Female Improper Urinating... Wits' End...

We've had a tortie for most of her eight years of life. For most of that
time we've had a Siamese male as well. Over the last three years we've
taken in three strays, one of whom ran off last summer, leaving us with
four of the little dears. Two males, two females, ranging from two to
eight years old. The males are neutered, Frankie (the tortie) is spayed.
All of our cats are kept indoors as the neighborhood is dangerous on
account of traffic. We also have a Pekingese, who gets along famously
with all the cats. In fact, we think he believes he is a cat himself.

Frankie however has a most obnoxious habit of urinating in inappropriate
places. She prefers surfaces -- end tables, the top of the deep freezer,
the piano bench, window sills, etc., and anything that seems to be
"someone else's" on the floor. By the latter I mean things like dirty
laundry, a toy one of the other cats like (we can't have catnip in the
house in any form), a Christmas tree ornament that fell off, a piece of
paper, inside shoes, and more recently, on the kitchen counter.

Needless to say this is getting old, and we are at a loss of what to do
with her. This has been going on for years now. At times (such as last
summer when one of our refugees ran away) her habit subsides, but
invariably it ramps up again. It is now a daily occurrence, if not more
than that.

Aside from the Siamese, who is effectively her "brother", we believe she
is jealous of the others. I know I'm anthropomorphizing, but the
apparent explanation of her actions as retaliation are numerous. If one
of the young cats plays with a milk ring, the next morning it will be in
a puddle of ****. If one of the cats has a chase with her, we will find
a mess somewhere soon after.

I have read several websites that discuss the matter; we have ruled out
physiological problems. Litter boxes are plentiful and well maintained.
For cleansers we have tried enzyme cleaners etc., and although they do
help remove the odor they only temporarily stop her from reusing the
same spot on the floor, table, piano, freezer, etc. Although each of the
other cats has had a moment or two of inappropriate urination, we have
caught Frankie at this numerous times.

We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?


--
Smartin

on Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:54:50 GMT, Smartin wrote:

We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?

I have always heard that there is a high rate of schizophrenia among
torties (& calicos). I'm not sure if this is true, but I've certainly met
enough torties who were insane that I tend to believe it.

I'm not a proponent of throwing drugs at problems, but if there is a real
need, it may be worth looking into. I wonder if there are any psychotropic
drugs that would help with the problem. Phil?

--
Lynne

All I can tell you is that my tortoiseshell does the same thing. She's the
odd one out of my three cats -- the other two are littermates. She's a
sweetheart, but she pees on laundry, as you say yours does, and doormats,
and the back door, and it does appear to be a territorial/ownership
behavior. So we don't have any doormats and we lock up the laundry. While
we were out of town for a couple of weeks over the holidays, she started
peeing on the kitchen mat, so that's been washed and put away, too. This
particular cat is a very odd cat in many respects. But it does seem to be
predictable that the more stressed or bored she is, the more she marks.

Another of my cats, a neutered black male, used to mark when he was a baby,
but I somehow managed to train him to stop, or he stopped on his own, years
ago. (He recently developed OCD, though. "Bald belly syndrome." Licks the
hair off his tummy.)

I used to have a tortie who peed in houseplants -- that was the *worst*.

It's always something.

ep


"Smartin" wrote in message
...
We've had a tortie for most of her eight years of life. For most of that
time we've had a Siamese male as well. Over the last three years we've
taken in three strays, one of whom ran off last summer, leaving us with
four of the little dears. Two males, two females, ranging from two to
eight years old. The males are neutered, Frankie (the tortie) is spayed.
All of our cats are kept indoors as the neighborhood is dangerous on
account of traffic. We also have a Pekingese, who gets along famously with
all the cats. In fact, we think he believes he is a cat himself.

Frankie however has a most obnoxious habit of urinating in inappropriate
places. She prefers surfaces -- end tables, the top of the deep freezer,
the piano bench, window sills, etc., and anything that seems to be
"someone else's" on the floor. By the latter I mean things like dirty
laundry, a toy one of the other cats like (we can't have catnip in the
house in any form), a Christmas tree ornament that fell off, a piece of
paper, inside shoes, and more recently, on the kitchen counter.

Needless to say this is getting old, and we are at a loss of what to do
with her. This has been going on for years now. At times (such as last
summer when one of our refugees ran away) her habit subsides, but
invariably it ramps up again. It is now a daily occurrence, if not more
than that.

Aside from the Siamese, who is effectively her "brother", we believe she
is jealous of the others. I know I'm anthropomorphizing, but the apparent
explanation of her actions as retaliation are numerous. If one of the
young cats plays with a milk ring, the next morning it will be in a puddle
of ****. If one of the cats has a chase with her, we will find a mess
somewhere soon after.

I have read several websites that discuss the matter; we have ruled out
physiological problems. Litter boxes are plentiful and well maintained.
For cleansers we have tried enzyme cleaners etc., and although they do
help remove the odor they only temporarily stop her from reusing the same
spot on the floor, table, piano, freezer, etc. Although each of the other
cats has had a moment or two of inappropriate urination, we have caught
Frankie at this numerous times.

We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?


--
Smartin

Lynne wrote:
on Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:54:50 GMT, Smartin wrote:

We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?

I have always heard that there is a high rate of schizophrenia among
torties (& calicos). I'm not sure if this is true, but I've certainly met
enough torties who were insane that I tend to believe it.

Funny you should say that as we often remark on how she seems to be
hallucinating. She is still playful at her age. When she's in a mood,
her eyes become big as quarters before she pounces on objects present or
otherwise. She's not vicious in any way, but is definitely the loner of
the group, although she will curl up on the furniture with any of the
aforementioned pets.


I'm not a proponent of throwing drugs at problems, but if there is a real
need, it may be worth looking into. I wonder if there are any psychotropic
drugs that would help with the problem. Phil?


I'm a little skittish of drugs, perhaps because I've only heard they
don't work, and I'm afraid of the expense. I'm willing to entertain
options though. We have kept her this long because we feel a
responsibility, having owned her since she was only four weeks.



--
Smartin

Aaah, houseplants. I forgot to mention they have been a frequent target
of hers as well. And should a plant get upset onto the floor, we could
count on the dirt becoming soiled practically instantaneously.

She (thankfully) doesn't hit the rugs, at least not since we tore out
the living room carpet years ago. But any stray object on the floor
invariably becomes hers.

Thanks to everyone who replied.

Edna Pearl wrote:
All I can tell you is that my tortoiseshell does the same thing. She's the
odd one out of my three cats -- the other two are littermates. She's a
sweetheart, but she pees on laundry, as you say yours does, and doormats,
and the back door, and it does appear to be a territorial/ownership
behavior. So we don't have any doormats and we lock up the laundry. While
we were out of town for a couple of weeks over the holidays, she started
peeing on the kitchen mat, so that's been washed and put away, too. This
particular cat is a very odd cat in many respects. But it does seem to be
predictable that the more stressed or bored she is, the more she marks.

Another of my cats, a neutered black male, used to mark when he was a baby,
but I somehow managed to train him to stop, or he stopped on his own, years
ago. (He recently developed OCD, though. "Bald belly syndrome." Licks the
hair off his tummy.)

I used to have a tortie who peed in houseplants -- that was the *worst*.

It's always something.

ep


"Smartin" wrote in message
...
We've had a tortie for most of her eight years of life. For most of that
time we've had a Siamese male as well. Over the last three years we've
taken in three strays, one of whom ran off last summer, leaving us with
four of the little dears. Two males, two females, ranging from two to
eight years old. The males are neutered, Frankie (the tortie) is spayed.
All of our cats are kept indoors as the neighborhood is dangerous on
account of traffic. We also have a Pekingese, who gets along famously with
all the cats. In fact, we think he believes he is a cat himself.

Frankie however has a most obnoxious habit of urinating in inappropriate
places. She prefers surfaces -- end tables, the top of the deep freezer,
the piano bench, window sills, etc., and anything that seems to be
"someone else's" on the floor. By the latter I mean things like dirty
laundry, a toy one of the other cats like (we can't have catnip in the
house in any form), a Christmas tree ornament that fell off, a piece of
paper, inside shoes, and more recently, on the kitchen counter.

Needless to say this is getting old, and we are at a loss of what to do
with her. This has been going on for years now. At times (such as last
summer when one of our refugees ran away) her habit subsides, but
invariably it ramps up again. It is now a daily occurrence, if not more
than that.

Aside from the Siamese, who is effectively her "brother", we believe she
is jealous of the others. I know I'm anthropomorphizing, but the apparent
explanation of her actions as retaliation are numerous. If one of the
young cats plays with a milk ring, the next morning it will be in a puddle
of ****. If one of the cats has a chase with her, we will find a mess
somewhere soon after.

I have read several websites that discuss the matter; we have ruled out
physiological problems. Litter boxes are plentiful and well maintained.
For cleansers we have tried enzyme cleaners etc., and although they do
help remove the odor they only temporarily stop her from reusing the same
spot on the floor, table, piano, freezer, etc. Although each of the other
cats has had a moment or two of inappropriate urination, we have caught
Frankie at this numerous times.

We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?


--
Smartin




--
Smartin

Has she seen a vet specifically for the urination problem and have physical
problems been ruled out by the vet? If so, I would try having her placed on
an anti-anxiety medication or an anti-depressant medication. There is such a
condition as interstitial cystitis that can be helped by those medications
(and they may also help with anxiety in the cat). Talk with your vet about
this.
Gail
"Smartin" wrote in message
...
Aaah, houseplants. I forgot to mention they have been a frequent target of
hers as well. And should a plant get upset onto the floor, we could count
on the dirt becoming soiled practically instantaneously.

She (thankfully) doesn't hit the rugs, at least not since we tore out the
living room carpet years ago. But any stray object on the floor invariably
becomes hers.

Thanks to everyone who replied.

Edna Pearl wrote:
All I can tell you is that my tortoiseshell does the same thing. She's
the odd one out of my three cats -- the other two are littermates. She's
a sweetheart, but she pees on laundry, as you say yours does, and
doormats, and the back door, and it does appear to be a
territorial/ownership behavior. So we don't have any doormats and we
lock up the laundry. While we were out of town for a couple of weeks
over the holidays, she started peeing on the kitchen mat, so that's been
washed and put away, too. This particular cat is a very odd cat in many
respects. But it does seem to be predictable that the more stressed or
bored she is, the more she marks.

Another of my cats, a neutered black male, used to mark when he was a
baby, but I somehow managed to train him to stop, or he stopped on his
own, years ago. (He recently developed OCD, though. "Bald belly
syndrome." Licks the hair off his tummy.)

I used to have a tortie who peed in houseplants -- that was the *worst*.

It's always something.

ep


"Smartin" wrote in message
...
We've had a tortie for most of her eight years of life. For most of that
time we've had a Siamese male as well. Over the last three years we've
taken in three strays, one of whom ran off last summer, leaving us with
four of the little dears. Two males, two females, ranging from two to
eight years old. The males are neutered, Frankie (the tortie) is spayed.
All of our cats are kept indoors as the neighborhood is dangerous on
account of traffic. We also have a Pekingese, who gets along famously
with all the cats. In fact, we think he believes he is a cat himself.

Frankie however has a most obnoxious habit of urinating in inappropriate
places. She prefers surfaces -- end tables, the top of the deep freezer,
the piano bench, window sills, etc., and anything that seems to be
"someone else's" on the floor. By the latter I mean things like dirty
laundry, a toy one of the other cats like (we can't have catnip in the
house in any form), a Christmas tree ornament that fell off, a piece of
paper, inside shoes, and more recently, on the kitchen counter.

Needless to say this is getting old, and we are at a loss of what to do
with her. This has been going on for years now. At times (such as last
summer when one of our refugees ran away) her habit subsides, but
invariably it ramps up again. It is now a daily occurrence, if not more
than that.

Aside from the Siamese, who is effectively her "brother", we believe she
is jealous of the others. I know I'm anthropomorphizing, but the
apparent explanation of her actions as retaliation are numerous. If one
of the young cats plays with a milk ring, the next morning it will be in
a puddle of ****. If one of the cats has a chase with her, we will find
a mess somewhere soon after.

I have read several websites that discuss the matter; we have ruled out
physiological problems. Litter boxes are plentiful and well maintained.
For cleansers we have tried enzyme cleaners etc., and although they do
help remove the odor they only temporarily stop her from reusing the
same spot on the floor, table, piano, freezer, etc. Although each of the
other cats has had a moment or two of inappropriate urination, we have
caught Frankie at this numerous times.

We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?


--
Smartin




--
Smartin

Have you tried adding additional litter boxes and has she been to the vets
for a check up?

Celeste

"Smartin" wrote in message
...
We've had a tortie for most of her eight years of life. For most of that
time we've had a Siamese male as well. Over the last three years we've
taken in three strays, one of whom ran off last summer, leaving us with
four of the little dears. Two males, two females, ranging from two to
eight years old. The males are neutered, Frankie (the tortie) is spayed.
All of our cats are kept indoors as the neighborhood is dangerous on
account of traffic. We also have a Pekingese, who gets along famously with
all the cats. In fact, we think he believes he is a cat himself.

Frankie however has a most obnoxious habit of urinating in inappropriate
places. She prefers surfaces -- end tables, the top of the deep freezer,
the piano bench, window sills, etc., and anything that seems to be
"someone else's" on the floor. By the latter I mean things like dirty
laundry, a toy one of the other cats like (we can't have catnip in the
house in any form), a Christmas tree ornament that fell off, a piece of
paper, inside shoes, and more recently, on the kitchen counter.

Needless to say this is getting old, and we are at a loss of what to do
with her. This has been going on for years now. At times (such as last
summer when one of our refugees ran away) her habit subsides, but
invariably it ramps up again. It is now a daily occurrence, if not more
than that.

Aside from the Siamese, who is effectively her "brother", we believe she
is jealous of the others. I know I'm anthropomorphizing, but the apparent
explanation of her actions as retaliation are numerous. If one of the
young cats plays with a milk ring, the next morning it will be in a puddle
of ****. If one of the cats has a chase with her, we will find a mess
somewhere soon after.

I have read several websites that discuss the matter; we have ruled out
physiological problems. Litter boxes are plentiful and well maintained.
For cleansers we have tried enzyme cleaners etc., and although they do
help remove the odor they only temporarily stop her from reusing the same
spot on the floor, table, piano, freezer, etc. Although each of the other
cats has had a moment or two of inappropriate urination, we have caught
Frankie at this numerous times.

We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?


--
Smartin

Smartin,
Have you tried Feliway spray? If not I would definitely try it.
Without getting too technical, it is a synthetic feline phermone spray
that calms down cats with aggression or territorial problems. It
seriously saved my cats life. She was a feral that we caught and
socialized, and she is completely tame now, except for sometimes when
she is stressed out territorial issues arise. She would urinate in
places she shouldn't, like the sofa or on place mats or the bed once.
With a combination of retraining and using Feliway religiously she is
now only using the litter box. I would also look up retraining online.
You basically put them in a small enclosed space like a dog cage with
just enough room for a litter box, bed and food and water dishes. They
have no choice but to go in the litter box, because otherwise they will
go in their bed. You have to take them out to get excersize each day
and spend lots of time keeping them company. I know it seems cruel to
keep them in a cage for a few days, but if the only other choice is
getting rid of them, I think it is worth it. There is a great book
written by a cat behaviorist named Pam Johnson-Bennett. The book is
called How to Raise a Well Adjusted Cat, and it has tons of great info
on how to deal with territorial issues, I run to get that book any time
I have a problem with my cats and it always helps. The Feliway is sold
through amazon.com, and also at any pet supply store. It is a little
pricey but I swear it works miracles. Be sure to follow the directions
that come with it exactly, because you have to use it in a specific
way. There is another product which is a litter called Dr. Elsey's Cat
Attract. I buy it at Petsmart, and I have also spoken to other people
whos cats were innapropriately urinating who used it and it does work.
Those things all combined worked for my cat, and I was having a nervous
breakdown with her. I was heartbroken because I thought I wasn't going
to be able to keep her. I hope you try them!!! Also, you might want to
consider that to save this kitties life, you may want to stop bringing
in other cats because she will probably never be okay with her
territory being invaded, and as long as you bring in others she will
continue to be a pee pee head:-) This is what I had to do. Good Luck!




On Jan 16, 6:54 pm, Smartin wrote:
We've had a tortie for most of her eight years of life. For most of that
time we've had a Siamese male as well. Over the last three years we've
taken in three strays, one of whom ran off last summer, leaving us with
four of the little dears. Two males, two females, ranging from two to
eight years old. The males are neutered, Frankie (the tortie) is spayed.
All of our cats are kept indoors as the neighborhood is dangerous on
account of traffic. We also have a Pekingese, who gets along famously
with all the cats. In fact, we think he believes he is a cat himself.

Frankie however has a most obnoxious habit of urinating in inappropriate
places. She prefers surfaces -- end tables, the top of the deep freezer,
the piano bench, window sills, etc., and anything that seems to be
"someone else's" on the floor. By the latter I mean things like dirty
laundry, a toy one of the other cats like (we can't have catnip in the
house in any form), a Christmas tree ornament that fell off, a piece of
paper, inside shoes, and more recently, on the kitchen counter.

Needless to say this is getting old, and we are at a loss of what to do
with her. This has been going on for years now. At times (such as last
summer when one of our refugees ran away) her habit subsides, but
invariably it ramps up again. It is now a daily occurrence, if not more
than that.

Aside from the Siamese, who is effectively her "brother", we believe she
is jealous of the others. I know I'm anthropomorphizing, but the
apparent explanation of her actions as retaliation are numerous. If one
of the young cats plays with a milk ring, the next morning it will be in
a puddle of ****. If one of the cats has a chase with her, we will find
a mess somewhere soon after.

I have read several websites that discuss the matter; we have ruled out
physiological problems. Litter boxes are plentiful and well maintained.
For cleansers we have tried enzyme cleaners etc., and although they do
help remove the odor they only temporarily stop her from reusing the
same spot on the floor, table, piano, freezer, etc. Although each of the
other cats has had a moment or two of inappropriate urination, we have
caught Frankie at this numerous times.

We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?

--
Smartin

"Lynne" wrote in message
m...
on Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:54:50 GMT, Smartin wrote:

We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?

I have always heard that there is a high rate of schizophrenia among
torties (& calicos). I'm not sure if this is true, but I've certainly met
enough torties who were insane that I tend to believe it.

I'm not a proponent of throwing drugs at problems, but if there is a real
need, it may be worth looking into. I wonder if there are any
psychotropic
drugs that would help with the problem. Phil?


Buspar -generic Buspirone. About the only drug that I know of that has
produced good results in cats with elimination problems. It doesn't produce
the usual sedated/depressed side effects as other drugs used for this
purpose.

I think the problem is stress- but anything can stress Torties and Calicos-
they have the "demon gene".

No help here.

on Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:15:43 GMT, Cheryl
wrote:

Anyway, he's on Clomipramide, or
Clomacalm (usually a dog drug for separation anxiety). It's been
very successful for him after finding the right dose. He isn't a
drugged up sleepy kitty at all, but he hasn't attacked my legs in a
couple of years now. I tried to wean him off thinking he didn't
need it any more, but he reverted, and we had to start it up again,
so it might be for life.

Then I think Shamrock is a case where drugs are needed. Being afraid of
your pet or otherwise unable to live with him puts his life at risk. Once
all of the other likely resolutions have been unsucessfully tried, then I
think drugs are warranted. You have nothing to feel guilty about IMO. He
now has a good quality of life and so do you!

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/