Companion for Kitten?

"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message
...
On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:36:35 -0500, "Judy"
wrote:


"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:52:41 GMT, "Iso" wrote:

Remember that cats do not need to be social creatures

Yes they do - they are highly social creatures.

Try telling this to Matilda. Nothing she loves more (apart from her chow)
than to skin another cat. :c)

Indeed, but establishing their status in the local social order is
part of the social nature of cats.

I agree and when it comes to the local social order - Matilda prefers to be
on top of things.


- unlike the
pack-orientated dog; they function happily on their own without a
social
structure around them.

No they do not, that is one of the most common causes of stress in
cats.

Oh I know! Matilda gets very stressed when she isn't able to socialize
with
other cats in her special way. LOL

I know a couple of humans like that

How true! At times there's nothing better than a good "hissy fit." Keeps
life interesting and the ball rolling. :c)

Judy

--
Bob.

Laugh and the world laughs with you... Cry, and the world looks
sheepish and suddenly remembers it had other plans.

Cats are indeed a solitary species. But they can and do live in groups. This
seems confusing to us because we are social animals and have a difficult
time understanding and accepting a different social structure. Our other
companion pet, the dog, is also a social or pack animal. He fits right in
with our way of thinking and living. The cat does not. We tend to look at
our pets as little people with human emotions and needs. When our cat does
not accept or become friends with the new cat we bring home, we
automatically think something is wrong and that both cats are unhappy.
That's because we're superimposing on the cat our standards for "happiness."
Cats can live in groups but they don't need to. For social/pack animals such
as humans and dogs, living and functioning as a group is a necessity. The
process of domestication facilitates social interaction of cats with other
cats and humans. Kittens are usually quite friendly and playful with other
cats and their human family. They participate in family functions. We
perpetuate these kitten qualities through ongoing care and play with them.
The kitten matures physically, but mentally retains kitten-like behavior.
Cats that retain kitten-like behavior adjust to and probably prefer group
living.

Cats are indeed a solitary species. But they can and do live in groups. This
seems confusing to us because we are social animals and have a difficult
time understanding and accepting a different social structure. Our other
companion pet, the dog, is also a social or pack animal. He fits right in
with our way of thinking and living. The cat does not. We tend to look at
our pets as little people with human emotions and needs. When our cat does
not accept or become friends with the new cat we bring home, we
automatically think something is wrong and that both cats are unhappy.
That's because we're superimposing on the cat our standards for "happiness."
Cats can live in groups but they don't need to. For social/pack animals such
as humans and dogs, living and functioning as a group is a necessity. The
process of domestication facilitates social interaction of cats with other
cats and humans. Kittens are usually quite friendly and playful with other
cats and their human family. They participate in family functions. We
perpetuate these kitten qualities through ongoing care and play with them.
The kitten matures physically, but mentally retains kitten-like behavior.
Cats that retain kitten-like behavior adjust to and probably prefer group
living.

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:51:03 GMT, "Iso" wrote:

Cats are indeed a solitary species.

No they are not, far from it.

But they can and do live in groups.

They prefer to live in groups, though they will toller ate isolation.

This
seems confusing to us because we are social animals and have a difficult
time understanding and accepting a different social structure. Our other
companion pet, the dog, is also a social or pack animal.

The dog is a pack animal, not a social animal - there is a difference.

He fits right in
with our way of thinking and living.

No, the dog fits in with th e common human misconception that we are
the bosses.

The cat does not.

Toooooo true - the cats knows IT is the boss.

We tend to look at
our pets as little people with human emotions and needs.

Not if we are real animal lovers.

When our cat does
not accept or become friends with the new cat we bring home, we
automatically think something is wrong and that both cats are unhappy.
That's because we're superimposing on the cat our standards for "happiness."
Cats can live in groups but they don't need to.

Cats can live in isolation, but they don't like to - they prefer a
social group.

For social/pack animals such
as humans and dogs, living and functioning as a group is a necessity.

You confuse two different things. Dogs are pack animals, while it is a
form of socialization it is not the same as the complex social
structures of humans and cats.

The
process of domestication facilitates social interaction of cats with other
cats and humans.

Cats are not domesticated.

Kittens are usually quite friendly and playful with other
cats and their human family. They participate in family functions. We
perpetuate these kitten qualities through ongoing care and play with them.
The kitten matures physically, but mentally retains kitten-like behavior.
Cats that retain kitten-like behavior adjust to and probably prefer group
living.

One reason cats moved in with man is that it gave the cat even greater
scope for social relationships - both with humans and with other cats.

Over the last 10 or so thousand years the cat has trained us very
well, real cat lovers allow their cats to be cats while providing them
with shelter and good food. I hope our partnership with cats lasts
another 10,000 years.

--
Bob.

Cats know what we feel. They don't always care, but they know.

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:51:03 GMT, "Iso" wrote:

Cats are indeed a solitary species.

No they are not, far from it.

But they can and do live in groups.

They prefer to live in groups, though they will toller ate isolation.

This
seems confusing to us because we are social animals and have a difficult
time understanding and accepting a different social structure. Our other
companion pet, the dog, is also a social or pack animal.

The dog is a pack animal, not a social animal - there is a difference.

He fits right in
with our way of thinking and living.

No, the dog fits in with th e common human misconception that we are
the bosses.

The cat does not.

Toooooo true - the cats knows IT is the boss.

We tend to look at
our pets as little people with human emotions and needs.

Not if we are real animal lovers.

When our cat does
not accept or become friends with the new cat we bring home, we
automatically think something is wrong and that both cats are unhappy.
That's because we're superimposing on the cat our standards for "happiness."
Cats can live in groups but they don't need to.

Cats can live in isolation, but they don't like to - they prefer a
social group.

For social/pack animals such
as humans and dogs, living and functioning as a group is a necessity.

You confuse two different things. Dogs are pack animals, while it is a
form of socialization it is not the same as the complex social
structures of humans and cats.

The
process of domestication facilitates social interaction of cats with other
cats and humans.

Cats are not domesticated.

Kittens are usually quite friendly and playful with other
cats and their human family. They participate in family functions. We
perpetuate these kitten qualities through ongoing care and play with them.
The kitten matures physically, but mentally retains kitten-like behavior.
Cats that retain kitten-like behavior adjust to and probably prefer group
living.

One reason cats moved in with man is that it gave the cat even greater
scope for social relationships - both with humans and with other cats.

Over the last 10 or so thousand years the cat has trained us very
well, real cat lovers allow their cats to be cats while providing them
with shelter and good food. I hope our partnership with cats lasts
another 10,000 years.

--
Bob.

Cats know what we feel. They don't always care, but they know.

In article ,
enlightened us with...

Cats are not domesticated.



Domestication
Definition:

1. [n] accommodation to domestic life; "her explorer husband
resisted all her attempts at domestication"
2. [n] the attribute of having been domesticated
3. [n] adaptation to intimate association with human beings


Synonyms: tameness

Antonyms: wildness

See Also: accommodation, adaptation, adjustment,
flexibility, tractability, tractableness

---
http://www.lam.mus.ca.us/cats/P24/
n the beginning, cats were probably tolerated by humans because they
killed the mice and rats that ate their food stores. Full domestication
of the cat as a household companion likely occurred in Egypt about 4,000
years ago. To overcome the natural fear that wild cats had of humans,
they were most likely captured as kittens and hand-reared.

---
http://wildlife.wisc.edu/extension/catfly3.htm
Domestic cats originated from an ancestral wild species, Felis
silvestris, the European and African Wild Cat. The domestic cat is now
considered a separate species, named Felis catus. In appearance,
domestic cats are similar to their wild relatives, and many of their
behaviors, such as hunting and other activity patterns, remain
essentially unchanged from their ancestral form. Cats were first
domesticated in Egypt around 2000 BC [1]. Domestic cats spread slowly to
other parts of the globe, possibly because Egyptians prevented export of
the animal they worshiped as a goddess. However, by 500 BC the Greeks
had acquired domestic cats, and they spread cats throughout their sphere
of influence. The Romans introduced the domestic cat to Britain by 300
AD. Domestic cats have now been introduced around the world, mostly by
colonists from Europe.

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu
thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

In article ,
enlightened us with...

Cats are not domesticated.



Domestication
Definition:

1. [n] accommodation to domestic life; "her explorer husband
resisted all her attempts at domestication"
2. [n] the attribute of having been domesticated
3. [n] adaptation to intimate association with human beings


Synonyms: tameness

Antonyms: wildness

See Also: accommodation, adaptation, adjustment,
flexibility, tractability, tractableness

---
http://www.lam.mus.ca.us/cats/P24/
n the beginning, cats were probably tolerated by humans because they
killed the mice and rats that ate their food stores. Full domestication
of the cat as a household companion likely occurred in Egypt about 4,000
years ago. To overcome the natural fear that wild cats had of humans,
they were most likely captured as kittens and hand-reared.

---
http://wildlife.wisc.edu/extension/catfly3.htm
Domestic cats originated from an ancestral wild species, Felis
silvestris, the European and African Wild Cat. The domestic cat is now
considered a separate species, named Felis catus. In appearance,
domestic cats are similar to their wild relatives, and many of their
behaviors, such as hunting and other activity patterns, remain
essentially unchanged from their ancestral form. Cats were first
domesticated in Egypt around 2000 BC [1]. Domestic cats spread slowly to
other parts of the globe, possibly because Egyptians prevented export of
the animal they worshiped as a goddess. However, by 500 BC the Greeks
had acquired domestic cats, and they spread cats throughout their sphere
of influence. The Romans introduced the domestic cat to Britain by 300
AD. Domestic cats have now been introduced around the world, mostly by
colonists from Europe.

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu
thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

Bob,



I respectfully disagree with you. "Domestic" cats tend to be solitary.
They do not form large groups with complex social structures as do dogs.
Cats are also very territorial by nature, some more so than others. However
because their social organizations are somewhat flexible, some cats are
relatively tolerant of sharing their house and territory with multiple cats
socially. It is not uncommon for a cat to tolerate certain other family
cats, but not get along with others in the house. In general, the more cats
you have, the more likely it is that some of your cats will begin fighting
with each other. I tend to presuppose that if the cat has been solitary the
majority of its life, and another cat is introduced there is a fifty, fifty
chance of the solitary cat accepting the new cat. The topic we are disputing
has been argued centuries, and will continue to be argued for many more.



Regarding, the domestication of the common cat; technically speaking, cats
still are in the early stages of becoming a domestic animal, but the cats of
today are very much domesticated. What we do know is that the common cat
hasn't changed genetically much from the Egyptian times, although smaller in
size and stature. Needless to say, I think you are misunderstanding the
definition of domestication. It means to train or adapt (an animal or plant)
to live in a human environment and be of use to humans, or to introduce and
accustom (an animal or plant) into another region; naturalize. So, by
definition the common house cat is domesticated. We as a class of humans
continued to domesticate cats, just as the Egyptians did, and for the same
reasons. Unfortunately, today the vast majority of cats are more for
novelty, and not for utility, not that there is necessarily anything wrong
with that. As you and I both already know, cats make great pets. The role of
the common cat has changed, unless you have a rodent problem or you live on
a farm.



Furthermore, regarding your opinion of "One reason cats moved in with man is
that it gave the cat even greater scope for social relationships - both with
humans and with other cats" that may be true, but again I respectfully
disagree. As early as 3500 B.C., Egyptians were domesticating wildcats from
Africa. These domesticated wildcats became treasured pets, and were honored
in many forms of artwork for their skill in hunting and killing rodents,
such as snakes, rats and mice. Cats first came to Europe and the Middle East
about 1000 B.C., most likely from Greek and Phoenician traders. The ancient
Greeks and Romans also highly valued cats for their ability to control
undesirable rodents. Europeans once more began to realize the important role
cats played in controlling rodents, and cats gradually regained their
popularity. Traders, explorers and colonists brought domestic cats with them
to the New World during the 1600's and 1700's, and settlers continued to
take their cats with them as they moved towards the West. Most all the cats
of today in North America are descendants of these cats. Moreover, cats didn
't move in with man, we moved them in with us for utility. The rest is
history.

Bob,



I respectfully disagree with you. "Domestic" cats tend to be solitary.
They do not form large groups with complex social structures as do dogs.
Cats are also very territorial by nature, some more so than others. However
because their social organizations are somewhat flexible, some cats are
relatively tolerant of sharing their house and territory with multiple cats
socially. It is not uncommon for a cat to tolerate certain other family
cats, but not get along with others in the house. In general, the more cats
you have, the more likely it is that some of your cats will begin fighting
with each other. I tend to presuppose that if the cat has been solitary the
majority of its life, and another cat is introduced there is a fifty, fifty
chance of the solitary cat accepting the new cat. The topic we are disputing
has been argued centuries, and will continue to be argued for many more.



Regarding, the domestication of the common cat; technically speaking, cats
still are in the early stages of becoming a domestic animal, but the cats of
today are very much domesticated. What we do know is that the common cat
hasn't changed genetically much from the Egyptian times, although smaller in
size and stature. Needless to say, I think you are misunderstanding the
definition of domestication. It means to train or adapt (an animal or plant)
to live in a human environment and be of use to humans, or to introduce and
accustom (an animal or plant) into another region; naturalize. So, by
definition the common house cat is domesticated. We as a class of humans
continued to domesticate cats, just as the Egyptians did, and for the same
reasons. Unfortunately, today the vast majority of cats are more for
novelty, and not for utility, not that there is necessarily anything wrong
with that. As you and I both already know, cats make great pets. The role of
the common cat has changed, unless you have a rodent problem or you live on
a farm.



Furthermore, regarding your opinion of "One reason cats moved in with man is
that it gave the cat even greater scope for social relationships - both with
humans and with other cats" that may be true, but again I respectfully
disagree. As early as 3500 B.C., Egyptians were domesticating wildcats from
Africa. These domesticated wildcats became treasured pets, and were honored
in many forms of artwork for their skill in hunting and killing rodents,
such as snakes, rats and mice. Cats first came to Europe and the Middle East
about 1000 B.C., most likely from Greek and Phoenician traders. The ancient
Greeks and Romans also highly valued cats for their ability to control
undesirable rodents. Europeans once more began to realize the important role
cats played in controlling rodents, and cats gradually regained their
popularity. Traders, explorers and colonists brought domestic cats with them
to the New World during the 1600's and 1700's, and settlers continued to
take their cats with them as they moved towards the West. Most all the cats
of today in North America are descendants of these cats. Moreover, cats didn
't move in with man, we moved them in with us for utility. The rest is
history.

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:17:54 GMT, "Iso" wrote:

Bob,



I respectfully disagree with you. "Domestic" cats tend to be solitary.

Cats the world over prove you wrong.

They do not form large groups with complex social structures as do dogs.

They form groups with far more complex structures than dogs.

Cats are also very territorial by nature, some more so than others.

Very true, and they will defend their territory very well from
outsiders unless the outsider makes the right approach.

However
because their social organizations are somewhat flexible, some cats are
relatively tolerant of sharing their house and territory with multiple cats
socially.

Sharing their territory with other cats is part of their nature,
though of course those humans cruel enough to attempt to restrict
their cats territory will cause the cat some serious problems.

It is not uncommon for a cat to tolerate certain other family
cats, but not get along with others in the house. In general, the more cats
you have, the more likely it is that some of your cats will begin fighting
with each other.

Each cat has to learn its place in the local cat society, and cat
society being so complex this can take time and may involve fights.

I tend to presuppose that if the cat has been solitary the
majority of its life, and another cat is introduced there is a fifty, fifty
chance of the solitary cat accepting the new cat. The topic we are disputing
has been argued centuries, and will continue to be argued for many more.

Only people who do not understand cats would argue, the rest of us
just accept their ways.



Regarding, the domestication of the common cat; technically speaking, cats
still are in the early stages of becoming a domestic animal, but the cats of
today are very much domesticated.

No it isn't. It is a wild animal that, for many reasons, finds it
useful to live with man.

What we do know is that the common cat
hasn't changed genetically much from the Egyptian times, although smaller in
size and stature. Needless to say, I think you are misunderstanding the
definition of domestication. It means to train or adapt (an animal or plant)
to live in a human environment

Something we have not done with the cat.

Maybe we could say that the cat has domesticated humans, it would in
reality be a far more truthful statement.

and be of use to humans, or to introduce and
accustom (an animal or plant) into another region; naturalize. So, by
definition the common house cat is domesticated. We as a class of humans
continued to domesticate cats, just as the Egyptians did, and for the same
reasons. Unfortunately, today the vast majority of cats are more for
novelty, and not for utility, not that there is necessarily anything wrong
with that. As you and I both already know, cats make great pets. The role of
the common cat has changed, unless you have a rodent problem or you live on
a farm.



Furthermore, regarding your opinion of "One reason cats moved in with man is
that it gave the cat even greater scope for social relationships - both with
humans and with other cats" that may be true, but again I respectfully
disagree. As early as 3500 B.C., Egyptians were domesticating wildcats from
Africa.

Try adding at least another 4,000 years to that.

These domesticated wildcats became treasured pets, and were honored
in many forms of artwork for their skill in hunting and killing rodents,
such as snakes, rats and mice.

The reality is slightly different. Humans started to store food, maybe
as early as 10,000 BC. This attracted rats and mice and they in turn
attracted the cats. Cats soon learned that humans were not a major
danger to them and that they could live very close to, or even inside,
human communities.

A really close relationship did probable start with humans hand
rearing some kittens, but the cats soon got the hang of the fact that
humans would often feed them and allow them shelter.

Certainly by around 6,000 BC cats could be found in the Middle East
almost anywhere humans were, in fact there has been evidence put
forward that cats were more populous than dogs.


Cats first came to Europe and the Middle East
about 1000 B.C., most likely from Greek and Phoenician traders. The ancient
Greeks and Romans also highly valued cats for their ability to control
undesirable rodents. Europeans once more began to realize the important role
cats played in controlling rodents, and cats gradually regained their
popularity. Traders, explorers and colonists brought domestic cats with them
to the New World during the 1600's and 1700's, and settlers continued to
take their cats with them as they moved towards the West. Most all the cats
of today in North America are descendants of these cats. Moreover, cats didn
't move in with man, we moved them in with us for utility. The rest is
history.

As you say - it is all history. However, you do need to study the
history. A lot of what you say was held to be true even ten years ago,
but the studies that have pushed back the dating of Egyptian
civilization by several thousand years have also helped to shed light
on how cats became our best allies.

--
Bob.

In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, "Let there be
Light." And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better.