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Dorrie (And Old Cats)



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 22nd 04, 02:00 PM
Cowa Bungie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dorrie (And Old Cats)

I debated whether to post a follow-up to a post I made yesterday.
Enough people were kind to email me privately, and that convinced me
to post one final time with the caveat that I won't read group
responses to this one either (yesterday's, by "It's a Wonderful
Life22," was a positive health threat to someone with conditions I,
now, certainly won't identify here).

If not for rec.pets.cats.health+behav, I wouldn't have learned about
the why's and wherefore's of growing cat grass. I wouldn't have had
the support by other cat owners throughout the very difficult past
year. But I'm sick wondering about the awful things that were said
about me in follow-ups, as someone who emailed me privately averted
to. Why have members of this group who are routinely kind,
responsible, and humane allowed this woman (because in my gut I am
certain the various email addresses can all be traced to the same
vicious soul) to continue to wound innocent men and women who find
their way here seeking help for their cats?

As I've said in private posts, humans are animals too, and unless you
are endowed with money from an endless trust fund, advising veterinary
care every time someone posts with a problem--while often wise,
commonsensical, and realistic--is just not do-able for a great many of
us human animals. What happens when the vet tells you your animal is
in need of care you UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES can afford? What then?

Twenty years ago, I used to keep parakeets. I allowed them to be
free-flying, just as I allow Dorrie to prowl at night. I do not try
to make humans out of animals, even though I know they'd like to make
animals out of us! I always took my parakeets to vets, only to be
told that all--ALL--the problems I sought help with would require
boarding, surgeries, and aftercare that as a grad student I was in no
way able to afford. In all cases, I opted for euthanasia.

So: What is more honorable, to take in an unwanted and unloved animal
headed for neglect, suffering, starvation, or--if she's lucky--the
pound; and to give her the best care you possibly can, or to let that
stray walk on by and say "Sorry, can't help you. Can't afford vets.
Can't afford blood tests. Can't afford vet dentists?" I'm aware that
other former posters here have responded similarly. A little
passive-aggression goes a long way.

When cats or humans age, we develop all kinds of nasty health
problems. I volunteer at nursing homes where all kinds of nasty odors
and sights and events occur. I and the staff know that there is no
sense shuffling the aged patient off to a hospital or calling his or
her doctor, because age brings with it undesirable conditions that
cannot be cured. Ever see beards on old women? Ever change the
diaper of a wheelchair bound man who's just eaten beans and garlic?
It's not pretty, but you do what you can to help, and you smile.

Cats get old too. I do not believe Dorrie will leap like Jack LaLanne
into her grave. As a vegetarian, I believe that the outdoors and
greens may prolong her life, but they certainly won't keep her from
developping all the aesthetically offensive smells and sounds and
appearances OLD CATS develop.

SimonBarSinister just posted about finding and rescuing Rusty and
giving him the best year of his life, and God bless him for it. But I
think Rusty would also have had the best year of his life if someone
just took that poor soul into a warm kitchen and fed him Nine Lives.

Let me make one thing clear, and then I'm signing off forever as far
as public posts are concerned. Don't any of you ever delude
yourselves into thinking that Love-without-Money is not Love. If you
do, you are worse than hypocrites. You're a sadist who has too much
time on her hands--to torment, not support, other cat lovers.

Let me repeat the word, because I've witnessed it in action far too
often, by the same one or two posters--or, should I say, by the same
poster with several personalities. This group is not
rec.pets.cats.judgment+sadism.
  #2  
Old September 22nd 04, 04:55 PM
Mary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Cowa Bungie" wrote in message
m...
I debated whether to post a follow-up to a post I made yesterday.
Enough people were kind to email me privately, and that convinced me
to post one final time with the caveat that I won't read group
responses to this one either (yesterday's, by "It's a Wonderful
Life22," was a positive health threat to someone with conditions I,
now, certainly won't identify here).


Does this make you feel better? It seems to.


If not for rec.pets.cats.health+behav, I wouldn't have learned about
the why's and wherefore's of growing cat grass. I wouldn't have had
the support by other cat owners throughout the very difficult past
year. But I'm sick wondering about the awful things that were said
about me in follow-ups, as someone who emailed me privately averted
to.


Then you are far too fragile for Usenet, and possibly for this world.
When you show vulnerability, when you show emotion, when you
display your helplessness (poverty, despair, pessimism) to any
given population, some will comfort you, some will dismiss you
as weak and/or "disturbed" and others will interpret it as a sign
of weakness that signals them to take you down a few MORE
notches. Basic human nature, and partly why I tend to prefer
animals to humans.


Why have members of this group who are routinely kind,
responsible, and humane allowed this woman (because in my gut I am
certain the various email addresses can all be traced to the same
vicious soul) to continue to wound innocent men and women who find
their way here seeking help for their cats?


Because this is a free and uncensored forum. Even though the feds are
indeed monitoring Usenet for "terrorist activity," however that is defined
today. If you can dish it out but you can't take it, you are probably right
to hand in your spoon. Slugging it out with the assholes of the world is
infinitely better than trying to mold a free and open forum to your
personal specifications. Your "kinder gentler" rpch+b, just like Kelly H's
and others, is just a censor's dream. I don't like censorship. I like the
free
and open exchange of ideas. Too rough for you? Exercise your freedom
and bow out. But you will not silence others. Actually, you may silence
others--the fearful, the cowards, the people who lack the cohones to
be straightforward and would rather snipe at others in private emails
where they can preach to the choir and be as nasty as they want without
ever having to take responsibility for their words. What you won't do is
silence me. That you want to silence anyone, rather than finding a
gd backbone and either standing up for yourself or just ignoring the posters
you don't like relegates you to the realm of the petty cowards who are
running this world today in my book. You're not mentally ill, that's for
sure. Your heart is in the right place, but you lack backbone.


As I've said in private posts, humans are animals too, and unless you
are endowed with money from an endless trust fund, advising veterinary
care every time someone posts with a problem--while often wise,
commonsensical, and realistic--is just not do-able for a great many of
us human animals. What happens when the vet tells you your animal is
in need of care you UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES can afford? What then?


People like you, who give up so easily, opt for euthanasia. I have the
disturbing feeling that you don't go too far out of your way to find
help for these creatures who are such a comfort to you. You found
the money to buy a computer last year, after all. There are resources
for people who want to help animals. Ever try calling every damned
vet in the book to ask if they will donate help? I don't think you
have. And why not?

[...]

So: What is more honorable, to take in an unwanted and unloved animal
headed for neglect, suffering, starvation, or--if she's lucky--the
pound; and to give her the best care you possibly can, or to let that
stray walk on by and say "Sorry, can't help you.


It is not an "either/or proposition." Not as long as there are people who
are willing to help--not only vets but shelters where people donate time
and money to help animals in need. What bothers me about you is that
you are just too eager to throw your hands up and simply let Dorrie suffer.
Is this part of the drama of being tragic? Or what? To have this little cat
you cannot care for and come here and tell everyone all about how her
suffering makes you suffer? The SMELL of her sickness sickens you?
Come on, woman. Don't wallow in that bull****. Call a shelter and see
what they can recommend. Call some vets. And don't respond immediately
with "that won't work." Just TRY.



When cats or humans age, we develop all kinds of nasty health
problems. I volunteer at nursing homes where all kinds of nasty odors
and sights and events occur. I and the staff know that there is no
sense shuffling the aged patient off to a hospital or calling his or
her doctor, because age brings with it undesirable conditions that
cannot be cured. Ever see beards on old women? Ever change the
diaper of a wheelchair bound man who's just eaten beans and garlic?
It's not pretty, but you do what you can to help, and you smile.


And maybe suggest that he not have beans and garlic next time?
If there is one thing worse than someone who will not help, that
might be someone who will but then has to talk about how gross
it was. Doing it to Dorrie, doing it to the old people. Why?


Cats get old too. I do not believe Dorrie will leap like Jack LaLanne
into her grave. As a vegetarian, I believe that the outdoors and
greens may prolong her life, but they certainly won't keep her from
developping all the aesthetically offensive smells and sounds and
appearances OLD CATS develop.


You're focusing on the scatalogical way too much. Get out. Open
some windows. My old cat smelled sweet until the day she died.
I know some pretty damned sweet smelling old people too. They
might have to WORK at it though. Of course, I wouldn't know,
because instead of whining about whatever it is they just fix it. See?


SimonBarSinister just posted about finding and rescuing Rusty and
giving him the best year of his life, and God bless him for it. But I
think Rusty would also have had the best year of his life if someone
just took that poor soul into a warm kitchen and fed him Nine Lives.


If that is the best ANYONE can do, then sure. But you don't know that
until you try to get help for the cat.


Let me make one thing clear, and then I'm signing off forever as far
as public posts are concerned. Don't any of you ever delude
yourselves into thinking that Love-without-Money is not Love.


Love without money is fine. Love without the sense to make a serious
effort find some resources to help those one loves sucks the big one. It
amounts to drawing animals into your own misery. You seem to want to
wallow in misery. Why?

If you do, you are worse than hypocrites. You're a sadist who has too much
time on her hands--to torment, not support, other cat lovers.
Let me repeat the word, because I've witnessed it in action far too
often, by the same one or two posters--or, should I say, by the same
poster with several personalities. This group is not
rec.pets.cats.judgment+sadism.


Sometimes the truth hurts. Nobody has any obligation to limp
before the lame or whisper among those too timid to be
straightforward. You give up too easily. For you, that might
be just fine, but for the creatures in your care, it might as well
be a goddamned crime. As long as there is one person in the
world who would get Dorrie the medical care she needs AND
love her, you are doing her a disservice. I can alreasy see the
false dichotomy you will set up: "It's either suffer or be euthanized."
But it is NOT. There are too many people who give their resources
to help cats NO MATTER WHOSE CAT everyday. Make some
calls. Get Dorrie some help. And if all you plan to do here is
display your poverty and misery and that of your cat while
claiming there is "nothing you can do" about either, I for one
will be happier not reading about it.

Good luck.


  #3  
Old September 22nd 04, 04:55 PM
Mary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Cowa Bungie" wrote in message
m...
I debated whether to post a follow-up to a post I made yesterday.
Enough people were kind to email me privately, and that convinced me
to post one final time with the caveat that I won't read group
responses to this one either (yesterday's, by "It's a Wonderful
Life22," was a positive health threat to someone with conditions I,
now, certainly won't identify here).


Does this make you feel better? It seems to.


If not for rec.pets.cats.health+behav, I wouldn't have learned about
the why's and wherefore's of growing cat grass. I wouldn't have had
the support by other cat owners throughout the very difficult past
year. But I'm sick wondering about the awful things that were said
about me in follow-ups, as someone who emailed me privately averted
to.


Then you are far too fragile for Usenet, and possibly for this world.
When you show vulnerability, when you show emotion, when you
display your helplessness (poverty, despair, pessimism) to any
given population, some will comfort you, some will dismiss you
as weak and/or "disturbed" and others will interpret it as a sign
of weakness that signals them to take you down a few MORE
notches. Basic human nature, and partly why I tend to prefer
animals to humans.


Why have members of this group who are routinely kind,
responsible, and humane allowed this woman (because in my gut I am
certain the various email addresses can all be traced to the same
vicious soul) to continue to wound innocent men and women who find
their way here seeking help for their cats?


Because this is a free and uncensored forum. Even though the feds are
indeed monitoring Usenet for "terrorist activity," however that is defined
today. If you can dish it out but you can't take it, you are probably right
to hand in your spoon. Slugging it out with the assholes of the world is
infinitely better than trying to mold a free and open forum to your
personal specifications. Your "kinder gentler" rpch+b, just like Kelly H's
and others, is just a censor's dream. I don't like censorship. I like the
free
and open exchange of ideas. Too rough for you? Exercise your freedom
and bow out. But you will not silence others. Actually, you may silence
others--the fearful, the cowards, the people who lack the cohones to
be straightforward and would rather snipe at others in private emails
where they can preach to the choir and be as nasty as they want without
ever having to take responsibility for their words. What you won't do is
silence me. That you want to silence anyone, rather than finding a
gd backbone and either standing up for yourself or just ignoring the posters
you don't like relegates you to the realm of the petty cowards who are
running this world today in my book. You're not mentally ill, that's for
sure. Your heart is in the right place, but you lack backbone.


As I've said in private posts, humans are animals too, and unless you
are endowed with money from an endless trust fund, advising veterinary
care every time someone posts with a problem--while often wise,
commonsensical, and realistic--is just not do-able for a great many of
us human animals. What happens when the vet tells you your animal is
in need of care you UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES can afford? What then?


People like you, who give up so easily, opt for euthanasia. I have the
disturbing feeling that you don't go too far out of your way to find
help for these creatures who are such a comfort to you. You found
the money to buy a computer last year, after all. There are resources
for people who want to help animals. Ever try calling every damned
vet in the book to ask if they will donate help? I don't think you
have. And why not?

[...]

So: What is more honorable, to take in an unwanted and unloved animal
headed for neglect, suffering, starvation, or--if she's lucky--the
pound; and to give her the best care you possibly can, or to let that
stray walk on by and say "Sorry, can't help you.


It is not an "either/or proposition." Not as long as there are people who
are willing to help--not only vets but shelters where people donate time
and money to help animals in need. What bothers me about you is that
you are just too eager to throw your hands up and simply let Dorrie suffer.
Is this part of the drama of being tragic? Or what? To have this little cat
you cannot care for and come here and tell everyone all about how her
suffering makes you suffer? The SMELL of her sickness sickens you?
Come on, woman. Don't wallow in that bull****. Call a shelter and see
what they can recommend. Call some vets. And don't respond immediately
with "that won't work." Just TRY.



When cats or humans age, we develop all kinds of nasty health
problems. I volunteer at nursing homes where all kinds of nasty odors
and sights and events occur. I and the staff know that there is no
sense shuffling the aged patient off to a hospital or calling his or
her doctor, because age brings with it undesirable conditions that
cannot be cured. Ever see beards on old women? Ever change the
diaper of a wheelchair bound man who's just eaten beans and garlic?
It's not pretty, but you do what you can to help, and you smile.


And maybe suggest that he not have beans and garlic next time?
If there is one thing worse than someone who will not help, that
might be someone who will but then has to talk about how gross
it was. Doing it to Dorrie, doing it to the old people. Why?


Cats get old too. I do not believe Dorrie will leap like Jack LaLanne
into her grave. As a vegetarian, I believe that the outdoors and
greens may prolong her life, but they certainly won't keep her from
developping all the aesthetically offensive smells and sounds and
appearances OLD CATS develop.


You're focusing on the scatalogical way too much. Get out. Open
some windows. My old cat smelled sweet until the day she died.
I know some pretty damned sweet smelling old people too. They
might have to WORK at it though. Of course, I wouldn't know,
because instead of whining about whatever it is they just fix it. See?


SimonBarSinister just posted about finding and rescuing Rusty and
giving him the best year of his life, and God bless him for it. But I
think Rusty would also have had the best year of his life if someone
just took that poor soul into a warm kitchen and fed him Nine Lives.


If that is the best ANYONE can do, then sure. But you don't know that
until you try to get help for the cat.


Let me make one thing clear, and then I'm signing off forever as far
as public posts are concerned. Don't any of you ever delude
yourselves into thinking that Love-without-Money is not Love.


Love without money is fine. Love without the sense to make a serious
effort find some resources to help those one loves sucks the big one. It
amounts to drawing animals into your own misery. You seem to want to
wallow in misery. Why?

If you do, you are worse than hypocrites. You're a sadist who has too much
time on her hands--to torment, not support, other cat lovers.
Let me repeat the word, because I've witnessed it in action far too
often, by the same one or two posters--or, should I say, by the same
poster with several personalities. This group is not
rec.pets.cats.judgment+sadism.


Sometimes the truth hurts. Nobody has any obligation to limp
before the lame or whisper among those too timid to be
straightforward. You give up too easily. For you, that might
be just fine, but for the creatures in your care, it might as well
be a goddamned crime. As long as there is one person in the
world who would get Dorrie the medical care she needs AND
love her, you are doing her a disservice. I can alreasy see the
false dichotomy you will set up: "It's either suffer or be euthanized."
But it is NOT. There are too many people who give their resources
to help cats NO MATTER WHOSE CAT everyday. Make some
calls. Get Dorrie some help. And if all you plan to do here is
display your poverty and misery and that of your cat while
claiming there is "nothing you can do" about either, I for one
will be happier not reading about it.

Good luck.


  #4  
Old September 23rd 04, 02:52 AM
MacCandace
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

And if all you plan to do here is
display your poverty and misery and that of your cat while
claiming there is "nothing you can do" about either, I for one
will be happier not reading about it.

Well, wow, Mary, I have to say I'm a little confused. You jumped all over what
Megan said to Dorrie's mom and, yet, the things you have said are just as bad
or worse. I kind of hope she meant what she said and isn't going to read the
followups. While I agree that, when one puts oneself "out there" on usenet,
one is liable to get any sort of response including negative, it seems as
though you're making just as much of a value judgement on her
character/personality/life/emotional state/what-have-you as Megan did.

Then you are far too fragile for Usenet, and possibly for this world.

Remember that song, "Starry, Starry Night"? "Oh, Vincent, the world was never
meant for one as beautiful as you." Maybe H. is just more gentle than many of
us.

That you want to silence anyone, rather than finding a
gd backbone and either standing up for yourself or just ignoring the posters
you don't like relegates you to the realm of the petty cowards who are
running this world today in my book.

Sounds like you're defending Megan, then, so where's the problem with what
Megan said? Like I posted, I wouldn't have said it but I like Megan and I know
she has been misinterpreted by many others, too. I seriously doubt if she
meant to hurt H. but she's an outspoken woman.

Is this part of the drama of being tragic?
You seem to want to wallow in misery.
Your heart is in the right place, but you lack backbone.

Why isn't that as bad as what Megan said? I think I'd rather be accused of
having an anxiety disorder instead of being a miserable, cowardly, drama queen.

I just don't see why what Megan said is worse. Sounds like you're on the same
page.










Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)
  #5  
Old September 23rd 04, 02:52 AM
MacCandace
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

And if all you plan to do here is
display your poverty and misery and that of your cat while
claiming there is "nothing you can do" about either, I for one
will be happier not reading about it.

Well, wow, Mary, I have to say I'm a little confused. You jumped all over what
Megan said to Dorrie's mom and, yet, the things you have said are just as bad
or worse. I kind of hope she meant what she said and isn't going to read the
followups. While I agree that, when one puts oneself "out there" on usenet,
one is liable to get any sort of response including negative, it seems as
though you're making just as much of a value judgement on her
character/personality/life/emotional state/what-have-you as Megan did.

Then you are far too fragile for Usenet, and possibly for this world.

Remember that song, "Starry, Starry Night"? "Oh, Vincent, the world was never
meant for one as beautiful as you." Maybe H. is just more gentle than many of
us.

That you want to silence anyone, rather than finding a
gd backbone and either standing up for yourself or just ignoring the posters
you don't like relegates you to the realm of the petty cowards who are
running this world today in my book.

Sounds like you're defending Megan, then, so where's the problem with what
Megan said? Like I posted, I wouldn't have said it but I like Megan and I know
she has been misinterpreted by many others, too. I seriously doubt if she
meant to hurt H. but she's an outspoken woman.

Is this part of the drama of being tragic?
You seem to want to wallow in misery.
Your heart is in the right place, but you lack backbone.

Why isn't that as bad as what Megan said? I think I'd rather be accused of
having an anxiety disorder instead of being a miserable, cowardly, drama queen.

I just don't see why what Megan said is worse. Sounds like you're on the same
page.










Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)
  #6  
Old September 23rd 04, 02:58 AM
MacCandace
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Posted and emailed:

But I'm sick wondering about the awful things that were said
about me in follow-ups, as someone who emailed me privately averted
to.

You know, I've read all your posts in the last few months and responded to many
(as you know) and I have to honestly say I don't recall people talking about
you in follow-ups. Maybe someone told you they did but I sure don't remember
it and I have a good memory. You can google your posts to find out for sure
and, if it's really bothering you what people said, I would do so because I
don't think you'll find anything.

allowed this woman (because in my gut I am
certain the various email addresses can all be traced to the same vicious soul)


If you're referring to Megan, she doesn't use various email addresses. She
only uses one as far as I know and I've "known" her online for a few years.

I'm just setting the record straight here as I think both of these statements
are inaccurate.


Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)
  #7  
Old September 23rd 04, 02:58 AM
MacCandace
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Posted and emailed:

But I'm sick wondering about the awful things that were said
about me in follow-ups, as someone who emailed me privately averted
to.

You know, I've read all your posts in the last few months and responded to many
(as you know) and I have to honestly say I don't recall people talking about
you in follow-ups. Maybe someone told you they did but I sure don't remember
it and I have a good memory. You can google your posts to find out for sure
and, if it's really bothering you what people said, I would do so because I
don't think you'll find anything.

allowed this woman (because in my gut I am
certain the various email addresses can all be traced to the same vicious soul)


If you're referring to Megan, she doesn't use various email addresses. She
only uses one as far as I know and I've "known" her online for a few years.

I'm just setting the record straight here as I think both of these statements
are inaccurate.


Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)
  #8  
Old September 23rd 04, 03:28 AM
Mary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"MacCandace" wrote in message
...
And if all you plan to do here is
display your poverty and misery and that of your cat while
claiming there is "nothing you can do" about either, I for one
will be happier not reading about it.

Well, wow, Mary, I have to say I'm a little confused. You jumped all over

what
Megan said to Dorrie's mom and, yet, the things you have said are just as

bad
or worse.


Sorry to confuse you. Let me clear a few things up for you. I responded to
the topic
Hilary posted as honestly as I could. Megan on the other hand answered the
question:
"What do I do about my cat's flatulance" by saying "I've gone over your
Google
history and you need psychiatric help." Not the same thing at all. As for
the things
I said being "bad," well, that's a subjective judgment. I asked Hilary
several
questions, and I offered her several observations. What I did NOT do was
suggest that she is out of her mind, or fail to address the topics she
raised.


I kind of hope she meant what she said and isn't going to read the
followups.


I don't really care either way. I think my points were valid and my
questions reasonable. She raised a topic and I responded. That's
the way it works. It's up to her to read it or not. I've had my say
so I am happy.


While I agree that, when one puts oneself "out there" on usenet,
one is liable to get any sort of response including negative, it seems as
though you're making just as much of a value judgement on her
character/personality/life/emotional state/what-have-you as Megan did.


I made specific observations about her statements. She asked questions
and I answered them. I also asked her additional questions. I did not
suggest
that she not ask questions about cat flatulence or anything else, and I did
not
suggest that this is not the place for her to discuss her concerns, that a
shrink
might be a better choice. Value judgment? This is a discussion. Use your
mind.
Learn to make disctinctions.


Then you are far too fragile for Usenet, and possibly for this world.


Remember that song, "Starry, Starry Night"? "Oh, Vincent, the world was

never
meant for one as beautiful as you." Maybe H. is just more gentle than

many of
us.


Maybe. Did I say that was a bad thing? Read the gd post. Read it and
THINK about it. I gave her my opinions on what happens when one
pours one's despair and pessimism and defeatist attitudes out in a public
forum. Generally three things. Etc. What I wrote needs no further
explanation.
What I had to say to Hilary differed vastly from what Megan had to say to
her.
How? Go back and look. Brain in gear.



That you want to silence anyone, rather than finding a
gd backbone and either standing up for yourself or just ignoring the

posters
you don't like relegates you to the realm of the petty cowards who are
running this world today in my book.

Sounds like you're defending Megan, then, so where's the problem with what
Megan said?


You're making too many assumptions. What I meant is what I wrote--very
simple.
It doesn't matter WHO she wants to silence. What matters is the attempt to
silence.
This is a discussion forum. The same thing that made me react negatively to
Megan
NOT answering Hilary's question re her smelly cat (she instead refused to
answer it
and essentially said that the fact Hilary brought it up meant that she needs
"help") is what
caused me to react negatively to Hilary demanding that the "nice people
here"
put a stop to the nasty, nasty posts she never really attributed to anyone
in
particular. What do both things have in common? A core of attempted
censorship. A refusal to use a free and unmoderated forum for what
it is--a place to discuss. Share information. Not a nicey-nice social club.
Not a place where you shut someone up by suggesting they "get help." It's
very
simple.

Like I posted, I wouldn't have said it but I like Megan and I know
she has been misinterpreted by many others, too. I seriously doubt if she
meant to hurt H. but she's an outspoken woman.

Is this part of the drama of being tragic?
You seem to want to wallow in misery.
Your heart is in the right place, but you lack backbone.

Why isn't that as bad as what Megan said? I think I'd rather be accused

of
having an anxiety disorder instead of being a miserable, cowardly, drama

queen.

It may be just as bad. It's your call. And hers, and his, and etc. This is
my opinion,
my response to the topics Hilary brought up. Short of repeating everything I
said, that is all I can say.


I just don't see why what Megan said is worse. Sounds like you're on the

same
page.



Everything I say may be "worse" than everything Megan says. I'm not even
sure what that means. I never claimed to be superior to Megan, after all. If
you want
to understand the difference between Megan's comments and my own, the
distinctions lie he

1. Megan responded to Hilary's question about how to make her cat
smell better by saying "you need psychiatric help."

2. I responded to Hilary's new post, the topics of which were several,
with specific answers to specific questions she asked. Specifics. Answers.
And some questions for her. And a couple of observations like the fact
that she might change her focus (from, say, the scatalogical i.e. the
general stinkiness of old things and creatures, to, oh, I don't know--
opening the windows, airing the place out, and seeing what the new
day brings?) and feel better. I suggested that she is not helpless. I
suggested (or, actually, implied) that there are better ways to get
the attention we all need than to wallow in helplessness and
sadness. I did not suggest that Hilary needs professionaly help.
I made other suggestions to Hilary.

Think they were mean and nasty and cruel? Well, I guess you
are entitled. In fact, I am certain you are entitled. I love a
good discussion.


  #9  
Old September 23rd 04, 03:28 AM
Mary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"MacCandace" wrote in message
...
And if all you plan to do here is
display your poverty and misery and that of your cat while
claiming there is "nothing you can do" about either, I for one
will be happier not reading about it.

Well, wow, Mary, I have to say I'm a little confused. You jumped all over

what
Megan said to Dorrie's mom and, yet, the things you have said are just as

bad
or worse.


Sorry to confuse you. Let me clear a few things up for you. I responded to
the topic
Hilary posted as honestly as I could. Megan on the other hand answered the
question:
"What do I do about my cat's flatulance" by saying "I've gone over your
Google
history and you need psychiatric help." Not the same thing at all. As for
the things
I said being "bad," well, that's a subjective judgment. I asked Hilary
several
questions, and I offered her several observations. What I did NOT do was
suggest that she is out of her mind, or fail to address the topics she
raised.


I kind of hope she meant what she said and isn't going to read the
followups.


I don't really care either way. I think my points were valid and my
questions reasonable. She raised a topic and I responded. That's
the way it works. It's up to her to read it or not. I've had my say
so I am happy.


While I agree that, when one puts oneself "out there" on usenet,
one is liable to get any sort of response including negative, it seems as
though you're making just as much of a value judgement on her
character/personality/life/emotional state/what-have-you as Megan did.


I made specific observations about her statements. She asked questions
and I answered them. I also asked her additional questions. I did not
suggest
that she not ask questions about cat flatulence or anything else, and I did
not
suggest that this is not the place for her to discuss her concerns, that a
shrink
might be a better choice. Value judgment? This is a discussion. Use your
mind.
Learn to make disctinctions.


Then you are far too fragile for Usenet, and possibly for this world.


Remember that song, "Starry, Starry Night"? "Oh, Vincent, the world was

never
meant for one as beautiful as you." Maybe H. is just more gentle than

many of
us.


Maybe. Did I say that was a bad thing? Read the gd post. Read it and
THINK about it. I gave her my opinions on what happens when one
pours one's despair and pessimism and defeatist attitudes out in a public
forum. Generally three things. Etc. What I wrote needs no further
explanation.
What I had to say to Hilary differed vastly from what Megan had to say to
her.
How? Go back and look. Brain in gear.



That you want to silence anyone, rather than finding a
gd backbone and either standing up for yourself or just ignoring the

posters
you don't like relegates you to the realm of the petty cowards who are
running this world today in my book.

Sounds like you're defending Megan, then, so where's the problem with what
Megan said?


You're making too many assumptions. What I meant is what I wrote--very
simple.
It doesn't matter WHO she wants to silence. What matters is the attempt to
silence.
This is a discussion forum. The same thing that made me react negatively to
Megan
NOT answering Hilary's question re her smelly cat (she instead refused to
answer it
and essentially said that the fact Hilary brought it up meant that she needs
"help") is what
caused me to react negatively to Hilary demanding that the "nice people
here"
put a stop to the nasty, nasty posts she never really attributed to anyone
in
particular. What do both things have in common? A core of attempted
censorship. A refusal to use a free and unmoderated forum for what
it is--a place to discuss. Share information. Not a nicey-nice social club.
Not a place where you shut someone up by suggesting they "get help." It's
very
simple.

Like I posted, I wouldn't have said it but I like Megan and I know
she has been misinterpreted by many others, too. I seriously doubt if she
meant to hurt H. but she's an outspoken woman.

Is this part of the drama of being tragic?
You seem to want to wallow in misery.
Your heart is in the right place, but you lack backbone.

Why isn't that as bad as what Megan said? I think I'd rather be accused

of
having an anxiety disorder instead of being a miserable, cowardly, drama

queen.

It may be just as bad. It's your call. And hers, and his, and etc. This is
my opinion,
my response to the topics Hilary brought up. Short of repeating everything I
said, that is all I can say.


I just don't see why what Megan said is worse. Sounds like you're on the

same
page.



Everything I say may be "worse" than everything Megan says. I'm not even
sure what that means. I never claimed to be superior to Megan, after all. If
you want
to understand the difference between Megan's comments and my own, the
distinctions lie he

1. Megan responded to Hilary's question about how to make her cat
smell better by saying "you need psychiatric help."

2. I responded to Hilary's new post, the topics of which were several,
with specific answers to specific questions she asked. Specifics. Answers.
And some questions for her. And a couple of observations like the fact
that she might change her focus (from, say, the scatalogical i.e. the
general stinkiness of old things and creatures, to, oh, I don't know--
opening the windows, airing the place out, and seeing what the new
day brings?) and feel better. I suggested that she is not helpless. I
suggested (or, actually, implied) that there are better ways to get
the attention we all need than to wallow in helplessness and
sadness. I did not suggest that Hilary needs professionaly help.
I made other suggestions to Hilary.

Think they were mean and nasty and cruel? Well, I guess you
are entitled. In fact, I am certain you are entitled. I love a
good discussion.


  #10  
Old September 23rd 04, 04:21 AM
MacCandace
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Well, I guess you
are entitled. In fact, I am certain you are entitled. I love a
good discussion.

Oh, well, it looks like it's just you and me so I don't think anyone else gives
a crap. We both said what we had to say so I guess that's it for this unless
someone else jumps in.


Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)
 




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