toughening up my 9 month old kitten

I'm kind of joking. The problem I have is that I have two kittens one is the
9 month old that I got from a train conductor. It was rescued from a freight
yard. The other is 8 months old and I got it from a local shelter to keep
the other one company.

The problem I have is that the younger one is both hyper active (and in my
opinion a bit on the brain damaged side. I hate to call him stupid but let's
just say he's not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.) and an alpha male.
The older one is normally active and a very submissive beta male. I'm looking
for a way to "toughen" him up a bit. The problem is that he's very
submissive. The younger alpha male is beating on the older beta male without
mercy.

The older cat is bigger and stronger then the younger one and from time to
time will actually defend himself and does a good job of it. They're both
sweet cats but it's hard to watch the older one get beat on all the time.
Is my approach of staying out of their "fights" and letting them settle things
between themselves the right approach or should I be doing something to get
the older one to defend himself. If so what?? On the positive side they
haven't actually hurt each other yet.


--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------

"Frank Pittel" wrote in message
...
I'm kind of joking. The problem I have is that I have two kittens one is
the
9 month old that I got from a train conductor. It was rescued from a
freight
yard. The other is 8 months old and I got it from a local shelter to keep
the other one company.

The problem I have is that the younger one is both hyper active (and in my
opinion a bit on the brain damaged side. I hate to call him stupid but
let's
just say he's not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.) and an alpha
male.
The older one is normally active and a very submissive beta male. I'm
looking
for a way to "toughen" him up a bit. The problem is that he's very
submissive. The younger alpha male is beating on the older beta male
without
mercy.

The older cat is bigger and stronger then the younger one and from time to
time will actually defend himself and does a good job of it. They're both
sweet cats but it's hard to watch the older one get beat on all the time.
Is my approach of staying out of their "fights" and letting them settle
things
between themselves the right approach or should I be doing something to
get
the older one to defend himself. If so what?? On the positive side they
haven't actually hurt each other yet.


--

Stop worrying, fight the urge to meddle and let them work it out.

The older cat is bigger and stronger then the younger one and from time to
time will actually defend himself and does a good job of it. They're both
sweet cats but it's hard to watch the older one get beat on all the time.
Is my approach of staying out of their "fights" and letting them settle
things
between themselves the right approach or should I be doing something to
get
the older one to defend himself. If so what?? On the positive side they
haven't actually hurt each other yet.

I figure, untill fur flys & blood is shed, let 'em have at it. I did a
little bonding thing with my kittens, gave 'em both a bath & let them huddle
together under a blanket shivering & grroming. Seems to have worked,
they're curled up asleep together @ the moment. Not to say they don't
fight, but it seems to all be in good fun. Your cat's will sort out a
level... Just try & let 'em know that YOU asre the true alpha male (as much
as this is possible).... Remember, you controll the food.

Mathew
Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat
En Vino Veritas

In article ,
Frank Pittel wrote:

I'm kind of joking. The problem I have is that I have two kittens one is the
9 month old that I got from a train conductor. It was rescued from a freight
yard. The other is 8 months old and I got it from a local shelter to keep
the other one company.

The problem I have is that the younger one is both hyper active (and in my
opinion a bit on the brain damaged side. I hate to call him stupid but let's
just say he's not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.) and an alpha male.
The older one is normally active and a very submissive beta male. I'm looking
for a way to "toughen" him up a bit. The problem is that he's very
submissive. The younger alpha male is beating on the older beta male without
mercy.

The older cat is bigger and stronger then the younger one and from time to
time will actually defend himself and does a good job of it. They're both
sweet cats but it's hard to watch the older one get beat on all the time.
Is my approach of staying out of their "fights" and letting them settle things
between themselves the right approach or should I be doing something to get
the older one to defend himself. If so what?? On the positive side they
haven't actually hurt each other yet.

You could be describing the relationship between two of my cats. Sebbie
was a rescued feral male kitten whom I socialized and then introduced to
my (then) two other cats. Benjie was the male of my first two (of this
time around) cats. He was a shelter kitten. Benjie is a beautiful LH
tuxedo boy who's a bit of a flamer, to my mind. He poses on the runway
of life and knows he's knock-out gorgeous. He's long-limbed and
slender. Sebbie OTOH is built like a tanker, a LH brown tabby. He's
got that feral shyness and spends most of his time in the basement,
where he terrorizes the resident mice. Benjie lords it over Sebbie,
bossing him around, disciplining him, and generally abusing him. Every
once in a while, though, it's like Sebbie wakes up and realizes he's
bigger than Benjie and can beat him up. So he starts to, and Benjie
cries and whimpers that it's not fair! His underling is beating him up!
I tell him it's his own fault for psychologically abusing Sebbie, but I
also break it up when the crying gets intense.

It's a complex relationship. Neither actually injures the other, but
they've got this drama going, and it's interesting to observe. I love
both of them, and each gets his own special time with me. Benjie likes
to wake me up in the morning, and he loves to snuggle while we watch TV.
Sebbie loves to be groomed, and I just got a wonderful self-cleaning
slicker brush which seems to suit him to a T. A bellyrub is bliss for
him.

I'd say let them work it out. Mr. Beta may be comfortable in his role,
and attempts on your part to change their social structure might just
make them both unhappy. Definitely keep an eye on it, but don't
intervene unless someone is actually being hurt. And make sure each
gets special attention from you so they know that no matter what their
relationship with each other is, you love them each in a special way.

Hope this helps.

Priscilla

--
"It is very, very dangerous to treat any human, lowest
of the low even, with contempt and arrogant whatever.
The Lord takes this kind of treatment very, very personal."
- QBaal in newsgroup alt.religion.christian.episcopal

What Priscilla said :
Lol. Sounds familiar to the goings on at our house.

The older cat is bigger and stronger then the younger one and from time to
time will actually defend himself and does a good job of it.

Are they neutered yet? That will probably stifle the fighting urge a
little...maybe. I have 2 adult neutered males and they would fight if I let
them be together but I don't. Maybe you didn't introduce these 2 properly?
It's hard to tell from a post whether it's serious fighting or general kitten
play-fighting. At any rate, if they're not neutered, you should do that before
they develop undesirable behaviors like spraying and it's healthier for them,
too.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

In article . com,
"Tracy" wrote:

What Priscilla said :
Lol. Sounds familiar to the goings on at our house.

Cats is cats the world around. ;-)

Priscilla

--
"It is very, very dangerous to treat any human, lowest
of the low even, with contempt and arrogant whatever.
The Lord takes this kind of treatment very, very personal."
- QBaal in newsgroup alt.religion.christian.episcopal

MacCandace wrote:
: The older cat is bigger and stronger then the younger one and from time to
: time will actually defend himself and does a good job of it.

: Are they neutered yet? That will probably stifle the fighting urge a
: little...maybe. I have 2 adult neutered males and they would fight if I let
: them be together but I don't. Maybe you didn't introduce these 2 properly?
: It's hard to tell from a post whether it's serious fighting or general kitten
: play-fighting. At any rate, if they're not neutered, you should do that before
: they develop undesirable behaviors like spraying and it's healthier for them,
: too.

The younger one was fixed at the shelter. I've been holding off neutering the
submissive one in the hope that as a result he'll get a bit more agressive.

In any case he will be getting neutered before he's a year old.
--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------

Priscilla Ballou wrote:
: In article ,
: Frank Pittel wrote:

: I'm kind of joking. The problem I have is that I have two kittens one is the
: 9 month old that I got from a train conductor. It was rescued from a freight
: yard. The other is 8 months old and I got it from a local shelter to keep
: the other one company.
:
: The problem I have is that the younger one is both hyper active (and in my
: opinion a bit on the brain damaged side. I hate to call him stupid but let's
: just say he's not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.) and an alpha male.
: The older one is normally active and a very submissive beta male. I'm looking
: for a way to "toughen" him up a bit. The problem is that he's very
: submissive. The younger alpha male is beating on the older beta male without
: mercy.
:
: The older cat is bigger and stronger then the younger one and from time to
: time will actually defend himself and does a good job of it. They're both
: sweet cats but it's hard to watch the older one get beat on all the time.
: Is my approach of staying out of their "fights" and letting them settle things
: between themselves the right approach or should I be doing something to get
: the older one to defend himself. If so what?? On the positive side they
: haven't actually hurt each other yet.

: You could be describing the relationship between two of my cats. Sebbie
: was a rescued feral male kitten whom I socialized and then introduced to
: my (then) two other cats. Benjie was the male of my first two (of this
: time around) cats. He was a shelter kitten. Benjie is a beautiful LH
: tuxedo boy who's a bit of a flamer, to my mind. He poses on the runway
: of life and knows he's knock-out gorgeous. He's long-limbed and
: slender. Sebbie OTOH is built like a tanker, a LH brown tabby. He's
: got that feral shyness and spends most of his time in the basement,
: where he terrorizes the resident mice. Benjie lords it over Sebbie,
: bossing him around, disciplining him, and generally abusing him. Every
: once in a while, though, it's like Sebbie wakes up and realizes he's
: bigger than Benjie and can beat him up. So he starts to, and Benjie
: cries and whimpers that it's not fair! His underling is beating him up!
: I tell him it's his own fault for psychologically abusing Sebbie, but I
: also break it up when the crying gets intense.

: It's a complex relationship. Neither actually injures the other, but
: they've got this drama going, and it's interesting to observe. I love
: both of them, and each gets his own special time with me. Benjie likes
: to wake me up in the morning, and he loves to snuggle while we watch TV.
: Sebbie loves to be groomed, and I just got a wonderful self-cleaning
: slicker brush which seems to suit him to a T. A bellyrub is bliss for
: him.

: I'd say let them work it out. Mr. Beta may be comfortable in his role,
: and attempts on your part to change their social structure might just
: make them both unhappy. Definitely keep an eye on it, but don't
: intervene unless someone is actually being hurt. And make sure each
: gets special attention from you so they know that no matter what their
: relationship with each other is, you love them each in a special way.

: Hope this helps.

It actually does help a lot. I of course will do nothing overt to try and
make the beta male more aggressive. After all it's a part of his personality
to be that way. It's the first time I've had a beta male cat and it's
frustrating. When I yell at him for knocking over the garbage he first cowers
in fear and the rolls over on his back to submitt to me!!

The kittens aren't hurting each other although the beta is a bit standoffish
they do get along well.
--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------

Frank Pittel wrote:
: I'm kind of joking. The problem I have is that I have two kittens one is the
: 9 month old that I got from a train conductor. It was rescued from a freight
: yard. The other is 8 months old and I got it from a local shelter to keep
: the other one company.

: The problem I have is that the younger one is both hyper active (and in my
: opinion a bit on the brain damaged side. I hate to call him stupid but let's
: just say he's not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.) and an alpha male.
: The older one is normally active and a very submissive beta male. I'm looking
: for a way to "toughen" him up a bit. The problem is that he's very
: submissive. The younger alpha male is beating on the older beta male without
: mercy.

: The older cat is bigger and stronger then the younger one and from time to
: time will actually defend himself and does a good job of it. They're both
: sweet cats but it's hard to watch the older one get beat on all the time.
: Is my approach of staying out of their "fights" and letting them settle things
: between themselves the right approach or should I be doing something to get
: the older one to defend himself. If so what?? On the positive side they
: haven't actually hurt each other yet.

Based on the replies I've been getting I think I've given the wrong
impression about how the two ge along. They're not hurting each other and
it doesn't seem like either is trying to hurt the other.

I just wish I could get the beta kitten to do more to defend himself. While
he acts as if he's afraid of the younger alpha male he is for the most part
fearless. He's also a lot smarter. He's justa very passive and submissive
kitten and I'd like to see him become more aggressive.
--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------