free feeding VS fixed feeding

"MaryL" AKE-OUT-THE-LITTER wrote:

That was my reaction, too. On the advice of my vet, I discontinued the
vaccine a number of years ago -- but that was because she was exclusively an
indoor cat (and now that also includes Duffy). My vet has checked several
times since then to make sure that my cats do not come into contact with any
others. If they had contact with others, then he recommends the vaccine. I
have never heard anyone knowledgeable say that adult cats were somehow
immune.

From what I could tell, the vet who made the claim based it on a study that
found that the majority of healthy adult cats will not develop FeLV when
exposed, but what if your cat turns out to be one of the some fifteen percent
or so that does develop FeLV after exposure?

It may be accurate to say that the majority of adult cats have a natural
immunity, but that's quite different than claiming that all adult cats are
immune.

"kaeli" wrote in message
...
In article , c864320
@yahoo.com enlightened us with...
Oh, one more thing. Do you have any proof that adult cats actually
acquire FeLV? I don´t want lab experiments with vaccines. Would you
have something like cats that once tested negative (true negative) and
later developed the disease through natural exposure?

I´m trying to find the study that supports that vet´s statement that
adult cats don´t get FeLV but still haven´t managed.


If they *couldn't* get it, why would the vaccine be available for adult
animals? Why would they give boosters?? Common sense says if a cat needs
a booster, it can get the disease. (IOW, I think that vet wasn't
thinking too clearly *LOL*)
Of course, it could be that whole conspiracy to make money thing. *heh*

Like her conspiracy therory that the veterinary community is "paying off"
the pet food industry to make food that gets cats sick so they can make more
money. ;-/

P


http://www.isabellevets.co.uk/health...fo/vacccat.htm
How to vaccinate with Nobivac FeLV against leukaemia virus

A primary injection.

A second injection three weeks later.

Immunisation is achieved one to two weeks after the second vaccination

An annual booster vaccination is recommended.

In the kitten we start vaccination at 9 weeks of age.

Any age of adult cat can be vaccinated.

Nobivac Tricat and Nobicat FeLV vaccines can be given at the same time.

--
--
~kaeli~
With her marriage, she got a new name and a dress.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

"kaeli" wrote in message
...
In article , c864320
@yahoo.com enlightened us with...
Oh, one more thing. Do you have any proof that adult cats actually
acquire FeLV? I don´t want lab experiments with vaccines. Would you
have something like cats that once tested negative (true negative) and
later developed the disease through natural exposure?

I´m trying to find the study that supports that vet´s statement that
adult cats don´t get FeLV but still haven´t managed.


If they *couldn't* get it, why would the vaccine be available for adult
animals? Why would they give boosters?? Common sense says if a cat needs
a booster, it can get the disease. (IOW, I think that vet wasn't
thinking too clearly *LOL*)
Of course, it could be that whole conspiracy to make money thing. *heh*

Like her conspiracy therory that the veterinary community is "paying off"
the pet food industry to make food that gets cats sick so they can make more
money. ;-/

P


http://www.isabellevets.co.uk/health...fo/vacccat.htm
How to vaccinate with Nobivac FeLV against leukaemia virus

A primary injection.

A second injection three weeks later.

Immunisation is achieved one to two weeks after the second vaccination

An annual booster vaccination is recommended.

In the kitten we start vaccination at 9 weeks of age.

Any age of adult cat can be vaccinated.

Nobivac Tricat and Nobicat FeLV vaccines can be given at the same time.

--
--
~kaeli~
With her marriage, she got a new name and a dress.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

"Liz" wrote in message
om...
"Phil P." wrote in message news:
Not exactly Mr. Scrooge McDuck.

Yeah.. like your deadly delusion about how adult cats can't become
infected
with FeLV?

I never said that.

You certanly did! You stated it as a fact.


Or your infamous delusion about dissolving calcium oxalate
uroliths in cats with water?

You will get there. .

You won't. Its been a well-known *fact* for *years* calcium oxalate
uroliths *cannot* be dissolved in cats.

"The only effective treatment for cats with calcium oxalate urolithiasis is
surgical removal of all calculi. Unlike the case with struvite calculi,
strategies to affect medical dissolution of calcium oxalate calculi have not
been successful. "
http://www.calf.vetmed.ucdavis.edu:1...4/summary.html

"Surgical removal is usually required, although special diets designed to
dissolve struvite uroliths are available from your veterinarian; if fed over
a period of time, such diets are often successful. At this time, no such
diets exist for the dissolution of uroliths composed of other mineral types.
"
http://web.vet.cornell.edu/Public/FHC/urinary.html


I really admire you for trying


And I'd really laugh at you and your utterly stupid and asinine therories if
you weren't so *dangerous* to the health and welfare of cats.




Vet Med Small Anim Clin. 1970. 65(5):461-8.
Clinical report on 46 cases of feline urological syndrome
Osbaldiston GW, Taussig RA.

Thanks. I´ll give it a look.


Maybe you'll learn something about cats. They're not test tubes - things
work a little differently in real live cats.



My information saves cats' lives - yours will kill them.

Never happened.

That's hard to believe. If you waited for water to dissolve a urinary tract
obstruction caused by a calcium oxalate urolith you sure as hell would kill
the cat.


Actually, I´ve saved a few myself.

Yeah, probably by leaving them alone.

"Liz" wrote in message
om...
"Phil P." wrote in message news:
Not exactly Mr. Scrooge McDuck.

Yeah.. like your deadly delusion about how adult cats can't become
infected
with FeLV?

I never said that.

You certanly did! You stated it as a fact.


Or your infamous delusion about dissolving calcium oxalate
uroliths in cats with water?

You will get there. .

You won't. Its been a well-known *fact* for *years* calcium oxalate
uroliths *cannot* be dissolved in cats.

"The only effective treatment for cats with calcium oxalate urolithiasis is
surgical removal of all calculi. Unlike the case with struvite calculi,
strategies to affect medical dissolution of calcium oxalate calculi have not
been successful. "
http://www.calf.vetmed.ucdavis.edu:1...4/summary.html

"Surgical removal is usually required, although special diets designed to
dissolve struvite uroliths are available from your veterinarian; if fed over
a period of time, such diets are often successful. At this time, no such
diets exist for the dissolution of uroliths composed of other mineral types.
"
http://web.vet.cornell.edu/Public/FHC/urinary.html


I really admire you for trying


And I'd really laugh at you and your utterly stupid and asinine therories if
you weren't so *dangerous* to the health and welfare of cats.




Vet Med Small Anim Clin. 1970. 65(5):461-8.
Clinical report on 46 cases of feline urological syndrome
Osbaldiston GW, Taussig RA.

Thanks. I´ll give it a look.


Maybe you'll learn something about cats. They're not test tubes - things
work a little differently in real live cats.



My information saves cats' lives - yours will kill them.

Never happened.

That's hard to believe. If you waited for water to dissolve a urinary tract
obstruction caused by a calcium oxalate urolith you sure as hell would kill
the cat.


Actually, I´ve saved a few myself.

Yeah, probably by leaving them alone.

"Liz" wrote in message
m...
Oh, one more thing. Do you have any proof that adult cats actually
acquire FeLV?

Yeah, reality. You should visit the place someday - although you probably
won't like it. Until (if) you ever get there, here's a study that shows
just how long its been known that *adult* cats can be infected by FeLV+
cats. 1976! Not too far behind the times, are you? LOL!

The study does not refer to kittens, the infection rate in kittens is much,
much, higher - so don't even try one of your convolutions and manipulations.

Cancer Res 1976 Feb;36(2 pt 2):582-8

Biology of feline leukemia virus in the natural environment.

Hardy WD Jr, Hess PW, MacEwen EG, McClelland AJ, Zuckerman EE, Essex M,
Cotter SM, Jarrett O

"After the infectious nature of FeLV was discovered, a simple FeLV test and
removal program was devised to control the spread of the virus in the
natural environment. The spread of FeLV was controlled in 45 households by
removing the FeLV-infected cats, while in 25 households, where the infected
cats were left in contact with the uninfected cats, 12% of the uninfected
cats became infected."

You do know who Oswald Jarret is, don't you? He discovered the feline
leukemia virus in 1963.

The Cornell Feline Health Center recommends:

"FeLV-positive cats must be prevented from having any contact with the
negative cats, perhaps by housing it in a separate room within the house.
Separate feeding utensils and litter pans should be provided, and hands
should be thoroughly washed and clothing (including shoes) after handling
and caring for the positive cat. The positive cat should never be allowed
outdoors, where it might come into contact with FeLV-negative cats and
transmit the virus."

http://web.vet.cornell.edu/Public/FHC/felv.html



You don't have much contact with real vets, do you?

"Liz" wrote in message
m...
Oh, one more thing. Do you have any proof that adult cats actually
acquire FeLV?

Yeah, reality. You should visit the place someday - although you probably
won't like it. Until (if) you ever get there, here's a study that shows
just how long its been known that *adult* cats can be infected by FeLV+
cats. 1976! Not too far behind the times, are you? LOL!

The study does not refer to kittens, the infection rate in kittens is much,
much, higher - so don't even try one of your convolutions and manipulations.

Cancer Res 1976 Feb;36(2 pt 2):582-8

Biology of feline leukemia virus in the natural environment.

Hardy WD Jr, Hess PW, MacEwen EG, McClelland AJ, Zuckerman EE, Essex M,
Cotter SM, Jarrett O

"After the infectious nature of FeLV was discovered, a simple FeLV test and
removal program was devised to control the spread of the virus in the
natural environment. The spread of FeLV was controlled in 45 households by
removing the FeLV-infected cats, while in 25 households, where the infected
cats were left in contact with the uninfected cats, 12% of the uninfected
cats became infected."

You do know who Oswald Jarret is, don't you? He discovered the feline
leukemia virus in 1963.

The Cornell Feline Health Center recommends:

"FeLV-positive cats must be prevented from having any contact with the
negative cats, perhaps by housing it in a separate room within the house.
Separate feeding utensils and litter pans should be provided, and hands
should be thoroughly washed and clothing (including shoes) after handling
and caring for the positive cat. The positive cat should never be allowed
outdoors, where it might come into contact with FeLV-negative cats and
transmit the virus."

http://web.vet.cornell.edu/Public/FHC/felv.html



You don't have much contact with real vets, do you?

"Phil P."
Yeah, reality. You should visit the place someday - although you probably
won't like it.

Your study says only 12% became infected, that's very low. I have
another one here that says 15% - also very low. Another study says
that in kittens susceptibility is much higher. What's interesting is
that all of the kittens got the virus (the three that didn't have the
virus had FOCMA antibodies indicating that at some point there was
exposure) but only 70% developed some disease associated with the
virus, that is, only those that did not have FOCMA antibodies.
Therefore, some cats do have natural immunity. Another study stated
that of 17 feral domestic cats trapped in a FeLV positive environment
(other small feline species had the virus), none of them had the
virus. I am totally convinced that what I said is correct. Cats do
have natural immunity to FeLV (FOCMA antibodies) but some lost this
immunity probably due to inbreeding. Remember what I said about the
antibody library? The cats that have the gene to produce FOCMA
antibodies are naturally immune to FeLV. If you wish to see these
studies yourself, go to the national library and search for that
number in parenthesis. I'll even make it easy for you and post the
link again:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

Maybe you could either learn to read or come to reality yourself.

And since you keep putting words in my mouth, can you please point out
where I said those things?
__________________________________________________ _____________________

FIV was less contagious than FeLV in 73 cats residing in an exposure
household between 1977 and 1980 as determined by evaluation of sera
collected sequentially. In this household, 15 resident cats became
FeLV infected whereas no cats contracted FIV infection. (2159993)

Ten post-weanling 4-month-old cats, designated "tracers", were placed
in a feline leukemia cluster household to determine the efficiency of
horizontal transmission of feline leukemia virus (FeLV). Seven of the
10 had virus that could be isolated from plasma. All of these 7
developed a terminal illness within 18 months; 3 developed aplastic
anemia, 3 infectious peritonitis, and 1 lymphoma. The remaining 3 were
negative for FeLV by both virus isolation and fixed-cell
immunofluorescence. These 3 did, however, develop high antibody titers
by all four criteria and they remained healthy throughout the
examination period. (188773)

Conversely, some cats resist development of leukemia or lymphoma
following natural exposure to feline leukemia virus in leukemia
cluster households, and these cats have high FOCMA antibody titers.
These results support the concept of a natural immunosurveillance
mechanism against leukemia or lymphoma development in an *outbred*
mammalian species. (56224)

"Phil P."
Yeah, reality. You should visit the place someday - although you probably
won't like it.

Your study says only 12% became infected, that's very low. I have
another one here that says 15% - also very low. Another study says
that in kittens susceptibility is much higher. What's interesting is
that all of the kittens got the virus (the three that didn't have the
virus had FOCMA antibodies indicating that at some point there was
exposure) but only 70% developed some disease associated with the
virus, that is, only those that did not have FOCMA antibodies.
Therefore, some cats do have natural immunity. Another study stated
that of 17 feral domestic cats trapped in a FeLV positive environment
(other small feline species had the virus), none of them had the
virus. I am totally convinced that what I said is correct. Cats do
have natural immunity to FeLV (FOCMA antibodies) but some lost this
immunity probably due to inbreeding. Remember what I said about the
antibody library? The cats that have the gene to produce FOCMA
antibodies are naturally immune to FeLV. If you wish to see these
studies yourself, go to the national library and search for that
number in parenthesis. I'll even make it easy for you and post the
link again:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

Maybe you could either learn to read or come to reality yourself.

And since you keep putting words in my mouth, can you please point out
where I said those things?
__________________________________________________ _____________________

FIV was less contagious than FeLV in 73 cats residing in an exposure
household between 1977 and 1980 as determined by evaluation of sera
collected sequentially. In this household, 15 resident cats became
FeLV infected whereas no cats contracted FIV infection. (2159993)

Ten post-weanling 4-month-old cats, designated "tracers", were placed
in a feline leukemia cluster household to determine the efficiency of
horizontal transmission of feline leukemia virus (FeLV). Seven of the
10 had virus that could be isolated from plasma. All of these 7
developed a terminal illness within 18 months; 3 developed aplastic
anemia, 3 infectious peritonitis, and 1 lymphoma. The remaining 3 were
negative for FeLV by both virus isolation and fixed-cell
immunofluorescence. These 3 did, however, develop high antibody titers
by all four criteria and they remained healthy throughout the
examination period. (188773)

Conversely, some cats resist development of leukemia or lymphoma
following natural exposure to feline leukemia virus in leukemia
cluster households, and these cats have high FOCMA antibody titers.
These results support the concept of a natural immunosurveillance
mechanism against leukemia or lymphoma development in an *outbred*
mammalian species. (56224)

kaeli wrote in message
If they *couldn't* get it, why would the vaccine be available for adult
animals? Why would they give boosters?? Common sense says if a cat needs
a booster, it can get the disease. (IOW, I think that vet wasn't
thinking too clearly *LOL*).
Of course, it could be that whole conspiracy to make money thing. *heh*

Are you really that naive? Please see my reply to Phil. Besides,
making money is not a conspiracy, it´s a necessity.