If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Gee wrote:
"Kristine Kochanski" wrote in message ... Just wondering what the general consensus was on cat shows? I ask because I attended one the other day and was quite upset at seeing distressed, miserable cats kept in 2ft cages for hours, with hundreds of strangers (me included!) milling around staring and cooing at them - and men in white coats pulling them out and poking, stretching and prodding them. This can't be good for a cat! Every cat was obviously incredibly loved and pampered, I just find this act of 'showing' rather uneasy. Firstly, how can you judge a cat on appearance? Aren't they all beautiful whether they have a certificate that says so or not? I sooo agree with your comment. I just can;t see how one cat is more beautiful than the other. If you love animals you love them all, or you don't love animals. It's simple really. Oh for goodness sake what a silly thing to say. I don't like all animals but would class myself as an animal lover. I don't like spiders and there are some breeds of dog I dislike, but I still like animals. Secondly, should people, in this so-called civilised day and age, be *rewarded* for inbreeding? For example, the flatness of a Persian cat's face really upsets me ( Totally, various purebred animals (cats and dogs) have so many breed-associatted problems that instead of helping them overcome them, those crazy people keep emphasising and enlarging the issues for the sake of money and fame of a human! I do wonder sometimes if breeders do LOVE their animals, or are they in it just for the money. I left the show feeling quite bewildered and negative and I'm sure I will never attend such an event again. Nor me. I am all for equality in all respects for everyone, and this competition thing (animals , people anything really) is just very pathetic. There is a place for everyone in this world. Any breeders care to comment? I'm not a breeder, God forbid, all of mine have been done as soon as they walked into my life. Dare say they will claim the cats enjoy the experience. I can;t see how they would. Cats are territorial animals and feel very uncomfortable to downright scared on any new territory. And if that new territory contains millions of other strange cats, I can just imagine what exactly poor cat is thinking and feeling, terrified and stressed! That is called anthropomorphising and not a good thing. So I fail to understand breed shows as well, and who exactly benefits from them. However I do like to watch agility shows. HAve you ever *been* to a cat show Gee? |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Kristine Kochanski wrote:
Like Alison said, you get good ones and bad ones. I don't doubt any of the breeders at the show I visited loved their cats, but I can't understand how having a cat in a cage for hours (and the stress of being driven there) all of my cats will get into the car if they get a chance and enjoy being taken for a drive. No stress at all. Some breeds obviously are more docile and handle the experience better, but cats in general do not like being trapped in a strange environment and stared at. I don't tink you were looking properly at the cats. I think you decided what they were feeling and made your mind up on that basis. I can;t see how they would. Cats are territorial animals and feel very uncomfortable to downright scared on any new territory. Show cats are very used to the routine and not at all stressed. They have their own blanket and litter and the owner is nearby. And if that new territory contains millions of other strange cats, Bloody hell what show was this were a million cats were being exhibited????? I can just imagine what exactly poor cat is thinking and feeling, terrified and stressed! Do not anthropomorphise. So I fail to understand breed shows as well, and who exactly benefits from them. Thanks for your comments! I half expected to be flamed... Happy to oblige :0) However I do like to watch agility shows. Awww those poor doggies being *frced* to run about and get their legs jarred when the seesaw bangs down, and being forced to weave and bend and go through tunnels when everyone knows that dogs hate going into dark tunnels and would prefer to be at home on familiar ground. The stress of going in the car for hours and being at big noisy scary show halls is simply cruel. They bark and yelp in panic all the way round the course. I watched a programme on TV about police dogs the other week and was in total awe of the job those dogs do. They obviously do get a kick out of working and being rewarded. They do indeed. They get a kick, or jerked with the choke chain or hanged till they go unconscious. Shame when one of them died from it a few years back isn't it? But you are sure they enjoy it all just like you are sure the cats don't enjoy it. That's a totally different thing to sticking them in a box and deciding whether they're 'better' than the one down the next row. They get stuck in a sack and beaten into submission, but I'm sure they enjoy it really. |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Kristine Kochanski wrote:
Like Alison said, you get good ones and bad ones. I don't doubt any of the breeders at the show I visited loved their cats, but I can't understand how having a cat in a cage for hours (and the stress of being driven there) all of my cats will get into the car if they get a chance and enjoy being taken for a drive. No stress at all. Some breeds obviously are more docile and handle the experience better, but cats in general do not like being trapped in a strange environment and stared at. I don't tink you were looking properly at the cats. I think you decided what they were feeling and made your mind up on that basis. I can;t see how they would. Cats are territorial animals and feel very uncomfortable to downright scared on any new territory. Show cats are very used to the routine and not at all stressed. They have their own blanket and litter and the owner is nearby. And if that new territory contains millions of other strange cats, Bloody hell what show was this were a million cats were being exhibited????? I can just imagine what exactly poor cat is thinking and feeling, terrified and stressed! Do not anthropomorphise. So I fail to understand breed shows as well, and who exactly benefits from them. Thanks for your comments! I half expected to be flamed... Happy to oblige :0) However I do like to watch agility shows. Awww those poor doggies being *frced* to run about and get their legs jarred when the seesaw bangs down, and being forced to weave and bend and go through tunnels when everyone knows that dogs hate going into dark tunnels and would prefer to be at home on familiar ground. The stress of going in the car for hours and being at big noisy scary show halls is simply cruel. They bark and yelp in panic all the way round the course. I watched a programme on TV about police dogs the other week and was in total awe of the job those dogs do. They obviously do get a kick out of working and being rewarded. They do indeed. They get a kick, or jerked with the choke chain or hanged till they go unconscious. Shame when one of them died from it a few years back isn't it? But you are sure they enjoy it all just like you are sure the cats don't enjoy it. That's a totally different thing to sticking them in a box and deciding whether they're 'better' than the one down the next row. They get stuck in a sack and beaten into submission, but I'm sure they enjoy it really. |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:03:23 +0100, good golly Ms Molly
wrote: Kristine Kochanski wrote: Just wondering what the general consensus was on cat shows? I ask because I attended one the other day and was quite upset at seeing distressed, miserable cats kept in 2ft cages for hours, with hundreds of strangers (me included!) milling around staring and cooing at them I think you are rather over reacting here. Most of them are quite used to shows and simply go to sleep in their cages.Perhaps you only saw what you wanted to see. Funny, that's exactly what I thought of the people who seemed to imagine their cats enjoyed the experience. - and men in white coats pulling them out and poking, stretching and prodding them. Judges do not pull,poke and prod ect. How could you have seen this when judging is done behind closed doors normally? I saw the cats being judged. Two 'officials' in white coats going around pulling the cats from the cages holding them up, looking at their bumholes and yanking their jaws apart. Hmm, that's not scary for a cat at all is it. This can't be good for a cat! Whay do you say this? And why do you use an exclamatian mark to emphasise it? Do you really want me to explain or are just being facetious like the rest of your post? Firstly, how can you judge a cat on appearance? Easy, you read and learn the breed standard and see if the cat you are judging follows this in most respects. Can't decide if that's just patronising or you trying to be sarcastic and patrionising. Aren't they all beautiful whether they have a certificate that says so or not? A certificate doesn't say the cat is beautiful, it says that the cat closely follows the breed standard with respect to physical appearance. Secondly, should people, in this so-called civilised day and age, be *rewarded* for inbreeding? For example, the flatness of a Persian cat's face really upsets me ( So don't buy a persian. What is inbreeding? Ditto. I left the show feeling quite bewildered and negative and I'm sure I will never attend such an event again. Probably a good thing as you are too delicate to be allowed outside in modern society . Uh-huh. Any breeders care to comment? Dare say they will claim the cats enjoy the experience. But looking at them and listening to their distressed mewing - and having a fair understanding of cat behaviour and psychology - I fail to understand this. You obviously have *no* understanding of cat behaviour. How wrong you are. You probably Please don't make assumptions. have one overweight pampered moggy at home and assume that the world is a nice place full of nice people where nice things happen every day. What a stupid thing to say. What has that got to do with the price of fish? And no, I neither breed nor show cats, but have been to several cat shows because I like cats and have several of them. I didn't see any of the unhappiness or distress you saw, but then I wasn't trying to read things into things.Most of the cats I saw were wither asleep in their cages or purring like crazy and rubbibg their head against any hand put near the bars quite calmly and happily. Perhaps it was your po faced presence upsetting the cats? That look of supercilious disapproval on your face would have scared and unsettled them no doubt. Thanks for you highly knowledgable and insightful comments, I learned a lot there. |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:03:23 +0100, good golly Ms Molly
wrote: Kristine Kochanski wrote: Just wondering what the general consensus was on cat shows? I ask because I attended one the other day and was quite upset at seeing distressed, miserable cats kept in 2ft cages for hours, with hundreds of strangers (me included!) milling around staring and cooing at them I think you are rather over reacting here. Most of them are quite used to shows and simply go to sleep in their cages.Perhaps you only saw what you wanted to see. Funny, that's exactly what I thought of the people who seemed to imagine their cats enjoyed the experience. - and men in white coats pulling them out and poking, stretching and prodding them. Judges do not pull,poke and prod ect. How could you have seen this when judging is done behind closed doors normally? I saw the cats being judged. Two 'officials' in white coats going around pulling the cats from the cages holding them up, looking at their bumholes and yanking their jaws apart. Hmm, that's not scary for a cat at all is it. This can't be good for a cat! Whay do you say this? And why do you use an exclamatian mark to emphasise it? Do you really want me to explain or are just being facetious like the rest of your post? Firstly, how can you judge a cat on appearance? Easy, you read and learn the breed standard and see if the cat you are judging follows this in most respects. Can't decide if that's just patronising or you trying to be sarcastic and patrionising. Aren't they all beautiful whether they have a certificate that says so or not? A certificate doesn't say the cat is beautiful, it says that the cat closely follows the breed standard with respect to physical appearance. Secondly, should people, in this so-called civilised day and age, be *rewarded* for inbreeding? For example, the flatness of a Persian cat's face really upsets me ( So don't buy a persian. What is inbreeding? Ditto. I left the show feeling quite bewildered and negative and I'm sure I will never attend such an event again. Probably a good thing as you are too delicate to be allowed outside in modern society . Uh-huh. Any breeders care to comment? Dare say they will claim the cats enjoy the experience. But looking at them and listening to their distressed mewing - and having a fair understanding of cat behaviour and psychology - I fail to understand this. You obviously have *no* understanding of cat behaviour. How wrong you are. You probably Please don't make assumptions. have one overweight pampered moggy at home and assume that the world is a nice place full of nice people where nice things happen every day. What a stupid thing to say. What has that got to do with the price of fish? And no, I neither breed nor show cats, but have been to several cat shows because I like cats and have several of them. I didn't see any of the unhappiness or distress you saw, but then I wasn't trying to read things into things.Most of the cats I saw were wither asleep in their cages or purring like crazy and rubbibg their head against any hand put near the bars quite calmly and happily. Perhaps it was your po faced presence upsetting the cats? That look of supercilious disapproval on your face would have scared and unsettled them no doubt. Thanks for you highly knowledgable and insightful comments, I learned a lot there. |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:16:46 +0100, good golly Ms Molly
wrote: I don't tink So it seems. Oh well. Shame. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:16:46 +0100, good golly Ms Molly
wrote: I don't tink So it seems. Oh well. Shame. |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
In article , oldmolly1955
@REMOVETHISbitches.co.uk enlightened us with... Kristine Kochanski wrote: You obviously have *no* understanding of cat behaviour. You probably have one overweight pampered moggy at home and assume that the world is a nice place full of nice people where nice things happen every day. And YOU assume that cat shows in the States are the same as in the UK. They are not, from what you've said. The judges DO judge in front of everyone, not behind closed doors (at least at the ones I went to). And the cats don't look overly pleased while they're being held aloft for all to see. Nor do many of them look pleased to be cooped up in tiny cages for hours on end (no one in the general public can touch them, as they might spread disease). This is life. One day of being not-so- thrilled once in awhile for many, many days of pampered joy. I think they'll live. *g* Remember, we think declawing is perfectly okay over here. Don't assume our cat shows are all that wonderful, either. Also, I'd bet that different shows are different. We have many shows put on by different clubs. I would bet they are run differently. The OP could have gone to a big show or a tiny one. I don't believe (s)he specified. My guess is that the big breed shows in the big cities run things a lot differently than the small local ones in a small township. [YMMV; I've only been to three local shows here in the States and none in the UK.] -- -- ~kaeli~ A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
In article , oldmolly1955
@REMOVETHISbitches.co.uk enlightened us with... Kristine Kochanski wrote: You obviously have *no* understanding of cat behaviour. You probably have one overweight pampered moggy at home and assume that the world is a nice place full of nice people where nice things happen every day. And YOU assume that cat shows in the States are the same as in the UK. They are not, from what you've said. The judges DO judge in front of everyone, not behind closed doors (at least at the ones I went to). And the cats don't look overly pleased while they're being held aloft for all to see. Nor do many of them look pleased to be cooped up in tiny cages for hours on end (no one in the general public can touch them, as they might spread disease). This is life. One day of being not-so- thrilled once in awhile for many, many days of pampered joy. I think they'll live. *g* Remember, we think declawing is perfectly okay over here. Don't assume our cat shows are all that wonderful, either. Also, I'd bet that different shows are different. We have many shows put on by different clubs. I would bet they are run differently. The OP could have gone to a big show or a tiny one. I don't believe (s)he specified. My guess is that the big breed shows in the big cities run things a lot differently than the small local ones in a small township. [YMMV; I've only been to three local shows here in the States and none in the UK.] -- -- ~kaeli~ A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
In article , oldmolly1955
@REMOVETHISbitches.co.uk enlightened us with... However I do like to watch agility shows. Awww those poor doggies being *frced* to run about and get their legs jarred when the seesaw bangs down, and being forced to weave and bend and go through tunnels when everyone knows that dogs hate going into dark tunnels and would prefer to be at home on familiar ground. The stress of going in the car for hours and being at big noisy scary show halls is simply cruel. They bark and yelp in panic all the way round the course. God, I hope you were being sarcastic to try to make some point that was lost. Dogs adore agility. No one forces them. It's all positive training with treats, unless some neanderthals somewhere are still using force training. I know of no trainers who still use that for agility. A dog works best without fear. I watched a programme on TV about police dogs the other week and was in total awe of the job those dogs do. They obviously do get a kick out of working and being rewarded. They do indeed. They get a kick, or jerked with the choke chain or hanged till they go unconscious. Shame when one of them died from it a few years back isn't it? That was indeed the old way of training (koehler). Sad, eh? That was why police dogs couldn't be brought into public without muzzles on. Of course, most places have stopped such barbarism these days. But you wouldn't be in touch with the last 15 years or so, I guess. Still watching 20 year old American programs over on that side of the pond? -- -- ~kaeli~ To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
High everybody-looking for the website that shows CARB and PROTEIN content for kitty food! thanks. | edirol | Cat health & behaviour | 14 | September 14th 04 11:02 PM |
Las Vegas OT | Bev | Cat anecdotes | 28 | May 11th 04 07:20 PM |
Mighty huntress shows mighty annoyance ;-) | dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers | Cat anecdotes | 2 | November 12th 03 11:50 AM |