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  #284  
Old August 19th 03, 02:51 PM
kaeli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
enlightened us with...
kaeli wrote in


In article ,
enlightened us with...

If toes are all the same, why aren't dogs routinely declawed?


Dogs, cats, and humans all have bones in their toes. Sorry if that's
news to you.


Because they don't use their claws the same way cats do.


You mean they don't scratch?


No, I mean they don't use their claws the same as cats do. Cats scratch
much differently than dogs, or hadn't you noticed?

Of course they do. They can cause more
damage with their claws than a cat. They scratch the furniture when
they make a "bed", they dig holes in yards, they scratch people just by
jumping on them.


Um, a trained dog does none of these things.
A trained cat must still scratch something.

Do I really need to explain that to you or were you being
purposefully disingenuous?


There are many reasons why people want their dogs declawed. If vets
did everything their clients asked, there would be declawed dogs
running around. There's a reason that surgery isn't done.


What reason might that be?
Declawing a cat does damage to the cat. Declawing a dog would do damage
as well. Since one may damage a cat, why not a dog?

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Why do people who know the least know it the loudest?
If that cell phone was up your a$$, maybe you could
drive a little better!
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------
  #285  
Old August 19th 03, 02:51 PM
kaeli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
enlightened us with...
kaeli wrote in


In article ,
enlightened us with...

If toes are all the same, why aren't dogs routinely declawed?


Dogs, cats, and humans all have bones in their toes. Sorry if that's
news to you.


Because they don't use their claws the same way cats do.


You mean they don't scratch?


No, I mean they don't use their claws the same as cats do. Cats scratch
much differently than dogs, or hadn't you noticed?

Of course they do. They can cause more
damage with their claws than a cat. They scratch the furniture when
they make a "bed", they dig holes in yards, they scratch people just by
jumping on them.


Um, a trained dog does none of these things.
A trained cat must still scratch something.

Do I really need to explain that to you or were you being
purposefully disingenuous?


There are many reasons why people want their dogs declawed. If vets
did everything their clients asked, there would be declawed dogs
running around. There's a reason that surgery isn't done.


What reason might that be?
Declawing a cat does damage to the cat. Declawing a dog would do damage
as well. Since one may damage a cat, why not a dog?

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Why do people who know the least know it the loudest?
If that cell phone was up your a$$, maybe you could
drive a little better!
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------
  #286  
Old August 19th 03, 04:12 PM
No One But Me
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

another tree hugger speaks

"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message
...
Sherry wrote:
I am not going to apologize for helping my sister get booger
declawed.
This was an unusual case of a cat that tended to swipe more than any
cat I've ever known... It will also protect the adults.

K.


"Protecting the adults." Yeah. You're doing more dancing than Michael
Jackson now. And the more you post, the more it becomes apparent you,
or your family, should never have cats at all. Twenty cats on a back
porch does not a rescuer make. You don't understand cats. You don't
seem to have much sense *or** compassion for the species at all. The
defanging remark you make was the icing on the cake. You're painting
a picture and expecting us to believe this cat is comparable to a
bobcat or something. This poor cat is, in my opinion, probably
traumatized and abused, and protecting itself.


That's what I was thinking. And again, I wouldn't let a child of that age
play with a *mellow* cat unsupervised, lest it pull its tail or fur and

the
cat lash out in pain - which is something even people do reflexively
sometimes without meaning to - so why was a cat already known to be
agressive allowed anywhere *near* enough to the child to do that? Not to
mention, as I've said before, because the owner apparently didn't bother

to
try and speak to the vet or a behaviorist about the underlying cause (at
least, nothing was said about them ever having sought alternatives to the
'easy answer' of declawing), the cat will still be aggressive, probably

even
more so, only will now likely resort to teeth instead of claws.

You seem not to understand the ramifications when you say the surgery will
not matter to a cat kept indoors; it affects the cat's ability to walk
comfortably, without muscle aches, and can often cause muscle atrophy and
skeletal problems, not to mention psychological trauma to the animal.

Your
saying this cat 'deserved' to be declawed shows an attitude of vengance

that
is inappropriate towards an animal that cannot express it's unhappiness in
any other way. If you or your sister cared enough to try and find out why
the cat had been so agitated for so long, perhaps you would have a

mellower
cat, and an unwounded child in the bargain.

In any case, declawing an agressive cat is like taking asprin for a brain
tumor; it may temporarily get rid of the headache, but does nothing to
remove the source of the problem. If my cat was acting like that, I would
do everything I could to find out why and insure that the cat be somehow
made to feel comfortable and content, so it wouldn't need to be bitchy,

and
I wouldn't need to get bitchy back, and do anything to harm it. If your

kid
was acting out, you wouldn't just chain them in their room, you would get
them some counselling, preferably family counselling together, talk to

them,
find out why they were so unhappy (at least if you were a decent parent

you
would). Just getting ****y and punishing them wouldn't improve the
situation, and it doesn't work for cats, either. They are viable,

sentient,
feeling beings just like us, and don't deserve to be treated like monsters
when they're have problems.

Ann

--

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bewtifulfreak







  #287  
Old August 19th 03, 04:12 PM
No One But Me
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

another tree hugger speaks

"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message
...
Sherry wrote:
I am not going to apologize for helping my sister get booger
declawed.
This was an unusual case of a cat that tended to swipe more than any
cat I've ever known... It will also protect the adults.

K.


"Protecting the adults." Yeah. You're doing more dancing than Michael
Jackson now. And the more you post, the more it becomes apparent you,
or your family, should never have cats at all. Twenty cats on a back
porch does not a rescuer make. You don't understand cats. You don't
seem to have much sense *or** compassion for the species at all. The
defanging remark you make was the icing on the cake. You're painting
a picture and expecting us to believe this cat is comparable to a
bobcat or something. This poor cat is, in my opinion, probably
traumatized and abused, and protecting itself.


That's what I was thinking. And again, I wouldn't let a child of that age
play with a *mellow* cat unsupervised, lest it pull its tail or fur and

the
cat lash out in pain - which is something even people do reflexively
sometimes without meaning to - so why was a cat already known to be
agressive allowed anywhere *near* enough to the child to do that? Not to
mention, as I've said before, because the owner apparently didn't bother

to
try and speak to the vet or a behaviorist about the underlying cause (at
least, nothing was said about them ever having sought alternatives to the
'easy answer' of declawing), the cat will still be aggressive, probably

even
more so, only will now likely resort to teeth instead of claws.

You seem not to understand the ramifications when you say the surgery will
not matter to a cat kept indoors; it affects the cat's ability to walk
comfortably, without muscle aches, and can often cause muscle atrophy and
skeletal problems, not to mention psychological trauma to the animal.

Your
saying this cat 'deserved' to be declawed shows an attitude of vengance

that
is inappropriate towards an animal that cannot express it's unhappiness in
any other way. If you or your sister cared enough to try and find out why
the cat had been so agitated for so long, perhaps you would have a

mellower
cat, and an unwounded child in the bargain.

In any case, declawing an agressive cat is like taking asprin for a brain
tumor; it may temporarily get rid of the headache, but does nothing to
remove the source of the problem. If my cat was acting like that, I would
do everything I could to find out why and insure that the cat be somehow
made to feel comfortable and content, so it wouldn't need to be bitchy,

and
I wouldn't need to get bitchy back, and do anything to harm it. If your

kid
was acting out, you wouldn't just chain them in their room, you would get
them some counselling, preferably family counselling together, talk to

them,
find out why they were so unhappy (at least if you were a decent parent

you
would). Just getting ****y and punishing them wouldn't improve the
situation, and it doesn't work for cats, either. They are viable,

sentient,
feeling beings just like us, and don't deserve to be treated like monsters
when they're have problems.

Ann

--

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bewtifulfreak







  #288  
Old August 19th 03, 04:26 PM
No One But Me
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message
...
Sherry wrote:
I am not going to apologize for helping my sister get booger
declawed.
This was an unusual case of a cat that tended to swipe more than any
cat I've ever known... It will also protect the adults.

K.


"Protecting the adults." Yeah. You're doing more dancing than Michael
Jackson now. And the more you post, the more it becomes apparent you,
or your family, should never have cats at all. Twenty cats on a back
porch does not a rescuer make. You don't understand cats. You don't
seem to have much sense *or** compassion for the species at all. The
defanging remark you make was the icing on the cake. You're painting
a picture and expecting us to believe this cat is comparable to a
bobcat or something. This poor cat is, in my opinion, probably
traumatized and abused, and protecting itself.


get over it. you're reading way too much into a single remark. sounds like
you don't understand them either.
and just who are you to say someone should or shouldn't have a pet? do you
know them? have you evaluated their family? have you checked their home?
have you inspected their pets?

probably not. just shooting off your mouth about something you know nothing
about.

That's what I was thinking. And again, I wouldn't let a child of that age
play with a *mellow* cat unsupervised, lest it pull its tail or fur and

the
cat lash out in pain - which is something even people do reflexively


sounds like that child needs some discipline to me. perhaps a spanking???
hmmm

sometimes without meaning to - so why was a cat already known to be
agressive allowed anywhere *near* enough to the child to do that? Not to
mention, as I've said before, because the owner apparently didn't bother

to
try and speak to the vet or a behaviorist about the underlying cause (at
least, nothing was said about them ever having sought alternatives to the
'easy answer' of declawing), the cat will still be aggressive, probably

even
more so, only will now likely resort to teeth instead of claws.


oh, so now we have to be willing to take a cat to a behavioral psychologist?
please. get a grip. declaw the cat. the cat will not care in the long run.

You seem not to understand the ramifications when you say the surgery will
not matter to a cat kept indoors; it affects the cat's ability to walk
comfortably, without muscle aches, and can often cause muscle atrophy and
skeletal problems, not to mention psychological trauma to the animal.

Your
saying this cat 'deserved' to be declawed shows an attitude of vengance

that
is inappropriate towards an animal that cannot express it's unhappiness in
any other way. If you or your sister cared enough to try and find out why
the cat had been so agitated for so long, perhaps you would have a

mellower
cat, and an unwounded child in the bargain.


and you got your medical degree from where? i have 2 declawed pets & neither
of them exhibit any of the symptoms you claim. NONE. you are seriously
overstepping your bounds. advice is one thing. claiming to be an authority
is quite another.

In any case, declawing an agressive cat is like taking asprin for a brain
tumor; it may temporarily get rid of the headache, but does nothing to
remove the source of the problem. If my cat was acting like that, I would
do everything I could to find out why and insure that the cat be somehow
made to feel comfortable and content, so it wouldn't need to be bitchy,

and

some cats are just bitchy or crabby. there is little that can be done about
it. mine get agitated? i medicate them.

I wouldn't need to get bitchy back, and do anything to harm it. If your

kid
was acting out, you wouldn't just chain them in their room, you would get
them some counselling, preferably family counselling together, talk to

them,
find out why they were so unhappy (at least if you were a decent parent

you
would). Just getting ****y and punishing them wouldn't improve the
situation, and it doesn't work for cats, either. They are viable,

sentient,
feeling beings just like us, and don't deserve to be treated like monsters
when they're have problems.


you have serious problems woman. punching? family counseling? that is just
bull****. i know of no one that counseling has actually helped. just a bunch
of tree hugging hoo-doo. discipline is what children need not tree hugging.

barbara


  #289  
Old August 19th 03, 04:26 PM
No One But Me
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message
...
Sherry wrote:
I am not going to apologize for helping my sister get booger
declawed.
This was an unusual case of a cat that tended to swipe more than any
cat I've ever known... It will also protect the adults.

K.


"Protecting the adults." Yeah. You're doing more dancing than Michael
Jackson now. And the more you post, the more it becomes apparent you,
or your family, should never have cats at all. Twenty cats on a back
porch does not a rescuer make. You don't understand cats. You don't
seem to have much sense *or** compassion for the species at all. The
defanging remark you make was the icing on the cake. You're painting
a picture and expecting us to believe this cat is comparable to a
bobcat or something. This poor cat is, in my opinion, probably
traumatized and abused, and protecting itself.


get over it. you're reading way too much into a single remark. sounds like
you don't understand them either.
and just who are you to say someone should or shouldn't have a pet? do you
know them? have you evaluated their family? have you checked their home?
have you inspected their pets?

probably not. just shooting off your mouth about something you know nothing
about.

That's what I was thinking. And again, I wouldn't let a child of that age
play with a *mellow* cat unsupervised, lest it pull its tail or fur and

the
cat lash out in pain - which is something even people do reflexively


sounds like that child needs some discipline to me. perhaps a spanking???
hmmm

sometimes without meaning to - so why was a cat already known to be
agressive allowed anywhere *near* enough to the child to do that? Not to
mention, as I've said before, because the owner apparently didn't bother

to
try and speak to the vet or a behaviorist about the underlying cause (at
least, nothing was said about them ever having sought alternatives to the
'easy answer' of declawing), the cat will still be aggressive, probably

even
more so, only will now likely resort to teeth instead of claws.


oh, so now we have to be willing to take a cat to a behavioral psychologist?
please. get a grip. declaw the cat. the cat will not care in the long run.

You seem not to understand the ramifications when you say the surgery will
not matter to a cat kept indoors; it affects the cat's ability to walk
comfortably, without muscle aches, and can often cause muscle atrophy and
skeletal problems, not to mention psychological trauma to the animal.

Your
saying this cat 'deserved' to be declawed shows an attitude of vengance

that
is inappropriate towards an animal that cannot express it's unhappiness in
any other way. If you or your sister cared enough to try and find out why
the cat had been so agitated for so long, perhaps you would have a

mellower
cat, and an unwounded child in the bargain.


and you got your medical degree from where? i have 2 declawed pets & neither
of them exhibit any of the symptoms you claim. NONE. you are seriously
overstepping your bounds. advice is one thing. claiming to be an authority
is quite another.

In any case, declawing an agressive cat is like taking asprin for a brain
tumor; it may temporarily get rid of the headache, but does nothing to
remove the source of the problem. If my cat was acting like that, I would
do everything I could to find out why and insure that the cat be somehow
made to feel comfortable and content, so it wouldn't need to be bitchy,

and

some cats are just bitchy or crabby. there is little that can be done about
it. mine get agitated? i medicate them.

I wouldn't need to get bitchy back, and do anything to harm it. If your

kid
was acting out, you wouldn't just chain them in their room, you would get
them some counselling, preferably family counselling together, talk to

them,
find out why they were so unhappy (at least if you were a decent parent

you
would). Just getting ****y and punishing them wouldn't improve the
situation, and it doesn't work for cats, either. They are viable,

sentient,
feeling beings just like us, and don't deserve to be treated like monsters
when they're have problems.


you have serious problems woman. punching? family counseling? that is just
bull****. i know of no one that counseling has actually helped. just a bunch
of tree hugging hoo-doo. discipline is what children need not tree hugging.

barbara


  #290  
Old August 19th 03, 05:03 PM
Katra
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Karen Chuplis wrote:

in article , Cathouse at
wrote on 8/19/03 6:38 AM:

) wrote in
om

Cathouse wrote in message
...
) wrote in
om

Cathouse wrote in message
...
Katra wrote in



Yes, they should, but a 12 to 14 month old baby is NOT old
enough to be told "no" so has to be protected from overly
aggressive cats.

I am not going to apologize for helping my sister get booger
declawed. This was an unusual case of a cat that tended to
swipe more than any cat I've ever known... It will also
protect the adults.

I had Max declawed because of aggression. But not because he
scratched me, I get scratched all the time anyway.

He was rough with the other cats. Not mean, really, he just
played hard. He tackles with such force, they make a loud
thunk when they hit the floor. Occassionally, one gets it's
nose scratched, but he's not the only one that does that.

Unfortunately, Max doesn't get along with the dog. They never
have liked each other. The dog will just be standing next to
the couch and here comes Max, slinking out from behind it.
Then he jumps on the end table and smacks the dog in the face.
He got him in the eye once and almost blinded him.

Max laughed at the Soft Paws and chewed them off in two days.
Nail trimming? Out of the question. He howls, kicks, bites,
claws...by the end of it, he's panting. To keep his nails
dull, this needed to be done once a week.

Trying to keep from declawing him caused more stress than
declawing him. So, he had the laser surgery. His paws were
never tender and he's never had any trouble. In fact, he
behaves exactly as he did before. Except now, he can't put
anybody's eye out.

Thank you. :-)

Katra

Did you notice that there were no comments from the peanut
gallery?

Yes, I did notice...
I got raked over the coals for helping my sister to declaw ONE
cat, while caring for 36 others without even considering the
surgery. This post by someone else got ignored.

What's up with that?


It was my post. They must be afraid of me.


Hey, Katra, did you even THINK of trying Soft Paws?

Karen


He chewed them off...

K.

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