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Have We Done Some Harm With Our "Too Rapid" Kitten - Cat Introduction?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 5th 05, 07:30 AM
Steve Remington
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Have We Done Some Harm With Our "Too Rapid" Kitten - Cat Introduction?

Hello All,

Firstly a bit of background.

About 3 months ago one of our two 3-year old Burmese male cats, who were
litter mates, died suddenly. Our vet thinks that the cause of death was
some form of cardiac disease or stroke. Both cats were best friends and
played and got on very well together. The remaining cat (Fidel) was very
lonely after death of his brother. I suppose this was the cat equivalent of
mourning. In the last couple of weeks he seemed to be getting better. He
was more spritely and started to "play by himself", that is run around the
house like he did when he and his brother played chasing. He also is a very
confident cat who always tries to "meet" other cats when we walk him on a
lead. Unfortunately he is not always that successful because he does not
understand cat etiquette...he just goes up to the cat he comes across and
tries a face to face meeting. It is like he is saying "Hello my name is
Fidel will you be my friend?" This approach as you can imagine is usually
met with a hiss, a growl and the other cat running away.

We thought that now would be a good time to get a new friend for him. We
primarily decided this for the same reason that we got two cats in the first
place...my wife and I are sometimes away from home all day and two cats
would give each other a friend and reduce separation anxiety. We selected a
good breeder and chose a male (desexed) Burmese kitten who is 12 weeks old
to be Fidel's new friend.

Hopefully so far so good.

Yesterday afternoon we brought the kitten home. We started things OK...new
kitten in separate room etc, etc. Unfortunately our emotions got in the way
of good practice. After a few hours the kitten seemed quite confident with
his new surroundings. We decided that a brief introduction to Fidel would
help the process (or at least make us feel better about things). We
supervised the meeting and in the main it went OK. Fidel in his usual style
went straight up to the kitten and started sniffing. There was no sign of
aggression from Fidel...just a little bit if hissing from the kitten. We
kept these meetings quite short (about five minutes) and then separated them
again. There was about three of these meetings last night. During the
night I slept in the lounge room fold out bed with Fidel (he sees me as his
owner and bonded to me quite early) while my wife slept in the bed room with
the kitten. This morning we thought we would try another meeting. This
meeting went well too and we even added a bit of joint playing with Fidel's
favourite toy. No hissing or growling from anyone.

Again all went well. I suppose by know you are thinking "So what is the
problem?"

At the next meeting after I had spent some time with the kitten by myself
Fidel started "chattering" at the kitten as he would if he saw a bird and
even hissed aggressively at the kitten. We stopped the meeting straight
away then comforted both Fidel and the Kitten. I think this behaviour from
Fidel may have been caused by him feeling jealous about me spending time
with the kitten.

We have now, after reading more on the web about the correct process to
introduce a cat and kitten, decided to take the process much slower and
delay any more meetings until Fidel and the kitten are more used to each
others presence and smell.

My main question is: "Do you think that introducing them too quickly as we
did could have caused any long term effect on the likelihood of the two of
them getting on OK?" We know that Fidel may not get on as well with the
kitten as he did with the his brother but we would like to do what we can do
to maximise the chance of a positive relationship between Fidel and the new
kitten.

Thanks in advance to all who take the time to reply.
--
Regards,
Steve
-----------------------------------------
Steve Remington
Hawthorn, Victoria, Australia

-----------------------------------------
Steve Remington IS my name so remove
the ".notmy" from email address to reply
-----------------------------------------
Great spirits have always encountered
violent opposition from mediocre minds.
Albert Einstein
-----------------------------------------


  #2  
Old June 5th 05, 02:34 PM
MaryL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Steve,

No, I am sure you have not done any long-term damage. However, you
have learned the lesson that many others have faced -- that is, we let
our emotions overcome what our brains tell us about the importance of
slow introductions. People sometimes have success by just putting two
cats together almost immediately, but that can also be a recipe for
disaster. It is much better practice to keep the cats separate for
awhile (as you originally intended) and very *slowly* and *gradually*
accomplish an introduction. When I first adopted Duffy, I had to be
very careful because Holly had always rejected any other cats. This
was a different situation, of course, because these were two adult cats
and Holly had an established history of attacking any other cat that
was close to me. However, even that problem was overcome -- but it
took a lot of patience and the necessity to overcome the desire for
quick results. One of the most important tools I used was to
temporarily replace a door to one room (the room where Duffy stayed)
with a door that we modified with a metal mesh panel at the bottom of
the door. We used the hardware from the original door (door knob and
hinges) and eventually reversed the process and replaced the original
door after Duffy and Holly were acclimated. The purpose of this door
was to permit the two cats to see each other and become comfortable
while in "almost" contact but not permit them to get into a
confrontation. This worked extremely well! In particular, I could see
Holly move from a posture of anger to acceptance to actual interest in
Duffy. Incidentally, an inexpensive screen door would work just as
well. You might also find it beneficial to buy a couple of Feliway
diffusers and use them in the rooms that the cats most-often use.

I recently had another lesson, myself, about how important the slow
introduction can be -- together with a small lesson on misplaced
aggression. It has now been more than 2 years since I adopted Duffy,
and my two have blended beautifully -- or so I thought. However, I
added a sunroom to my house this spring. All went well until the last
week of construction. Neither cat "seemed" to be bothered by the noise
of construction. However, during that final week, Holly suddenly
started to attack Duffy. Poor little Duffy was not injured, but he was
truly frightened and would immediately scramble under furniture to try
to escape. This was definitely not "playing"; the noise and constant
disruption of our routine had apparently finally caused enough anxiety
that Holly reverted to attacking other cat (in this case, it was Duffy
who was under attack even though he nothing to do with the change in
routine). Since Duffy is blind, he was suddenly at a great
disadvantage in the confrontation. At first, I made the same mistake
you did. I separated them for a day and then permitted them together
again. Big mistake! Holly attacked again, and I could see that she
was really angry. Duffy, of course, was completely intimidated. So, I
started the introduction process all over again. It did not take
nearly as long as my original introduction for the two cats, but I did
go through all the original steps -- separate rooms for the two cats,
bring out the temporary door with the mesh panel, feed the cats in
separate rooms but on plates placed very close to the door so they were
eating in close proximity, and bring out the Feliway. I am happy to
report that everything is "normal" again, and the two cats are once
again close companions -- but this shows how important it is to proceed
slowly and monitor the situation.

By the way, I always laughed because it was Duffy (my little blind cat)
who would literally stalk and pounce on Holly (who is actually larger
and stronger than Duffy). Duffy, of course, just wanted to play.
Holly would either enter into the game or haughtily leap up to some
surface where Duffy couldn't find her. During the period following
sunroom construction when Holly began to attack Duffy, he suddenly
learned just how powerful she really is and he was quite frightened.
Now that things are back to normal, Duffy is once again prancing around
with his tail in the air and is back to his old game of stalking and
pouncing on Holly!

MaryL

  #3  
Old June 5th 05, 06:41 PM
mlbriggs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 06:34:44 -0700, MaryL wrote:

Steve,

No, I am sure you have not done any long-term damage. However, you have
learned the lesson that many others have faced -- that is, we let our
emotions overcome what our brains tell us about the importance of slow
introductions. People sometimes have success by just putting two cats
together almost immediately, but that can also be a recipe for disaster.
It is much better practice to keep the cats separate for awhile (as you
originally intended) and very *slowly* and *gradually* accomplish an
introduction. When I first adopted Duffy, I had to be very careful
because Holly had always rejected any other cats. This was a different
situation, of course, because these were two adult cats and Holly had an
established history of attacking any other cat that was close to me.
However, even that problem was overcome -- but it took a lot of patience
and the necessity to overcome the desire for quick results. One of the
most important tools I used was to temporarily replace a door to one room
(the room where Duffy stayed) with a door that we modified with a metal
mesh panel at the bottom of the door. We used the hardware from the
original door (door knob and hinges) and eventually reversed the process
and replaced the original door after Duffy and Holly were acclimated. The
purpose of this door was to permit the two cats to see each other and
become comfortable while in "almost" contact but not permit them to get
into a confrontation. This worked extremely well! In particular, I could
see Holly move from a posture of anger to acceptance to actual interest in
Duffy. Incidentally, an inexpensive screen door would work just as well.
You might also find it beneficial to buy a couple of Feliway diffusers and
use them in the rooms that the cats most-often use.

I recently had another lesson, myself, about how important the slow
introduction can be -- together with a small lesson on misplaced
aggression. It has now been more than 2 years since I adopted Duffy, and
my two have blended beautifully -- or so I thought. However, I added a
sunroom to my house this spring. All went well until the last week of
construction. Neither cat "seemed" to be bothered by the noise of
construction. However, during that final week, Holly suddenly started to
attack Duffy. Poor little Duffy was not injured, but he was truly
frightened and would immediately scramble under furniture to try to
escape. This was definitely not "playing"; the noise and constant
disruption of our routine had apparently finally caused enough anxiety
that Holly reverted to attacking other cat (in this case, it was Duffy who
was under attack even though he nothing to do with the change in routine).
Since Duffy is blind, he was suddenly at a great disadvantage in the
confrontation. At first, I made the same mistake you did. I separated
them for a day and then permitted them together again. Big mistake!
Holly attacked again, and I could see that she was really angry. Duffy,
of course, was completely intimidated. So, I started the introduction
process all over again. It did not take nearly as long as my original
introduction for the two cats, but I did go through all the original steps
-- separate rooms for the two cats, bring out the temporary door with the
mesh panel, feed the cats in separate rooms but on plates placed very
close to the door so they were eating in close proximity, and bring out
the Feliway. I am happy to report that everything is "normal" again, and
the two cats are once again close companions -- but this shows how
important it is to proceed slowly and monitor the situation.

By the way, I always laughed because it was Duffy (my little blind cat)
who would literally stalk and pounce on Holly (who is actually larger and
stronger than Duffy). Duffy, of course, just wanted to play. Holly would
either enter into the game or haughtily leap up to some surface where
Duffy couldn't find her. During the period following sunroom construction
when Holly began to attack Duffy, he suddenly learned just how powerful
she really is and he was quite frightened. Now that things are back to
normal, Duffy is once again prancing around with his tail in the air and
is back to his old game of stalking and pouncing on Holly!

MaryL



Very interesting to read. Purrs being sent that all goes well in the
future. MLB

  #4  
Old June 5th 05, 11:47 PM
Steve Remington
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mary,

Thanks for taking the time write a full and detailed reply.

I very much like the idea of the door with the screen. I think that I can
do this without too much trouble.

I also have a little update. Last night (24 hour after the kitten was
brought home) we caught Fidel and the kitten playing "pawsy" under the door
dividing the two of them. We watched quietly and carefully from Fidel's
side to see how he approached it. The was no hissing or growling from him.
He just seemed to be playing the game with interest and curiosity. We
rewarded him with one of his favourite food treats after he finished
playing. Hopefully reinforcing in him that playing nice that with the
kitten is a good thing.

But rest assured that we have not been lulled into a false sense of security
by this and we will continue the slow process.
--
Regards,
Steve
-----------------------------------------
Steve Remington
Hawthorn, Victoria, Australia

-----------------------------------------
Steve Remington IS my name so remove
the ".notmy" from email address to reply
-----------------------------------------
Great spirits have always encountered
violent opposition from mediocre minds.
Albert Einstein
-----------------------------------------
"MaryL" wrote in message
oups.com...
Steve,

No, I am sure you have not done any long-term damage. However, you
have learned the lesson that many others have faced -- that is, we let
our emotions overcome what our brains tell us about the importance of
slow introductions. People sometimes have success by just putting two
cats together almost immediately, but that can also be a recipe for
disaster. It is much better practice to keep the cats separate for
awhile (as you originally intended) and very *slowly* and *gradually*
accomplish an introduction. When I first adopted Duffy, I had to be
very careful because Holly had always rejected any other cats. This
was a different situation, of course, because these were two adult cats
and Holly had an established history of attacking any other cat that
was close to me. However, even that problem was overcome -- but it
took a lot of patience and the necessity to overcome the desire for
quick results. One of the most important tools I used was to
temporarily replace a door to one room (the room where Duffy stayed)
with a door that we modified with a metal mesh panel at the bottom of
the door. We used the hardware from the original door (door knob and
hinges) and eventually reversed the process and replaced the original
door after Duffy and Holly were acclimated. The purpose of this door
was to permit the two cats to see each other and become comfortable
while in "almost" contact but not permit them to get into a
confrontation. This worked extremely well! In particular, I could see
Holly move from a posture of anger to acceptance to actual interest in
Duffy. Incidentally, an inexpensive screen door would work just as
well. You might also find it beneficial to buy a couple of Feliway
diffusers and use them in the rooms that the cats most-often use.

I recently had another lesson, myself, about how important the slow
introduction can be -- together with a small lesson on misplaced
aggression. It has now been more than 2 years since I adopted Duffy,
and my two have blended beautifully -- or so I thought. However, I
added a sunroom to my house this spring. All went well until the last
week of construction. Neither cat "seemed" to be bothered by the noise
of construction. However, during that final week, Holly suddenly
started to attack Duffy. Poor little Duffy was not injured, but he was
truly frightened and would immediately scramble under furniture to try
to escape. This was definitely not "playing"; the noise and constant
disruption of our routine had apparently finally caused enough anxiety
that Holly reverted to attacking other cat (in this case, it was Duffy
who was under attack even though he nothing to do with the change in
routine). Since Duffy is blind, he was suddenly at a great
disadvantage in the confrontation. At first, I made the same mistake
you did. I separated them for a day and then permitted them together
again. Big mistake! Holly attacked again, and I could see that she
was really angry. Duffy, of course, was completely intimidated. So, I
started the introduction process all over again. It did not take
nearly as long as my original introduction for the two cats, but I did
go through all the original steps -- separate rooms for the two cats,
bring out the temporary door with the mesh panel, feed the cats in
separate rooms but on plates placed very close to the door so they were
eating in close proximity, and bring out the Feliway. I am happy to
report that everything is "normal" again, and the two cats are once
again close companions -- but this shows how important it is to proceed
slowly and monitor the situation.

By the way, I always laughed because it was Duffy (my little blind cat)
who would literally stalk and pounce on Holly (who is actually larger
and stronger than Duffy). Duffy, of course, just wanted to play.
Holly would either enter into the game or haughtily leap up to some
surface where Duffy couldn't find her. During the period following
sunroom construction when Holly began to attack Duffy, he suddenly
learned just how powerful she really is and he was quite frightened.
Now that things are back to normal, Duffy is once again prancing around
with his tail in the air and is back to his old game of stalking and
pouncing on Holly!

MaryL



  #5  
Old June 6th 05, 01:22 AM
MaryL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Steve,

Excellent! Your description of "pawsy" under the door is exactly what
you want. In fact, one thing I forgot to mention is that the screen
door should be cut short enough so the cats can reach each other under
the door. You could also place a treat (such as tuna) on each side of
a platter and slide that under the door so that each cat is eating from
the same dish -- but safely separated by the screen.

MaryL

  #6  
Old June 6th 05, 05:33 AM
cajunprincess
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Steve Remington wrote:
Mary,

Thanks for taking the time write a full and detailed reply.

I very much like the idea of the door with the screen. I think that I can
do this without too much trouble.

I also have a little update. Last night (24 hour after the kitten was
brought home) we caught Fidel and the kitten playing "pawsy" under the door
dividing the two of them. We watched quietly and carefully from Fidel's
side to see how he approached it. The was no hissing or growling from him.
He just seemed to be playing the game with interest and curiosity. We
rewarded him with one of his favourite food treats after he finished
playing. Hopefully reinforcing in him that playing nice that with the
kitten is a good thing.

But rest assured that we have not been lulled into a false sense of security
by this and we will continue the slow process.
--

I have only done this once, but I'll add in my two cents on the chance
that it may help. My situation was a little different in that I
adopted two adult cats from the vet/shelter at once, so both were
adapting to their new home as well as to having the other as the only
other cat around. On the advice of the "behavioural specialist" at the
vet (hey, her name tag says so) I shut them up in seperate rooms and
managed to get them to sleep on some towels I brought in. After a few
days, I alternated letting one have the run of the house while the
other was in their room and swapped the towels so that they could
become accustomed to the smell of the other. In your case, I would
think shutting up the cat who has lived with you in a room for a long
period of time wouldn't be advisable. I started letting them out in the
house together in about a week. Things worked out pretty smoothly
compared to the rocky road some people go through, although for about
the first three weeks of being together in the house there were some
spats. Then I tried Feliway and it helped that problem right away
(YMMV). They aren't best buddies-more like roommates, but I can't
complain about that result. I think anything better between cats who
aren't littermates is kind of a bonus.

  #7  
Old June 6th 05, 12:23 PM
Alex
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Steve Remington" wrote in message
...

My main question is: "Do you think that introducing them too quickly as we
did could have caused any long term effect on the likelihood of the two of
them getting on OK?" We know that Fidel may not get on as well with the
kitten as he did with the his brother but we would like to do what we can

do
to maximise the chance of a positive relationship between Fidel and the

new
kitten.

Thanks in advance to all who take the time to reply.
--
Regards,
Steve


Very interestied in yoru post - as we had 2 brothers (just domestic
shorthair moggies), one of whom ran away (rather than died), and we were
thinking of getting a kitten (a Burmese, coincidentally) to offer some
companionship to Khamun - although he doesn't seem to have missed his
brother too much., but they didn't seem to interract much when they were
together so maybe that's the explanation. Khamun is a very calm cat so I'm
hopeful that the introduction will go OK - he doesn't seem to get too upset
when a neighbouring cat comes in through the catflap and eats his food.
Although he does the same to him so he can't complain much... Are Burmese
quite a nice active breed? I find Khamun rather docile sometimes.


  #8  
Old June 6th 05, 11:24 PM
Steve Remington
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Alex,

While I can't yet comment on the outcome of the introduction of our new
kitten I can comment on our experience with the Burmese breed.

Above all they are a very intelligent cat. I have read in many places that
the Burmese is often called the "Dog Cat" because you can train them to do
many things that a dog will do. My experience has been that they are very
intelligent but with the independence of a cat. For example we can get
Fidel to fetch a ball or other toy like a dog but the difference is the
Fidel will play for a little while and then stop with the attitude of "OK!
OK! I have humoured you now but I don't want to play any more".

We have also trained our cats to walk confidently on a lead. Fidel loves it
and nothing phases him while on his walk not even the noise of cars, trucks
and trams at a busy intersection. He also loves the attention he gets when
people see the unusual sight of a cat being walked on a lead. He always
gets a pat or a cuddle.

They are also very loyal. Fidel has bonded to me and is never too far away
when I am working at home.

Also one thing about Burmese cats is that they should never be allowed
outside to roam. They do not have very good road sense and their confidence
with other people means that they are likely to be stolen.

I would recommend a Burmese to any person wanting an intelligence active and
affectionate cat.

But remember however calm and welcoming of other cats you current cat is he
may react differently when you introduce a permanent cat to the house so
make sure you take the introduction slowly.
--
Regards,
Steve
-----------------------------------------
Steve Remington
Hawthorn, Victoria, Australia

-----------------------------------------
Steve Remington IS my name so remove
the ".notmy" from email address to reply
-----------------------------------------
Great spirits have always encountered
violent opposition from mediocre minds.
Albert Einstein
-----------------------------------------
"Alex" wrote in message
...

"Steve Remington" wrote in message
...

My main question is: "Do you think that introducing them too quickly as

we
did could have caused any long term effect on the likelihood of the two

of
them getting on OK?" We know that Fidel may not get on as well with the
kitten as he did with the his brother but we would like to do what we

can
do
to maximise the chance of a positive relationship between Fidel and the

new
kitten.

Thanks in advance to all who take the time to reply.
--
Regards,
Steve


Very interestied in yoru post - as we had 2 brothers (just domestic
shorthair moggies), one of whom ran away (rather than died), and we were
thinking of getting a kitten (a Burmese, coincidentally) to offer some
companionship to Khamun - although he doesn't seem to have missed his
brother too much., but they didn't seem to interract much when they were
together so maybe that's the explanation. Khamun is a very calm cat so

I'm
hopeful that the introduction will go OK - he doesn't seem to get too

upset
when a neighbouring cat comes in through the catflap and eats his food.
Although he does the same to him so he can't complain much... Are Burmese
quite a nice active breed? I find Khamun rather docile sometimes.




 




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