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Outdoor cat poisoning - report back



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 5th 05, 02:21 AM
Meghan Noecker
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"Ashley" wrote in message
...
OK, as promised, I quizzed the vet, who was most helpful. His response:



Rat poison is also not an issue in New Zealand. There are two aspects to
this. 1. Cats won't eat rat poisons. 2. The older rat poisons started

having
a secondary effect only at the level of about 5 rats - ie, cats would have
to eat 5 rats in a row before they started getting any ill effects, and
those effects would not be fatal at that level of consumption. Some of the
newer poisons being developed do have secondary effects at lower levels,

but
New Zealand regulations keep those poisons out of the country.


I'm replying to this one since i missed the original post.

This is interesting to hear. Is it possible to get more information on
the rat poison? Here, it is very common for poisoned animals to then
poison animals further up the food chain. The poison adds up and
kills. I am curious to know if we use a stronger poison than
neceesary, or something completely different. It seems odd that a
something that will kill a hardy rat would not hurt a cat. 5 adult
rats here would easily weigh as much as my smaller cats. I would think
one poisoned rat could easily make my cat sick.

And considering that rat poison is usually put inside some form of
bait, I would think it would be enticing to cats as well.

--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
  #12  
Old April 5th 05, 02:21 AM
Ashley
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"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
"Ashley" wrote in message
...

They're also more likely to find themselves on mood-altering drugs and

have
their claws lopped off.


OK, now we've come full circle - you've just confirmed yourself a troll.


Because? Are you debating that treatment of cats with mood-altering drugs,
and declawing, is more common with indoor cats? The reality is: it is. Did
you read the link I provided?


Have you *read* any of my other posts in this group??


I read many of your posts. I am not saying *you* do this to *your* cats. I
am saying it is more common among indoor cats. Which it is.


  #13  
Old April 5th 05, 02:22 AM
Ashley
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"Diane L. Schirf" wrote in message
k.net...
In article ,
"Ashley" wrote:

http://www.fabcats.org/inorout.html


"But on the down side, indoor cats are also more likely to suffer
psychologically and develop behavioural problems than those allowed
outside."

It'd be nice if they'd cite some sources. Any sources.

"* Behavioural problems - Cats in the USA have a much higher incidence
of anxiety-related problems such as urine marking than cats in the UK ,
possibly because British cats are allowed out more whereas in the USA
they are more commonly kept permanently indoors. There are many
stress-linked psychological problems in indoor cats."

Source? Just one? One peer-reviewed study. Please?

Maybe I should put up a cat page with unreferenced assertions and be an
authority, too.


Maybe you could email them and ask for references. The page is written as a
public information service, not as a scientific paper. The two tend to
follow different conventions. I have no doubt at all that if you asked for
references they would be provided.



  #14  
Old April 5th 05, 02:23 AM
Meghan Noecker
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On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:20:38 +1200, "Ashley"
wrote:


He's not impressed. That doesn't mean he's telling you what to do - which
appears to be a concept a few posters here have difficulty with. He would do
it differently, that doesn't mean you have to.


Has he lived here? Most of my vets keep their cats inside. When I told
my vet that the new cat used to be an outdoor cat, she told me she
takes her cats out on a leash.

I'm sure that a vet seeing the same problems day in and day out would
take actions to prevent their cats from the same fate.


--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
  #15  
Old April 5th 05, 02:25 AM
Meghan Noecker
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On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:53:31 +1200, "Ashley"
wrote:



You still don't get it, do you? I am not in the United States. My cats do
not face the dangers cats in the United States face. The world outside your
borders is different.


Is New Zealand a bubble?

Honestly, there are areas in the US that are just as remote as where
you live, and I wouldn't let my cat outside there either.


--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
  #16  
Old April 5th 05, 02:33 AM
CatNipped
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"Ashley" wrote in message
...

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...


Ashley, I don't need to read anything on this subject. Unlike some I

have
two assets which tell me what to do about my cats regarding keeping them
in
or letting them out, they're called common sense and observational

skills.


You still don't get it, do you? I am not in the United States. My cats do
not face the dangers cats in the United States face. The world outside

your
borders is different.

I have no objection to you managing your cats and keeping them safe in the
way that you think is best for your environment. I can understand that in
some of the environments described, it would be best to keep cats inside.
What I *do* object to is people who, based on their experiences of their
environments, then extrapolate to the fanatical, immovable belief that all
cats in all environments should be kept indoors. That is plain ignorance.

What I also object to is the unwillinginess to even consider that the

world
is not all as you see it from your window.


Now you're backtracking? You said in other posts that there *are* risks in
NZ, but you're willing to take those risks for your cats (how kind of you).

Tell me that there are no cars in NZ. Tell me that there are no sicko cat
torturers in NZ. Tell me that there are no poisons available in NZ. Tell
me that there are *NO* dangers to outdoor cats in NZ. Tell me any of that
and I'll know you're lying.

*YOU* still don't get it. *I'M* not willing to take *ANY* risks with my
cats, no matter how remote they may be. *I* would be devastated if *I* let
something happen to my cats because *I* was too lazy to interact with them,
play with them, keep them amused and happy and, oh yeah, clean their
litterboxes twice a cay!

Hugs,

CatNipped


  #17  
Old April 5th 05, 02:54 AM
Ashley
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"Meghan Noecker" wrote in message
...


I'm replying to this one since i missed the original post.

This is interesting to hear. Is it possible to get more information on
the rat poison?


I'll try to remember to ask the vet when Tahi and I are back next week for
the 4th and (hopefully) final injection.

Here, it is very common for poisoned animals to then
poison animals further up the food chain. The poison adds up and
kills. I am curious to know if we use a stronger poison than
neceesary, or something completely different. It seems odd that a
something that will kill a hardy rat would not hurt a cat. 5 adult
rats here would easily weigh as much as my smaller cats.


But the rats would have metabolised much of the poison before they died. I
suspect if you gave a cat the amount of poison that the rats ate, without
the rats as the inbetween stage, your cat would have significant problems.


I would think
one poisoned rat could easily make my cat sick.

And considering that rat poison is usually put inside some form of
bait, I would think it would be enticing to cats as well.


Mostly, here, non-meat baits are used in any kind of rodent control - fruit,
peanut butter, that kind of thing. One of the major reasons being that
people want to catch rats, not cats or dogs.


  #18  
Old April 5th 05, 02:56 AM
Ashley
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"Meghan Noecker" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:20:38 +1200, "Ashley"
wrote:


He's not impressed. That doesn't mean he's telling you what to do - which
appears to be a concept a few posters here have difficulty with. He would
do
it differently, that doesn't mean you have to.


Has he lived here? Most of my vets keep their cats inside. When I told
my vet that the new cat used to be an outdoor cat, she told me she
takes her cats out on a leash.

I'm sure that a vet seeing the same problems day in and day out would
take actions to prevent their cats from the same fate.


As far as I can ascertain, he's only lived in South Africa (where he's from)
Britain and here. Yes, very possibly if he lived there, he would feel
differently. Which would just go to show that real experience of the actual
dangers in different environments leads to different opinions.




  #19  
Old April 5th 05, 02:57 AM
Ashley
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"Meghan Noecker" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:53:31 +1200, "Ashley"
wrote:



You still don't get it, do you? I am not in the United States. My cats do
not face the dangers cats in the United States face. The world outside
your
borders is different.


Is New Zealand a bubble?


Ecologically? Yes. Read the links I posted.


Honestly, there are areas in the US that are just as remote as where
you live, and I wouldn't let my cat outside there either.


And they have US ecology.


  #20  
Old April 5th 05, 03:01 AM
Ashley
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"CatNipped" wrote in message
...


Now you're backtracking?


Nope.

You said in other posts that there *are* risks in
NZ, but you're willing to take those risks for your cats (how kind of
you).


Because those risks are minimal.

Tell me that there are no cars in NZ. Tell me that there are no sicko cat
torturers in NZ. Tell me that there are no poisons available in NZ. Tell
me that there are *NO* dangers to outdoor cats in NZ. Tell me any of that
and I'll know you're lying.


Why would I tell you that? That would make a lie of everything I've posted.
What I *will* tell you is that the dangers to cats in New Zealand are
smaller by several degrees of magnitude than the risks you and other posters
have described he there are no wildlife dangers to cats in New Zealand;
anti-freeze is not an issue; there is no rabies; dogs must be contained on
their owners' properties so roaming dogs are few and far between; the risk
of being hit by a car can be drastically cut by keeping your cat inside at
night. This is all true and can be verified by any independent source you
wish to consult.

*YOU* still don't get it. *I'M* not willing to take *ANY* risks with my
cats, no matter how remote they may be. *I* would be devastated if *I*
let
something happen to my cats because *I* was too lazy to interact with
them,
play with them, keep them amused and happy and, oh yeah, clean their
litterboxes twice a cay!


And you prove exactly my point. You are extraordinarily risk averse. You
impose that risk aversion on your cats. I choose not to live in fear.


 




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