If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Day one of Tiger's kidney diet, and history
I'll explain what we're trying in a bit, but first some background.
Apologies for the long post. Tiger's a 17-year old Maine-Coonish moggie (long hair, ear-tufts, tabby markings). My son picked him from a litter of farm cats. He's always been very healthy. I thought it was time for a physical, so we brought him in to our regular vet. The vet was impressed at how well he's doing - coat is very good, strong, and he's only lost one tooth, which was extracted a few years ago (he also said that cats Tiger's age usually have lost 25% of their teeth! Can that be right?). He was a little concerned that he'd lost a pound over the last 3 years. Unfortunately, our relief was followed by the results of bloodwork, which showed anemia and elevated BUN and Creatinine levels, which indicated renal failure. The vet prescribed the moderate-protein, grain-based diet which is the norm, apparently. I've recently read Elizabeth Hodgkins' book "Your Cat", which says that's backwards, and the "kidney cat" should get good quality real meat protein (wet), but with phosporous managed either by cutting the food with cooked egg whites (high protein, no phosporous) and/or the addition of phosphate binder. Tiger's always eaten Wellness wet food. There was a lot of soul-searching. Hoo-boy was there soul-searching. I called several vets, most of which echoed our vet's advice. I reached out to Facebook friends, and many reported good results with the low-protein approach. A few agreed with Dr. Hodgkins, though. So I thought, the most conservative approach is to follow the vet's advice for a while and see if he improves. If not, we go to plan B. We picked up the prescription food, and gave it to him for a few days. He bacame quite lethargic, and resumed gulping down water and barfing it back up. And wow, the farts.. His younger "brother", Louis the Bengal age 10, wouldn't touch it. I thought: "well, this must be acute kidney failure", and we should start planning for Tiger's demise. Then I posted (under google groups) here and asked for advice, and found sympathy with the good-protein, wet, no-grain strategy. Finally, I had a long conversation with a "conventional" vet who's begun to suspect conventional wisdom, and a holistic vet that thinks conventional wisdom is barbaric. The former almost teared up when he admitted that before his change of heart, he was basically starving his kidney cats to death. I also reached out to a local big cat rescue center that I trust, who said they just feed their big cats with kidney issues raw meat, with some electrolytes added to their water. What settled it was a response from an old cat advisor who saw that post and set out very forcefully that prescription diets are indeed barbaric. I trust her judgement; she's worked with a lot of cats. Also, I made the calculation that one makes with terminally ill cats: is discomfort worth a few extra months of life? As in, sure you can do chemo for a cat with cancer, but then you've got a miserable little beast that lives a little longer for your selfishness. Even if the prescription diet preserves renal function, is it worth it to have a longer-lived miserable cat? Today we bought some egg-whites in a carton. My wife cooked 'em up and put them in a food processor. We got the most expedient real-meat canned food we could find at the local Chuck & Don's, "Tiki-Cat". Mixed the food about 80/20 Tiki and cooked egg whites (the thinking behind egg whites is that they're high-protein but zero phosphorous, the latter being bad for cats with failing kidneys. You essentially dilute the phosphorous-heavy meat). Dunno what I was expecting, but we fed Tiger in the morning, and he spent the day looking pitiful and sleeping in new, dark places. Aw crap - he's got some acute kidney disease and will keel over any minute. I came home tonight, half-expecting Louis to be hovering over Tiger's corpse. Instead, Tiger was back to trying to get out of the house to play, and dancing around and playing with Louis. He's sitting at the computer with me right now, trying to keep me from typing, like he used to. We ordered some phosphate-binders which should arrive on Monday. We'll play with ratios of binder and egg-whites until we can find out what they'll both still tolerate. It's probably good for Louis to get the low-phosphorous diet as well, since 10 years old is already a bit long in the tooth for a cat, especially a hybrid. My wife found a petfood store that grinds up whole birds for catfood, which is another bit of advice from Dr. Hodgkins and other whole-food proponents. Going there on Monday. I can't tell you how wonderful it was to see Tiger prancing around like his old self when I got home. It's still possible that the kidney disease will eventually do him in, but I've got some hope that he'll be around for a bit longer. After the cat-ocalypse we had in the '90s, where we lost 4 cats to FIV, cancer and dogs in the space of 2 years, it's so wonderful to have two older cats stay with us for so long. Thanks to those of you who've weighed in! And if anyone has any other suggestions, I'd be grateful to hear them. BLink |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Day one of Tiger's kidney diet, and history
My wife found a petfood store that grinds up whole birds for catfood, which is another bit of advice from Dr. Hodgkins and other whole-food proponents. Going there on Monday. I admire your persistance and research. Feeding a raw diet is a great idea; however, it's important to get the right blend of ingredients/ nutrients. There is a great recipe on catinfo.org he http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood Rene |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Day one of Tiger's kidney diet, and history
On Mon, 4 Jun 2012 06:50:55 -0700 (PDT), Rene
wrote: My wife found a petfood store that grinds up whole birds for catfood, which is another bit of advice from Dr. Hodgkins and other whole-food proponents. Going there on Monday. I admire your persistance and research. Feeding a raw diet is a great idea; however, it's important to get the right blend of ingredients/ nutrients. There is a great recipe on catinfo.org he http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood Rene Thanks, Rene! Yeah, our cat-lady sent us this link a while ago. I was planning to call our local provider today, but they're closed on Mondays. Just makes sense to feed cats the diet they're bred for. We've got a great local pet-food store that sells raw meat, and I trust their judgement. (xrist, they grind up the whole bird/rabbit?) Sucks to have an old-cat that is sick. And to have your vet and smart cat-folks give you different advice. I was a Fine-Arts major! How do I choose the best treatment for my cat? Well, I trust the cat lady, since she's far more experienced than most of the vets I talk to. BLink |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Day one of Tiger's kidney diet, and history
Rene wrote:
My wife found a petfood store that grinds up whole birds for catfood, which is another bit of advice from Dr. Hodgkins and other whole-food proponents. Going there on Monday. I admire your persistance and research. Feeding a raw diet is a great idea; however, it's important to get the right blend of ingredients/ nutrients. There is a great recipe on catinfo.org he http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood Rene We half roast chickens, cut out the cat's food, then roast them the rest of the way. I would feed them the chicken raw, but I am afraid it might be contaminated with bacteria, so by half cooking it, I feel better. We don't have to grind it up, but one cat is too old to have any teeth left, so we cut his up into small pieces.... |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Day one of Tiger's kidney diet, and history
Brian Link wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2012 06:50:55 -0700 (PDT), Rene wrote: My wife found a petfood store that grinds up whole birds for catfood, which is another bit of advice from Dr. Hodgkins and other whole-food proponents. Going there on Monday. I admire your persistance and research. Feeding a raw diet is a great idea; however, it's important to get the right blend of ingredients/ nutrients. There is a great recipe on catinfo.org he http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood Rene Thanks, Rene! Yeah, our cat-lady sent us this link a while ago. I was planning to call our local provider today, but they're closed on Mondays. Just makes sense to feed cats the diet they're bred for. We've got a great local pet-food store that sells raw meat, and I trust their judgement. (xrist, they grind up the whole bird/rabbit?) Sucks to have an old-cat that is sick. And to have your vet and smart cat-folks give you different advice. I was a Fine-Arts major! How do I choose the best treatment for my cat? Well, I trust the cat lady, since she's far more experienced than most of the vets I talk to. BLink I question how good it is for cats to "grind up a whole bird". They don't normally eat the bones of birds in the wild. Do they seperate out the meat for grinding? |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Day one of Tiger's kidney diet, and history
I question how good it is for cats to "grind up a whole bird". They don't normally eat the bones of birds in the wild. Do they seperate out the meat for grinding? AFAIK you grind up everything together (minus feathers, feet, head, etc.). Cats need the nutrients from bones (taurine, calcium, etc). *Uncooked* ground bones are not a problem for cats. When they eat mice or rodents they eat the entire animal. Cooked bones become a problem because they are harder and splinter-- thus possibly causing internal damage. Rene |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Day one of Tiger's kidney diet, and history
On 6/4/2012 5:03 PM, Bill Graham wrote:
Brian Link wrote: On Mon, 4 Jun 2012 06:50:55 -0700 (PDT), Rene wrote: My wife found a petfood store that grinds up whole birds for catfood, which is another bit of advice from Dr. Hodgkins and other whole-food proponents. Going there on Monday. I admire your persistance and research. Feeding a raw diet is a great idea; however, it's important to get the right blend of ingredients/ nutrients. There is a great recipe on catinfo.org he http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood Rene Thanks, Rene! Yeah, our cat-lady sent us this link a while ago. I was planning to call our local provider today, but they're closed on Mondays. Just makes sense to feed cats the diet they're bred for. We've got a great local pet-food store that sells raw meat, and I trust their judgement. (xrist, they grind up the whole bird/rabbit?) Sucks to have an old-cat that is sick. And to have your vet and smart cat-folks give you different advice. I was a Fine-Arts major! How do I choose the best treatment for my cat? Well, I trust the cat lady, since she's far more experienced than most of the vets I talk to. BLink I question how good it is for cats to "grind up a whole bird". They don't normally eat the bones of birds in the wild. Do they seperate out the meat for grinding? yes they do. about the only thing my outside cat didn't eat of packrats was the tail and the squeek. cooking, or partial cooking, of the food makes the bones turn brittle, and that's what makes them dangerous for eating. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Day one of Tiger's kidney diet, and history
On Mon, 4 Jun 2012 17:03:54 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote: Brian Link wrote: On Mon, 4 Jun 2012 06:50:55 -0700 (PDT), Rene wrote: My wife found a petfood store that grinds up whole birds for catfood, which is another bit of advice from Dr. Hodgkins and other whole-food proponents. Going there on Monday. I admire your persistance and research. Feeding a raw diet is a great idea; however, it's important to get the right blend of ingredients/ nutrients. There is a great recipe on catinfo.org he http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood Rene Thanks, Rene! Yeah, our cat-lady sent us this link a while ago. I was planning to call our local provider today, but they're closed on Mondays. Just makes sense to feed cats the diet they're bred for. We've got a great local pet-food store that sells raw meat, and I trust their judgement. (xrist, they grind up the whole bird/rabbit?) Sucks to have an old-cat that is sick. And to have your vet and smart cat-folks give you different advice. I was a Fine-Arts major! How do I choose the best treatment for my cat? Well, I trust the cat lady, since she's far more experienced than most of the vets I talk to. BLink I question how good it is for cats to "grind up a whole bird". They don't normally eat the bones of birds in the wild. Do they seperate out the meat for grinding? My understanding (and I'm still learning this stuff) is that cats do take in important minerals from gnawing on bones. Especially marrow. And they'll eat guts & stuff. That's one of the questions I'll have for the fresh-food vendor - does seem kinda weird to have bones in the mix, though bone meal is an ingredient in some commercial preparations. BLink |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Day one of Tiger's kidney diet, and history
Brian Link wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2012 17:03:54 -0700, "Bill Graham" wrote: Brian Link wrote: On Mon, 4 Jun 2012 06:50:55 -0700 (PDT), Rene wrote: My wife found a petfood store that grinds up whole birds for catfood, which is another bit of advice from Dr. Hodgkins and other whole-food proponents. Going there on Monday. I admire your persistance and research. Feeding a raw diet is a great idea; however, it's important to get the right blend of ingredients/ nutrients. There is a great recipe on catinfo.org he http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood Rene Thanks, Rene! Yeah, our cat-lady sent us this link a while ago. I was planning to call our local provider today, but they're closed on Mondays. Just makes sense to feed cats the diet they're bred for. We've got a great local pet-food store that sells raw meat, and I trust their judgement. (xrist, they grind up the whole bird/rabbit?) Sucks to have an old-cat that is sick. And to have your vet and smart cat-folks give you different advice. I was a Fine-Arts major! How do I choose the best treatment for my cat? Well, I trust the cat lady, since she's far more experienced than most of the vets I talk to. BLink I question how good it is for cats to "grind up a whole bird". They don't normally eat the bones of birds in the wild. Do they seperate out the meat for grinding? My understanding (and I'm still learning this stuff) is that cats do take in important minerals from gnawing on bones. Especially marrow. And they'll eat guts & stuff. That's one of the questions I'll have for the fresh-food vendor - does seem kinda weird to have bones in the mix, though bone meal is an ingredient in some commercial preparations. BLink Well, there is no reason why I couldn't grind up a whole chicken and feed it to my cats. - They could do a lot worse, and the cost per pound would be significantly better than canned cat food. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Day one of Tiger's kidney diet, and history
Well, there is no reason why I couldn't grind up a whole chicken and feed it to my cats. - They could do a lot worse, and the cost per pound would be significantly better than canned cat food. FYI, you need to include the organs too. Feeding cats a raw diet is a tricky things. They are obligatory carnivores and need a delicate balance of nutrients. I'd strongly suggest feeding a tested, balanced raw recipe. This great website has one: http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
totally confused - question on overweight kidney problems and diet! | [email protected] | Cat health & behaviour | 2 | December 12th 07 09:48 PM |
Importance of diet with kidney problems | The Other Mike | Cat health & behaviour | 14 | October 5th 06 07:35 AM |
Tiger's vet visit today ears, urination, kidney | Elizabeth Blake | Cat health & behaviour | 3 | December 6th 05 01:53 AM |
A brief history of my cats.... | Mr. Kwaaazy Caaatz Executive Vice President UTB | Cat health & behaviour | 2 | September 13th 05 02:18 PM |
Kidney Diet, 18 y.o. Siamese | Please invert everything left of the @ to reply | Cat health & behaviour | 2 | February 28th 04 07:30 AM |