Unbelievable!! I'vge finally "won" the battle!

in article , equalizer at
equalizer wrote on 2/12/05 3:47 PM:

Or rather, Floppy has let me win.

The kittens will be 5 this April. Very early on Floppy decided he'd only
eat dry food. The other 2 and mom are fine with wet or dry, but I've
been forced to feed them all dry for the past 4 years because Floppy
refused the wet. I've tried all of the tricks over the years, including
fasting, and Floppy always called my bluff at the 48 hour mark when I
became afraid of inducing Lipidosis.

Well, last night I decided to try again. At their regular feeding time,
2AM, instead of the automatic feeder going off full of dry, I was awake
to give them a can of Wellness Chicken, one of the brands "cleared" by
Phil P. Not surprisingly, Floppy turned it down and I was pretty much
set to fail again. I talked to a vet before starting yesterday, and she
told me because of his weight, 48 hours would be unsafe to fast, and I
should go no longer than 24 hours. If he didn't eat, I was to give him
VERY small amounts of Wellness dry to maintain calorie intake and hunger
at the same time.

Well, 9 hours into it, I gave the others a little more wet as a snack,
which got Floppy wanting food. I presented him with the wet and he
predictably turned his nose up at it. I then decided I'd try the heating
approach again, and nuked it to warm it up. This time, unlike all the
other times, he actually sniffed it with interest without recoiling with
revulsion, but wouldn't eat it. I was stoked, so I decided to try the
tuna juice again, and poured some on there and nuked it again. This time
he actually got his face in there and licked around the mound of food,
licking up the tuna juice. Wow! I was amazed! So I kept at it,
re-warming the food and putting it back in front of him when it cooled
off to re-interest him, and he continued to lick around the food. Then,
I poured a bit of juice around the food again, and poured some OVER the
food as well, and nuked it. He licked around the food again, and then
began licking the juice off the food! Then the miracle happened -- he
began licking the food when the juice was gone, and slowly licked it up
-- over the course of 45 minutes and numerous re-heating's -- about a
tablespoon of food altogether!

Then, I fed the others at 2PM, and Floppy sniffed at it and walked away.
About an hour later I put a little more food (about a teaspoon) in his
dish and nuked it, but this time didn't add tuna juice. He went to town
on it! Then at about 4 he came looking for more, so I put about 2
tablespoons, right out of the fridge in the bowl and put it down. Know
what? He ate the whole freakin' thing, just like a normal cat!! I'm so
proud of him, and told him so as he ate!!

I hope this continues, because I'm really worried about keeping them on
a dry only diet. Having all of them eating canned will really make
things simpler in the long run. I'm now going to buy the other canned
varieties that Phil mentioned -- Hill's Turkey and Wysong Chicken, to
have a backup if Wellness goes to hell.

eq

Great job. I may have to work on Sugar again.

equalizer wrote in message
...
Or rather, Floppy has let me win.

The kittens will be 5 this April. Very early on Floppy decided he'd only
eat dry food. The other 2 and mom are fine with wet or dry, but I've
been forced to feed them all dry for the past 4 years because Floppy
refused the wet. I've tried all of the tricks over the years, including
fasting, and Floppy always called my bluff at the 48 hour mark when I
became afraid of inducing Lipidosis.

Well, last night I decided to try again. At their regular feeding time,
2AM, instead of the automatic feeder going off full of dry, I was awake
to give them a can of Wellness Chicken, one of the brands "cleared" by
Phil P. Not surprisingly, Floppy turned it down and I was pretty much
set to fail again. I talked to a vet before starting yesterday, and she
told me because of his weight, 48 hours would be unsafe to fast, and I
should go no longer than 24 hours. If he didn't eat, I was to give him
VERY small amounts of Wellness dry to maintain calorie intake and hunger
at the same time.

Well, 9 hours into it, I gave the others a little more wet as a snack,
which got Floppy wanting food. I presented him with the wet and he
predictably turned his nose up at it. I then decided I'd try the heating
approach again, and nuked it to warm it up. This time, unlike all the
other times, he actually sniffed it with interest without recoiling with
revulsion, but wouldn't eat it. I was stoked, so I decided to try the
tuna juice again, and poured some on there and nuked it again. This time
he actually got his face in there and licked around the mound of food,
licking up the tuna juice. Wow! I was amazed! So I kept at it,
re-warming the food and putting it back in front of him when it cooled
off to re-interest him, and he continued to lick around the food. Then,
I poured a bit of juice around the food again, and poured some OVER the
food as well, and nuked it. He licked around the food again, and then
began licking the juice off the food! Then the miracle happened -- he
began licking the food when the juice was gone, and slowly licked it up
-- over the course of 45 minutes and numerous re-heating's -- about a
tablespoon of food altogether!

Then, I fed the others at 2PM, and Floppy sniffed at it and walked away.
About an hour later I put a little more food (about a teaspoon) in his
dish and nuked it, but this time didn't add tuna juice. He went to town
on it! Then at about 4 he came looking for more, so I put about 2
tablespoons, right out of the fridge in the bowl and put it down. Know
what? He ate the whole freakin' thing, just like a normal cat!! I'm so
proud of him, and told him so as he ate!!

I hope this continues, because I'm really worried about keeping them on
a dry only diet. Having all of them eating canned will really make
things simpler in the long run. I'm now going to buy the other canned
varieties that Phil mentioned -- Hill's Turkey and Wysong Chicken, to
have a backup if Wellness goes to hell.

eq

Congratualtions to you and the Flopster too! I don't imagine I need to
tell you what a total catslave you really are, do I? 8)

Hi
if he stops eating the wet food again try mixing dry food in with it, by
the way why don't you want to feed him dry all
the time ,one of my cats only gets dry all the time that all
she cat eat,wet food gives her the poops
Linda
equalizer wrote in message
...
Or rather, Floppy has let me win.

The kittens will be 5 this April. Very early on Floppy decided he'd only
eat dry food. The other 2 and mom are fine with wet or dry, but I've
been forced to feed them all dry for the past 4 years because Floppy
refused the wet. I've tried all of the tricks over the years, including
fasting, and Floppy always called my bluff at the 48 hour mark when I
became afraid of inducing Lipidosis.

Well, last night I decided to try again. At their regular feeding time,
2AM, instead of the automatic feeder going off full of dry, I was awake
to give them a can of Wellness Chicken, one of the brands "cleared" by
Phil P. Not surprisingly, Floppy turned it down and I was pretty much
set to fail again. I talked to a vet before starting yesterday, and she
told me because of his weight, 48 hours would be unsafe to fast, and I
should go no longer than 24 hours. If he didn't eat, I was to give him
VERY small amounts of Wellness dry to maintain calorie intake and hunger
at the same time.

Well, 9 hours into it, I gave the others a little more wet as a snack,
which got Floppy wanting food. I presented him with the wet and he
predictably turned his nose up at it. I then decided I'd try the heating
approach again, and nuked it to warm it up. This time, unlike all the
other times, he actually sniffed it with interest without recoiling with
revulsion, but wouldn't eat it. I was stoked, so I decided to try the
tuna juice again, and poured some on there and nuked it again. This time
he actually got his face in there and licked around the mound of food,
licking up the tuna juice. Wow! I was amazed! So I kept at it,
re-warming the food and putting it back in front of him when it cooled
off to re-interest him, and he continued to lick around the food. Then,
I poured a bit of juice around the food again, and poured some OVER the
food as well, and nuked it. He licked around the food again, and then
began licking the juice off the food! Then the miracle happened -- he
began licking the food when the juice was gone, and slowly licked it up
-- over the course of 45 minutes and numerous re-heating's -- about a
tablespoon of food altogether!

Then, I fed the others at 2PM, and Floppy sniffed at it and walked away.
About an hour later I put a little more food (about a teaspoon) in his
dish and nuked it, but this time didn't add tuna juice. He went to town
on it! Then at about 4 he came looking for more, so I put about 2
tablespoons, right out of the fridge in the bowl and put it down. Know
what? He ate the whole freakin' thing, just like a normal cat!! I'm so
proud of him, and told him so as he ate!!

I hope this continues, because I'm really worried about keeping them on
a dry only diet. Having all of them eating canned will really make
things simpler in the long run. I'm now going to buy the other canned
varieties that Phil mentioned -- Hill's Turkey and Wysong Chicken, to
have a backup if Wellness goes to hell.

eq

equalizer wrote in message
...
Or rather, Floppy has let me win.

The kittens will be 5 this April. Very early on Floppy decided he'd only
eat dry food. The other 2 and mom are fine with wet or dry, but I've
been forced to feed them all dry for the past 4 years because Floppy
refused the wet. I've tried all of the tricks over the years, including
fasting, and Floppy always called my bluff at the 48 hour mark when I
became afraid of inducing Lipidosis.

Well, last night I decided to try again. At their regular feeding time,
2AM, instead of the automatic feeder going off full of dry, I was awake
to give them a can of Wellness Chicken, one of the brands "cleared" by
Phil P. Not surprisingly, Floppy turned it down and I was pretty much
set to fail again. I talked to a vet before starting yesterday, and she
told me because of his weight, 48 hours would be unsafe to fast, and I
should go no longer than 24 hours. If he didn't eat, I was to give him
VERY small amounts of Wellness dry to maintain calorie intake and hunger
at the same time.

Well, 9 hours into it, I gave the others a little more wet as a snack,
which got Floppy wanting food. I presented him with the wet and he
predictably turned his nose up at it. I then decided I'd try the heating
approach again, and nuked it to warm it up. This time, unlike all the
other times, he actually sniffed it with interest without recoiling with
revulsion, but wouldn't eat it. I was stoked, so I decided to try the
tuna juice again, and poured some on there and nuked it again. This time
he actually got his face in there and licked around the mound of food,
licking up the tuna juice. Wow! I was amazed! So I kept at it,
re-warming the food and putting it back in front of him when it cooled
off to re-interest him, and he continued to lick around the food. Then,
I poured a bit of juice around the food again, and poured some OVER the
food as well, and nuked it. He licked around the food again, and then
began licking the juice off the food! Then the miracle happened -- he
began licking the food when the juice was gone, and slowly licked it up
-- over the course of 45 minutes and numerous re-heating's -- about a
tablespoon of food altogether!

Then, I fed the others at 2PM, and Floppy sniffed at it and walked away.
About an hour later I put a little more food (about a teaspoon) in his
dish and nuked it, but this time didn't add tuna juice. He went to town
on it! Then at about 4 he came looking for more, so I put about 2
tablespoons, right out of the fridge in the bowl and put it down. Know
what? He ate the whole freakin' thing, just like a normal cat!!

He ate cold food? That's really amazing!


I'm so
proud of him, and told him so as he ate!!


You should be proud of yourself, too, for having the perseverance, patience,
and dedication to keep trying. I am. Many people try a few times and give
up. I hope your success inspires others to keep trying.



I hope this continues, because I'm really worried about keeping them on
a dry only diet. Having all of them eating canned will really make
things simpler in the long run. I'm now going to buy the other canned
varieties that Phil mentioned -- Hill's Turkey and Wysong Chicken, to
have a backup if Wellness goes to hell.

I wish Royal Canin Mature 28 was available in a canned version. Low
phosphorus and very low acidity + omega 3 - it would be an ideal
reno-protective diet if the same formulation came in cans. I've used this
food for renal cats who wouldn't eat or didn't do well on k/d. I whipped up
a canned diet out of it by grinding some up in my Kitchenaide and mixing in
pure chicken broth. Its also very easy to spike the potassium and N3s a bit
in the mix.

Another renoprotective diet is Hill's Prescription x/d. I feed that to all
early to midstage renal cats. These cats seemed to deterioate on k/d
because the protein content is too low for eary/midstage renal cats. You
wouldn't believe the turnaround some renal cats made on c/d-ox (now x/d)!
It contanis enough protein (41%) to feed to normal adults.

Older cats are more prone to CaOx crystals than struvite, so, Mature 28 and
x/d are ideal CaOx-protective diets as well. CaOx crystals are a real
danger because they can't be medically dissolved like struvite.

It seems like the increase in CRF coincides with shortly after the advent of
acidified 'urinary tract health' diets - so has the increase in CaOx
crystals. I think that acidity might play a large roll - over the longterm
(which hasn't been studied) in the development of CRF.

Ferals, before management, feed ad libitum - 8-12 or more mice a day, yet
don't have struvite or CaOx problems, and the ones that manage to survive to
8-10 years don't have any evidence of early CRF, diabetes or
hyperthyroidism. The few that die of renal/hepatic failure do so from
ingestion of antifreeze or some other reno/hepato-toxic substance (e.g.,
poisoned mice). Something to think about.

Anyway, Well Done!

Phil

equalizer wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 05:24:28 -0500, "Phil P."
wrote:

SNIP


Then, I fed the others at 2PM, and Floppy sniffed at it and walked
away.
About an hour later I put a little more food (about a teaspoon) in his
dish and nuked it, but this time didn't add tuna juice. He went to town
on it! Then at about 4 he came looking for more, so I put about 2
tablespoons, right out of the fridge in the bowl and put it down. Know
what? He ate the whole freakin' thing, just like a normal cat!!

He ate cold food? That's really amazing!


I'm so
proud of him, and told him so as he ate!!


You should be proud of yourself, too, for having the perseverance,
patience,
and dedication to keep trying. I am. Many people try a few times and
give
up. I hope your success inspires others to keep trying.



I don't know if I can really take any credit for it. I don't even
remember the last time I tried switching him, but it was more than a
year ago. I sort of decided spur of the moment to give it another try,
perhaps boosted by the recent threads on here dealing with dry food
issues.


The point is... you tried *again* and didn't give up. Now shut up about it
and accept the 'well done' - you deserve it! ;-



The real credit goes to Floppy, and the way his cat mind works.
I didn't do anything different than all the other times I've tried over
the years, he just out of the blue started accepting canned food. OK,
the only thing different this time was that I'm feeding him Wellness
chicken. Previously the only way to get him to eat wet food was to boil
chicken breast for exactly 10 minutes, and carefully shred it with 2
forks. That and canned tuna (but he wouldn't touch tuna cat food). So,
either this Wellness truly IS really good high quality chicken, or it's
the equivalent of Fancy Feast (cat McDonald's). The next test will be
trying to get him to eat other high quality brands. If I'd used Wellness
a year ago, would I have been successful? Who knows.


It would have been interesting if he refused Wellness in the past but
accepted it now. That might have suggested a change in formulation. OTOH,
its not unusual for a cat to go off a routine food and accept a novel one.
What's particulary interesting is that he suddenly accepted a different
texture. Texture preferences are very strongly influenced by the type of
food a cat was weaned on. Most shelters feed cats and kittens dry food due
to cost and labor limitations. That's why its so hard to switch cats to
canned food.




This morning I had several more breakthroughs. The first, I scooped a
tablespoon of cold right into his dish from the can an put it up on the
table. I told him he was getting chicken and he meowed excitedly and
jumped on the kitchen table where I've been feeding him to keep the
other cats away. He sniffed it and started to walk away. I was about to
nuke it, but just kept telling him it was chicken, and made "yum yum"
sounds. He kept coming back and sniffing a few times while I kept that
up, and then went to town on it. Then, when I wasn't looking one of the
other cats jumped up and started eating out of the bowl. Floppy didn't
walk away, but began sharing the bowl and they finished it.


One of my cats won't eat around my other cats, so, I have to feed her
separately in her 'special' place where my other cats can't get to her. I
think she was traumatized by other cats while eating in one of former homes.
Cats that had to compete for food are either fast eaters and/or gluttonous,
or they wait for the other cats to eat and leave before they'll eat.



Then, hopefully the big one. I filled up the auto feeder with a can of
wet and put the ice pack in the bottom of it and set it for 2PM. They're
pretty much conditioned now to come running at the sound of the lids
popping open, so I wanted to see if I could get him to start on his
normal feeding routine. But, when the other 3 went into the enclosure, I
decided to try an intermediate step. I was making coffee, and that
always brings Floppy into the kitchen to make me pay the "milk tax". So,
while I had him there alone, I asked him if he wanted chicken while I
was getting milk out of the fridge, which brought excited chirps. So, I
popped one of the covers of the feeder. He sniffed and started to walk
away. I made the "yum yum" sounds, and he sniffed one and went at it. He
didn't stop until he cleaned the entire tray out, and pretty much forgot
about his beloved milk while I was making the coffee!

So now, the only thing that remains is for him to come running and start
eating on his own when the feeder pops. But, at least I no longer have
to worry about fasting him to get him to eat.


It sure sounds like he's well on the way to a complete transition! You
might want to keep the dry food outta sight for awhile so he doesn't have a
'relapse".

Hopefully, your success will inspire others who are having difficulty
switching their cats over to canned to keep trying.

Whether you think so or not: *well done*!

Phil.

equalizer wrote in message
...
Another hurdle passed? --

It's 1 PM here. The feeder is set to open at the normal time -- 2PM.
Floppy has been walking into the kitchen and going over to the feeder,
and sniffing at it several times now. I think I may have created a
monster.

eq

Well? Its after 2 PM... Did he go for it, or what? You've got me in
suspense! LOL!

Phil

equalizer wrote in message
news
The picture I'd thought I'd never get:

http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/floppy_wet.jpg

He can't get enough of this stuff now -- when I take the can out of the
fridge, he goes nuts.

Yay, floppy!

equalizer wrote in message
news
The picture I'd thought I'd never get:

http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/floppy_wet.jpg

He can't get enough of this stuff now -- when I take the can out of the
fridge, he goes nuts.

Ain't that a pretty sight! Looks like you're gonna have to by a scale! LOL!
Not many people can say they went toe-to-toe with a cat over food and won!

Phil

equalizer wrote in message
news
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:52:45 GMT, "Phil P." wrote:


equalizer wrote in message
.. .
Another hurdle passed? --

It's 1 PM here. The feeder is set to open at the normal time -- 2PM.
Floppy has been walking into the kitchen and going over to the feeder,
and sniffing at it several times now. I think I may have created a
monster.

eq

Well? Its after 2 PM... Did he go for it, or what? You've got me in
suspense! LOL!

Phil



Yep -- 2PM came, and the other cats went for the feeder. Floppy stayed
out of the way as they ate, then went and got his share.

Yabba dabba doo! Success!



I've definitely
been over feeding him today, but I want to get him "addicted" to wet.


Once he's thoroughly transitioned, you might want to try introducing another
brand of canned so he doesn't develop a fixed food preference. The way
these petfood manufacturers keep trying to "improve" their diets by changing
the formulas, its always a good idea to have another food that you know
he'll accept waiting in the bullpen.

'Bet you're a happy dude!

Phil

"Diane L. Schirf" wrote in message
k.net...
In article ,
"Phil P." wrote:

One of my cats won't eat around my other cats, so, I have to feed her
separately in her 'special' place where my other cats can't get to her.
I
think she was traumatized by other cats while eating in one of former
homes.
Cats that had to compete for food are either fast eaters and/or
gluttonous,
or they wait for the other cats to eat and leave before they'll eat.

My friend had three cats she had trained to take turns. Honest. It was
bizarre. No. 1 would eat first out of her bowl. No. 2 would wait and
then eat out of hers. Same with 3. There should have been video.

I used to use a big round candy dish with 5 glass inserts; I'd put the same
food in all five bowls. They all wanted a little of the food in the other
cats' bowls - even though it was the same food. They kept nudging each
other over to the next bowl until they made a complete circle back to their
starting bowl! It was hilarious. Maybe I'll try it again and make a video
this time. I think it would get a lot of laughs.

Phil