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#11
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Crass?
Christina Websell wrote:
"Sherry" wrote in message ... Out of respect for KFC, I've started another thread--my comment has little to do with the intended topic so I have re-pasted the post into a new thread. Helen wrote: FWIW, I didn't read Pat's comment that way - although I can understand why you can be a bit wary at the moment due to some of the crass comments from some on a.n.other thread about looking after KFC. I read Pat's comment as hoping KFC has a lot of good life in her yet, not as an adverse reflection on the care you give her. I didn't read Pat's post as a criticism of the quality of care, either. As for MaryL (which I'm fairly sure is the one you're talking about)...making "crass" remarks: I didn't see any of that, either. "Crass" by definition would refer to a remark that was crude, unrefined, and totally lacking in discrimination or sensibility. What I saw was MaryL taking the time to post a suggestion based on what she knew; what she had seen possibly save the life of a cat. When her post wasn't received well, what *I* saw, was her apologizing all over herself. That is not crass. FWIW, I don't think Helen was referring to MaryL at all. I certainly didn't think her posts were "crass" It did upset me a bit to be called "anti-American" though. Is that how you all perceive me? Tweed Not in the least. Sam, supervised by Mistletoe |
#12
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Crass?
"Christina Websell" wrote in message
... FWIW, I don't think Helen was referring to MaryL at all. I certainly didn't think her posts were "crass" It did upset me a bit to be called "anti-American" though. Is that how you all perceive me? Tweed Tweed, there are times when you are very blunt (not a bad thing), and I've taken umbrage at something you've said about America. While I don't think of you as "anti-American" at all, I do sometimes think you have a somewhat distorted view of us (and to give due credit, I think a lot of *Americans* are to fault for that). The times I've taken umbrage, I've tried to get you to see that, America being as large and varied as it is, it is often a mistake to generalize about us (e.g. saying that all Americans are barbaric because *some* Americans have their cats declawed). That being said, I would not have as a friend anyone who is "anti-American" - and I count you as a dear friend even though we may have "words" now and again. Going back to the "crass" remark, I was thinking it was about the person who tried to gainsay your vet's advice and proceeded to outline what you should do with your cat (as if you and your vet were too feeble-minded to do the right thing for her). It amazes me when someone thinks they can diagnose a cat they've never seen, from another country, and going only by what a worried cat-mom says on UseNet. Um, sure, they know more than that person's vet who has taken care of that cat for years but who must be incompetent since their diagnosis or advice differs. BUT, I will say this about most, if not all Americans. We are a "can do" society who pretty much boot-strapped ourselves to where we are today. Part of that national ethos is that we always try to find a solution, even to those problems that don't have one. Very often that comes across to other countries' people as being nosy, pushy and know-it-all when, in reality, all it is is an attempt to help set things right - advice given in all sincerity and earnestness even when it's not necessarily welcomed. Hugs, CatNipped |
#13
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Crass?
"Christina Websell" wrote in message ... "Sherry" wrote in message ... Out of respect for KFC, I've started another thread--my comment has little to do with the intended topic so I have re-pasted the post into a new thread. Helen wrote: FWIW, I didn't read Pat's comment that way - although I can understand why you can be a bit wary at the moment due to some of the crass comments from some on a.n.other thread about looking after KFC. I read Pat's comment as hoping KFC has a lot of good life in her yet, not as an adverse reflection on the care you give her. I didn't read Pat's post as a criticism of the quality of care, either. As for MaryL (which I'm fairly sure is the one you're talking about)...making "crass" remarks: I didn't see any of that, either. "Crass" by definition would refer to a remark that was crude, unrefined, and totally lacking in discrimination or sensibility. What I saw was MaryL taking the time to post a suggestion based on what she knew; what she had seen possibly save the life of a cat. When her post wasn't received well, what *I* saw, was her apologizing all over herself. That is not crass. FWIW, I don't think Helen was referring to MaryL at all. I certainly didn't think her posts were "crass" It did upset me a bit to be called "anti-American" though. Is that how you all perceive me? Tweed What CatNipped said helps to explain part of what was in my own thought process. For example, you have said that Americans care more about their furniture than about their cats. That is painting us with a pretty broad brush. Unfortunately, there *are* people in this country who declaw their cats -- a truly barbariac practic, in my opinion -- but there are far more who do not. We have cases of animal cruelty, but we also have many people who truly love their animals and will do everything within their power to take good care of their pets. You even talked about how Americans don't know anything about other nations but seemed to feel that Europeans do know a great deal about us. In reality, there are so many cultural differences that people on *both* sides probably make assumptions that should not be made. My roommate in college was a Fulbright Scholar from Germany. I remember her making a disparaging remark about Britain, and I challenged her on it because I just don't think that anyone should try to place an entire society in one kettle. Incidentally, she is a *very good friend,* so my "challenge" was really a discussion. The current discussions in this NG are rather ironic because I have always had great admiration and respect for the British (if I can now break my own rule -- but this does not mean that I think everyone in England acts alike any more than I would accept statements about all Americans act alike). My ancestors came from England, and one of my emphases in college was on the British political system. So, I really regret bringing this up in a thread about KFC, but that may help to explain what was on my mind. I certainly was not "flaunting" anything when I suggested fluids. I was operating on what I have done in the past for my own cats, and I was not aware that you would not be able to do the same. MaryL |
#14
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Crass?
"CatNipped" wrote in message ... "Christina Websell" wrote in message ... FWIW, I don't think Helen was referring to MaryL at all. I certainly didn't think her posts were "crass" It did upset me a bit to be called "anti-American" though. Is that how you all perceive me? Tweed Tweed, there are times when you are very blunt (not a bad thing), and I've taken umbrage at something you've said about America. While I don't think of you as "anti-American" at all, I do sometimes think you have a somewhat distorted view of us (and to give due credit, I think a lot of *Americans* are to fault for that). The times I've taken umbrage, I've tried to get you to see that, America being as large and varied as it is, it is often a mistake to generalize about us (e.g. saying that all Americans are barbaric because *some* Americans have their cats declawed). That being said, I would not have as a friend anyone who is "anti-American" - and I count you as a dear friend even though we may have "words" now and again. Ah I knew you would say that, Lori! I don't remember saying that *all* Americans were barbaric, though, only that as a first world country etc etc.. No doubt we will disagree again but I count you are a dear friend too. Going back to the "crass" remark, I was thinking it was about the person who tried to gainsay your vet's advice and proceeded to outline what you should do with your cat (as if you and your vet were too feeble-minded to do the right thing for her). It amazes me when someone thinks they can diagnose a cat they've never seen, from another country, and going only by what a worried cat-mom says on UseNet. Um, sure, they know more than that person's vet who has taken care of that cat for years but who must be incompetent since their diagnosis or advice differs. BUT, I will say this about most, if not all Americans. We are a "can do" society who pretty much boot-strapped ourselves to where we are today. Part of that national ethos is that we always try to find a solution, even to those problems that don't have one. Very often that comes across to other countries' people as being nosy, pushy and know-it-all when, in reality, all it is is an attempt to help set things right - advice given in all sincerity and earnestness even when it's not necessarily welcomed. I know that. I do appreciate and welcome advice, but often what is possible in America isn't here. When I try and explain it doesn't seem to be an option, then I mean it really isn't here in Britain. I am not going to drive KFC all over England to find a vet that will agree to give her more fluids. For what purpose? To keep her going along for 6 weeks until she needs them again? If my vet says don't do it, don't spend another $500 like you just did for her fluids, I guess I have to accept it. She is being kept very comfortable with fantastic food, nice beds, any meds she needs, but no radical intervention. I have chosen that for her. If I ever get as old as she is in human years and with her health difficulties I hope someone is there to make the same decision for me. She's as bright as a button at the moment. Tweed |
#15
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Crass?
"Christina Websell" wrote in message
... "CatNipped" wrote in message ... "Christina Websell" wrote in message ... FWIW, I don't think Helen was referring to MaryL at all. I certainly didn't think her posts were "crass" It did upset me a bit to be called "anti-American" though. Is that how you all perceive me? Tweed Tweed, there are times when you are very blunt (not a bad thing), and I've taken umbrage at something you've said about America. While I don't think of you as "anti-American" at all, I do sometimes think you have a somewhat distorted view of us (and to give due credit, I think a lot of *Americans* are to fault for that). The times I've taken umbrage, I've tried to get you to see that, America being as large and varied as it is, it is often a mistake to generalize about us (e.g. saying that all Americans are barbaric because *some* Americans have their cats declawed). That being said, I would not have as a friend anyone who is "anti-American" - and I count you as a dear friend even though we may have "words" now and again. Ah I knew you would say that, Lori! I don't remember saying that *all* Americans were barbaric, though, only that as a first world country etc etc.. No doubt we will disagree again but I count you are a dear friend too. Going back to the "crass" remark, I was thinking it was about the person who tried to gainsay your vet's advice and proceeded to outline what you should do with your cat (as if you and your vet were too feeble-minded to do the right thing for her). It amazes me when someone thinks they can diagnose a cat they've never seen, from another country, and going only by what a worried cat-mom says on UseNet. Um, sure, they know more than that person's vet who has taken care of that cat for years but who must be incompetent since their diagnosis or advice differs. BUT, I will say this about most, if not all Americans. We are a "can do" society who pretty much boot-strapped ourselves to where we are today. Part of that national ethos is that we always try to find a solution, even to those problems that don't have one. Very often that comes across to other countries' people as being nosy, pushy and know-it-all when, in reality, all it is is an attempt to help set things right - advice given in all sincerity and earnestness even when it's not necessarily welcomed. I know that. I do appreciate and welcome advice, but often what is possible in America isn't here. When I try and explain it doesn't seem to be an option, then I mean it really isn't here in Britain. I am not going to drive KFC all over England to find a vet that will agree to give her more fluids. For what purpose? To keep her going along for 6 weeks until she needs them again? If my vet says don't do it, don't spend another $500 like you just did for her fluids, I guess I have to accept it. She is being kept very comfortable with fantastic food, nice beds, any meds she needs, but no radical intervention. I have chosen that for her. If I ever get as old as she is in human years and with her health difficulties I hope someone is there to make the same decision for me. She's as bright as a button at the moment. Tweed I have ABSOLUTELY not doubts that you will do what is best for KFC. As much as we all here love her and would like to see her with us for years to come, there really is nobody else on earth who loves her as much as you do and only you have the right to make decisions about her treatment. You have done and will do everything possible to make her life (and its passing) the best possible - anybody who says differently will have me to contend with. We're still purring for everything to come out well for the both of you. Hugs, CatNipped |
#16
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Crass?
CatNipped wrote:
BUT, I will say this about most, if not all Americans. We are a "can do" society who pretty much boot-strapped ourselves to where we are today. Yep, and that expectation has strangled many a person who is unable to succeed at "bootstrapping". The downside to "can-do" is if you happen to be someone who "can't", than you're at fault. Take, for example, the state of being poor. Much is made in this country about the "self-made man", who brought himself up from the bottom and is now wealthy and successful. He might get a lot of publicity, but in reality, there are very, very, very *few* such people. Most people do the best they can, but in a society that doesn't do very much to offer help to people in need (since, after all, we're all supposed succeed on our own), they often don't get far. And then they're blamed for being unsuccessful. Feh! -- Joyce - one of the many diverse Americans with diverse opinions To email me, remove the triple-X from my user name. ^..^ |
#17
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Crass?
There are certain folks who tend to lurk in this NG who occasionally post
when a cat & slave are in a difficult situation. My opinion of said folk is that they know alot about cats, but don't know a heck of alot about human beings. By all means read what they have to say - they do know about cats, but don't feel guilty (and don't let them make you feel guilty) that the path you choose for you & those in your care is different from theirs. They aren't God and have no right to judge you & your life. I have faith that everyone here will make decisions that they think are the best path through complicated and conflicting priorities. I may not have made the same decisions, but I can't imagine anyone here not taking 'the best interests of the cat, given the circumstances' into account when they make the hard decisions. Yowie |
#18
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Crass?
"Yowie" wrote in message ... There are certain folks who tend to lurk in this NG who occasionally post when a cat & slave are in a difficult situation. My opinion of said folk is that they know alot about cats, but don't know a heck of alot about human beings. By all means read what they have to say - they do know about cats, but don't feel guilty (and don't let them make you feel guilty) that the path you choose for you & those in your care is different from theirs. They aren't God and have no right to judge you & your life. I have faith that everyone here will make decisions that they think are the best path through complicated and conflicting priorities. I may not have made the same decisions, but I can't imagine anyone here not taking 'the best interests of the cat, given the circumstances' into account when they make the hard decisions. I've made my decision. As much as am prepared to spend big money for veterinary treatment for KFC, if my vet says it's pointless, as much as don't want to hear it, I know he is right. She is twenty--mumble- years old, she has multiple health problems. I will take care of her as long as she lives but I will not subject her any longer to more veterinary tests. We've done that, we know what's wrong. It's not anything that can be done about. Tweed |
#19
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Crass?
Christina Websell wrote:
"Yowie" wrote in message ... There are certain folks who tend to lurk in this NG who occasionally post when a cat & slave are in a difficult situation. My opinion of said folk is that they know alot about cats, but don't know a heck of alot about human beings. By all means read what they have to say - they do know about cats, but don't feel guilty (and don't let them make you feel guilty) that the path you choose for you & those in your care is different from theirs. They aren't God and have no right to judge you & your life. I have faith that everyone here will make decisions that they think are the best path through complicated and conflicting priorities. I may not have made the same decisions, but I can't imagine anyone here not taking 'the best interests of the cat, given the circumstances' into account when they make the hard decisions. I've made my decision. As much as am prepared to spend big money for veterinary treatment for KFC, if my vet says it's pointless, as much as don't want to hear it, I know he is right. She is twenty--mumble- years old, she has multiple health problems. I will take care of her as long as she lives but I will not subject her any longer to more veterinary tests. We've done that, we know what's wrong. It's not anything that can be done about. I know, hon, its so sad. Given your circumstances, I'd do the same thing myself. You are the person who knows KFC the best, and you alone knows what is best for her (even whilst wishing it were otherwise). I'm really sorry if anyone has made you doubt yourself on this, it just makes such decisions that much harder. {{{{{Christina}}}}} |
#20
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Crass?
Christina Websell wrote:
FWIW, I don't think Helen was referring to MaryL at all. I certainly didn't think her posts were "crass" It did upset me a bit to be called "anti-American" though. Is that how you all perceive me? Oh HELL no! I've never inferred anything anti-American, anywhere from you. I don't blame you for wanting to pull your hair out at what may have been certain comments suggesting that we can do things in the US that a person in the UK can not do. "Well, we can do this" is counterproductive to the problem at hand: giving much-needed support to someone faced with medical and ethical dilemmas surrounding the care of a loved one. And I don't think that anyone was being smug about the differences in laws in the US versus the UK, either; we all just needed to get back to the business at hand, which is your situation. You just needed to vent, and who doesn't every now and again? It's not anti-American to just let it all hang out, spit and hiss a bit and get it out of your system! Blessed be, Baha -- Message posted via CatKB.com http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...dotes/200807/1 |
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