URGENT TO GINGER-LYN

cat nipped,

this is a general pattern I have seen with this poster and is why I have
blocked this individual, ginger made her decision, and all you did was offer
your experience, that is enough, Lee
CatNipped wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Apr 16, 1:48 pm, "CatNipped" wrote:

Hematoma's can elicit much more pain than that of a bruise and while
your cat may have been okay, many are not. My cat was a perfect
example and would cry even when his ear was lightly touched. It's not
right to minimize what can be a very painful condition.

================================================== =====

Of course it hurts to touch a bruise or blood blister (hematoma) why
would
you think it would not??! That is not to say that an *untouched* bruise
or
hematoma is unbearably painful. I agree there might be a situation where
surgery is mandated, but I also feel you should weigh all your options
before subjecting an animal (or a person) to the risks of anesthesia or
the
possible risks to the surgery itself.


If you read Ginger-Lyn's original post, she said that the vet said
that if they drained it it would just fill up again and that surgery
was the only option. For that to be the case, it was probably very
similar to my cat's hematoma and I would venture a guess to say that
it was pretty large.

================================================== =======

My vet also told me if they drained it it would just fill up again.
However
he also told me that surgery was *NOT* the only option that leaving it
alone
to go away on its own was an option (and in his opionion, since that would
not involve the risks of anesthesia, the surgery itself, or infection from
breaching the skin, the *BEST* option).

I don't think either of us know the size of the hematoma or if that plays
a
part in the decision of how to treat it.

================================================== =======




More to the point, Ginger-lyn is in such *dire* financial straits now
that
I
think the vet not giving her the same information my vet gave me is
really
unethical.

I don't think you're being fair to the vet, or to Ginger-Lyn for that
matter. From what I've read, her vet is very aware of her situation
and I've never seen her complain about her vet or their
recommendations. Since you didn't see the hematoma or witness the
exam, it is unreasonable to make a judgement as to what treatment
Ginger-Lyn's cat actually needed. I have no doubt Ginger-Lyn would
have asked the vet if there was anything they could do that was non-
surgical and I think she is also smart enough to know when her cat
really needs a necessary treatment. I give her props for getting this
taken care of, even though it was difficult for her financially.
That's the sign of a responsible, caring cat slave.

================================================== =====

I would say that neither of us is there to judge the severity of the
situation, but it didn't appear to me that her vet had given her the
same
information mine gave me.

Again, they said they could drain it but it would just fill up again
and that surgery was the only option. It's clear they gave her the
alternative to surgery and also gave her the likely outcome to that
alternative.

================================================== =======

Again, so did my vet say it would fill up again which is why he definitely
would *NOT* recommend that option - however he gave me another alternative
to surgery which, it appears, Ginger-lyn's vet did not give her. I don't
know how to make it any clearer that I was only trying to give Ginger-lyn
information that her vet had obviously not given her. Not all vets are
conservative, not all vets are ethical. I have no idea what Ginger-lin's
vet may be like, but I question him not giving her all the options open to
her. Saying that surgery was the only option is clearly wrong since I
chose
another option that worked out perfectly well in the end without the pain
of
an incision and stitches, without the risks associated with surgery and
without any drain on my already drained pocketbook.

================================================== ========


I'm sorry you find fault in my attempt to get information to her that
may
have given her some questions to ask her vet,

I did not find fault with what you did, and I never said I did. If you
look at my reply to you I simply pointed out that hematomas can be a
lot more serious than what you dealt with and that surgery is usually
warranted. Hematoma's aren't usually that easy to deal with. That was
all.

================================================== ========

To say that surgery is usually warranted is wrong. Have you ever had a
blood blister in your life? Did your doctor feel the need to operate to
heal it? My vet told me that surgery was not the only option that in fact
it was not the best option.

================================================== ========

but please don't imply that I
am *not* a responsible, caring cat slave because my vet gave me
different
information to use in my decision making and I chose the more
conservative
approach. Choosing *NOT* to spend money one doesn't have when it is
*NOT*
necessary is not being irresponsible or uncaring.

================================================== =======

I never implied anything with regards to you. I said Ginger-Lyn was
doing a great thing to get her kitty taken care of even though the
finances are compromised. It was a compliment to her. If you want to
get defensive about that and twist it to make it about *you* (which it
wasn't) then I think you need to look within yourself rather than
accuse me of doing something I did not do.

================================================== =======

There was a reason I used the work "imply" rather than "state" - do you
need
the definition of either word? What Ginger-lyn did might not have been
"great", it may have been an uninformed (by her vet), misguided (by her
vet), wrong decision had something gone wrong during surgery.

It doesn't appear that you are being convinced by anything I have to say
and
I'm certain that you are wrong in what you are saying, so lets just agree
to
disagree before this gets out of hand.

Hugs,

CatNipped

"Stormmee" wrote in message
...
cat nipped,

this is a general pattern I have seen with this poster and is why I have
blocked this individual, ginger made her decision, and all you did was
offer
your experience, that is enough, Lee

Ah, I was beginning to wonder. Thanks for the heads up.

Hugs,

CatNipped

I hate blocking people, but it is not in my tolerance level when someone is
always right, I mean we all have experience, different cats, different vets,
different issues, money, lifestyle and so on, but when one thinks they are
always right, or always anything for that matter, THEY need to look inside
themselves and see about that issue, Lee, not feeling very tolerant of
anything today
CatNipped wrote in message
...
"Stormmee" wrote in message
...
cat nipped,

this is a general pattern I have seen with this poster and is why I have
blocked this individual, ginger made her decision, and all you did was
offer
your experience, that is enough, Lee

Ah, I was beginning to wonder. Thanks for the heads up.

Hugs,

CatNipped

On Apr 16, 2:29*pm, "CatNipped" wrote:
My vet also told me if they drained it it would just fill up again. *However
he also told me that surgery was *NOT* the only option that leaving it alone
to go away on its own was an option (and in his opionion, since that would
not involve the risks of anesthesia, the surgery itself, or infection from
breaching the skin, the *BEST* option).

I don't think either of us know the size of the hematoma or if that plays a
part in the decision of how to treat it.

Exactly. That's why I said I guessed, as this is what we see in the
clinic and I experienced myself. Again, you did not witness the
conversation between Ginger-Lyn and her vet, yet you are stating that
the vet did not give her all the options. You can't possibly know
that, or even what the options were in consideration of that
particular injury, and are even stating that the vet is unethical. All
this based on next to no information.





More to the point, Ginger-lyn is in such *dire* financial straits now
that
I
think the vet not giving her the same information my vet gave me is
really
unethical.

I don't think you're being fair to the vet, or to Ginger-Lyn for that
matter. From what I've read, her vet is very aware of her situation
and I've never seen her complain about her vet or their
recommendations. Since you didn't see the hematoma or witness the
exam, it is unreasonable to make a judgement as to what treatment
Ginger-Lyn's cat actually needed. I have no doubt Ginger-Lyn would
have asked the vet if there was anything they could do that was non-
surgical and I think she is also smart enough to know when her cat
really needs a necessary treatment. I give her props for getting this
taken care of, even though it was difficult for her financially.
That's the sign of a responsible, caring cat slave.

================================================== =====

I would say that neither of us is there to judge the severity of the
situation, but it didn't appear to me that her vet had given her the same
information mine gave me.

Again, they said they could drain it but it would just fill up again
and that surgery was the only option. It's clear they gave her the
alternative to surgery and also gave her the likely outcome to that
alternative.

================================================== =======

Again, so did my vet say it would fill up again which is why he definitely
would *NOT* recommend that option - however he gave me another alternative
to surgery which, it appears, Ginger-lyn's vet did not give her. *

Again, she clearly stated that the vet examined Cosmo and said surgery
was the "only" option. There was obviously a reason for that, but
since neither you or I were there all we can do is speculate. I
speculated based on what I have seen come through the clinic and my
own cat's hematoma. What I take issue with is your drive to badmouth
this vet and make it sound like they are cheating Ginger-Lyn without
ANY evidence of this being the case.

I don't
know how to make it any clearer that I was only trying to give Ginger-lyn
information that her vet had obviously not given her. *Not all vets are
conservative, not all vets are ethical. *I have no idea what Ginger-lin's
vet may be like, but I question him not giving her all the options open to
her. *

You don't know what was discussed so you can't possibly make a
statement saying what was discussed.

Saying that surgery was the only option is clearly wrong

YOU DON"T KNOW THIS. You weren't there, you are not a vet, you did not
see the injury and as such cannot honestly come to this conclusion.


To say that surgery is usually warranted is wrong. *Have you ever had a
blood blister in your life? *

I suggest you do some research. A hematoma on an animal's ear is not
the same as a blood blister on a human.

Did your doctor feel the need to operate to
heal it? *My vet told me that surgery was not the only option that in fact
it was not the best option.

In *your* case.

I never implied anything with regards to you. I said Ginger-Lyn was
doing a great thing to get her kitty taken care of *even though the
finances are compromised. It was a compliment to her. *If you want to
get defensive about that and twist it to make it about *you* (which it
wasn't) then I think you need to look within yourself rather than
accuse me of doing something I did not do.

================================================== =======

There was a reason I used the work "imply" rather than "state" - do you need
the definition of either word? *

No. To imply is to express or state indirectly. I did no such thing.
Again, I gave Ginger-Lyn a compliment and nothing more. I understand
her situation very well as I have been there myself several times, but
where there is a will there is a way and kudos to her for finding a
way. Too many times we see people come through the clinic that *have*
the money to spend, but they are too cheap to do what's needed and the
animals are the ones that ultimately pay the price. And there's
nothing we can do about it. So when I see someone go to the wire for
their animal you bet your ass I'm going to let them know that there
are some people out there that appreciate what they've done.
If you want to twist it to make it about you maybe it's because you're
feeling guilty about not spending money when maybe you should have. I
don't know. But what I do know is that it wasn't about "you* nor was
it implied. Period.

What Ginger-lyn did might not have been
"great", it may have been an uninformed (by her vet), misguided (by her
vet), wrong decision had something gone wrong during surgery.

Do you realize how insulting this statement is to Ginger-Lyn? You make
it sound as though she is stupid and gullible. I have a little more
faith in her capabilities than you do apparently.You also make it
sound as though her vet is an unethical charlatan when you have
nothing absolutely to base this on.

It doesn't appear that you are being convinced by anything I have to say and
I'm certain that you are wrong in what you are saying, so lets just agree to
disagree before this gets out of hand.

You have offered nothing other than speculation and libeling of the
vet with no facts to base it on.

"Stormmee" wrote in
:

I hate blocking people, but it is not in my tolerance level when
someone is always right, I mean we all have experience, different
cats, different vets, different issues, money, lifestyle and so on,
but when one thinks they are always right, or always anything for that


Please do not block Lori, I am sure in time she will realize she should not
have called GLs vet unethical. She is just having a busy time right now.

"outsider" wrote in message
...
"Stormmee" wrote in
:

I hate blocking people, but it is not in my tolerance level when
someone is always right, I mean we all have experience, different
cats, different vets, different issues, money, lifestyle and so on,
but when one thinks they are always right, or always anything for that


Please do not block Lori, I am sure in time she will realize she should
not
have called GLs vet unethical. She is just having a busy time right now.


LOL! Sometimes UseNet reminds me of that game where kids line up and the
first one whispers something in the ear of the next and by the time it gets
to the end it turns into something entirely different.

JFTR I didn't call Ginger-lyn's vet unethical and I apologize if it came
out that way. I *DO* think it was wrong *IF* GL's vet did not mention to
her the "do nothing" option.

Hugs,

CatNipped

On Apr 16, 4:47*pm, "CatNipped" wrote:

JFTR *I didn't call Ginger-lyn's vet unethical

Well, yes you did and you did so without having any knowledge of the
actual conversation:

"More to the point, Ginger-lyn is in such *dire* financial straits now
that I
think the vet not giving her the same information my vet gave me is
really
unethical."

On Apr 16, 5:14*pm, "Matthew" wrote:
"CatNipped" wrote in message

... "Stormmee" wrote in message
...
cat nipped,

this is a general pattern I have seen with this poster and is why I have
blocked this individual, ginger made her decision, and all you did was
offer
your experience, that is enough, Lee

Ah, I was beginning to wonder. *Thanks for the heads up.

Hugs,

CatNipped

This was the same poster that last week told me I was endangering my Rumble
life because my vet did not know how to use proper nutrition to control his
diabetes since the vet has him on wet and dry food *but yet his sugar level
is normal as is his blood work. *


Matthew, I said that your cat was in danger of coming out of remission
if he is eating high carb food. This is not my opinion. It's a fact.
It happens all the time to diabetic cats that go back to eating dry
food. The carbs are harmful. They put stress an an already compromised
pancreas. Period. Have you ever tested your cat's blood sugar after 24
hours of being fed only low-carb canned food, then fed your diabetic a
dry meal and then tested his blood sugar again? If you actually did
this I can assure you you would be unpleasantly surprised. Why do you
think cats go into remission when dry food is eliminated from the
diet? The stress of unnecessary carbs and the glucose toxicity that is
a result of the dry food diet is removed from the equation. That's
why.

Now, if you want to stop being childish and feel something I have said
in this discussion is inaccurate and would like to discuss it or
present a different take, by all means be my guest. But if you want to
join in libeling Ginger-Lyn's vet or implying she is stupid or
incapable of making thoughful decisions with regards to the
appropriate care of Cosmo then I will take issue with that. Instead of
making this your own personal vendetta, why not just stick to the
issue at hand.

"CatNipped" wrote in
:

"outsider" wrote in message
...
"Stormmee" wrote in
:

I hate blocking people, but it is not in my tolerance level when
someone is always right, I mean we all have experience, different
cats, different vets, different issues, money, lifestyle and so on,
but when one thinks they are always right, or always anything for
that


Please do not block Lori, I am sure in time she will realize she
should not
have called GLs vet unethical. She is just having a busy time right
now.


LOL! Sometimes UseNet reminds me of that game where kids line up and
the first one whispers something in the ear of the next and by the
time it gets to the end it turns into something entirely different.

We called it Telephone.


JFTR I didn't call Ginger-lyn's vet unethical and I apologize if it
came out that way. I *DO* think it was wrong *IF* GL's vet did not
mention to her the "do nothing" option.



Actually I suspect the vet discussed the options but when people relay a
conversation they tend to abridge it to the end result but, of course,
you know I was just being a trouble-maker anyway. What can I say? It's
a gift!

Andy

wrote in news:13dc7393-eb8b-41e1-a9be-
:

On Apr 16, 4:47*pm, "CatNipped" wrote:

JFTR *I didn't call Ginger-lyn's vet unethical

Well, yes you did and you did so without having any knowledge of the
actual conversation:

"More to the point, Ginger-lyn is in such *dire* financial straits now
that I
think the vet not giving her the same information my vet gave me is
really
unethical."




Over time you will notice that Lori is a deeply emotional (read caring)
person and because of that she sometimes speaks in moral certainties that
strictly speaking may not be perfectly articulated. I _like_ that about
her. You on the other had like to speak with technical accuracy (to a
degree which may not be 100% appropriate for this type of group). I like
_that_ about you (even if you ruffle feathers) but clearly you and Lori
(and some others) will always be somewhat incompatible. Hopefully all of
use can look past those strange differences we have and see the cat
lovers we all are.



I now return to my regularly scheduled cynicism.