[OT] Posting Frequency

"Steve G" wrote in message
ups.com...

Helen wrote:
(...)
(Wellness, wouldn't feed it ever)

Why not? (Well, other than you can't get it in the UK!).

Too complicated a food, too many unnecessary ingredients. That name even.
All these things are designed to appeal to humans, not to cats.

Garlic: may cause Heinz body anaemia. Some people think only onion can do
this, but others think garlic - as a member of the onion family - may also
be risky, so (having had an anaemic cat once before) I just won't take the
chance. Several people on a list I'm on have asked Wellness repeatedly
exactly how much garlic is in their food, and what studies they have stating
that it's safe. They don't know. They have no studies.

Alfafa - has also been associated with Heinz body anaemia in large
quantities. Wellness probably doesn't contain much, but why does it contain
any?

Flax seed - cats cannot process this:
http://www.felinecrf.org/holistic_tr...#flax_seed_oil

Spirulina and Norwegian Kelp: I understand these are sometimes used for
thyroid problems, but why feed to a cat without thyroid problems?

Chondroitin Sulfate and Glucosamine - for arthritis. Great if your cat has
arthritis, pointless otherwise. How many young cats really need these?

Vitamin A Acetate - a synthetic form of vitamin A which is hard to
metabolise - natural sources in meat would be better.

Rosemary - an antispasmodic (er, why?)

Cranberries which are for acidifying the urine, though the last I heard
there's no proof they are helpful in cats.

Sweet potatoes, zucchini, blueberries, carrots etc. Ever see a cat raid the
vegetable patch or fruit trees? Cats just don't need these; but they appeal
to the humans who buy the food.

There is rice in the dry food. Cats are obligate carnivores. They need meat,
not veggies and herbs or rice. However, it's kind of hard to make dry food
without carbs. Wellness did add rice to the canned food too, but I
understand they've removed it again after complaints.

I know Wellness is a very popular food on this ng, and that I'm in a
minority here. On the lists I'm on, Wellness is not viewed as favourably
though. I'm not trying to persuade anyone of anything, or frighten anybody.
I just think it's overhyped and not as good a food as it's supposed to be.
YMMV.

HTH

Helen (and actually I could get Wellness if I wanted to, but I don't)

Rosemary - an antispasmodic (er, why?)

Cranberries which are for acidifying the urine, though the last I
heard
there's no proof they are helpful in cats.

Helen, I think Rosemary is used as a preservative. Or it is in the dry
form foods anyway; I'm not sure about the canned. Were you discussion
the canned specifically? As far as cranberries, it looks to me like the
cat would have to consume an awful lot of that food to get any of the
benefits of cranberry, and if we *are* talking about dry, all it does
is acidify the food and I've read that acified dry food is bad on its
own for crystal formation UT health. It also seems bizarre to me to
add vegetables and herbs to cat food. Many people here say their cats
do well on Wellness. I bought it twice; the first time they ate it
okay, then started turning it down.

I also think it's just bizarre to add vegetables and herbs to cat
food. To each his own. I understand a lot of people here have cats who
do well on it. Maybe someone can elaborate why they add all that stuff.

Sherry

"Helen" wrote in
:

I know Wellness is a very popular food on this ng, and that I'm in a
minority here. On the lists I'm on, Wellness is not viewed as
favourably though. I'm not trying to persuade anyone of anything, or
frighten anybody. I just think it's overhyped and not as good a food
as it's supposed to be. YMMV.


Helen, what food brands do you think are best for cats?

--
Catherine
& Rosalie the calico

"ceb" wrote in message
...
Helen, what food brands do you think are best for cats?

Oh I'm no expert, Catherine, and I am also limited because Harpsie has food
allergies. I currently feed Triumph and Nutro canned food because the first
ingredients are meat and Harpsie can tolerate them. I think canned food is
by far the best food for cats, however, I do leave dry food down too for
them to nibble on when I'm out or asleep. I used to feed Royal Canin but
they are so bad since the Waltham takeover, Harpsie now reacts to all their
foods, so currently I feed a prescription dry food for allergies (IVD).

HTH

Helen

Helen wrote:
"Steve G" wrote in message
ups.com...

(...)

Why not? (Well, other than you can't get it in the UK!).

Too complicated a food, too many unnecessary ingredients. That name
even.
All these things are designed to appeal to humans, not to cats.

Well, certainly the name / design is intended to appeal to humans - but
that's true of all cat foods.


Garlic: may cause Heinz body anaemia. Some people think only onion
can do
this, but others think garlic - as a member of the onion family - may
also
be risky, so (having had an anaemic cat once before) I just won't
take the
chance. Several people on a list I'm on have asked Wellness
repeatedly
exactly how much garlic is in their food, and what studies they have
stating
that it's safe. They don't know. They have no studies.

Interesting. A lit search suggests garlic may indeed be a cause for
concern: Yamato et al. (2003; Biosci Biotechnol Biochem 67: 1594-1596)
isolated sodium 2-propenyl thiosulphate (mmm, nice on kebabs) from
garlic, and found that this compound did indeed cause oxidative damage
in dog RBCs. There also exist a few papers on dogs (Yamato et al.,
2005; J Am Anim Hosp Assoc 41: 68-73; Lee et al., 2000; Am J Vet Res
61: 1446-1450) and horses (Pearson et al., 2005; Am J Vet Res 66:
457-465) showing that garlic ingestion can lead to Heinz body anaemia.
In horses, a dose of .2g garlic/kg of bodyweight, fed over 71 days,
led to anaemia. In dogs, Lee et al. found that 1.25ml of garlic extract
/kg of bodyweight, fed to dogs over 7 days, led to Heinz body formation
- but no haemolytic anaemia.

So - have OMH ever given a value for quantity of garlic in their foods?
(They must know this, even if they do not know if the quantity is
safe?)

TBH, I suspect the levels will be 'safe', otherwise there would
presumably be instances of Wellness-induced anaemia. Still, sounds like
a black mark.


Alfafa - has also been associated with Heinz body anaemia in large
quantities. Wellness probably doesn't contain much, but why does it
contain
any?

Carb source - all cat food has one (or more).

(...)

Chondroitin Sulfate and Glucosamine - for arthritis. Great if your
cat has
arthritis, pointless otherwise. How many young cats really need
these?

AFAIK, (canned) Wellness does not contain these - and I would be
surprised if it did, given the high cost of these ingredients (well, I
think it's the chrondroitin that's the expensive one?). Anecdotally, in
humans, glucosamine / chrondroitin is suggested to be of use for
conditions other than arthritis (e.g., tendonitis / tendinosis)
although whether that's of relevance to cats is another pot of fish...


Rosemary - an antispasmodic (er, why?)

Again, AFAIK, this is not in (canned) Wellness.


Cranberries which are for acidifying the urine, though the last I
heard
there's no proof they are helpful in cats.

Sweet potatoes, zucchini, blueberries, carrots etc. Ever see a cat
raid the
vegetable patch or fruit trees? Cats just don't need these; but they
appeal
to the humans who buy the food.

Actually, my cats run a protection racket on the local greengrocers. It
a step or two up from veggie patch raids.

Yes - although *all* cat food contains carbs of some description. True
that Wellness contains carbs from a variety of sources.

(...)

Helen (and actually I could get Wellness if I wanted to, but I don't)

What, get it flown in specially??

Ta for the info,

Steve.

"Steve G" wrote in message
ups.com...

Helen wrote:
"Steve G" wrote in message
ups.com...

(...)

Why not? (Well, other than you can't get it in the UK!).

Too complicated a food, too many unnecessary ingredients. That name
even.
All these things are designed to appeal to humans, not to cats.

Well, certainly the name / design is intended to appeal to humans - but
that's true of all cat foods.

True, but I like the idea of foods that appeal to me and are appropriate for
felines (-;

Garlic: may cause Heinz body anaemia. Some people think only onion
can do
this, but others think garlic - as a member of the onion family - may
also
be risky, so (having had an anaemic cat once before) I just won't
take the
chance. Several people on a list I'm on have asked Wellness
repeatedly
exactly how much garlic is in their food, and what studies they have
stating
that it's safe. They don't know. They have no studies.

Interesting. A lit search suggests garlic may indeed be a cause for
concern: Yamato et al. (2003; Biosci Biotechnol Biochem 67: 1594-1596)
isolated sodium 2-propenyl thiosulphate (mmm, nice on kebabs) from
garlic, and found that this compound did indeed cause oxidative damage
in dog RBCs. There also exist a few papers on dogs (Yamato et al.,
2005; J Am Anim Hosp Assoc 41: 68-73; Lee et al., 2000; Am J Vet Res
61: 1446-1450) and horses (Pearson et al., 2005; Am J Vet Res 66:
457-465) showing that garlic ingestion can lead to Heinz body anaemia.
In horses, a dose of .2g garlic/kg of bodyweight, fed over 71 days,
led to anaemia. In dogs, Lee et al. found that 1.25ml of garlic extract
/kg of bodyweight, fed to dogs over 7 days, led to Heinz body formation
- but no haemolytic anaemia.

And cats are more prone to develop Heinz body anaemia than other species.

So - have OMH ever given a value for quantity of garlic in their foods?
(They must know this, even if they do not know if the quantity is
safe?)

Several people on the list I mentioned have asked them over the years and
have simply received the response "a safe amount". But when they ask what is
a safe amount and how this has been determined in tests, and where they can
find the results of those tests, they receive no response.

TBH, I suspect the levels will be 'safe', otherwise there would
presumably be instances of Wellness-induced anaemia. Still, sounds like
a black mark.

I think so. In addition to cats generally being more prone to developing
Heinz body anaemia than dogs and humans, some cats are simply more
susceptible to Heinz body anaemia than others; and how do you know if your
cat falls into that category? But also, why put something in the food that
is potentially risky. Just leave it out, there's no obvious benefit except
that it appeals to humans (who've heard about the "health-giving properties"
of garlic, of course).

Alfafa - has also been associated with Heinz body anaemia in large
quantities. Wellness probably doesn't contain much, but why does it
contain
any?

Carb source - all cat food has one (or more).

They say it's for fibre purposes, but there are far better sources. They
also claim it "cleanses kidneys" but I've lived and breathed feline CRF for
over five years and have yet to come across any evidence to support that
statement.

(...)

Chondroitin Sulfate and Glucosamine - for arthritis. Great if your
cat has
arthritis, pointless otherwise. How many young cats really need
these?

AFAIK, (canned) Wellness does not contain these - and I would be
surprised if it did, given the high cost of these ingredients (well, I
think it's the chrondroitin that's the expensive one?). Anecdotally, in
humans, glucosamine / chrondroitin is suggested to be of use for
conditions other than arthritis (e.g., tendonitis / tendinosis)
although whether that's of relevance to cats is another pot of fish...

It's in the dry food:

http://www.omhpet.com/cats/wellness_...ryCatSup5Adult

Rosemary - an antispasmodic (er, why?)

Again, AFAIK, this is not in (canned) Wellness.

No, it's in the dry though.

Cranberries which are for acidifying the urine, though the last I
heard
there's no proof they are helpful in cats.

Sweet potatoes, zucchini, blueberries, carrots etc. Ever see a cat
raid the
vegetable patch or fruit trees? Cats just don't need these; but they
appeal
to the humans who buy the food.

Actually, my cats run a protection racket on the local greengrocers. It
a step or two up from veggie patch raids.

I might have known your cats would be skilled operators (-;

Yes - although *all* cat food contains carbs of some description. True
that Wellness contains carbs from a variety of sources.

Yes, some carbs are inevitable. But I still believe Wellness is
unnecessarily complicated.

(...)

Helen (and actually I could get Wellness if I wanted to, but I don't)

What, get it flown in specially??

Now you of all people should know it's possible to have an address in one
country and live in another (-;

Ta for the info,

You're welcome

Helen

Steve.

Helen wrote:
"Steve G" wrote in message
ups.com...
(...)

Alfafa -
(...)

They say it's for fibre purposes, but there are far better sources.

What's the problem? I don't know the proportion of insoluble to soluble
fibre in alfafa, and I suppose that could, in principle, be a problem.
Then again, it's not the only fibre source and the total fibre content
of Wellness is quite low.

Chondroitin Sulfate and Glucosamine
(...)

AFAIK, (canned) Wellness does not contain these -
(...)

It's in the dry food:


Probably only in small quantities? Mind you, I don't think there are
any problems per se with routine glucosamine / chrondroitin
supplementation - in humans, or cats.

(...)
Yes - although *all* cat food contains carbs of some description.
True
that Wellness contains carbs from a variety of sources.

Yes, some carbs are inevitable. But I still believe Wellness is
unnecessarily complicated.

Though 'complexity' can be good in that it gets the animal used to
eating a variety of foods, much as they would in the wild.

(...)

Now you of all people should know it's possible to have an address in
one
country and live in another (-;

Indeed. Thought you were back in the UK at the moment though.

S.