best Kitty Litter?

Be REAL careful when "making do" with an alternative as pine is actually
used to keep cats AWAY from things, the only reason a cat will go near
properly prepared cat pine litter is that it's had all of the offending (and
usually allergic to cats) pine oils removed from it.

Call around to your local pet supply places... if they don't know what
you're talking about, ask to speak to the manager or something... pine
litter has been out here for quite some time and there's no excuse for
someone not to offer an economical and ecologically safe alternative like
that.

Anyways, pine shavings used for bedding would very likely not work as they
are very different from kiln-dried, all-oils-removed pellets. Please be
careful. Email me directly if you have any questions or want to see
pictures of it, etc. Anything I can do to help, I am happy to try.



"meee" wrote in message
...
thankyou very much!! I really appreciate you going to all this trouble
wrote in message
news:E%9Jf.24722$sa3.21318@pd7tw1no...
I get Tashi's at the big pet supply store here (In Canada) called Pet
Cetera or whatever it's called. I have a friend who owns a cat in Orange,
so I've written him to ask a few questions on your behalf... I'll come
back with his reply ASAP, sorry for delay.


"meee" wrote in message
...
Hi, I was wondering if you would know where I can get pine litter in
Australia? All that seems to be available here is clay and newspaper
litters that don't work very well and the cats' don't like. Any help
would be appreciated!!

wrote in message
news:Ji9Jf.24223$sa3.14328@pd7tw1no...
Clumping clay litter that contains sodium bentonite is extremely
dangerous for your felines as when ingested during normal grooming from
the paws, it forms hard clumps in their digestive tracts which can
cause anything from pain to death. If you're using a product that fits
this description and most especially if you have a long haired cat that
gets quite a bit of litter stuck to their fur, I'd say that was a
pretty dangerous combination.

Besides the obvious health concerns with the clumping agent, these
kinds of litters have harmful silica dust that your cat and you inhale
that damages breathing surfaces permanently and is also a known
carcinogen. Several years before I educated myself on this matter, I
had a cat die from the effects of clumping litter in her system and it
was a slow and painful death that I will feel guilty about for the rest
of my life. As if all of that wasn't bad enough, clay mines are not
eco-friendly either. I really have nothing good to say about clay
litters, and most especially about clumping clay litters.

My veterinarian was NO help whatsoever with figuring out this problem,
so don't expect yours to be! Don't put yourself through the guilt or
your cat through the pain. What seems like common sense in hindsight
was something nobody figured out at the time, and so many cats are
suffering needlessly while the makers of these products count their
blood money and insist their customers are perfectly happy injuring and
killing their beloved pets with their "convenient" products.

***Alternatives***

Try pine wood pellet, corn or wheat litters. They're natural and safe
as long as the pine kind is only made from kiln-dried (natural
oils-removed) pine sawdust formed into pellets and the corn/wheat
varieties don't have any pesticide residues. (i.e. buy commercially
prepared ones, don't try to make your own.) I buy a very large bag of
it twice a year and that's it! It's $20 or $25 but that's Canadian
money too, so it should be even cheaper if you're in the States.

The shelter I got Tashi from was using a pine wood litter so I got the
same thing to ease her transition and I'm so glad I did. It's amazing.
There is NO unpleasant scent whatsoever! Not right away and not two,
three or even four weeks later. After a month I change Tashi's litter,
even though I can literally pick up her litter box and sniff it and
still detect no scent at all. By then the pellets are mostly saw dust
and that's when it's time to replace them. I do remove solid waste
right away, and a little saw dust usually sticks to that, but it's
perfectly safe to flush small amounts of saw dust. When I dump out the
litter into a big green garbage bag, I place the pan in the tub and
pour boiling water all around the sides and into it and let it sit for
a while. Then I dump the water down the toilet and dry the pan with a
paper towel. Because I'm using soft wood instead of hard silica, the
pan stays in perfect non-scratched condition so it's easy to keep it
hygienic. It always looks brand new to be honest.

Pine litter is environmentally friendly and 100% natural and safe to
use. It's so long lasting, controls odors perfectly and is affordable.
It has no dust during use or while cleaning and replacing for you or
your cat to inhale. It doesn't stick to your cat or track all over the
house. I never thought a litter would come along as perfect as pine
litter. Even the most finicky nose can not even detect it's presence
in the home and almost too good to be true, it's inexpensive too - it's
like a dream come true if you ask me. You pour out pellets and as the
litter gets used up, it turns to saw dust. At no point along the way
does it have a bad smell... just give it a stir when removing poop (if
you want, usually I don't even do that) and when it's more sawdust and
less pellets, replace it... very simple and easy to use.

Messing with the litter a cat is used to can be problematic, so if you
want to switch to pine litter, put an inch of it underneath a layer of
your current product without stirring and slowly reduce your current
product until nothing is left but the pine pellets. If your cat has
any setbacks, simply slow down the process. Another option would be to
toilet train your cats. Some say it's not natural and no cat would
ever do such a thing willingly, which is not true. When I was growing
up, we had a cat that taught himself to use the toilet, so don't let
someone with an agenda (or maybe just jealous?) tell you what's normal
and natural and what isn't. If your cat doesn't want to learn toilet
training, trust me, it won't. Cats do not humor us with stupid pet
tricks. They leave that sort of thing to dogs and humans. So you see
there is absolutely no need to put up with indoor cat smelly litter
anymore, those days are gone forever for me and I love it.

The above was taken from Tashi's website and reworded slightly.

==================================================

"ensoul" wrote in message
oups.com...
we have cats, male, fixed, ayear old indoor cats, we always buy them
food for indoor cats
got them at the SPCA, even though we have a small place I asked if we
sahould have 2 litter boxes, they said yes since some cats don't like
sharing....we've tried so many different kinds, have spray called OUT
for urine and feces odor and a Arm & Hammer product that you sprinkle
on top of the litter, they help some, and one of cats, not sure which
one doesn't cover his poop.....I scoop them every day...please don't
suggest one of those machines that self cleans they run $100 and we
can't afforfd....as always apprecaite your suggestions.


ensoul



Put your ear down close to your soul and listen hard.
~Anne Sexton

wrote in message
news:JVbJf.26421$B94.1976@pd7tw3no...
Be REAL careful when "making do" with an alternative as pine is actually
used to keep cats AWAY from things, the only reason a cat will go near
properly prepared cat pine litter is that it's had all of the offending
(and usually allergic to cats) pine oils removed from it.

Call around to your local pet supply places... if they don't know what
you're talking about, ask to speak to the manager or something... pine
litter has been out here for quite some time and there's no excuse for
someone not to offer an economical and ecologically safe alternative like
that.

Anyways, pine shavings used for bedding would very likely not work as they
are very different from kiln-dried, all-oils-removed pellets. Please be
careful. Email me directly if you have any questions or want to see
pictures of it, etc. Anything I can do to help, I am happy to try.

Thankyou very much My neighbour's told me of a pet supply shop down the
road that's supposedly good so I will go and check that out. I have to go
there anyway to ask about bulk cat food for my growing bunch, so I will have
another excuse now!!


"meee" wrote in message
...
thankyou very much!! I really appreciate you going to all this trouble
wrote in message
news:E%9Jf.24722$sa3.21318@pd7tw1no...
I get Tashi's at the big pet supply store here (In Canada) called Pet
Cetera or whatever it's called. I have a friend who owns a cat in
Orange, so I've written him to ask a few questions on your behalf... I'll
come back with his reply ASAP, sorry for delay.


"meee" wrote in message
...
Hi, I was wondering if you would know where I can get pine litter in
Australia? All that seems to be available here is clay and newspaper
litters that don't work very well and the cats' don't like. Any help
would be appreciated!!

wrote in message
news:Ji9Jf.24223$sa3.14328@pd7tw1no...
Clumping clay litter that contains sodium bentonite is extremely
dangerous for your felines as when ingested during normal grooming
from the paws, it forms hard clumps in their digestive tracts which
can cause anything from pain to death. If you're using a product that
fits this description and most especially if you have a long haired
cat that gets quite a bit of litter stuck to their fur, I'd say that
was a pretty dangerous combination.

Besides the obvious health concerns with the clumping agent, these
kinds of litters have harmful silica dust that your cat and you inhale
that damages breathing surfaces permanently and is also a known
carcinogen. Several years before I educated myself on this matter, I
had a cat die from the effects of clumping litter in her system and it
was a slow and painful death that I will feel guilty about for the
rest of my life. As if all of that wasn't bad enough, clay mines are
not eco-friendly either. I really have nothing good to say about clay
litters, and most especially about clumping clay litters.

My veterinarian was NO help whatsoever with figuring out this problem,
so don't expect yours to be! Don't put yourself through the guilt or
your cat through the pain. What seems like common sense in hindsight
was something nobody figured out at the time, and so many cats are
suffering needlessly while the makers of these products count their
blood money and insist their customers are perfectly happy injuring
and killing their beloved pets with their "convenient" products.

***Alternatives***

Try pine wood pellet, corn or wheat litters. They're natural and safe
as long as the pine kind is only made from kiln-dried (natural
oils-removed) pine sawdust formed into pellets and the corn/wheat
varieties don't have any pesticide residues. (i.e. buy commercially
prepared ones, don't try to make your own.) I buy a very large bag of
it twice a year and that's it! It's $20 or $25 but that's Canadian
money too, so it should be even cheaper if you're in the States.

The shelter I got Tashi from was using a pine wood litter so I got the
same thing to ease her transition and I'm so glad I did. It's
amazing. There is NO unpleasant scent whatsoever! Not right away and
not two, three or even four weeks later. After a month I change
Tashi's litter, even though I can literally pick up her litter box and
sniff it and still detect no scent at all. By then the pellets are
mostly saw dust and that's when it's time to replace them. I do
remove solid waste right away, and a little saw dust usually sticks to
that, but it's perfectly safe to flush small amounts of saw dust.
When I dump out the litter into a big green garbage bag, I place the
pan in the tub and pour boiling water all around the sides and into it
and let it sit for a while. Then I dump the water down the toilet and
dry the pan with a paper towel. Because I'm using soft wood instead of
hard silica, the pan stays in perfect non-scratched condition so it's
easy to keep it hygienic. It always looks brand new to be honest.

Pine litter is environmentally friendly and 100% natural and safe to
use. It's so long lasting, controls odors perfectly and is affordable.
It has no dust during use or while cleaning and replacing for you or
your cat to inhale. It doesn't stick to your cat or track all over
the house. I never thought a litter would come along as perfect as
pine litter. Even the most finicky nose can not even detect it's
presence in the home and almost too good to be true, it's inexpensive
too - it's like a dream come true if you ask me. You pour out pellets
and as the litter gets used up, it turns to saw dust. At no point
along the way does it have a bad smell... just give it a stir when
removing poop (if you want, usually I don't even do that) and when
it's more sawdust and less pellets, replace it... very simple and easy
to use.

Messing with the litter a cat is used to can be problematic, so if you
want to switch to pine litter, put an inch of it underneath a layer of
your current product without stirring and slowly reduce your current
product until nothing is left but the pine pellets. If your cat has
any setbacks, simply slow down the process. Another option would be
to toilet train your cats. Some say it's not natural and no cat would
ever do such a thing willingly, which is not true. When I was growing
up, we had a cat that taught himself to use the toilet, so don't let
someone with an agenda (or maybe just jealous?) tell you what's normal
and natural and what isn't. If your cat doesn't want to learn toilet
training, trust me, it won't. Cats do not humor us with stupid pet
tricks. They leave that sort of thing to dogs and humans. So you see
there is absolutely no need to put up with indoor cat smelly litter
anymore, those days are gone forever for me and I love it.

The above was taken from Tashi's website and reworded slightly.

==================================================

"ensoul" wrote in message
oups.com...
we have cats, male, fixed, ayear old indoor cats, we always buy them
food for indoor cats
got them at the SPCA, even though we have a small place I asked if we
sahould have 2 litter boxes, they said yes since some cats don't like
sharing....we've tried so many different kinds, have spray called OUT
for urine and feces odor and a Arm & Hammer product that you sprinkle
on top of the litter, they help some, and one of cats, not sure which
one doesn't cover his poop.....I scoop them every day...please don't
suggest one of those machines that self cleans they run $100 and we
can't afforfd....as always apprecaite your suggestions.


ensoul



Put your ear down close to your soul and listen hard.
~Anne Sexton

wrote in message
news:Ji9Jf.24223$sa3.14328@pd7tw1no...

Besides the obvious health concerns with the clumping agent, these kinds
of litters have harmful silica dust that your cat and you inhale that
damages breathing surfaces permanently and is also a known carcinogen.
Several years before I educated myself on this matter, I had a cat die
from the effects of clumping litter in her system and it was a slow and
painful death that I will feel guilty about for the rest of my life.



Any documentation as to cause of death?

I ask not to be rude, but sincerely want to know. I have heard these things
about clumping litter before but always in an anecdotal sense. My feline
specialist says it is not a valid concern, the Tufts cat newsletter reported
the same thing, and I have yet to be able to find any documented cases.


--
Toni
http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com

Clumping clay litter that contains sodium bentonite is extremely dangerous
for your felines as when ingested during normal grooming from the paws, it
forms hard clumps in their digestive tracts which can cause anything from
pain to death. If you're using a product that fits this description and
most especially if you have a long haired cat that gets quite a bit of
litter stuck to their fur, I'd say that was a pretty dangerous combination.

There are no cases of cats dying from ingesting litter on record anywhere.
There is only one case of a dog having clumping litter inside of him and he
ate a lot of it out of the cat's box.

Besides the obvious health concerns with the clumping agent, these kinds of
litters have harmful silica dust that your cat and you inhale that damages
breathing surfaces permanently and is also a known carcinogen. Several
years before I educated myself on this matter, I had a cat die from the
effects of clumping litter in her system and it was a slow and painful death
that I will feel guilty about for the rest of my life. As if all of that
wasn't bad enough, clay mines are not eco-friendly either. I really have
nothing good to say about clay litters, and most especially about clumping
clay litters.

Thousands upon thousands of cats have used regular litter throughout the
years and are fine and lived to a ripe old age. My sister's 23 year old cat
has used nothing but. The only cases of silica problems are in miners who
work in the mines and inhale large amounts. If a cat has asthma, then
perhaps a different litter is in order, but wheat and corn also have dust.

Sorry about your cat but was an autoposy done? That would have been the only
way to tell if it was clumping litter.

NanCe

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

NanCe via CatKB.com wrote:
Thousands upon thousands of cats have used regular litter throughout
the
years and are fine and lived to a ripe old age. My sister's 23 year old cat
has used nothing but.

Speaking of old cats, I had a terrible experience with clumping litters
and my 17 year old cat. She was very ill with CRF at the time, so
couldn't move out of the box very fast. Anyway, she got some of the
clumping litter stuck between her toes. I tried wiping it off, soaking
her paws, etc., but it was on there like cement. Finally ended up
having to use small cuticle scissors to cut it out from between her
toes. I swore after that to never use that stuff again. These days
we're using Swheat Scoop. I've also used Cat Country Organic and
another natural one which name escapes me now.

Lauren

See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe

Toni wrote:
wrote in message
news:Ji9Jf.24223$sa3.14328@pd7tw1no...

Besides the obvious health concerns with the clumping agent, these kinds
of litters have harmful silica dust that your cat and you inhale that
damages breathing surfaces permanently and is also a known carcinogen.
Several years before I educated myself on this matter, I had a cat die
from the effects of clumping litter in her system and it was a slow and
painful death that I will feel guilty about for the rest of my life.

Any documentation as to cause of death?

I ask not to be rude, but sincerely want to know. I have heard these things
about clumping litter before but always in an anecdotal sense. My feline
specialist says it is not a valid concern, the Tufts cat newsletter reported
the same thing, and I have yet to be able to find any documented cases.

http://www.cah.com/dr_library/litter.html
"On the other hand, Dr. Amy Marder, animal behaviorist and clinical
assistant professor at Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine,
has heard stories from veterinarians and veterinary technicians about
cases where (they believe) clumping litter caused a problem. "But these
cases are rare and anecdotal," says Dr. Marder. "No one has collected
the data." "

Why not search the National Library of Medicine for any articles about
litter and clay? Myself, I'm not pleased with bentonite and stuff. But
if clay is completely harmless, I would like to know. In the meantime I
use SwheatScoop which is wheat based.

Theoretically, bentonite can clog up a system, human or feline if not
careful. It can be dangerous. Actually, it's not so theoretical but is
a possible problem with those interested in cleansing their colons.
Since cats are not water loving, this could be a problem. But how much
can a cat eat cleaning paws?

Here's a summary that sounds pretty reasonable:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.p...m%26hl%3Den%26

"The one article sure to be cited is one that appeared in "tiger tribe"
magazine a few years ago warning of the dangers of clumping litter, and
it's being responsible for the death of several kittens. The author
says that the vet told her the litter was responsible for the deaths.
What the people who cite this article don't ever say is that in the
very next issue, the woman's vet wrote a letter to the editor saying
she had been misquoted, it wasn't so much that the litter caused the
death as much as it was a contributing factor in the subsequent death
of already sick kittens. I personally have not seen any problems (in my
own cats or clients cats/kittens), nor have any of the vets I know
personally or have heard at the seminars I've attended, nor have I seen
anything in the journals or trade magazines.
About a year ago, the U-Illinois Vet School did a literature search and
did not find any published information to support that it is a danger.
So, is it a problem? As to obstructing intestines and causing
death...I'm skeptical and maybe I've just been lucky, but I haven't
seen any evidence to change my opinion, but I certainly would change my
opinion if there is anything substantiated. Anything I've heard to date
is anecdotal and again, seems to tie in with that one article. I DO
feel that it is dustier, and many of my allergic/asthmatic cats have
more respiratory problems when using it. Basically, do what you are
comfortable with.

James Richards, DVM Director, Cornell Feline Health Center
in the March 1998 issue of Ca****ch,
the Cornell University of Veterinary Medicine
Newsletter for Cat People