[OT] The dangers of tidy

My desk at work is usually somewhat chaotic. Its not as bad as some people,
but those 'some people' are blokes, and I am not. For some reason its
expected that my desk should be tidy. I have no idea why people get their
knickers in a knot about it - i can always find everything I need in a
heartbeat, I know what piles are what, what section of my desk refers to
what subject matter, etc etc. I don't expect anyone else to be able to
figure it out, but its *my* desk and it works for me.

We had the safety police around, and I was told in no uncertain terms that
my desk would be tidy. No ifs or buts, it was to be done NOW.

Two people pitched in to help. I thought this was unnecessary, but
apparently my desk was in 'such a state' that I needed two more able bodied
persons to either do the extraordinary amount of work required (it didn't
think it did) or to supervise me to mak sure I actually did the task rather
than letting it go (I am not that slack).

The upshot was that my desk, plust the contents of my drawers, the personal
and private contents of my desk drawers, were all dumped out on the big
conference room and people who were not me got to rifle through thema nd
decide what was to stay, and what was to go. Thankfully at least I got to
decide where the 'go' stuff got to end up - either in the bin or a box that
I had to take home. But I was Not Impressed with this process, especially
when other, more senionr, male people have IMHO, far worse desks than I do
and don't get criticised for it. I also object that whilst OK, perhaps it
looks bad, it doesn't interfere with my work, so there is NO NEED to go
through absolutely everything with other people, only to tidy up what was
actually visible.

The upshot is that I have two boxes of junk to take home, and lots of paper
to either file or bin.

OK. Its done. Yay.

And then I was asked where the minutes of yesterday's project planning
meeting where and why I hadn't typed them up yet.

Well, I hadn't typed them up because I was doing the very important task of
having my personal belongings examined, but I'd get to it Real Soon Now.

Except that they've been misplaced.

No other copies exist.

The *were* on top of my "Needs to Be Done" pile before the safety police
decided to turn my working life upside down. This is how my filing system
works. I put it on top of my 'needs to be done' pile, and work through it.
The less urgent material naturally sorts its way to the bottom of the pile
and every so often, when I get a spare few hours, I'll sort through the
bottom of the pile and see what still needs to be done and what can now
safely be ignored. Its an organic sort of system, it may not work for
everyone, but it has worked for me perfectly in the last 23 years, and
no-one has complained that I haven't got done on time what I've supposed to
have got done.

Except *someone* intereferred with this system and now I have *no idea*
where the meeting notes are. They could be in my filing cabinet, in any
number of folders. They could be sorted into notes. They could have been
thrown away as 'scrap paper'. I have NO IDEA where they are and there's
about 20 people, including managers and manger's managers and one of the
vice-presidents of the company relying on the notes from the project
planning meeting to be produced today.

These are the dangers of forcing an organising system onto someone who
doesn't organise themselves in that way. This is the dangers of 'tidy'. It
may *look* all neat and effecient, but for those who aren't naturally
inclined to that way of thinking, it makes actually getting the important
things done virtually impossible.

I'm now going to have to waste more time going through my 'organised' office
trying to find three pages of A4 paper with hand written notes. This will
waste a good few hours, when in my old 'messy' system I would have had it
done by now. So I've pretty much wasted one full day at work 'tidying' and
now 'searching' all in the name of *appearing* to be more effecient when
there was absolutely nothing wrong with *actual* effeciency before. One day
I dream of having so little work to do that my desk will only have a
carefully aligned pen on it - then I'll be ready to be the president of the
company.

Yowie

Yowie wrote:

My desk at work is usually somewhat chaotic. Its not as bad as some people,
but those 'some people' are blokes, and I am not. For some reason its
expected that my desk should be tidy. I have no idea why people get their
knickers in a knot about it - i can always find everything I need in a
heartbeat, I know what piles are what, what section of my desk refers to
what subject matter, etc etc. I don't expect anyone else to be able to
figure it out, but its *my* desk and it works for me.

We had the safety police around, and I was told in no uncertain terms that
my desk would be tidy. No ifs or buts, it was to be done NOW.

[snip for brevity]

Wow, that's terrible! I can't believe they went through the contents of
your *desk drawers*. That sounds like a violation to me. I keep some
fairly personal things in my desk drawers and I certainly wouldn't want 20
co-workers pawing through them. Is this even legal? I think if this was
done in a large corporation in the US and someone chose to raise a stink
about it, it would look pretty bad for the business. Maybe if they had a
reason to think you had something that would implicate you (eg, stolen
company property, illegal stuff, dangerous items), that would justify it,
but just to tidy up your office?

And then there's the issue of them singling you out - this seems very
inappropriate to me and borders on harassment, IMO. Especially given
the gender angle.

I'm sure some pointy-haired boss is very proud of him/herself for
making your office look like you're productive. :-/

Joyce

--
Whenever you feel anger, you should say, "May I be free of this
anger!" This rarely works, but talking to yourself in public will
encourage others to leave you alone.

Yowie wrote:

I'm now going to have to waste more time going through my 'organised' office
trying to find three pages of A4 paper with hand written notes. This will
waste a good few hours, when in my old 'messy' system I would have had it
done by now. So I've pretty much wasted one full day at work 'tidying' and
now 'searching' all in the name of *appearing* to be more effecient when
there was absolutely nothing wrong with *actual* effeciency before.

By the way, would you mind if I forwarded your story to a couple of
friends of mine? One of them has an unusual filing system - he throws
his papers on the floor in random-seeming piles. The place looks like
someone trashed it, but he knows exactly what is where. Whenever someone
looks like they might even accidentally move something, he gets very
agitated about it. If anyone pulled something on him like what happened
at your job, he'd probably need a padded cell. Anyway, I thought he and
his partner would have sympathy for your story. I can take out headers
and so forth if you prefer.

Joyce

--
Whenever you feel anger, you should say, "May I be free of this
anger!" This rarely works, but talking to yourself in public will
encourage others to leave you alone.

In ,
typed:
Yowie wrote:

I'm now going to have to waste more time going through my
'organised' office trying to find three pages of A4 paper with hand
written notes. This will waste a good few hours, when in my old
'messy' system I would have had it done by now. So I've pretty much
wasted one full day at work 'tidying' and now 'searching' all in the
name of *appearing* to be more effecient when there was absolutely
nothing wrong with *actual* effeciency before.

By the way, would you mind if I forwarded your story to a couple of
friends of mine? One of them has an unusual filing system - he throws
his papers on the floor in random-seeming piles. The place looks like
someone trashed it, but he knows exactly what is where. Whenever
someone looks like they might even accidentally move something, he
gets very agitated about it. If anyone pulled something on him like
what happened at your job, he'd probably need a padded cell. Anyway,
I thought he and his partner would have sympathy for your story. I
can take out headers and so forth if you prefer.

Feel free to send it on

Oh, there's no violation. Anything at work is fair game for a "safety audit"
which includes "housekeeping". Most people have the common decency to stay
out of desk drawers, lockers etc etc, but the person doing the audit, my
manager is a) new and b) a total neat freak, so he had to 'set an example'.
Alas, I am one with the chronic messy desk in his group and therefore the
one he targetted. The other fellow up the corridor, with a far FAR worse
desk than mine is not a direct report of his, so therefore doesn't come
under his scrutiny.

Most of my 'stuff' were toys of some sort, general distractions from the
dreariness that is work, and little gifts from Joel when we were first
dating (eg, a small teddy bear holding an "I love you" heart). These were
both 'not work related' and deemed 'not really appropriate for the image we
are trying to project' and therefore had to go. I can't see how them sitting
in a drawer projects any image at all, but there you go. It's a work desk
and should only have work related stuff in it, apprantly. *Sigh*. And how
can I argue? They are quite clearly *not work related* (then again, are
tampons work related?) so he believes they shouldn't be here. I could of
course keep them in my handbag (that wasn't looked at) but I don't have room
for that stuff in my handbag. That's the only place he thinks is OK to keep
'personal' stuff. His desk of course is as neat as a pin. And yes, I am the
only person in my building who has more personal stuff on and in my desk
than just the classic framed photo of wife & kids, since I don't have the
obligatory wife.

Yowie

"Yowie" wrote in message
...
My desk at work is usually somewhat chaotic. Its not as bad as some
people,
but those 'some people' are blokes, and I am not. For some reason its
expected that my desk should be tidy. I have no idea why people get their
knickers in a knot about it - i can always find everything I need in a
heartbeat, I know what piles are what, what section of my desk refers to
what subject matter, etc etc. I don't expect anyone else to be able to
figure it out, but its *my* desk and it works for me.

We had the safety police around, and I was told in no uncertain terms that
my desk would be tidy. No ifs or buts, it was to be done NOW.

Two people pitched in to help. I thought this was unnecessary, but
apparently my desk was in 'such a state' that I needed two more able
bodied
persons to either do the extraordinary amount of work required (it didn't
think it did) or to supervise me to mak sure I actually did the task
rather
than letting it go (I am not that slack).

The upshot was that my desk, plust the contents of my drawers, the
personal
and private contents of my desk drawers, were all dumped out on the big
conference room and people who were not me got to rifle through thema nd
decide what was to stay, and what was to go. Thankfully at least I got to
decide where the 'go' stuff got to end up - either in the bin or a box
that
I had to take home. But I was Not Impressed with this process, especially
when other, more senionr, male people have IMHO, far worse desks than I do
and don't get criticised for it. I also object that whilst OK, perhaps it
looks bad, it doesn't interfere with my work, so there is NO NEED to go
through absolutely everything with other people, only to tidy up what was
actually visible.

The upshot is that I have two boxes of junk to take home, and lots of
paper
to either file or bin.

OK. Its done. Yay.

And then I was asked where the minutes of yesterday's project planning
meeting where and why I hadn't typed them up yet.

Well, I hadn't typed them up because I was doing the very important task
of
having my personal belongings examined, but I'd get to it Real Soon Now.

Except that they've been misplaced.

No other copies exist.

The *were* on top of my "Needs to Be Done" pile before the safety police
decided to turn my working life upside down. This is how my filing system
works. I put it on top of my 'needs to be done' pile, and work through it.
The less urgent material naturally sorts its way to the bottom of the pile
and every so often, when I get a spare few hours, I'll sort through the
bottom of the pile and see what still needs to be done and what can now
safely be ignored. Its an organic sort of system, it may not work for
everyone, but it has worked for me perfectly in the last 23 years, and
no-one has complained that I haven't got done on time what I've supposed
to
have got done.

Except *someone* intereferred with this system and now I have *no idea*
where the meeting notes are. They could be in my filing cabinet, in any
number of folders. They could be sorted into notes. They could have been
thrown away as 'scrap paper'. I have NO IDEA where they are and there's
about 20 people, including managers and manger's managers and one of the
vice-presidents of the company relying on the notes from the project
planning meeting to be produced today.

These are the dangers of forcing an organising system onto someone who
doesn't organise themselves in that way. This is the dangers of 'tidy'. It
may *look* all neat and effecient, but for those who aren't naturally
inclined to that way of thinking, it makes actually getting the important
things done virtually impossible.

I'm now going to have to waste more time going through my 'organised'
office
trying to find three pages of A4 paper with hand written notes. This will
waste a good few hours, when in my old 'messy' system I would have had it
done by now. So I've pretty much wasted one full day at work 'tidying' and
now 'searching' all in the name of *appearing* to be more effecient when
there was absolutely nothing wrong with *actual* effeciency before. One
day
I dream of having so little work to do that my desk will only have a
carefully aligned pen on it - then I'll be ready to be the president of
the
company.

Yowie


That's outrageous, but you probably were not in a position to dispute it.
When I was working, the only "safety audit" came from the city fire
inspector. He left a general requirement for *all* offices that nothing was
to be left on the floor except furnishings (no paper, boxes, etc.), and he
tested all portable equipment (such as space heaters) to make sure they had
working automatic shut-offs if they were turned over. All of that really
did relate to fire safety.

MaryL

"Yowie" wrote in message
...
My desk at work is usually somewhat chaotic. Its not as bad as some
people,
but those 'some people' are blokes, and I am not. For some reason its
expected that my desk should be tidy. I have no idea why people get their
knickers in a knot about it - i can always find everything I need in a
heartbeat, I know what piles are what, what section of my desk refers to
what subject matter, etc etc. I don't expect anyone else to be able to
figure it out, but its *my* desk and it works for me.

We had the safety police around, and I was told in no uncertain terms that
my desk would be tidy. No ifs or buts, it was to be done NOW.

Two people pitched in to help. I thought this was unnecessary, but
apparently my desk was in 'such a state' that I needed two more able
bodied
persons to either do the extraordinary amount of work required (it didn't
think it did) or to supervise me to mak sure I actually did the task
rather
than letting it go (I am not that slack).

The upshot was that my desk, plust the contents of my drawers, the
personal
and private contents of my desk drawers, were all dumped out on the big
conference room and people who were not me got to rifle through thema nd
decide what was to stay, and what was to go. Thankfully at least I got to
decide where the 'go' stuff got to end up - either in the bin or a box
that
I had to take home. But I was Not Impressed with this process, especially
when other, more senionr, male people have IMHO, far worse desks than I do
and don't get criticised for it. I also object that whilst OK, perhaps it
looks bad, it doesn't interfere with my work, so there is NO NEED to go
through absolutely everything with other people, only to tidy up what was
actually visible.

The upshot is that I have two boxes of junk to take home, and lots of
paper
to either file or bin.

OK. Its done. Yay.

And then I was asked where the minutes of yesterday's project planning
meeting where and why I hadn't typed them up yet.

Well, I hadn't typed them up because I was doing the very important task
of
having my personal belongings examined, but I'd get to it Real Soon Now.

Except that they've been misplaced.

No other copies exist.

The *were* on top of my "Needs to Be Done" pile before the safety police
decided to turn my working life upside down. This is how my filing system
works. I put it on top of my 'needs to be done' pile, and work through it.
The less urgent material naturally sorts its way to the bottom of the pile
and every so often, when I get a spare few hours, I'll sort through the
bottom of the pile and see what still needs to be done and what can now
safely be ignored. Its an organic sort of system, it may not work for
everyone, but it has worked for me perfectly in the last 23 years, and
no-one has complained that I haven't got done on time what I've supposed
to
have got done.

Except *someone* intereferred with this system and now I have *no idea*
where the meeting notes are. They could be in my filing cabinet, in any
number of folders. They could be sorted into notes. They could have been
thrown away as 'scrap paper'. I have NO IDEA where they are and there's
about 20 people, including managers and manger's managers and one of the
vice-presidents of the company relying on the notes from the project
planning meeting to be produced today.

These are the dangers of forcing an organising system onto someone who
doesn't organise themselves in that way. This is the dangers of 'tidy'. It
may *look* all neat and effecient, but for those who aren't naturally
inclined to that way of thinking, it makes actually getting the important
things done virtually impossible.

I'm now going to have to waste more time going through my 'organised'
office
trying to find three pages of A4 paper with hand written notes. This will
waste a good few hours, when in my old 'messy' system I would have had it
done by now. So I've pretty much wasted one full day at work 'tidying' and
now 'searching' all in the name of *appearing* to be more effecient when
there was absolutely nothing wrong with *actual* effeciency before. One
day
I dream of having so little work to do that my desk will only have a
carefully aligned pen on it - then I'll be ready to be the president of
the
company.

Yowie

Wow! Considering how outraged you must be, your post was really tame. I'd
have been boiling, even if they hadn't lost something important and urgent.
I hope that new boss either leaves, transfers to another department, or
loosens up.

Joy

Yowie wrote:

Most of my 'stuff' were toys of some sort, general distractions from the
dreariness that is work, and little gifts from Joel when we were first
dating (eg, a small teddy bear holding an "I love you" heart). These were
both 'not work related' and deemed 'not really appropriate for the image we
are trying to project' and therefore had to go. I can't see how them sitting
in a drawer projects any image at all, but there you go. It's a work desk
and should only have work related stuff in it, apprantly. *Sigh*. And how
can I argue? They are quite clearly *not work related*

Most workplaces allow employees to make their workspace personal, to
one degree or another. A teddy bear is certainly innocent enough. This
guy sounds like a serious case of OCD.

And yes, I am the
only person in my building who has more personal stuff on and in my desk
than just the classic framed photo of wife & kids, since I don't have the
obligatory wife.

But you do have the obligatory husband and kid!

(Even if I had a family, I still would put up pictures of my cats. )

Joyce

--
What business is it of the state how consenting adults choose to pair
off, share expenses and eventually stop having sex with each other?
-- Bill Maher

Good grief, I would have been furious. I would probably done or said
something unwise.

I work like you. My desk isn't just untidy, it's a positive shambles,
but like you, I can always find what needs to be found. Every six
months or so I have a filing session, and I know that for a while
after, I spend ages looking for things because my system has been
disturbed.

Some people just can't stand things to be 'out of place' by their
standards. I once worked in an office where a senior manager tried to
impose a 'clean desk' policy. I got round it by putting all the stuff
from my desk in a big box at the end of the day, and putting the box
on top of my chair. Of course, it meant that I spent half an hour a
day packing and unpacking the box instead of working, but at least I
had a 'tidy desk'.

I'm with you Yowie, it's best to let people work as they are used to
working.

Jeanette

On 6 Oct, 05:26, "Yowie" wrote:
.. I have no idea why people get their
knickers in a knot about it - i can always find everything I need in a
heartbeat, I know what piles are what, what section of my desk refers to
what subject matter, etc etc. I don't expect anyone else to be able to
figure it out, but its *my* desk and it works for me.

A lot of people say my office is chaotic- there seem to be piles of
notes all over the floor- they're then amazed when they come and look
at the mess and say something like "Would you have these notes it's
one of Ali's patients (or David's or Linda's or Paul's)" and I point
in a pile and can confidently state "If I have them they are in that
pile there"

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

On 6 Oct, 08:49, wrote:

Most workplaces allow employees to make their workspace personal, to
one degree or another. A teddy bear is certainly innocent enough. This
guy sounds like a serious case of OCD.


You want I send Yowie's boss and photo of my workstation? If he
chokes up over a small teddy bear he'll die of shock! On the big
shelf I have my supplies ie. tea, coffee, instant hot chocolate,
soup, museli, handcream, face wipes, tissues and my cereal bowl. A
"Thank you" card from a patient I helped out. Series 1 and 2 of
"True Blood" on DVD (Lent them to James in the next office and keep
forgetting to take them home) about 40 books on various topics but
none work related (A suspiciously large number of them are cat
related), Wahmsee 2, a plush black and white cat, 2 hand painted
wooden cat statues (yes a theme is developing here) and a little
koala. And I have various postcards on the wall mostly cat related
but also a picture of Frank Zappa and the certificate I got for
winning the Xmas quiz a couple of years back

And the only comment I have ever had was "Have you read all those
books?"

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs