Indoor cats

wrote:
Phil P. wrote:

How do you know if your cat has a potentially fatal urinary tract
obstruction, UTI , straining or painful urination or defecation or
constipation or diarrhea if you can't physically *observe* your cat's
elimination behavior? Litterbox behavior and products are often warning
signs of internal disease.

You (and Mary and Cheryl) make a good point about the litter box. And
I suppose that one of these days he could very well run into an
accident or larger predator outside. He did disappear for 2 days in
the dead of winter once, and we were all but convinced we had lost him.
He turned out to be hiding in a neighbor's basement.

I do know that when we keep him in (eg., to be sure he fasts overnight
before a visit to the vet), he goes nuts trying to claw his way out at
the door. Perhaps he could eventually get used to staying in if we
forced the issue. But I have also heard that if you remove an
established outdoor-only cat from the outdoors, another outdoor cat
will simply take over the territory. As it is, our neutered male is
holding the territory instead of a cat that could be producing more
feral offspring.

Mark

That's one of the things I'd be worried about most. Fighting with the
other toms. There are diseases spread by fighting; some of which there
is no vaccination available.
I'm not totally anti-outdoors. I think common sense should dictate
whether or not a cat goes out. But I don't think, under any
circumstances except a leash, they ought to out in a suburban
neighborhood or urban area. Besides risk issues to the cat, it's just
not right to expect the neighbors to put up with cats walking on their
cars, pooping in their flowerbeds and such.
On the other side of the coin, I think cooping a lone cat up in a dark
apartme borders on abuse. They need a sunny window, a cat tree, toys,
and for most, the companionship of another cat.
A loving indoor home with an at-will enclosure is the best deal for a
cat ever, IMO. It's a great replacement for the outdoors. Here's a pic
of one we built a few years ago.
http://members.aol.com/sriddles/room1.jpg
http://members.aol.com/sriddles/room2.jpg

Sherry

"wafflycat" waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk wrote in message
...

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...




I have no time for the RSPCA.

Tweed




They are exceptionally good at publicity ;-) Luckily we have a lot more
shelters, non-RSPCA, small, private charities, that do not euthanise
unless
there is a medical reason to do so. I do not give money to the RSPCA, but
I
do to my local small shelter, PACT, which does not euthanise any animal
that
comes ito its care unless there is a medical reason for it. It's one of
the
things that annoys me about the RSPCA. It is rich, very rich, yet it
euthanises where other organisations will not. It's why the smaller
organisations have armies of volunteers out day-in-day-out raising funds,
and they get by hand-to-mouth where the money goes on the animals, not on
flash new premises such as many an RSPCA place... The RSPCA has its place,
but I'd not willingly take a cat or dog to them.

Cheers, helen s

Yep, that's exactly the same here with SPCA. They get a lot more money, but
do so much *less* with it!

Hugs,

CatNipped

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
Phil P. wrote:

How do you know if your cat has a potentially fatal urinary tract
obstruction, UTI , straining or painful urination or defecation or
constipation or diarrhea if you can't physically *observe* your cat's
elimination behavior? Litterbox behavior and products are often
warning
signs of internal disease.

You (and Mary and Cheryl) make a good point about the litter box. And
I suppose that one of these days he could very well run into an
accident or larger predator outside. He did disappear for 2 days in
the dead of winter once, and we were all but convinced we had lost him.
He turned out to be hiding in a neighbor's basement.

I do know that when we keep him in (eg., to be sure he fasts overnight
before a visit to the vet), he goes nuts trying to claw his way out at
the door. Perhaps he could eventually get used to staying in if we
forced the issue. But I have also heard that if you remove an
established outdoor-only cat from the outdoors, another outdoor cat
will simply take over the territory. As it is, our neutered male is
holding the territory instead of a cat that could be producing more
feral offspring.

Mark

That's one of the things I'd be worried about most. Fighting with the
other toms. There are diseases spread by fighting; some of which there
is no vaccination available.
I'm not totally anti-outdoors. I think common sense should dictate
whether or not a cat goes out. But I don't think, under any
circumstances except a leash, they ought to out in a suburban
neighborhood or urban area. Besides risk issues to the cat, it's just
not right to expect the neighbors to put up with cats walking on their
cars, pooping in their flowerbeds and such.

It doesn't seem to be an issue here in the UK at least where I live. Maybe
it's because we expect cats to roam freely. Before I had cats myself, I
would often find kitty footprints on my car. I just cleaned them off.
Everyone does, it's just a fact of life, nothing to get upset about.
If I wanted to plant seeds I know I must protect the seedbed with cotton
threads against cats using the soft soil for toilet purposes.
As far as I know that's what we all do.
I've never heard of a neighbour war here about footprints on cars or pooping
in flowerbeds. I assume it's because we all know that "that's what cats
do.." and let them do it.

Tweed


On the other side of the coin, I think cooping a lone cat up in a dark
apartme borders on abuse. They need a sunny window, a cat tree, toys,
and for most, the companionship of another cat.
A loving indoor home with an at-will enclosure is the best deal for a
cat ever, IMO. It's a great replacement for the outdoors. Here's a pic
of one we built a few years ago.
http://members.aol.com/sriddles/room1.jpg
http://members.aol.com/sriddles/room2.jpg

Sherry

We feed all the strays that come around and wonder why people didn't take
care of their cats rather than let them just run outside where the odds are
they WILL be killed, or injured. We've had one with feline leukemia, there
have been raccoons and possums (whether rabid or not is irrelevant, they are
still a threat to cats along with stray dogs and wolves). Our newest kitten
(18 weeks) was a stray and almost hit by an electrical truck. I just found
this last week. Long story... The cat I took my name from (I guess it's
right, I named him was wandering outside one winter. I opened the door and
he ran back in.Whose quote was "For my part etc.

--
"Phil P." wrote in message
...

"Ivor Jones" wrote in message
...

For my part, if I were unable to allow a cat outdoors through risk of
predators or any other reason, I simply wouldn't have a cat.

That's not practical or even realistic in the USA because that mentality
would result in millions upon millions of homeless cats and a 10 times
increase in shelter killings.

Christina Websell wrote:


It doesn't seem to be an issue here in the UK at least where I live. Maybe
it's because we expect cats to roam freely. Before I had cats myself, I
would often find kitty footprints on my car. I just cleaned them off.
Everyone does, it's just a fact of life, nothing to get upset about.
If I wanted to plant seeds I know I must protect the seedbed with cotton
threads against cats using the soft soil for toilet purposes.
As far as I know that's what we all do.
I've never heard of a neighbour war here about footprints on cars or pooping
in flowerbeds. I assume it's because we all know that "that's what cats
do.." and let them do it.

Tweed

I'd have to disagree, Tweed. Case in point, it's a good thing my DH is
a cat lover, because the hood and fenders of his brand-spanking-new
truck have deep, long scratches--not the kind that wash off. It's those
almost-made-it jumps when they try to get traction and scrape all the
way down, or the hind claws that extend when they jump off.
Also, there is much more than seedbeds to consider. Lots of folks have
children playing in the dirt, and that's just nasty to think cats have
pooped in it. And they should be able to, in their own yard, without
worrying about feces from someone else's cat.
Also, a friend of mine has a neighborhood cat who has chosen to poop in
the soft soil right by her front step. It smells like a port-a-potty in
August on her front porch. That just isn't right, to let your cat run
amok and expect other people to make compensations.

Sherry

Christina Websell wrote:
I've never heard of a neighbour war here about footprints on cars or pooping
in flowerbeds. I assume it's because we all know that "that's what cats
do.." and let them do it.

Tweed

Well, I feel that way, and you feel that way, and probably the friends
we surround ourselves with also do, but there's a portion of the
populace in *any* country that resents being bothered with other
peoples cats. There used to be a UK-based "cat hate" website--I just
looked for it and couldn't find it. Actually it isn't as that
sounds--IIRC there were some pretty good suggestions for humane
deterrents on that site.
I did find a survey of 4,000 people taken in the UK WRT cats in their
gardens. I imagine it was rather skewed, as it sounds like the
survey-takers were *gardeners* themselves, but it does show that
there's always people that don't like cats running around in their
gardens, no matter where you live.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2937420.stm

Sherry

"Phil P." wrote in message
...


That's not practical or even realistic in the USA because
that mentality would result in millions upon millions of
homeless cats and a 10 times increase in shelter
killings.

Something else we don't do here.


That's a myth that has been fostered by the government to promote a
sterling
image of a 'cat-loving' nation.

Britain is considered to be a pet loving nation, it might well be a
myth but not one fostered by the goverment.

- The UK has an overpopulation problem,

Yes we do but proportionally not as high as the US

also, and *certainly* does use kill-shelters.

The RSPCA PTS cats they can't rehome, but I can't think off hand of
other organisations that do. The RSPCA is not goverment run.
Alison

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...

Name one. Cats Protection most certainly do *not* kill.

Ivor

FROM:

FERAL CAT CONTROL IN THE UK
Copyright 1993, revised 2002 Sarah Hartwell

"In some years the UK's RSPCA destroy 30-35% of cats taken into
their care."

"A number of British animal welfare groups run TNR schemes and
numerous
individuals or groups of friends are involved with TNR of individual
colonies. However, an equal number of animal "rescue" societies
euthanize
any ferals presented to them, viewing them as an unrewarding drain
on their
resources. In addition, some societies or individuals cannot come to
terms
with the concept of cats as wild animals and euthanize healthy feral
cats
simply "to save them from their predicament" despite the fact that
the cats
concerned know no other way of life. Those who support the latter
opinion
claim that life in the wild is "short and brutal" and that it's more
humane
to kill the cats. This is a clear case of being unable to understand
that
not all cats are house-pets since they do not apply the same
arguments to
the rest of Britain's wildlife."

Hugs,

CatNipped

The RSPCA do put some cats to sleep. 35% will include cats that
are ill or not able to be rehomed , also bear in mind that the number
of cats hnded over as unwanted are lower than the States .
I don't think the Iver was referring to feral cats. Sarah's not
mentioned which animal rescue societies euthenize them . AFAIK

"Alison" wrote in message
...


The RSPCA do put some cats to sleep. 35% will include cats that
are ill or not able to be rehomed , also bear in mind that the number
of cats handed over as unwanted are lower than the States .
I don't think the Iver was referring to feral cats. Sarah's not
mentioned which animal rescue societies euthenize them .
AFAIK, feral cats that are trapped by pest control will be PTS by the
pet control itself .
At our RSPCA branch , feral cats will be neutered /spayed and
returned if requested (or rehomed )if someone will take responsibility
to feed them . If they can't rehome they're PTS , which happens as
its hard to rehome ferals.
Alison

"Diane" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
wrote:


Well, I feel that way, and you feel that way, and probably the
friends
we surround ourselves with also do, but there's a portion of the
populace in *any* country that resents being bothered with other
peoples cats.

I have a friend in the UK who doesn't hate cats, but he also really,
really doesn't want his neighbours' cats in his garden..

I agree with you , I think cat owners need to be encourage to have
litter trays and areas in their garden for their cats to use instead
of their neighbours gardens.
Alison