Trap, Neuter, and Release: Bad for Cats, Disaster for Birds (HD)

On Aug 18, 1:59*pm, jmc wrote:
Suddenly, without warning, calvin exclaimed (8/18/2009 10:42 AM):

On Aug 18, 10:34 am, dgk wrote:
Actually I was thinking that. My cats do kill some birds each year -
one got nailed over the weekend. ...

With my cats, it has always been when they were young
that they caught birds, and even (amazingly) a few squirrels.
After age two or so, if I remember correctly, their urge to
stalk these creatures has declined considerably.

Lol, the birds around here have Meep's number, for sure. *Due to issues
with her hind legs, she can't really jump. *Birds have figured this out,
and will feed - albeit nervously - even with her right below the feeder,
a mere 4' from their feet.

Even the hummer was chasing honeybees while completely ignoring the
sleek black predator stretched out below, watching her.

In a past location, some birds would even walk up to our glass doors to
harass Meep through the glass, and had even been known to chase her inside.

Not all cats are Dangerous Hunters

jmc

I keep my cats caged!

On Aug 18, 5:06*pm, chatnoir wrote:
I keep my cats caged!

Sounds like animal abuse.
How big are the cages? How many cats do you have?
How many are in each cage? How often do you let them out?
Why do you have cats when you treat them this way?

"chatnoir" wrote in message
...
On Aug 18, 1:59 pm, jmc wrote:
Suddenly, without warning, calvin exclaimed (8/18/2009 10:42 AM):

On Aug 18, 10:34 am, dgk wrote:
Actually I was thinking that. My cats do kill some birds each year -
one got nailed over the weekend. ...

With my cats, it has always been when they were young
that they caught birds, and even (amazingly) a few squirrels.
After age two or so, if I remember correctly, their urge to
stalk these creatures has declined considerably.

Lol, the birds around here have Meep's number, for sure. Due to issues
with her hind legs, she can't really jump. Birds have figured this out,
and will feed - albeit nervously - even with her right below the feeder,
a mere 4' from their feet.

Even the hummer was chasing honeybees while completely ignoring the
sleek black predator stretched out below, watching her.

In a past location, some birds would even walk up to our glass doors to
harass Meep through the glass, and had even been known to chase her
inside.

Not all cats are Dangerous Hunters

jmc

I keep my cats caged!

Take them to a shelter, you insipid moron.

On Aug 18, 9:16*pm, "cybercat" wrote:
"chatnoir" wrote in message

...
On Aug 18, 1:59 pm, jmc wrote:





Suddenly, without warning, calvin exclaimed (8/18/2009 10:42 AM):

On Aug 18, 10:34 am, dgk wrote:
Actually I was thinking that. My cats do kill some birds each year -
one got nailed over the weekend. ...

With my cats, it has always been when they were young
that they caught birds, and even (amazingly) a few squirrels.
After age two or so, if I remember correctly, their urge to
stalk these creatures has declined considerably.

Lol, the birds around here have Meep's number, for sure. Due to issues
with her hind legs, she can't really jump. Birds have figured this out,
and will feed - albeit nervously - even with her right below the feeder,
a mere 4' from their feet.

Even the hummer was chasing honeybees while completely ignoring the
sleek black predator stretched out below, watching her.

In a past location, some birds would even walk up to our glass doors to
harass Meep through the glass, and had even been known to chase her
inside.

Not all cats are Dangerous Hunters

jmc
I keep my cats caged!

Take them to a shelter, you insipid moron.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Better treated than lose cats

On Aug 18, 2:13*pm, calvin wrote:
On Aug 18, 5:06*pm, chatnoir wrote:

I keep my cats caged!

Sounds like animal abuse.

You sound like abuse - hope you don't have kids also!

How big are the cages? *How many cats do you have?

5 cats - 15 feet by 36 feet - more than they gets at shelters

How many are in each cage? *How often do you let them out?

they run the house and the outside cage!

Why do you have cats when you treat them this way?

Better than you treat them - I value my cats!

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:56:39 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
wrote:

On Aug 18, 2:13*pm, calvin wrote:
On Aug 18, 5:06*pm, chatnoir wrote:

I keep my cats caged!

Sounds like animal abuse.

You sound like abuse - hope you don't have kids also!

How big are the cages? *How many cats do you have?

5 cats - 15 feet by 36 feet - more than they gets at shelters

How many are in each cage? *How often do you let them out?

they run the house and the outside cage!

Why do you have cats when you treat them this way?

Better than you treat them - I value my cats!


You mean you let them outside but keep them in a big cage outside?
That makes sense. Essentially I do the same thing. My backyard is a
big cage for them. Of course, it's a cage that has no top so the birds
do stop by.

On Aug 19, 5:56*am, chatnoir wrote:
On Aug 18, 2:13*pm, calvin wrote:
How big are the cages? *How many cats do you have?

5 cats - 15 feet by 36 feet - more than they gets at shelters

How many are in each cage? *How often do you let them out?

they run the house and the outside cage!

That's different. You didn't say they were loose in the
house. You said you kept your cats caged. If you had
said it right, then it wouldn't have sounded like abuse.

"dgk" wrote i:


You mean you let them outside but keep them in a big cage outside?
That makes sense. Essentially I do the same thing. My backyard is a
big cage for them. Of course, it's a cage that has no top so the birds
do stop by.

come on, come clean, you have posted that your cats regularly snack on
cardinals. hahaha!

"chatnoir" wrote in message
...
On Aug 16, 11:16 pm, "Phil P." wrote:
"chatnoir" wrote in message

...
On Aug 15, 9:49 pm, "Phil P." wrote:





"chatnoir" wrote in message

...

http://www.youtube.com/abcbirds

Pure bull****. The entire video is based on fraudulent and manipulated
"studies" by Temple & Coleman. Temple & Coleman were interviewed in 1994
and asked to substantiate their figures. When cornered, they admitted "
"Those figures were from our proposal. They aren't actual data; that was
just our projection to show how bad it might be." IOW, their estimates
of
cat kill were nothing more than guesses. Yet the bird groups- especially
ABC, cite these quacks' papers as though they were scientific studies
that
have undergone the peer-review process- which they have not. What's even
more ridiculous, is that practically all the "studies" Temple &
Coleman's
cite in their bull**** "papers" are their *own* guesstimated "studies".
That's exactly the same as using yourself as a reference! But that
doesn't
bother the bird groups as long as the papers say what they want them to
say.

Here are a couple of good reads that pick Temple & Coleman's "studies"
apart:

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/html...sin_study.html

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/html..._reviewed.html

There are other studies from sources non-biased such as the Spray Pet
Advocay, that indicates bird predation by cats is serious!:

http://www.geocities.com/the_srco/Article.html

DOMESTIC CAT (Felis catus ) PREDATION OF BIRDS IN AN URBAN ENVIRONMENT

Carol A. Fiore and Karen Brown Sullivan

2000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*-
----

ABSTRACT

To quantify the effects of urban domestic cat predation on birds in
Wichita, Kansas, a city of approximately 300,000 residents, we
collected birds killed by study cats, analyzed fecal material, and
tracked cats using radio collars to estimate mean numbers of birds
killed per cat. A random survey and information from local
veterinarians were used to calculate pet cat density.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Another bull**** "study" with shoddy methodology. These bimbos used the
same shoddy methodology as Temple & Coleman and Churcher & Lawton. They
based their guesstimated numbers of birds killed by cats on the number of
cats in an area estimated by local vets. Of that total guesstimated number
of cats, many are indoor cats, some cats are too old to hunt, some cats
are
too young to hunt and some cats just don't hunt birds. IOW, the authors
took
the number kills from a small group of cats and multiplied it by the total
number of cats in the area. But the bird groups, especially ABC, eagerly
accept and fund these bogus "studies" because they supports their
agenda.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You have design and ran a study???? You do work with numbers you can
manage!

You're not getting this, are you, Einstein? The number of kills in the
"study" is bogus because the authors ASSumed *all* the cats in the area hunt
and kill the same average number of birds as the cats in the "study" even
though many of the cats in the area are indoor only or too old or too young
to hunt or simply just don't hunt birds. IOW, the authors' shoddy data
doesn't support their conclusions. Now do you understand why the study is
bogus?

"chatnoir" wrote in message
...
On Aug 16, 11:16 pm, "Phil P." wrote:
"chatnoir" wrote in message

...

I found articles where there were other references

Good for you. Now learn how to analyze a study before you blindly parrot
that which you don't understand and make a fool of yourself.

I did not blindly parrot anything!

Really? That's even worse. Then you're willfully and knowingly posting
bogus "studies" whose methodology is obviously shoddy just to promote your
own aggenda.

Either way, you're a dolt.