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Strange Eosinophilic Granuloma Complex ...



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 21st 05, 08:59 PM
Mary
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Default Strange Eosinophilic Granuloma Complex ...

I recently mentioned that my asthmatic cat who has EGC had not had a Depo
Medrol shot since last July, and that she had not so much as coughed since
then. (She is on no other medications; the Depo appears to keep both her
asthma and her ESG controlled.)

This morning she had a full blown asthma attack--usually I have a warning
that one is coming, in that I can hear her congestion when she purrs, and
she coughs once or twice.
Another sign I look for that she needs a Depo shot is when the bumps that
are the hallmark of the linear granuloma type of EGC show up on her back
legs. No bumps this time, either.

We just got home from the vet, and this time her EGC is presenting as the
"rodent ulcer" lip lesion. It is not an open lesion yet, just a swelling on
her lower lip. What a weird complex it is. I thought once she was diagnosed
with linear granuloma (bumps in lines along the back of her legs) that would
be the kind she always gets. Apparently not. I asked the vet if I need to
schedule more frequent shots and she said I am doing it right--waiting until
I hear a cough or see a sign of the EGC. But what a balancing act it is. If
she gets Depo too frequently she might develop diabetes--but not enough and
she might have a life threatening asthma attack. Still, I'm grateful that
what she has is treatable.


  #2  
Old March 21st 05, 09:28 PM
Monique Y. Mudama
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On 2005-03-21, Mary penned:
I recently mentioned that my asthmatic cat who has EGC had not had a Depo
Medrol shot since last July, and that she had not so much as coughed since
then. (She is on no other medications; the Depo appears to keep both her
asthma and her ESG controlled.)

This morning she had a full blown asthma attack--usually I have a warning
that one is coming, in that I can hear her congestion when she purrs, and
she coughs once or twice. Another sign I look for that she needs a Depo
shot is when the bumps that are the hallmark of the linear granuloma type of
EGC show up on her back legs. No bumps this time, either.

We just got home from the vet, and this time her EGC is presenting as the
"rodent ulcer" lip lesion. It is not an open lesion yet, just a swelling on
her lower lip. What a weird complex it is. I thought once she was diagnosed
with linear granuloma (bumps in lines along the back of her legs) that would
be the kind she always gets. Apparently not. I asked the vet if I need to
schedule more frequent shots and she said I am doing it right--waiting until
I hear a cough or see a sign of the EGC. But what a balancing act it is. If
she gets Depo too frequently she might develop diabetes--but not enough and
she might have a life threatening asthma attack. Still, I'm grateful that


Did her lip lesion bother her at all? I freaked when I saw the big pink bump
on Oscar's lip a few months ago, but she never seemed to notice it. If it
doesn't bother her, getting more frequent shots wouldn't seem (to me) to make
sense.

Does the asthma always happen concurrently with the EGC?

--
monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
  #3  
Old March 21st 05, 10:05 PM
Mary
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"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message
...

Did her lip lesion bother her at all?


No, not at all. I noticed it first two nights ago when she was looking at me
and there was something shiny that did not belong--it was the
swollen lip showing. I have watched her ever since, and she grooms
up a storm and enjoys her food as much as ever.

I freaked when I saw the big pink bump
on Oscar's lip a few months ago, but she never seemed to notice it.


Does Oscar have EGC? How did I miss that?


If it
doesn't bother her, getting more frequent shots wouldn't seem (to me) to

make
sense.

Does the asthma always happen concurrently with the EGC?



Yes it does. The EGC always presents its first signs at about the time
she first coughs. Weird, isn't it? In a way it makes sense because
both asthma and EGC are related to and triggered by allergies,
although they do not understand exactly how. Stupidly, I had her
favorite screened window open all night, so she could sit there
and listen to the night birds and bugs. Everything is budding.
Since she almost always gets congested in March then in July,
I imagine she has plant allergies. However: when I was wearing
perfume regularly and using different cleaning products, and before
she began eating canned food, she was having attacks every 2
months or so. So I guess she is just allergic to the world. I am
only allergic to dust, mold, and cats, thank god. How about
Oscar? Does she have allergies?



--
monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca



  #4  
Old March 21st 05, 10:30 PM
Monique Y. Mudama
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On 2005-03-21, Mary penned:

"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message
...

I freaked when I saw the big pink bump
on Oscar's lip a few months ago, but she never seemed to notice it.


Does Oscar have EGC? How did I miss that?


Well, as I understand it, for some cats this can be a one-time or rare thing,
whereas other lucky cats get it a lot. A few months ago, we were about to
leave for a weekend trip and I noticed what I thought was Oscar's tongue
sticking out a bit after a vigorous play session. When we got home, though, I
saw that her lip was an angry-looking pink bump. At the same time, I got the
four voicemails from my mom saying that dad was in the hospital for emergency
surgery and where was I? It was a stressful Sunday. I think I posted to this
NG about it ....

Anyway, Oscar got two shots, about two weeks apart, and seems fine since then.
No idea if it will recurr or not.

How about Oscar? Does she have allergies?


Not that I know of. The vet didn't seem too concerned as long as the bump
doesn't come back. From what I've read, EGC is often, but not always, related
to allergies. If she gets it again, then I'll start looking. I don't wear
perfume or makeup, and I tend to stick to particular brands, so I don't think
it's a matter of cleaning materials and such. It's possible it's related to
switching her to wet wellness from dry nutro, but then again, it's also
possible it's not.

--
monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
  #5  
Old March 22nd 05, 01:33 AM
Mary
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"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message
...
On 2005-03-21, Mary penned:

"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message
...

I freaked when I saw the big pink bump
on Oscar's lip a few months ago, but she never seemed to notice it.


Does Oscar have EGC? How did I miss that?


Well, as I understand it, for some cats this can be a one-time or rare

thing,
whereas other lucky cats get it a lot. A few months ago, we were about to
leave for a weekend trip and I noticed what I thought was Oscar's tongue
sticking out a bit after a vigorous play session. When we got home,

though, I
saw that her lip was an angry-looking pink bump. At the same time, I got

the
four voicemails from my mom saying that dad was in the hospital for

emergency
surgery and where was I? It was a stressful Sunday. I think I posted to

this
NG about it ....


God, really. What a horrible day.


Anyway, Oscar got two shots, about two weeks apart, and seems fine since

then.
No idea if it will recurr or not.


I hope not. I had not understood that it might be a one-time thing.



How about Oscar? Does she have allergies?


Not that I know of. The vet didn't seem too concerned as long as the bump
doesn't come back. From what I've read, EGC is often, but not always,

related
to allergies. If she gets it again, then I'll start looking. I don't

wear
perfume or makeup, and I tend to stick to particular brands, so I don't

think
it's a matter of cleaning materials and such. It's possible it's related

to
switching her to wet wellness from dry nutro, but then again, it's also
possible it's not.


What is really weird is, you know how they call it "rodent ulcer,"
supposedly out of a mistaken belief that catching rodents caused
it? Well, you may recall that about two weeks ago Cheeks and
Buddha caught their first mouse. Just a coincidence, of course,
but a weird one.

My vet actually told me to stick with Cheeky's current canned--even
though it is Fancy Feast, the garbage food of canned food--just because
she currently only needs 2 Depo shots a year. He said "With these cats,
you just never know. Keep doing whatever you're doing."

Honestly, Mo, when I looked at this little 7-lb tabby gasping for
breath on the carpet this morning I had this feeling like the bottom
was dropping out of my whole world. I love this cat way too much.
It's such a double-edged sword--but better to feel than not to feel.
She is fine now, her quirky little self. My vet is so wonderful--she
snuggled Cheeky while she gave her the shot. With the sweet vet
tech holding her head and saying what pretty eyes she has.
(The cat's head, not the vet's!) Just what you want them to do.
This is the same vet who came to our home and euthanized
Gnarly when the end had come. She--and the tech--both cried
with me that day. I am going to ask for her every time I make
an appointment. The male vets are not nearly so pleasant.


  #6  
Old March 22nd 05, 04:57 AM
Monique Y. Mudama
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On 2005-03-22, Mary penned:

Anyway, Oscar got two shots, about two weeks apart, and seems fine
since then. No idea if it will recurr or not.


I hope not. I had not understood that it might be a one-time thing.


Let's see if I can find some info again ...

Hrm, I can't find exactly what I'm looking for, but here's a quote from
http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/Starnes/

"The prognosis of ECG is variable. Young cats often have a better prognosis.
In cats less than 1 year of age, eosinophilic granulomas may regress
spontaneously over a period of 3 to 5 months. In individuals with recurring
lesions without a determined underlying cause, long-term therapy typically is
required to keep the lesions in remission. Since these cats may become
refractory to or develop side effects from medical therapy a poorer prognosis
is given."

I infer from the phras "in individuals with recurring lesions" that there are
individuals whose lesions (I keep mistyping that legions!) don't recur. It
seems like I read somewhere, but not in that link, that a combination of the
cat's age and something else set up the odds for whether or not it would
probably recur.

As I'm reviewing these sites, it seems to me that Oscar's lesion was much
less, well, gross-looking that the pictures shown. It was just a big pink/red
swell on her lower lip. Perhaps I caught it soon enough that it didn't get
gross? My vet never actually did a biopsy; he gave me the choice of a biopsy
or simply treating it as though it was the "indolent ulcer" (that's the term
he used) he suspected. The swelling went down very quickly after the shot, so
I never looked back.

What is really weird is, you know how they call it "rodent ulcer,"
supposedly out of a mistaken belief that catching rodents caused it?
Well, you may recall that about two weeks ago Cheeks and Buddha caught
their first mouse. Just a coincidence, of course, but a weird one.


There's always something to keep you guessing =P

Honestly, Mo, when I looked at this little 7-lb tabby gasping for
breath on the carpet this morning I had this feeling like the bottom
was dropping out of my whole world. I love this cat way too much.


Maybe not *too* much. How can you love too much, unless you let the love get
in the way of the object of your love's welfare?

It's such a double-edged sword--but better to feel than not to feel.
She is fine now, her quirky little self. My vet is so wonderful--she
snuggled Cheeky while she gave her the shot. With the sweet vet tech
holding her head and saying what pretty eyes she has. (The cat's
head, not the vet's!) Just what you want them to do. This is the same
vet who came to our home and euthanized Gnarly when the end had come.
She--and the tech--both cried with me that day. I am going to ask for
her every time I make an appointment. The male vets are not nearly so
pleasant.


As a result of Oscar's lip, I've now met all three vets at our clinic, two
female and one male. The guy is the senior vet; I gather he doesn't do many
examinations anymore (I guess that means he's in surgery mostly?), but he saw
Oscar about her lip for the first time. He actually brought a book into the
examining room and showed me the section on "indolent ulcers," so I was able
to read straight from his reference book and compare the pictures to Oscar
directly. Very cool. His whole manner was very calm and reassuring.

I'm glad that I've now met all three vets in a non-emergency situation; I got
good vibes from all of them and would have no problems letting any of them
diagnose Oscar. Too bad they're not a 24-hour clinic =/

--
monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
  #7  
Old March 22nd 05, 05:47 PM
Mary
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Posts: n/a
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"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message
...
On 2005-03-22, Mary penned:
Hrm, I can't find exactly what I'm looking for, but here's a quote from
http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/Starnes/

"The prognosis of ECG is variable. Young cats often have a better

prognosis.
In cats less than 1 year of age, eosinophilic granulomas may regress
spontaneously over a period of 3 to 5 months. In individuals with

recurring
lesions without a determined underlying cause, long-term therapy typically

is
required to keep the lesions in remission. Since these cats may become
refractory to or develop side effects from medical therapy a poorer

prognosis
is given."


Cheeks was supposed to be 2 years old when I adopted her, but I think
she was more like maybe a year old due to her behavior and size, but
more her behavior. (She was just very kittenish.) She presented with the
EGC about a year later--*that I noticed&--but the asthma appeared the
first day I had her. (The woman at the shelter said "I'll take her back" and
I couldn't imagine it! Clearly she did not understand that this was love at
first sight!) Anyway, I wish it had been a one-time thing for her.


I infer from the phras "in individuals with recurring lesions" that there

are
individuals whose lesions (I keep mistyping that legions!) don't recur.

It
seems like I read somewhere, but not in that link, that a combination of

the
cat's age and something else set up the odds for whether or not it would
probably recur.


That's certainly a reasonable assumption. There have been two occasions
when I felt bumps on the back of Cheeky's legs, and now this swollen
lip, so she is definitely in the recurring lesion category.
(BTW, Oscar's was pink but hers is black--because her lips are black.
That weirded me out when I first saw her because both Gnarly and Buddha
have pink lips. It must be a gray tabby thing.)


As I'm reviewing these sites, it seems to me that Oscar's lesion was much
less, well, gross-looking that the pictures shown. It was just a big

pink/red
swell on her lower lip. Perhaps I caught it soon enough that it didn't

get
gross?


Yep. Same with my baby--but a black swell. You caught it in time
for the same reason I did--you are all up in Oscar's face, ha ha!
Those "pat 'em on the head and let 'em out the back door"
types do not notice things so fast. Hell, every night I take a
tissue and remove her eyecorner boogies.


My vet never actually did a biopsy; he gave me the choice of a biopsy
or simply treating it as though it was the "indolent ulcer" (that's the

term
he used) he suspected. The swelling went down very quickly after the

shot, so
I never looked back.


Man, for all their side effects, these steroids can be great. Not just
Depo for the cats, but the effect my Advair has on my lungs. Truly
miracle drugs, albeit to be used with care.


Honestly, Mo, when I looked at this little 7-lb tabby gasping for
breath on the carpet this morning I had this feeling like the bottom
was dropping out of my whole world. I love this cat way too much.


Maybe not *too* much. How can you love too much, unless you let the love

get
in the way of the object of your love's welfare?


Well let's say I love her too much for my own good given the fact that
her lifespan is shorter than mine. Hell, Gnarly was mean as a snake and
didn't even like humans and I still nearly died when she did.


As a result of Oscar's lip, I've now met all three vets at our clinic, two
female and one male. The guy is the senior vet; I gather he doesn't do

many
examinations anymore (I guess that means he's in surgery mostly?), but he

saw
Oscar about her lip for the first time. He actually brought a book into

the
examining room and showed me the section on "indolent ulcers," so I was

able
to read straight from his reference book and compare the pictures to Oscar
directly. Very cool. His whole manner was very calm and reassuring.

I'm glad that I've now met all three vets in a non-emergency situation; I

got
good vibes from all of them and would have no problems letting any of them
diagnose Oscar. Too bad they're not a 24-hour clinic =/


Your description of your vets inspires confidence. I'm glad you have good
ones. I am going to ask for this woman vet every time from now on--she
snuggled my girl while she gave her the shot, and for a long time afterward.
I have noticed that she is less traumatized today than she normally would be
from a vet visit. If she ever has to spend the night though, I will be on
the couch
in the waiting room!


  #8  
Old March 27th 05, 06:21 AM
Monique Y. Mudama
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On 2005-03-22, Mary penned:

"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message
...

That's certainly a reasonable assumption. There have been two occasions when
I felt bumps on the back of Cheeky's legs, and now this swollen lip, so she
is definitely in the recurring lesion category. (BTW, Oscar's was pink but
hers is black--because her lips are black. That weirded me out when I first
saw her because both Gnarly and Buddha have pink lips. It must be a gray
tabby thing.)


Hrmmm ...

*risks life and limb to peek at Oscar's lips*

I'd say they're actually dark purple. But the bump was definitely pink. I
think. Now I'm second guessing myself, but I remember thinking originally
that it might be her tongue sticking out, so it was definitely pink, at least
at first.

Maybe not *too* much. How can you love too much, unless you let the
love get in the way of the object of your love's welfare?


Well let's say I love her too much for my own good given the fact that
her lifespan is shorter than mine. Hell, Gnarly was mean as a snake
and didn't even like humans and I still nearly died when she did.


*nod*

This is exactly why dad didn't want us to get a dog when I was a kid. Of
course, mom and I won, and dad did most of the work, and all of us were
devastated when Puma finally passed away.

I'm glad that I've now met all three vets in a non-emergency
situation; I got good vibes from all of them and would have no
problems letting any of them diagnose Oscar. Too bad they're not a
24-hour clinic =/


Your description of your vets inspires confidence. I'm glad you have
good ones. I am going to ask for this woman vet every time from now
on--she snuggled my girl while she gave her the shot, and for a long
time afterward. I have noticed that she is less traumatized today
than she normally would be from a vet visit. If she ever has to spend
the night though, I will be on the couch in the waiting room!


It's so important to have a vet you can believe in.

Oscar's never had to stay at the vet's overnight; the only time she's ever
stayed there during the day was for her spay. I hope to keep it that way!


--
monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
  #9  
Old March 27th 05, 09:35 PM
Mary
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"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message
...
On 2005-03-22, Mary penned:

"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message
...

That's certainly a reasonable assumption. There have been two occasions

when
I felt bumps on the back of Cheeky's legs, and now this swollen lip, so

she
is definitely in the recurring lesion category. (BTW, Oscar's was pink

but
hers is black--because her lips are black. That weirded me out when I

first
saw her because both Gnarly and Buddha have pink lips. It must be a gray
tabby thing.)


Hrmmm ...

*risks life and limb to peek at Oscar's lips*


Hee!

I'd say they're actually dark purple.


I think we need a Cat Lips thread~!

But the bump was definitely pink.

Hmm. could be if Cheeks had gotten large enough
it might have been pink too. As it is, it shrank one
day after the Depo shot. What a wonder drug.


I
think. Now I'm second guessing myself, but I remember thinking originally
that it might be her tongue sticking out, so it was definitely pink, at

least
at first.

Maybe not *too* much. How can you love too much, unless you let the
love get in the way of the object of your love's welfare?


Well let's say I love her too much for my own good given the fact that
her lifespan is shorter than mine. Hell, Gnarly was mean as a snake
and didn't even like humans and I still nearly died when she did.


*nod*


Well, at least she can't escape unless I open the door. G That
way "all" I have to worry about is illness and death.



This is exactly why dad didn't want us to get a dog when I was a kid. Of
course, mom and I won, and dad did most of the work, and all of us were
devastated when Puma finally passed away.


In a way though, having this happen as a child is good training for
what happens later in life when you lose other animals that you
love--the human type. A harsh lesson but useful. The lesson of
course is not "do not love" but "love and learn to let go when you
have to." Something forever white is not therefore the whiter,"
as Aristotle once said. Or was it Woody Allen? G




 




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