Holiday Cards (Felinitations)

"Adrian" wrote in message
om...
Christina Websell wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message
om...
Christina Websell wrote:
"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:
So why send cards out at that time ? Ignore it then.

There you go again, telling people what to do. Who do you think you
are?
I'll tell you who I am. I am a white British person whose culture
is disappearing in my home town and it concerns me.
Tweed

You're begining to sound like a racist bigot.
--
Explain how I am an racist bigot for saying my culture is
disappearing. It is and I make no apology for saying so.

I didn't say you were one, only that you were begining to sound like one.
What's so wonderful about _your_ culture anyway?
--

Nothing. I can't be bothered to argue with you. It's well seen that the
culture in your village isn't being compromised.

Tweed

"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...
Adrian wrote:
Christina Websell wrote:
ictor Martinez wrote:
Christina Websell wrote:
Not "holiday cards" what's that supposed to mean?

It means that not everybody in the group is a christian or
celebrates x-mas.

Yes, I realised that already.
But the fact remains that if you send out cards in December they are
Christmas cards, whether or not you celebrate Christmas, that's what
they are.

Absolute nonsense, if you don't believe in the existance of Christ
how can they be Christmas cards?

So why send cards out at that time ? Ignore it then.
Also, please do not say that my views are "absolute nonsense." You can
disagree with me, that's fine, I have no problem with that but to say
what I think is "absolute nonsense" I find quite insulting.
I have been trained in political correctness ad nauseum through my job.
I refuse to give up Christmas or referring to it like it was a bad word.

Tweed



You've obviously never been told at work the term is "holiday party". To
call it anything else is politically incorrect.


No!! Well, I've never had a holiday party, if we have one in late December
it's a Christmas party.

Tweed

Cheryl wrote:

If my friends and relatives and neighbours
want to call it 'winter holidays' and celebrate a secular shopping
extravaganza with Santa as a centrepiece, that's their choice.

I'd feel the same way if it wasn't in my face, constantly and at high
volume, from late October through New Year's Day.

I do sometimes think that maybe some people have lost more than they've
gained through these cultural changes when I see people who seem
overstressed and anxious and frantic through the whole season

There's a context for all that anxiety and stress. Many economies are
heavily dependent on how well the retail sector does during the "holiday
rush", so there's a lot of "push, push, push" going on. We're a social
species and *most* of us have inherited the tendency to be susceptible
to that kind of pressure. I know I am. It doesn't make me want to buy
stuff, but it sure does aggravate me.

Joyce

--
If an animal does something, they call it instinct. If we do exactly
the same thing for the same reason, they call it intelligence.
-- Will Cuppy

"Sherry"
On Aug 27, 6:19 am, Cheryl
bastXXXe:
It's a popular one, can't argue with that. But as someone from a non-
Christian background, I find Christmas a bit obliterating. (Though I
wouldn't mind it so much if it weren't so *garish*. Some non-Christians
may complain about the religious symbols, but I'd rather hear about
Jesus than about iPhones.)

So am I, well I am a lapsed Mormon, but left that..
I'd rater hear about Jesus too, but I do respect the beliefs or non beliefs
of others.

Well, I'm from a Christian background, and always found the 'compulsory
happiness' and 'spend! spend! spend!' aspects overwhelming and
depressing - 'obliterating' is a good term.

I so agree with that.

I dealt with it by eliminating just about all the excess and eventually
getting back to my roots. I pick and choose what events I want to
participate in and what customs I want to maintain. It helps a lot with
that feeling of obliteration! (Keeping out of malls and away from ads as
much as humanly possible really helps, too.)

I spent two successive Christmases in Istanbul. There wasn't a lot
of Christian imagery around, but there were quite a few Santas.
(Since St Nicholas was from a place that is now part of Turkey, they
could have tried to reclaim him as a national emblem, but I didn't
actually see any Santas with star and crescent logos on their red
outfits).

I didn't know that about Santa. This is probably akin to hating kittens
and puppies in some people's minds, but actually, I detest Santa. The
I've said it. The American Santa is probably a far cry from the
Turkish
St. Nick, though.

I'm not at Santa fan, and any Santa ornaments etc were the first to go
during my simplification process. I don't have any particular problem
with him as a story for small children, but Santas for adults, at office
parties, and as a general, all-purpose symbol of the holiday - not for
me. Oh, if someone gives me a card with a Santa, I'm not going to turn
up my nose at it or the good wishes it represents, but I'm not going to
buy and give out cards with Santas on them myself, or wrap gifts in
Santa paper, or play 'secret Santa'...

Last year, on another group, and to a few here, I sent out homemade blank
cat cards that my DH made when we had our print shop back in 2001. They are
so cute and there is a set of 12 different ones of some of the kitties who
owned us
and depending on who I sent one to, I wished them the proper greeting.
Mostly it was Tidings of Comfort and Joy and a person message to who I was
writing it to.. I spent alot of time, with Mosey's help, writing these
cards, and sending them out, and it was done with love. We got about 30
cards from another kitty grooup, which I hung on the door and walls by the
door and I love them so much, they are still up there. Makes the place look
cheery and no Santas on a single one.

And LOTS of roast chestnuts, which I can't see anybody of
any religion having a problem with.

As long as they don't SING about it!

Agreed.

I've never had roast chestnuts, and I've always wondered if they taste
as good as they sound.

Personally, I don't care for them, or eggnog either.
I used to love egg nog, but now I can't stand it.

From my rare ventures to stores during the height of the Christmas
season, I've gathered that modern Christmas music is not to my taste. I
have a couple of boxes of tapes and CDs that are to my taste, so I'm all
set!

The only Christmas music I own is 2 CD's that my youngest sister sent me
with the Mormon Tabernacle singing the songs. Her dh sings in the choir.
They have beautiful music.

--
Cheryl

Aha! Staying away from the malls and large department stores is the
first thing I did too, when the "Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas" held
absolutely NO joy for me, not one iota. So how stupid is that? To
pretend you're celebrating something by stressing yourself crazy
and spending yourself into the poorhouse.

Right you are on that.

The holiday season is carefully orchestrated to where the consumer
really doesn't have a chance. It's evolved into customers trampling
each other (to death), all for the opportunity to spend money.

I love to get and receive cards, but I just haven't been up to it.
When you're not loving it, card-sending just turns into necessary
paperwork. I took the $40 I would have normally spent on postage
and sent to a wildlife rehabber that had taken some orphan squirrels
off my hands earlier in the year.

Bless your heart.

If you're not celebrating the Birth of Christ, I think it's logical
not
to use the term Christmas for the holidays. I just hate it when people
*tell* employees/others that they can't say it.

I agree with that. No trees in the malls,which I avoid like the plague,
can't sing carols any more, it's sad.
I am disabled with a limited income and can't afford gifts, and it's hard to
even get a few dollars together to send my 2 daughters and 8 grandkids.
But, they understand.
They usually send me pictures of the kids, and that's what us grannies love,
right?

Halloween is one of my favorite holidays too, and am completely
ignorant
(by choice) of the true origins, history, etc. It's the only chance
kids get
to pretend they're a pirate or a princess for an evening and eat
themselves
sick on candy. It's a celebration that the horrid 100 degree temps of
Aug. and Sept. are over with, the weather is indescribably beautiful
here
in October. It's carving jack-o-lanters, decorating with gourds and
chrysanthemums in bloom. And it still irritates me that the schools have put
a taboo
on the "H-Word" and now they have to say "Fall Festival."

You've got to be kidding me. I'm allergic to chrysanthemums and those
types of flowers.

Of course, this is the same school who decided the Rainbow Brite doll,
Smurfs and unicorns were evil. (????)

Really? Such close minded people they are. Pity. We live in a 71 unit
mobile home park for people age 55 and over and don't get trick or treaters.
I miss little kids, they are so cute.

So I guess that's my irony for the day.

"Irony is so ironic, isn't it ?" (Steve Martin)

Tidings of Comfort and Joy will be written on the few cards I send this year
as well.

Sherry

Kyla


..

"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
wrote:
to freak about this, so he started to come over to me. But in the
meantime,
my mother, who thought we were under nuclear attack, had gotten
down on
the kitchen floor in the belief that you could save yourself from
a nuclear
explosion if you were lying on the floor (wtf?). I was screaming
in panic

Well, the US Government spread that crazy idea through a series of
PSA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BEvd8S0vqM

At least that was one thing my school got right back in the crazy
fifties. They looked at the recommended nuclear attack drills and
then looked at a map. Less than two miles to the US Capitol
building. Definitely ground zero. We skipped the drills.

Jo

wrote:
Christina Websell wrote:

I did not like this new way at all last year and don't like it now.
I will continue with the "old" list for Christmas cards.
Not "holiday cards" what's that supposed to mean?

(NOTE TO YOWIE: I do not mean to trash your idea in the least. I'm just
going off on a tangent - see change of subject line.)

Ah, "holiday cards". Or the "holiday season" in general. That's where
people pretend they're being inclusive and "multicultural" by wishing
each other "happy holidays" and having "holiday" parties. But let's
face it, it's really all about Christmas. So yeah, I agree with you -
why not just call it what it is?

The only really big, major holiday in late December is Christmas.
Other holidays that just happen to occur around the same time, such
as Chanukah or Solstice, are not variations on Christmas. (Well, one
could easily argue that Christmas is a variation on the Solstice, but
I digress...) They may be important holidays in their own right, but
they're not a major holiday in those other religions the way Xmas is
in Christianity.

snip

Just to give another opinion - Almost everything that takes place now
during Christmas is entirely non-religious. I have absolutely no
objection whatsoever to calling the parties, the spending, the current
version of Santa (I know is was originally based on St. Nicholas),
almost all modern 'Christmas' music, the trees and decorations 'holiday'
parties etc etc. (For Tweed, I think there's a slight difference between
BrEng and Am/CanEng in 'holiday'; for me it doesn't have the slightest
connotation of summer and the beach. It means any time I don't have to
work.) They certainly aren't specific to the Christian celebration of
Christmas - which was, by the way, until the mid to late 1800s a
relatively minor feast. It still is, technically. Easter is the major
Christian feast, not Christmas. And Christmas doesn't start until
Christmas Day, and continues for 12 days. It certainly doesn't begin in
October.

Now, if people want to call the things that go on around December
'Christmas' out of sentiment, habit, tradition, or mere personal
preference, that's fine by me. As others have said, if you live in the
northern hemisphere, you really need a celebration of some sort in
December or January, and the name is not of major importance to me. But
in my opinion, there's no particular need to call most of them
'Christmas' just because that's the name of a Christian feast day that
they got attached to.

--
Cheryl

On Aug 28, 2:33*pm, wrote:


There's a context for all that anxiety and stress. Many economies are
heavily dependent on how well the retail sector does during the "holiday
rush", so there's a lot of "push, push, push" going on.

Xmas is actually a time for me to save some money!
Dave's mum sends us a voucher to cover the food- I'm not at work so I
save on fares and lunches.

Yes I do buy presents but as I don't get down to my brothers until
after Xmas I do my Xmas shopping just after and save a ridiculous
amount of money compared to what I would have paid out a few days
before, last year I gave my niece a huge box of her favourite "Body
shop" goodies for 1/2 the price they'd been before Xmas and my brother
got the book he wanted for 75% less (I hope they don't read this!)

Boxing Day we have an "at home" where friends are welcome to come
round and bring a bottle- with the voucher Dave's mum gave us I lay on
sandwiches and snacks. New Year's Day we have a party at our house-
the tradition started when some of us wanted to go to the West End to
see in the millenium and when we looked at what it might cost us we
all thought that was far far too much and instead had a party.
Everyone puts the same amount of money in and with a regular cast of 8
(9 last year) people and one of them in the off licence trade we have
more than enough for drinks and food. Dave burns some music CD's for
sound and we all have a great time. The next morning some have stayed
the night so they help tidy up (not a big job in a small flat with a
few people- most of whom are good about putting empty cans and used
paper plates in the bin at the time they've finished with them) amd I
do bacon and eggs for everyone. So we have a pretty good time but it
doesn't cost a fortune.

I know people who run up such huge credit card bills to cover Xmas
that they will have only just (and maybe not even that) paid them off
by next Xmas when they'll spend it again, Beats me why

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

hopitus wrote:
Living within ground zero range of a Prime Target. In the 80's, when
I lived in San Jose suburb, we lived near *5* Prime Targets (key
Fed military 411 storehouses, big AFB, Silicon Valley, etc.) Life
goes on.

There's a Super Target near my house, but no Prime Targets... lol...

For those of you outside the US, Target is a chain store, with some
"fancier/larger" stores dubbed "Super Target".

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

wrote:
Cheryl wrote:

If my friends and relatives and neighbours
want to call it 'winter holidays' and celebrate a secular shopping
extravaganza with Santa as a centrepiece, that's their choice.

I'd feel the same way if it wasn't in my face, constantly and at high
volume, from late October through New Year's Day.

That's why I stay away from stores. Well, it's part of the reason. I
don't like shopping much, so I generally only do it when I really need
something. But I make a special effort to do so when I know the stores
are going to be overcrowded and noisy. I get no TV ads now that I've got
a DVD player and have discovered free DVDs at the library. I didn't
watch much TV, but now I've gotten used to no ads, I watch essentially none.

I do sometimes think that maybe some people have lost more than they've
gained through these cultural changes when I see people who seem
overstressed and anxious and frantic through the whole season

There's a context for all that anxiety and stress. Many economies are
heavily dependent on how well the retail sector does during the "holiday
rush", so there's a lot of "push, push, push" going on. We're a social
species and *most* of us have inherited the tendency to be susceptible
to that kind of pressure. I know I am. It doesn't make me want to buy
stuff, but it sure does aggravate me.

We do tend to do what others do, but we can also re-define 'others' to
mean smaller groups than society as a whole. Families often have
slightly different cultures than the larger culture - as my mother used
to say, and if all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you do that too?

Sales are extremely important to the retail industry and those it
employs, of course. To a lesser extent, sales are important to people
working in some factories, shipping, and importing. It's not important
to all sectors of the economy, no matter what the claims of some public
figures are. Or, to be more specific, it's important that the retail
sector is able to provide a suitable selection of necessities. It's not
so important that it enable people to spend themselves into near
bankruptcy trying to keep up with the Jones' in the number and cost of
gifts they give each other. There are plenty of ways to enjoy
gift-giving and parties without doing that! And yet, the ads try to
convince us that we have to purchase a mountain of gifts, and decorate
and entertain expensively with new treats and ornaments every year. It's
not true, and it would drive me crazy if I tried to live that way.

--
Cheryl

Cheryl P. wrote:

wrote:

There's a context for all that anxiety and stress. Many economies are
heavily dependent on how well the retail sector does during the "holiday
rush", so there's a lot of "push, push, push" going on. We're a social
species and *most* of us have inherited the tendency to be susceptible
to that kind of pressure.

We do tend to do what others do, but we can also re-define 'others' to
mean smaller groups than society as a whole. Families often have
slightly different cultures than the larger culture - as my mother used
to say, and if all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you do that too?

LOL, sure, just because some people think it's fun to do something
stupid, doesn't mean everyone should automatically follow them.

But the Christmas gift-buying rush operates on more than just the
human impluse to copy other humans. It operates on *guilt*, and frames
gift-giving as an important way to show people how much you care about
them. Families can absolutely contribute to enforcing that pressure,
because if they buy into the idea that gifts mean love, and expensive
gifts mean more love, then if you don't buy gifts, or you buy inexpensive
ones, then you must not care about them very much. That leads to *genuine*
hurt feelings, and you can't manufacture that. For the companies that
sell all the goodies, it doesn't get much better than that, in terms of
keeping the pressure-to-buy machine going strong.

This fits in well with what you said about different families contributing
to this at varying levels, due to different family cultures. Some families
might be very happy to just share a nice time together at Christmas, without
gift-giving. Or maybe people make gifts for each other, or give away their
own beloved objects to each other, or maybe buy token gifts. Sounds like
a sweet way to celebrate the holiday to me.

In the US, it seems like such families are in the minority, though. Lord
knows, mine was not in that minority! My dad has a "thing" about gift-
giving and truly believes that it's deeply tied to how much you care about
a person. I had a number of psychologically damaging experiences around
this when I was young, where the monetary value of - or in some cases,
complete lack of - gifts from me was judged harshly, and I was pronounced
selfish, thoughtless, cheap, etc. I'm sure that's a big reason why the
advertising at Christmastime is so irritating to me, although in general
I find rampant consumerism depressing, because of all the damage it does
on so many levels.

Joyce

--
Speak your mind even if your voice cracks while you're saying it.