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#21
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On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:04:02 -0700, Matthew Montchalin
wrote: On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, BarB wrote: Actually Ru wrote: |But are there enough usenet readers? That's all that really |matters. Why aren't the current r.p.cats.* groups satisfying |breeders as forums for their discussions? What are the problems |with those forums, and how will the proposed group help? What |kinds of problems might the proposed group create and how will |they be mitigated? BarB wrote: | |Some users believe all breeding of animals is immoral, not just |the back-yard breeder cranking out litter after litter for a quick |profit, but also the breeder working to improve the breed. How on earth is it possible to improve a breed without hybridizing? A breeder can improve the line by breeding to higher quality animals in the same breed or by testing and eliminating genetic defects in the line. Incidentally they can also ruin a line by trying for the more extreme features that have won shows. The flat face of a Persian is one example of over breeding that can cause respiratory and eye problems (blockage in the tear ducts). So is the narrow head on a Collie. New breeds are constantly being developed by cat and dog breeders to develop a certain look. Some are deliberate crosses and some are mutations. Eventually with work and luck some of these breeds will proceed to be registered purebreds with the cat organizations. The Himalayan is one such cross, with the points of a Siamese and the Persian face and coat. Is the breeder going to induce mutations instead? Usually these occur by accident and someone saves the line...the curly-coated Devon Rex, La Perm, Selkirk Rex, American Keuda to name a few. This is more than a rhetorical question, it's a quandary, because it requires someone, somewhere, to decide which set of cat genes, properly concentrated, constitute an approved 'breed.' See http://www.messybeast.com/workbreed.htm BarB |
#22
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On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, BarB wrote:
|On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:04:02 -0700, Matthew Montchalin wrote: | |On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, BarB wrote: | |Actually Ru wrote: | ||But are there enough usenet readers? That's all that really ||matters. Why aren't the current r.p.cats.* groups satisfying ||breeders as forums for their discussions? What are the problems ||with those forums, and how will the proposed group help? What ||kinds of problems might the proposed group create and how will ||they be mitigated? | |BarB wrote: || ||Some users believe all breeding of animals is immoral, not just ||the back-yard breeder cranking out litter after litter for a quick ||profit, but also the breeder working to improve the breed. | |How on earth is it possible to improve a breed without hybridizing? | |A breeder can improve the line by breeding to higher quality animals |in the same breed or by testing and eliminating genetic defects in the |line. That presumes some degree of genetic 'spread' within the breed in question, then. |Incidentally they can also ruin a line by trying for the more |extreme features that have won shows. The flat face of a Persian |is one example of over breeding that can cause respiratory and eye |problems (blockage in the tear ducts). So is the narrow head on a |Collie. Those are good illustrations. |New breeds are constantly being developed by cat and dog breeders |to develop a certain look. Some are deliberate crosses and some are |mutations. Eventually with work and luck some of these breeds will |proceed to be registered purebreds with the cat organizations. The |Himalayan is one such cross, with the points of a Siamese and the |Persian face and coat. Which 'registrars' (if we shall coin a term) do you think are acceptable? Doesn't this vary according to public opinion? It's not like any particular 'registry' of pedigrees is maintained by any given state, is there? |Is the breeder going to induce mutations instead? | |Usually these occur by accident and someone saves the line...the |curly-coated Devon Rex, La Perm, Selkirk Rex, American Keuda to |name a few. I'll look into that. |This is more than a rhetorical question, it's a quandary, because |it requires someone, somewhere, to decide which set of cat genes, |properly concentrated, constitute an approved 'breed.' | |See http://www.messybeast.com/workbreed.htm Sorry, I don't like going to sites. They tend to be down by the time I get around to going there. |
#23
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On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, BarB wrote:
|On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:04:02 -0700, Matthew Montchalin wrote: | |On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, BarB wrote: | |Actually Ru wrote: | ||But are there enough usenet readers? That's all that really ||matters. Why aren't the current r.p.cats.* groups satisfying ||breeders as forums for their discussions? What are the problems ||with those forums, and how will the proposed group help? What ||kinds of problems might the proposed group create and how will ||they be mitigated? | |BarB wrote: || ||Some users believe all breeding of animals is immoral, not just ||the back-yard breeder cranking out litter after litter for a quick ||profit, but also the breeder working to improve the breed. | |How on earth is it possible to improve a breed without hybridizing? | |A breeder can improve the line by breeding to higher quality animals |in the same breed or by testing and eliminating genetic defects in the |line. That presumes some degree of genetic 'spread' within the breed in question, then. |Incidentally they can also ruin a line by trying for the more |extreme features that have won shows. The flat face of a Persian |is one example of over breeding that can cause respiratory and eye |problems (blockage in the tear ducts). So is the narrow head on a |Collie. Those are good illustrations. |New breeds are constantly being developed by cat and dog breeders |to develop a certain look. Some are deliberate crosses and some are |mutations. Eventually with work and luck some of these breeds will |proceed to be registered purebreds with the cat organizations. The |Himalayan is one such cross, with the points of a Siamese and the |Persian face and coat. Which 'registrars' (if we shall coin a term) do you think are acceptable? Doesn't this vary according to public opinion? It's not like any particular 'registry' of pedigrees is maintained by any given state, is there? |Is the breeder going to induce mutations instead? | |Usually these occur by accident and someone saves the line...the |curly-coated Devon Rex, La Perm, Selkirk Rex, American Keuda to |name a few. I'll look into that. |This is more than a rhetorical question, it's a quandary, because |it requires someone, somewhere, to decide which set of cat genes, |properly concentrated, constitute an approved 'breed.' | |See http://www.messybeast.com/workbreed.htm Sorry, I don't like going to sites. They tend to be down by the time I get around to going there. |
#24
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On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, BarB wrote:
|On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:04:02 -0700, Matthew Montchalin wrote: | |On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, BarB wrote: | |Actually Ru wrote: | ||But are there enough usenet readers? That's all that really ||matters. Why aren't the current r.p.cats.* groups satisfying ||breeders as forums for their discussions? What are the problems ||with those forums, and how will the proposed group help? What ||kinds of problems might the proposed group create and how will ||they be mitigated? | |BarB wrote: || ||Some users believe all breeding of animals is immoral, not just ||the back-yard breeder cranking out litter after litter for a quick ||profit, but also the breeder working to improve the breed. | |How on earth is it possible to improve a breed without hybridizing? | |A breeder can improve the line by breeding to higher quality animals |in the same breed or by testing and eliminating genetic defects in the |line. That presumes some degree of genetic 'spread' within the breed in question, then. |Incidentally they can also ruin a line by trying for the more |extreme features that have won shows. The flat face of a Persian |is one example of over breeding that can cause respiratory and eye |problems (blockage in the tear ducts). So is the narrow head on a |Collie. Those are good illustrations. |New breeds are constantly being developed by cat and dog breeders |to develop a certain look. Some are deliberate crosses and some are |mutations. Eventually with work and luck some of these breeds will |proceed to be registered purebreds with the cat organizations. The |Himalayan is one such cross, with the points of a Siamese and the |Persian face and coat. Which 'registrars' (if we shall coin a term) do you think are acceptable? Doesn't this vary according to public opinion? It's not like any particular 'registry' of pedigrees is maintained by any given state, is there? |Is the breeder going to induce mutations instead? | |Usually these occur by accident and someone saves the line...the |curly-coated Devon Rex, La Perm, Selkirk Rex, American Keuda to |name a few. I'll look into that. |This is more than a rhetorical question, it's a quandary, because |it requires someone, somewhere, to decide which set of cat genes, |properly concentrated, constitute an approved 'breed.' | |See http://www.messybeast.com/workbreed.htm Sorry, I don't like going to sites. They tend to be down by the time I get around to going there. |
#25
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On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, BarB wrote:
|How on earth is it possible to improve a breed without hybridizing? | |A breeder can improve the line by breeding to higher quality animals in |the same breed or by testing and eliminating genetic defects in the |line. Incidentally they can also ruin a line by trying for the more |extreme features that have won shows. The flat face of a Persian is one |example of over breeding that can cause respiratory and eye problems |(blockage in the tear ducts). So is the narrow head on a Collie. | |New breeds are constantly being developed by cat and dog breeders |to develop a certain look. I believe it has been shown that larger cats are not only stronger than smaller cats, but smarter. So, although it may be an error to associate body size with the psychological profile of any given cat breed, improvement of a cat's intellect (or personality) is just as desirable as improving a cat's physique. It's just a whole lot harder to describe a psychological profile than it is to describe a cat's physical appearance. Some psychologists use 3D graphics to describe attraction/panic/flight responses in some animals, but whether those are appropriate to describe an entire breed, is debatable. |Some are deliberate crosses and some are mutations. Eventually with |work and luck some of these breeds will proceed to be registered |purebreds with the cat organizations. Which organizations are to be approved of? The charter doesn't seem to mention this. |The Himalayan is one such cross, with the points of a Siamese and |the Persian face and coat. |
#26
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On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, BarB wrote:
|How on earth is it possible to improve a breed without hybridizing? | |A breeder can improve the line by breeding to higher quality animals in |the same breed or by testing and eliminating genetic defects in the |line. Incidentally they can also ruin a line by trying for the more |extreme features that have won shows. The flat face of a Persian is one |example of over breeding that can cause respiratory and eye problems |(blockage in the tear ducts). So is the narrow head on a Collie. | |New breeds are constantly being developed by cat and dog breeders |to develop a certain look. I believe it has been shown that larger cats are not only stronger than smaller cats, but smarter. So, although it may be an error to associate body size with the psychological profile of any given cat breed, improvement of a cat's intellect (or personality) is just as desirable as improving a cat's physique. It's just a whole lot harder to describe a psychological profile than it is to describe a cat's physical appearance. Some psychologists use 3D graphics to describe attraction/panic/flight responses in some animals, but whether those are appropriate to describe an entire breed, is debatable. |Some are deliberate crosses and some are mutations. Eventually with |work and luck some of these breeds will proceed to be registered |purebreds with the cat organizations. Which organizations are to be approved of? The charter doesn't seem to mention this. |The Himalayan is one such cross, with the points of a Siamese and |the Persian face and coat. |
#27
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On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, BarB wrote:
|How on earth is it possible to improve a breed without hybridizing? | |A breeder can improve the line by breeding to higher quality animals in |the same breed or by testing and eliminating genetic defects in the |line. Incidentally they can also ruin a line by trying for the more |extreme features that have won shows. The flat face of a Persian is one |example of over breeding that can cause respiratory and eye problems |(blockage in the tear ducts). So is the narrow head on a Collie. | |New breeds are constantly being developed by cat and dog breeders |to develop a certain look. I believe it has been shown that larger cats are not only stronger than smaller cats, but smarter. So, although it may be an error to associate body size with the psychological profile of any given cat breed, improvement of a cat's intellect (or personality) is just as desirable as improving a cat's physique. It's just a whole lot harder to describe a psychological profile than it is to describe a cat's physical appearance. Some psychologists use 3D graphics to describe attraction/panic/flight responses in some animals, but whether those are appropriate to describe an entire breed, is debatable. |Some are deliberate crosses and some are mutations. Eventually with |work and luck some of these breeds will proceed to be registered |purebreds with the cat organizations. Which organizations are to be approved of? The charter doesn't seem to mention this. |The Himalayan is one such cross, with the points of a Siamese and |the Persian face and coat. |
#28
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I believe it has been shown that larger cats are not only stronger
than smaller cats, but smarter. Shown by whom, and please cite your sources, because that statement sounds like total BS to me. There is no benefit to breeding "large" cats, except for owner preference. I do not believe there is any correlation between size an intellect. Sherry |
#29
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I believe it has been shown that larger cats are not only stronger
than smaller cats, but smarter. Shown by whom, and please cite your sources, because that statement sounds like total BS to me. There is no benefit to breeding "large" cats, except for owner preference. I do not believe there is any correlation between size an intellect. Sherry |
#30
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I believe it has been shown that larger cats are not only stronger
than smaller cats, but smarter. Shown by whom, and please cite your sources, because that statement sounds like total BS to me. There is no benefit to breeding "large" cats, except for owner preference. I do not believe there is any correlation between size an intellect. Sherry |
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