attributes may be wrong (sue me). I have lived with 2 declawed and 2 normals at the same time. Fast I noted front declaw alone leads to more hissing and defence becomes BITING which leads to vet due to puncture wounds, rare in clawed kitties. And what the **** does a dog's tail have to do with a cat's claws? It's an integral part of the dog's anatomy, and equally necessary to it's total well-being. (Idiot!) There we may differ a tiny bit. I don't agree with docking for dogs, but we have over bred some versions to where they literally break their tails and it may have to be done later to give them ability if it can't be reset. You may find a search on 'cold tail' useful there. Our Cash-pup broke his tail before we got him and had an incident about 1 year after we got him but it healed. If it happens again, we may have to dock him to remove the pain if he gets an unmovable tail hanging down. He's not your traditional 'dock tail' sort so it isnt for cosmetics. Imagine part of your spine broken then hanging helplessly down and hurting all the time. Thats when 'docking' is medical. It removes the weight hanging down that they *cant* do anything about except feel pain from. So, my stance (forgive me if messed attributes up) is declawing is never needed or good, but docking a dog *may* sometimes be a medical need. |
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Declawing
"cshenk" "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote John Doe wrote: John Doe almost looks like a spammer to me but hard to tell. I agree Have you ever actually OBSERVED a declawed cat in action? I have not, and I never will except maybe by chance. But I have this thing called COMMON SENSE Really? Your posts certainly do not display much of it! I rescued 2 cats I didnt want and was afraid to take. The owner was having them put to sleep as his new wife developed an 'allergy' when pregnant. I think her 'allergy' was cleaning the cat litter so he had to do it. (There are reasons why pregnant humans shouldn't do that for a bit). The guy wanted to review my home to be sure I was 'suitable for his beloved kitties'. AKA spick and span clean and all that. I cleaned up, and took the kitties adding them to a 2 cat existing household and i have *never* declawed a cat. I learned instead how to train them to acceptable behavior. These 2 new kitties minced in with pain. A sad story and a rather ugly one. I took them to my vet right away as even for declawed cats, this was very abnormal. Vet took all the info I had on the guy and tried to take him to court for animal abuse. Although he could not 'prove' it, he suspected the guy did the job himself with toenail clippers. All 4 paws on both of them. We never got the guy and the vet did me the best cut rare deal of 100$ a foot for the 2 of them that he could (this was cost of materials and meds only) to make it so they could walk pain-free. I admit this is a radical case but I am just ever so much into not declawing since that. Not "superficial" at all, since I have actually LIVED with a declawed cat, and you admit you have not! (Are you REALLY as ignorant as you make yourself appear to be?) My attributes may be wrong (sue me). I have lived with 2 declawed and 2 normals at the same time. Fast I noted front declaw alone leads to more hissing and defence becomes BITING which leads to vet due to puncture wounds, rare in clawed kitties. And what the **** does a dog's tail have to do with a cat's claws? Nice words Joe :/ It's an integral part of the dog's anatomy, and equally necessary to it's total well-being. (Idiot!) There we may differ a tiny bit. I don't agree with docking for dogs, but we have over bred some versions to where they literally break their tails and it may have to be done later to give them ability if it can't be reset. You may find a search on 'cold tail' useful there. Our Cash-pup broke his tail before we got him and had an incident about 1 year after we got him but it healed. If it happens again, we may have to dock him to remove the pain if he gets an unmovable tail hanging down. He's not your traditional 'dock tail' sort so it isnt for cosmetics. Imagine part of your spine broken then hanging helplessly down and hurting all the time. Thats when 'docking' is medical. It removes the weight hanging down that they *cant* do anything about except feel pain from. So, my stance (forgive me if messed attributes up) is declawing is never needed or good, but docking a dog *may* sometimes be a medical need. Thank you..I think declawing is wrong for any reason and that's the last I am saying on the subject....it makes me sick!!! And yes, Joe is an idiot!!! Kyla |
#4
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Declawing
cshenk wrote: My attributes may be wrong (sue me). I have lived with 2 declawed and 2 normals at the same time. Fast I noted front declaw alone leads to more hissing and defence becomes BITING which leads to vet due to puncture wounds, rare in clawed kitties. I suspect that may be largely a matter of the individual cat's temperament. It's Melisande (the cat with all her claws) who tends to bite, often for no discernible reason. Cendrillon, on the other hand, has never bitten me - and come to think of it, I don't remember ever hearing her hiss! Of course, my observations involve only one cat that has been declawed, and anyone who has ever lived with cats knows that there is NO statement beginning with "All cats...." that does not have a multitude of exceptions. My two seem very closely bonded - they groom each other affectionately, sleep together on my bed at night, and most of their "aggressive" games are clearly play. |
#5
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Declawing
"Kyla =^..^=" wrote
"cshenk" "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote John Doe wrote: John Doe almost looks like a spammer to me but hard to tell. I agree Hard to tell. I rescued 2 cats I didnt want and was afraid to take. The owner was having them put to sleep as his new wife developed an 'allergy' when pregnant. I think her 'allergy' was cleaning the cat litter so he had to do it. (There are reasons why pregnant humans shouldn't do that for a bit). The guy wanted to review my home to be sure I was 'suitable for his beloved kitties'. AKA spick and span clean and all that. The OP said if I didnt pass muster, he was having thew 2 cats put the sleep. He 'loved them to much to let them go to an impefect house'. I cleaned up, and took the kitties adding them to a 2 cat existing household and i have *never* declawed a cat. I learned instead how to train them to acceptable behavior. These 2 new kitties minced in with pain. A sad story and a rather ugly one. I took them to my vet right away as even for declawed cats, this was very abnormal. Vet took all the info I had on the guy and tried to take him to court for animal abuse. Although he could not 'prove' it, he suspected the guy did the job himself with toenail clippers. All 4 paws on both of them. We never got the guy and the vet did me the best cut rare deal of 100$ a foot for the 2 of them that he could (this was cost of materials and meds only) to make it so they could walk pain-free. I admit this is a radical case but I am just ever so much into not declawing since that. Not "superficial" at all, since I have actually LIVED with a declawed cat, and you admit you have not! (Are you REALLY as ignorant as you make yourself appear to be?) My attributes may be wrong (sue me). I have lived with 2 declawed and 2 normals at the same time. Fast I noted front declaw alone leads to more hissing and defence becomes BITING which leads to vet due to puncture wounds, rare in clawed kitties. And what the **** does a dog's tail have to do with a cat's claws? Nice words Joe :/ He's not relating a potential medical need with a 'gee it would be nice it they cant scratch the couch'. Lets face it, I rescued 2 cats from an asshole and even the vet tried to find him to charge him with animal abuse. It's an integral part of the dog's anatomy, and equally necessary to it's total well-being. (Idiot!) There we may differ a tiny bit. I don't agree with docking for dogs, but we have over bred some versions to where they literally break their tails and it may have to be done later to give them ability if it can't be reset. You may find a search on 'cold tail' useful there. Our Cash-pup broke his tail before we got him and had an incident about 1 year after we got him but it healed. If it happens again, we may have to dock him to remove the pain if he gets an unmovable tail hanging down. He's not your traditional 'dock tail' sort so it isnt for cosmetics. Imagine part of your spine broken then hanging helplessly down and hurting all the time. Thats when 'docking' is medical. It removes the weight hanging down that they *cant* do anything about except feel pain from. So, my stance (forgive me if messed attributes up) is declawing is never needed or good, but docking a dog *may* sometimes be a medical need. Thank you..I think declawing is wrong for any reason and that's the last I am saying on the subject....it makes me sick!!! And yes, Joe is an idiot!!! Kyla Unilaterally claiming docking of a dog is 'bad' can be the same. I would not do it just based on breed, but it is possible to save *Cash-pup* pain, we may have to in the future. Imagine a broken piece of your spine you cant lift or wag that hurts all the time and you can see where this can be a medical issue. They sometimes need to dock a cats tail over the same. Buddy (cat) had to be 'docked'. He was hit by a car and I adopted him off the humane society in something like 1981. I was told his tail was crushed beyond repair except the stub of about 2 inches. Cash-pup has a broken tail but it causes no pain. If he re-breaks it, he will need pain meds and docking to reduce his pain. This is a medical procedure in this case, not cosmetic. Sad smile, he's a mixed breed but looks more beagle and you don't doc beagles normally. I'm hoping he never needs it as he's happier as nature made him. |
#6
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Declawing
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message m... cshenk wrote: My attributes may be wrong (sue me). I have lived with 2 declawed and 2 normals at the same time. Fast I noted front declaw alone leads to more hissing and defence becomes BITING which leads to vet due to puncture wounds, rare in clawed kitties. I suspect that may be largely a matter of the individual cat's temperament. It's Melisande (the cat with all her claws) who tends to bite, often for no discernible reason. Cendrillon, on the other hand, has never bitten me - and come to think of it, I don't remember ever hearing her hiss! Of course, my observations involve only one cat that has been declawed, and anyone who has ever lived with cats knows that there is NO statement beginning with "All cats...." that does not have a multitude of exceptions. My two seem very closely bonded - they groom each other affectionately, sleep together on my bed at night, and most of their "aggressive" games are clearly play. Biting transmits diseases such as FIV, but scratching with front claws doesn't......Yet another reason to discourage declawing cats....... |
#7
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Declawing
"cshenk" cshenk1 cox.net wrote:
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote John Doe wrote: John Doe almost looks like a spammer to me but hard to tell. BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!! Where did that silliness come from? In fact, I am a spammer's worst (private) enemy. -- Path: news.astraweb.com!border5.newsrouter.astraweb.com! news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!Xl.tags.giganews.co m!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com! local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POS TED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:27:17 -0500 From: "cshenk" cshenk1 cox.net Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec.pets.cats.health+behav References: 4b553702$0$2428$834e42db reader.greatnowhere.com 00066c73$0$2718$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com RPudnaQ3G4JS3fLWnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d giganews.com 4bbd743f$0$24367$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com VN2dnfBKaM0xsCPWnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d earthlink.com 4c43ddb6$0$14495$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com JtidnQodT5HJKNnRnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d earthlink.com 4c44e0c2$0$32543$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com ipidnWD2kP3Lu9vRnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d earthlink.com In-Reply-To: ipidnWD2kP3Lu9vRnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d earthlink.com Subject: Declawing Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:27:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18197 Message-ID: WJOdnXedaZV4o9vRnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d giganews.com Lines: 66 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-Trace: sv3-mzeQJhVsfcSR9xwz5xbLw378rvoraouV4Cuv3ttfCkpoRJHe+7 AE1c8abJn032MkH+WJgcW50g2jZb+!vFgIbxKd4DBwp/StA/EmME3WUVnn8uJvovt/PALAcSzcZBCooU0Z/0DR7Jlu/wJ+s3ei6IoiuUOD X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 |
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Declawing
"Kyla =^..^=" klya YOOhoo.not wrote:
"cshenk" "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote John Doe wrote: John Doe almost looks like a spammer to me but hard to tell. I agree lol silly troll -- Have you ever actually OBSERVED a declawed cat in action? I have not, and I never will except maybe by chance. But I have this thing called COMMON SENSE Really? Your posts certainly do not display much of it! I rescued 2 cats I didnt want and was afraid to take. The owner was having them put to sleep as his new wife developed an 'allergy' when pregnant. I think her 'allergy' was cleaning the cat litter so he had to do it. (There are reasons why pregnant humans shouldn't do that for a bit). The guy wanted to review my home to be sure I was 'suitable for his beloved kitties'. AKA spick and span clean and all that. I cleaned up, and took the kitties adding them to a 2 cat existing household and i have *never* declawed a cat. I learned instead how to train them to acceptable behavior. These 2 new kitties minced in with pain. A sad story and a rather ugly one. I took them to my vet right away as even for declawed cats, this was very abnormal. Vet took all the info I had on the guy and tried to take him to court for animal abuse. Although he could not 'prove' it, he suspected the guy did the job himself with toenail clippers. All 4 paws on both of them. We never got the guy and the vet did me the best cut rare deal of 100$ a foot for the 2 of them that he could (this was cost of materials and meds only) to make it so they could walk pain-free. I admit this is a radical case but I am just ever so much into not declawing since that. Not "superficial" at all, since I have actually LIVED with a declawed cat, and you admit you have not! (Are you REALLY as ignorant as you make yourself appear to be?) My attributes may be wrong (sue me). I have lived with 2 declawed and 2 normals at the same time. Fast I noted front declaw alone leads to more hissing and defence becomes BITING which leads to vet due to puncture wounds, rare in clawed kitties. And what the **** does a dog's tail have to do with a cat's claws? Nice words Joe :/ It's an integral part of the dog's anatomy, and equally necessary to it's total well-being. (Idiot!) There we may differ a tiny bit. I don't agree with docking for dogs, but we have over bred some versions to where they literally break their tails and it may have to be done later to give them ability if it can't be reset. You may find a search on 'cold tail' useful there. Our Cash-pup broke his tail before we got him and had an incident about 1 year after we got him but it healed. If it happens again, we may have to dock him to remove the pain if he gets an unmovable tail hanging down. He's not your traditional 'dock tail' sort so it isnt for cosmetics. Imagine part of your spine broken then hanging helplessly down and hurting all the time. Thats when 'docking' is medical. It removes the weight hanging down that they *cant* do anything about except feel pain from. So, my stance (forgive me if messed attributes up) is declawing is never needed or good, but docking a dog *may* sometimes be a medical need. Thank you..I think declawing is wrong for any reason and that's the last I am saying on the subject....it makes me sick!!! And yes, Joe is an idiot!!! Kyla Path: news.astraweb.com!border5.newsrouter.astraweb.com! npeer01.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: "Kyla =^..^=" klya YOOhoo.not Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec.pets.cats.health+behav Subject: Declawing Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 21:12:01 -0700 Lines: 80 Message-ID: 8anac5FikoU1 mid.individual.net References: 4b553702$0$2428$834e42db reader.greatnowhere.com 00066c73$0$2718$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com RPudnaQ3G4JS3fLWnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d giganews.com 4bbd743f$0$24367$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com VN2dnfBKaM0xsCPWnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d earthlink.com 4c43ddb6$0$14495$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com JtidnQodT5HJKNnRnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d earthlink.com 4c44e0c2$0$32543$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com ipidnWD2kP3Lu9vRnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d earthlink.com WJOdnXedaZV4o9vRnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d giganews.com Reply-To: "Kyla =^..^=" klya yooHOO.not X-Trace: individual.net ga0UDwYO3Zm/acQehN2snwF4YGLkuV1TGOggMxw4mKnNTBL4aU Cancel-Lock: sha1:552S3M+Dej4zq+V99IGqTms6PSQ= X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response |
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Declawing
"cshenk" wrote:
"Kyla =^..^=" wrote "cshenk" "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote John Doe wrote: John Doe almost looks like a spammer to me but hard to tell. I agree Hard to tell. Technically speaking... Trying to tell whether anyone is a spammer is impossible unless you are their ISP. You cannot tell by a particular identification, you know, people can use multiple IDs. But why on earth (really comical to me) would you think that I am a spammer? Talk about lamebrain observations... And what the **** does a dog's tail have to do with a cat's claws? Nice words Joe :/ He's not relating a potential medical need with a 'gee it would be nice it they cant scratch the couch'. I guess my meaning is not obvious, but it really should be IMO. You run into people who do not know their ass from a hole in the ground on the Internet. I am not talking about your needs, I am talking about the animal. A cat uses its claws for practically everything. A dog uses its tail for wagging. So what the **** does clipping a dog's tail have to do with removing a cat's claws? |
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Declawing
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" evgmsop earthlink.net wrote:
John Doe wrote: "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" evgmsop earthlink.net wrote: John Doe wrote: Cats use their claws for practically everything they do, not just for self-defense. Cats use their claws for hunting, playing, exercise, soft defense, and for getting from here to there. She still has TOES, after all - The idea that a cat's toes are comparable to a cat's claws is just silly. they only amputate the first joint in the declawing process. People might not be very happy to lose the first joints of their fingers, either, but as amputees, they'd adjust - their hands and the remains of the fingers (including the opposable thumb) would still be there. There is no comparison between a cat's claw and an individual joint of a human finger. Why not? Cats do not use their joints to hang on to anything, they use their claws. Cats use their claws unlike anything we use our individual joints for. Removing a cat's claw is is not at all like removing just the first joint of a human finger, it is like removing the entire finger. A gymnast cannot grab onto a crossbar with the first joint of his finger, he has to use the whole finger. A cat cannot grab onto a tree (or an enemy, or prey, or a ball, or a climbing post) without claws. Declawing a cat involves just that amputation? Yes, Moron, but I am talking about the effect. I don't believe in docking dogs' tails, either, but even tail-less they manage to "wag". And what the **** does a dog's tail have to do with a cat's claws? It's an integral part of the dog's anatomy, and equally necessary to it's total well-being. (Idiot!) Says a Moron who does not know the difference in function and importance between a cat's claws and a dog's tail. -- Path: news.astraweb.com!border5.newsrouter.astraweb.com! news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!Xl.tags.giganews.co m!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com! local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.earthlink.com!ne ws.earthlink.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:42:28 -0500 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:42:12 -0700 From: "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" evgmsop earthlink.net Reply-To: evgmsop earthlink.net User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec.pets.cats.health+behav ,free.usenet Subject: Declawing References: 4b553702$0$2428$834e42db reader.greatnowhere.com 00066c73$0$2718$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com RPudnaQ3G4JS3fLWnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d giganews.com 4bbd743f$0$24367$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com VN2dnfBKaM0xsCPWnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d earthlink.com 4c43ddb6$0$14495$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com JtidnQodT5HJKNnRnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d earthlink.com 4c44e0c2$0$32543$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com In-Reply-To: 4c44e0c2$0$32543$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: ipidnWD2kP3Lu9vRnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d earthlink.com Lines: 64 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.240.12.205 X-Trace: sv3-1ZjrnNC8CNg66c0H1Y4O4F4TxqOJwuE6vnOpGD1UaOTGPp4FvL +HzylwGuzs2c1ativawafDiXG7ABH!GjEwgP3n8ktPyyvLEyXt peyPdYO0XslPJo5V4nE85QsOQEPLxa1hDDeL/TLF15TKtGhhD6NJrvFE!RyI7Mmc80NyC X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 |
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