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  #71  
Old August 20th 05, 03:32 AM
Cheryl
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On Fri 19 Aug 2005 10:10:57p, wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
oups.com):

My wife and I adopted a neighborhood stray about 2 years ago.
He loves the outdoors. For him, stress would be being locked up
inside.

Every cat I've ever had as an adult were taken in from the outdoors
as a stray or feral. The first one had a brief indoor/outdoor
period while I lived in an apt on a farm, but adapted well indoors
when I moved. Yes, he'd disappear for days at a time and I was a
wreck. Landlady loved having him there because being a farm, the
rat population went down once he was around. He also had to have
abscesses lanced every once in a while from fighting with other
cats or whatever (he was neutered). One infection almost killed
him. Another was a cat that lived indoors till age 3, then was set
loose outdoors not allowed back into his home after he got infested
with fleas. He was the likely one to want to go back out, but did
well indoors. One was a stray fed by someone until they had to
move, and they had a shelter come pick him up rather than abandon
him. I fostered him until he decided he liked it here. He does well
indoors. 1 was a feral until I trapped her to have her neutered and
either release her, or find her a home. I kept her. Indoors. She's
not unhappy and never tries to leave. 2 were 9-week-old littermates
born outdoors and lost their stray/feral mother somewhere. Been
here now going on a year in November. They do well indoors. This
isn't counting the many I've fostered or kept temporarily until
finding a permenant home. The fostered cats were adopted with the
understanding they'd be kept indoors. No, I haven't followed up
this many years later to make sure it was carried out, but that's
out of my control. I accept that.

I suppose we're lucky that whatever dangers and risks a cat
faces outside, ours had learned to avoid them before we took him
in. It is just amazing to watch him climb 40 feet up a tree, or
chase a squirrel across the yard (he's only ever caught one
once, that we have seen).

But the best part is, he will only "go to the bathroom" outside,
so we never have to worry about maintaining a litter box! :-)


That really isn't "the best part" because you'll not have an early
warning if something's wrong. Merely convenience for you.


--
Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields
  #72  
Old August 20th 05, 05:41 AM
Phil P.
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wrote in message
oups.com...

Dr.Carla,DVM wrote:
Oh and before I get off my soap box, I forgot, indoor only cats don't

need
vaccinations unless they spend time at kennels, etc.
Vaccinations in cats have been shown to cause VASTS (vaccine associated

soft
tissue sarcomas) or tumors. Its not clear yet which part of the

vaccines
are causing this terrible outcome.
There is a new safer rabies shot for cats, ask your vet about it next

time
you go for vaccinations.


What about indoor-only cats and obesity? That can't be very healthy.



Obesity has *nothing* to do with whether the cat is an indoor or
free-roaming outdoor cat. Feline obesity is a result of overfeeding and
failure to provide exercise for the cat- IOW, its the *owner's* fault.





  #73  
Old August 20th 05, 05:42 AM
Phil P.
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wrote in message
ups.com...

Phil P. wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it's
cruel to keep them inside (unless they're not interested).


Its a cultural thing. Most (60%) cat owners in the U.S. feel that its
cruel to expose cats to the stress and dangers outside of a safe home.

An
outdoor cat lives a more stressful life than an indoor cat.

If you know a little about cats, and if you're sensitive to your cat's
needs, you can provide your cat with a rich, happy, healthy, and safe

life
indoors.

Phil


My wife and I adopted a neighborhood stray about 2 years ago. He loves
the outdoors. For him, stress would be being locked up inside.



I have two former ferals that I trapped who adapted perfectly to an indoor
life. How well a cat adapts to indoor living depends largely on the age at
which she was trapped and the method used in the transition.



I suppose we're lucky that whatever dangers and risks a cat faces
outside, ours had learned to avoid them before we took him in. It is
just amazing to watch him climb 40 feet up a tree, or chase a squirrel
across the yard (he's only ever caught one once, that we have seen).

But the best part is, he will only "go to the bathroom" outside, so we
never have to worry about maintaining a litter box! :-)



How do you know if your cat has a potentially fatal urinary tract
obstruction, UTI , straining or painful urination or defecation or
constipation or diarrhea if you can't physically *observe* your cat's
elimination behavior? Litterbox behavior and products are often warning
signs of internal disease.





  #74  
Old August 20th 05, 05:43 AM
Phil P.
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"Ivor Jones" wrote in message
...


"Phil P." wrote in message

"Ivor Jones" wrote in message
...

For my part, if I were unable to allow a cat outdoors
through risk of predators or any other reason, I simply
wouldn't have a cat.


That's not practical or even realistic in the USA because
that mentality would result in millions upon millions of
homeless cats and a 10 times increase in shelter
killings.


Something else we don't do here.



That's a myth that has been fostered by the government to promote a sterling
image of a 'cat-loving' nation. - The UK has an overpopulation problem,
also, and *certainly* does use kill-shelters.



  #75  
Old August 20th 05, 05:53 AM
Dr.Carla,DVM
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None of my cats are obese.
Actually the only obese cat I owned was the outdoor one that died of Feline
Leukemia


  #76  
Old August 20th 05, 06:46 AM
Dr.Carla,DVM
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Reasons why cats scratch trees or furniture (according to established animal
behaviorists):
1. Removal of outer nail sheaths (cats will scratch even if they are
declawed before they have any experience with scratching)
2. Leaving scents (between digits and on pads there are glands which leave
scents)
3. Exercise (stretching)

In feral cats groups, scratching has been observed more often in the
presence of others than when alone leading to a hypothesis that scratching
was done more for marking and investigation than for actual sharpening.

Cats which are scratching to remove outer sheaths can be successfully
curtailed in many instances by trimming their nails manually on a regular
basis. The use of nail sheaths has also been successful. One additional
approach which helps to deter unwanted furniture scratching is removal of
evidence. It has been noted that a cat will scratch again where it observes
that a scratch has already been made. Therefore repairing scratch marks
will help to keep the cat from seeing this piece of furniture as a
scratching post.
Declawing to eliminate this natural behavior is an elective mutilation and a
very controversial subject. Some veterinarians will outright object to the
surgery. An alternative surgery involves disengaging (cutting) the tendon
that engages the claws. It is still surgery and still requires anesthesia
and all its risks and the owner will need to trim the cats claws on a
regular basis. However, there is the argument that it is preferable to
declaw an animal than to have it killed for this natural but destructive
behavior.

All owners should be aware that onychectomy (declawing) is not removal of a
nail but removal of an entire joint of every digit and that there are
complications (albeit rare) including anesthetic risks, infection,
uncontrolled bleeding, aversion to clay litter, unwillingness to have feet
manipulated or bear weight on feet. Recent studies measuring force applied
to a declawed paw have revealed that pain/discomfort persists at least 12
days post surgery.

Cats which scratch to leave scents and exercise are more difficult to
control. It is important to observe whether a cat prefers horizontal or
vertical scratching. This way you can provide an appropriate place for them
to scratch which will be appealing to them. Positive reinforcement when a
cat scratches at an appropriate place is one key to deterring inappropriate
behavior.
In addition, a bell placed on the collar of a cat will not only alert the
owner to where the cat is scratching but will signal when a cat is
scratching in an inappropriate place. When a cat is seen at the
inappropriate place they should immediately be redirected to an appropriate
scratching area and rewarded when they begin to scratch the proper place be
it a scratching post (vertical) or a log (horizontal). A reward can be
praise, petting or treat. Some behaviorists believe that negative
reinforcement will also deter scratching at inappropriate areas. The most
minimal level of negativity is preferred; voice, water. Startle the cat,
don't terrify it.
One problem remains; when you are not at home, there is no reinforcement at
all.
One additional approach which helps to deter unwanted furniture scratching
is removal of evidence.


  #77  
Old August 20th 05, 12:26 PM
Wendy
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"Phil P." wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...

Dr.Carla,DVM wrote:
Oh and before I get off my soap box, I forgot, indoor only cats don't

need
vaccinations unless they spend time at kennels, etc.
Vaccinations in cats have been shown to cause VASTS (vaccine associated

soft
tissue sarcomas) or tumors. Its not clear yet which part of the

vaccines
are causing this terrible outcome.
There is a new safer rabies shot for cats, ask your vet about it next

time
you go for vaccinations.


What about indoor-only cats and obesity? That can't be very healthy.



Obesity has *nothing* to do with whether the cat is an indoor or
free-roaming outdoor cat. Feline obesity is a result of overfeeding and
failure to provide exercise for the cat- IOW, its the *owner's* fault.


I have to agree. Our first cat after we moved in our house was a confirmed
indoor/outdoor fat cat. She got plenty of exercise but we were feeding her
grocery store food and going by the package directions for how much to give
her. I plead ignorance because I had never heard of the premium foods that
my guys get now. She passed at 13 of kidney failure at 13 lbs. She should
have been a 10 lb. cat. -my fault. I've tried harder with subsequent kitties
and feed them better quality food.


  #78  
Old August 20th 05, 12:42 PM
Wendy
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wrote in message
oups.com...
Well I don't think we should have pets and keep them in prison if they
don't want to stay in. Mine goes out in the summer and its safe, if it
wasn't safe I guess I wouldn't have got a cat, I'd have got a goldfish.


I'm glad it's safe for your cat to go out. So much easier for you. I just
wish the people who have found a way to train their cats to stay away from
traffic would tell the rest of us how to do it. How do you train your cat
not to fight with a neighborhood cat and come home with wounds that can (and
do) abscess and/or spread disease? You are really lucky that ALL of your
neighbors love cats and have no objections to your guys wandering into their
gardens to poop in their flower bed. Oh, you trained them to stay in your
garden exclusively? Please enlighten me to your training method. Like I said
much easier for me if I could let mine out. I would never again have to
scoop a litter tray and would have more room in my living room without the
cat tree. I wouldn't have to wash the curtains as often to get off the cat
hair from them climbing on and off of the window sills etc etc. So if there
is a training method to teach my cats to stay out of trouble outside I'd
like to know about it.

In the meantime I'll keep them inside where they won't tangle with the stray
cats I've seen wandering the neighborhood, where I don't have to worry about
whether they look both ways before crossing the street, don't have to worry
about some of the children who are being raised by cat hating parents and
don't have to worry about ****ing off the neighbors when my cat is in their
garden using it as a litter box.

W


  #79  
Old August 20th 05, 01:32 PM
shortfuse
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At our vets office there is a chart to track when your cat is obesed. My
Nightshade is about 14 lbs but he is solid as a rock. Mostly "muscle". We
live in a house where they can run up/down the stairs and through the
house,too...So even though they are all over 10 lbs, I have not been told
they were overwt.


  #80  
Old August 20th 05, 02:40 PM
MaryL
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"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
On Fri 19 Aug 2005 10:10:57p, wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
oups.com):

snip

I suppose we're lucky that whatever dangers and risks a cat
faces outside, ours had learned to avoid them before we took him
in. It is just amazing to watch him climb 40 feet up a tree, or
chase a squirrel across the yard (he's only ever caught one
once, that we have seen).

But the best part is, he will only "go to the bathroom" outside,
so we never have to worry about maintaining a litter box! :-)


That really isn't "the best part" because you'll not have an early
warning if something's wrong. Merely convenience for you.


--
Cheryl



Cheryl is exactly right. Outdoor "litter boxes" may be convenient for you,
but you will have no warning if your cat develops a urinary tract
infection -- something that can quickly progress to a very serious (and
possibly fatal) problem. Moreover, you say that your cat has learned to
avoid dangers and risks. That may be true, but it will take only one
incident that your cat can't or doesn't avoid to change this whole
picture -- car accident, encounter with another animal that is larger and
more aggressive than your cat, human cruelty, etc. Your cat sees birds as
prey and probably has killed many of them. Unfortunately, there are also
animals that will see your cat as *their* prey. I sincerely hope none of
those things ever occurs, but there is good reason why the average life span
of an outdoor cat is so much shorter than that of an indoor cat.

MaryL

My cats --
Duffy:
http://tinyurl.com/cslwf
Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o
Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e




 




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