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#1
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Strange Eosinophilic Granuloma Complex ...
I recently mentioned that my asthmatic cat who has EGC had not had a Depo
Medrol shot since last July, and that she had not so much as coughed since then. (She is on no other medications; the Depo appears to keep both her asthma and her ESG controlled.) This morning she had a full blown asthma attack--usually I have a warning that one is coming, in that I can hear her congestion when she purrs, and she coughs once or twice. Another sign I look for that she needs a Depo shot is when the bumps that are the hallmark of the linear granuloma type of EGC show up on her back legs. No bumps this time, either. We just got home from the vet, and this time her EGC is presenting as the "rodent ulcer" lip lesion. It is not an open lesion yet, just a swelling on her lower lip. What a weird complex it is. I thought once she was diagnosed with linear granuloma (bumps in lines along the back of her legs) that would be the kind she always gets. Apparently not. I asked the vet if I need to schedule more frequent shots and she said I am doing it right--waiting until I hear a cough or see a sign of the EGC. But what a balancing act it is. If she gets Depo too frequently she might develop diabetes--but not enough and she might have a life threatening asthma attack. Still, I'm grateful that what she has is treatable. |
#2
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On 2005-03-21, Mary penned:
I recently mentioned that my asthmatic cat who has EGC had not had a Depo Medrol shot since last July, and that she had not so much as coughed since then. (She is on no other medications; the Depo appears to keep both her asthma and her ESG controlled.) This morning she had a full blown asthma attack--usually I have a warning that one is coming, in that I can hear her congestion when she purrs, and she coughs once or twice. Another sign I look for that she needs a Depo shot is when the bumps that are the hallmark of the linear granuloma type of EGC show up on her back legs. No bumps this time, either. We just got home from the vet, and this time her EGC is presenting as the "rodent ulcer" lip lesion. It is not an open lesion yet, just a swelling on her lower lip. What a weird complex it is. I thought once she was diagnosed with linear granuloma (bumps in lines along the back of her legs) that would be the kind she always gets. Apparently not. I asked the vet if I need to schedule more frequent shots and she said I am doing it right--waiting until I hear a cough or see a sign of the EGC. But what a balancing act it is. If she gets Depo too frequently she might develop diabetes--but not enough and she might have a life threatening asthma attack. Still, I'm grateful that Did her lip lesion bother her at all? I freaked when I saw the big pink bump on Oscar's lip a few months ago, but she never seemed to notice it. If it doesn't bother her, getting more frequent shots wouldn't seem (to me) to make sense. Does the asthma always happen concurrently with the EGC? -- monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca |
#3
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"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message ... Did her lip lesion bother her at all? No, not at all. I noticed it first two nights ago when she was looking at me and there was something shiny that did not belong--it was the swollen lip showing. I have watched her ever since, and she grooms up a storm and enjoys her food as much as ever. I freaked when I saw the big pink bump on Oscar's lip a few months ago, but she never seemed to notice it. Does Oscar have EGC? How did I miss that? If it doesn't bother her, getting more frequent shots wouldn't seem (to me) to make sense. Does the asthma always happen concurrently with the EGC? Yes it does. The EGC always presents its first signs at about the time she first coughs. Weird, isn't it? In a way it makes sense because both asthma and EGC are related to and triggered by allergies, although they do not understand exactly how. Stupidly, I had her favorite screened window open all night, so she could sit there and listen to the night birds and bugs. Everything is budding. Since she almost always gets congested in March then in July, I imagine she has plant allergies. However: when I was wearing perfume regularly and using different cleaning products, and before she began eating canned food, she was having attacks every 2 months or so. So I guess she is just allergic to the world. I am only allergic to dust, mold, and cats, thank god. How about Oscar? Does she have allergies? -- monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca |
#4
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On 2005-03-21, Mary penned:
"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message ... I freaked when I saw the big pink bump on Oscar's lip a few months ago, but she never seemed to notice it. Does Oscar have EGC? How did I miss that? Well, as I understand it, for some cats this can be a one-time or rare thing, whereas other lucky cats get it a lot. A few months ago, we were about to leave for a weekend trip and I noticed what I thought was Oscar's tongue sticking out a bit after a vigorous play session. When we got home, though, I saw that her lip was an angry-looking pink bump. At the same time, I got the four voicemails from my mom saying that dad was in the hospital for emergency surgery and where was I? It was a stressful Sunday. I think I posted to this NG about it .... Anyway, Oscar got two shots, about two weeks apart, and seems fine since then. No idea if it will recurr or not. How about Oscar? Does she have allergies? Not that I know of. The vet didn't seem too concerned as long as the bump doesn't come back. From what I've read, EGC is often, but not always, related to allergies. If she gets it again, then I'll start looking. I don't wear perfume or makeup, and I tend to stick to particular brands, so I don't think it's a matter of cleaning materials and such. It's possible it's related to switching her to wet wellness from dry nutro, but then again, it's also possible it's not. -- monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca |
#5
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"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message ... On 2005-03-21, Mary penned: "Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message ... I freaked when I saw the big pink bump on Oscar's lip a few months ago, but she never seemed to notice it. Does Oscar have EGC? How did I miss that? Well, as I understand it, for some cats this can be a one-time or rare thing, whereas other lucky cats get it a lot. A few months ago, we were about to leave for a weekend trip and I noticed what I thought was Oscar's tongue sticking out a bit after a vigorous play session. When we got home, though, I saw that her lip was an angry-looking pink bump. At the same time, I got the four voicemails from my mom saying that dad was in the hospital for emergency surgery and where was I? It was a stressful Sunday. I think I posted to this NG about it .... God, really. What a horrible day. Anyway, Oscar got two shots, about two weeks apart, and seems fine since then. No idea if it will recurr or not. I hope not. I had not understood that it might be a one-time thing. How about Oscar? Does she have allergies? Not that I know of. The vet didn't seem too concerned as long as the bump doesn't come back. From what I've read, EGC is often, but not always, related to allergies. If she gets it again, then I'll start looking. I don't wear perfume or makeup, and I tend to stick to particular brands, so I don't think it's a matter of cleaning materials and such. It's possible it's related to switching her to wet wellness from dry nutro, but then again, it's also possible it's not. What is really weird is, you know how they call it "rodent ulcer," supposedly out of a mistaken belief that catching rodents caused it? Well, you may recall that about two weeks ago Cheeks and Buddha caught their first mouse. Just a coincidence, of course, but a weird one. My vet actually told me to stick with Cheeky's current canned--even though it is Fancy Feast, the garbage food of canned food--just because she currently only needs 2 Depo shots a year. He said "With these cats, you just never know. Keep doing whatever you're doing." Honestly, Mo, when I looked at this little 7-lb tabby gasping for breath on the carpet this morning I had this feeling like the bottom was dropping out of my whole world. I love this cat way too much. It's such a double-edged sword--but better to feel than not to feel. She is fine now, her quirky little self. My vet is so wonderful--she snuggled Cheeky while she gave her the shot. With the sweet vet tech holding her head and saying what pretty eyes she has. (The cat's head, not the vet's!) Just what you want them to do. This is the same vet who came to our home and euthanized Gnarly when the end had come. She--and the tech--both cried with me that day. I am going to ask for her every time I make an appointment. The male vets are not nearly so pleasant. |
#6
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On 2005-03-22, Mary penned:
Anyway, Oscar got two shots, about two weeks apart, and seems fine since then. No idea if it will recurr or not. I hope not. I had not understood that it might be a one-time thing. Let's see if I can find some info again ... Hrm, I can't find exactly what I'm looking for, but here's a quote from http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/Starnes/ "The prognosis of ECG is variable. Young cats often have a better prognosis. In cats less than 1 year of age, eosinophilic granulomas may regress spontaneously over a period of 3 to 5 months. In individuals with recurring lesions without a determined underlying cause, long-term therapy typically is required to keep the lesions in remission. Since these cats may become refractory to or develop side effects from medical therapy a poorer prognosis is given." I infer from the phras "in individuals with recurring lesions" that there are individuals whose lesions (I keep mistyping that legions!) don't recur. It seems like I read somewhere, but not in that link, that a combination of the cat's age and something else set up the odds for whether or not it would probably recur. As I'm reviewing these sites, it seems to me that Oscar's lesion was much less, well, gross-looking that the pictures shown. It was just a big pink/red swell on her lower lip. Perhaps I caught it soon enough that it didn't get gross? My vet never actually did a biopsy; he gave me the choice of a biopsy or simply treating it as though it was the "indolent ulcer" (that's the term he used) he suspected. The swelling went down very quickly after the shot, so I never looked back. What is really weird is, you know how they call it "rodent ulcer," supposedly out of a mistaken belief that catching rodents caused it? Well, you may recall that about two weeks ago Cheeks and Buddha caught their first mouse. Just a coincidence, of course, but a weird one. There's always something to keep you guessing =P Honestly, Mo, when I looked at this little 7-lb tabby gasping for breath on the carpet this morning I had this feeling like the bottom was dropping out of my whole world. I love this cat way too much. Maybe not *too* much. How can you love too much, unless you let the love get in the way of the object of your love's welfare? It's such a double-edged sword--but better to feel than not to feel. She is fine now, her quirky little self. My vet is so wonderful--she snuggled Cheeky while she gave her the shot. With the sweet vet tech holding her head and saying what pretty eyes she has. (The cat's head, not the vet's!) Just what you want them to do. This is the same vet who came to our home and euthanized Gnarly when the end had come. She--and the tech--both cried with me that day. I am going to ask for her every time I make an appointment. The male vets are not nearly so pleasant. As a result of Oscar's lip, I've now met all three vets at our clinic, two female and one male. The guy is the senior vet; I gather he doesn't do many examinations anymore (I guess that means he's in surgery mostly?), but he saw Oscar about her lip for the first time. He actually brought a book into the examining room and showed me the section on "indolent ulcers," so I was able to read straight from his reference book and compare the pictures to Oscar directly. Very cool. His whole manner was very calm and reassuring. I'm glad that I've now met all three vets in a non-emergency situation; I got good vibes from all of them and would have no problems letting any of them diagnose Oscar. Too bad they're not a 24-hour clinic =/ -- monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca |
#7
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"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message ... On 2005-03-22, Mary penned: Hrm, I can't find exactly what I'm looking for, but here's a quote from http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/Starnes/ "The prognosis of ECG is variable. Young cats often have a better prognosis. In cats less than 1 year of age, eosinophilic granulomas may regress spontaneously over a period of 3 to 5 months. In individuals with recurring lesions without a determined underlying cause, long-term therapy typically is required to keep the lesions in remission. Since these cats may become refractory to or develop side effects from medical therapy a poorer prognosis is given." Cheeks was supposed to be 2 years old when I adopted her, but I think she was more like maybe a year old due to her behavior and size, but more her behavior. (She was just very kittenish.) She presented with the EGC about a year later--*that I noticed&--but the asthma appeared the first day I had her. (The woman at the shelter said "I'll take her back" and I couldn't imagine it! Clearly she did not understand that this was love at first sight!) Anyway, I wish it had been a one-time thing for her. I infer from the phras "in individuals with recurring lesions" that there are individuals whose lesions (I keep mistyping that legions!) don't recur. It seems like I read somewhere, but not in that link, that a combination of the cat's age and something else set up the odds for whether or not it would probably recur. That's certainly a reasonable assumption. There have been two occasions when I felt bumps on the back of Cheeky's legs, and now this swollen lip, so she is definitely in the recurring lesion category. (BTW, Oscar's was pink but hers is black--because her lips are black. That weirded me out when I first saw her because both Gnarly and Buddha have pink lips. It must be a gray tabby thing.) As I'm reviewing these sites, it seems to me that Oscar's lesion was much less, well, gross-looking that the pictures shown. It was just a big pink/red swell on her lower lip. Perhaps I caught it soon enough that it didn't get gross? Yep. Same with my baby--but a black swell. You caught it in time for the same reason I did--you are all up in Oscar's face, ha ha! Those "pat 'em on the head and let 'em out the back door" types do not notice things so fast. Hell, every night I take a tissue and remove her eyecorner boogies. My vet never actually did a biopsy; he gave me the choice of a biopsy or simply treating it as though it was the "indolent ulcer" (that's the term he used) he suspected. The swelling went down very quickly after the shot, so I never looked back. Man, for all their side effects, these steroids can be great. Not just Depo for the cats, but the effect my Advair has on my lungs. Truly miracle drugs, albeit to be used with care. Honestly, Mo, when I looked at this little 7-lb tabby gasping for breath on the carpet this morning I had this feeling like the bottom was dropping out of my whole world. I love this cat way too much. Maybe not *too* much. How can you love too much, unless you let the love get in the way of the object of your love's welfare? Well let's say I love her too much for my own good given the fact that her lifespan is shorter than mine. Hell, Gnarly was mean as a snake and didn't even like humans and I still nearly died when she did. As a result of Oscar's lip, I've now met all three vets at our clinic, two female and one male. The guy is the senior vet; I gather he doesn't do many examinations anymore (I guess that means he's in surgery mostly?), but he saw Oscar about her lip for the first time. He actually brought a book into the examining room and showed me the section on "indolent ulcers," so I was able to read straight from his reference book and compare the pictures to Oscar directly. Very cool. His whole manner was very calm and reassuring. I'm glad that I've now met all three vets in a non-emergency situation; I got good vibes from all of them and would have no problems letting any of them diagnose Oscar. Too bad they're not a 24-hour clinic =/ Your description of your vets inspires confidence. I'm glad you have good ones. I am going to ask for this woman vet every time from now on--she snuggled my girl while she gave her the shot, and for a long time afterward. I have noticed that she is less traumatized today than she normally would be from a vet visit. If she ever has to spend the night though, I will be on the couch in the waiting room! |
#8
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On 2005-03-22, Mary penned:
"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message ... That's certainly a reasonable assumption. There have been two occasions when I felt bumps on the back of Cheeky's legs, and now this swollen lip, so she is definitely in the recurring lesion category. (BTW, Oscar's was pink but hers is black--because her lips are black. That weirded me out when I first saw her because both Gnarly and Buddha have pink lips. It must be a gray tabby thing.) Hrmmm ... *risks life and limb to peek at Oscar's lips* I'd say they're actually dark purple. But the bump was definitely pink. I think. Now I'm second guessing myself, but I remember thinking originally that it might be her tongue sticking out, so it was definitely pink, at least at first. Maybe not *too* much. How can you love too much, unless you let the love get in the way of the object of your love's welfare? Well let's say I love her too much for my own good given the fact that her lifespan is shorter than mine. Hell, Gnarly was mean as a snake and didn't even like humans and I still nearly died when she did. *nod* This is exactly why dad didn't want us to get a dog when I was a kid. Of course, mom and I won, and dad did most of the work, and all of us were devastated when Puma finally passed away. I'm glad that I've now met all three vets in a non-emergency situation; I got good vibes from all of them and would have no problems letting any of them diagnose Oscar. Too bad they're not a 24-hour clinic =/ Your description of your vets inspires confidence. I'm glad you have good ones. I am going to ask for this woman vet every time from now on--she snuggled my girl while she gave her the shot, and for a long time afterward. I have noticed that she is less traumatized today than she normally would be from a vet visit. If she ever has to spend the night though, I will be on the couch in the waiting room! It's so important to have a vet you can believe in. Oscar's never had to stay at the vet's overnight; the only time she's ever stayed there during the day was for her spay. I hope to keep it that way! -- monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca |
#9
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"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message ... On 2005-03-22, Mary penned: "Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message ... That's certainly a reasonable assumption. There have been two occasions when I felt bumps on the back of Cheeky's legs, and now this swollen lip, so she is definitely in the recurring lesion category. (BTW, Oscar's was pink but hers is black--because her lips are black. That weirded me out when I first saw her because both Gnarly and Buddha have pink lips. It must be a gray tabby thing.) Hrmmm ... *risks life and limb to peek at Oscar's lips* Hee! I'd say they're actually dark purple. I think we need a Cat Lips thread~! But the bump was definitely pink. Hmm. could be if Cheeks had gotten large enough it might have been pink too. As it is, it shrank one day after the Depo shot. What a wonder drug. I think. Now I'm second guessing myself, but I remember thinking originally that it might be her tongue sticking out, so it was definitely pink, at least at first. Maybe not *too* much. How can you love too much, unless you let the love get in the way of the object of your love's welfare? Well let's say I love her too much for my own good given the fact that her lifespan is shorter than mine. Hell, Gnarly was mean as a snake and didn't even like humans and I still nearly died when she did. *nod* Well, at least she can't escape unless I open the door. G That way "all" I have to worry about is illness and death. This is exactly why dad didn't want us to get a dog when I was a kid. Of course, mom and I won, and dad did most of the work, and all of us were devastated when Puma finally passed away. In a way though, having this happen as a child is good training for what happens later in life when you lose other animals that you love--the human type. A harsh lesson but useful. The lesson of course is not "do not love" but "love and learn to let go when you have to." Something forever white is not therefore the whiter," as Aristotle once said. Or was it Woody Allen? G |
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